GUESS WHAT - we are YOUNG - PART 2

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Re: GUESS WHAT - we are YOUNG - PART 2

Unread post by ASUMountaineer » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:40 pm

The Rock wrote:
AppSt94 wrote:
The Rock wrote:
WVAPPeer wrote:
The Rock wrote:Sorry to de-rail your last thread with statistics and thoughtful observations. Glad you could start another hypothetical riddle of a thread.
I don't mean that as pointed as I'm sure it comes across, but again I feel strongly that youth isn't our only problem.i see too many questionable calls, and ideals from the coaching staff to blame the age of the players.
I do support Satterfield, the team and the university, and hope I will be eating crow this time next year, but with no previous head coaching experience or proven track record for building up a team and based on his performance so far, I don't feel convinced Satterfields long term plan (whatever that is) is going to succeed.
Answer the question or start your own bitch thread ---
I'm not bitching. I tried to have an objective discussion with statistics, but instead you started an alternate thread asking an illogical question to try to prove your point when there is no right answer. Young teams can win. Veteran teams can lose.
I have a question for you:
We graduated how many seniors last year? We had significantly more experience last year, and yet lost more games than the year before when we were less experienced. Why is that?
I don't know either. Bottom line is we are all speculating as the reason. Only time will tell but I don't think we say undoubtedly the only reason we aren't winning is because our players are sophomores instead of juniors.
I can answer that for you. There were times last year were we were playing defense with 7 Freshmen on the field. We were also still playing with 4-3 guys playing out of position in a 3-4. Now playing so many Freshmen against FCS competition does not necessarily translate to better Sophomores playing FBS talent weekly.
Perhaps. I'm sure we put our best 11 on the field, just hard to believe as many seniors were on the team last year, had half as many wins (with more scholarships) as the year before playing the same teams.
If playing an entire year at FCS level doesn't prepare you for being competitive at FBS level is that a coaching issue? Shouldn't the FCS at least give you enough experience to learn fundamentals such as tackling? I saw quite a few missed tackles last weekend, which happened to not be against an FBS team. If we are improving week to week, year to year, How could our defense allow an FCS team to score 50+ on us after a year of these sophomores playing 5 FBS teams? (Georgia, Michigan, southern miss, ga southern, south Alabama)
Obviously experience will help, but I still think our defense and offensive coaching isn't setting them up for success. I think there is poor game planning and scheming before the games and poor play calling and adjustments during the game, and talent and experience cannot overcome a lack of preparation and coaching.
You can't just look at wins and losses. When we went 8-4 in JM's last year, we had a healthy JLJ. Last year, JLJ was not healthy. I really like Kam Bryant, but I would bet most of us would take a healthy JLJ over a healthy Kam Bryant. Last year, we had a lot of things working against us, including a new HC getting OTJ training while trying to coach a team that probably had a lot of loyalty to the former HC. Looking back on last year, it was bound to be a train wreck.

Now, this year...I've got no definintive answer. Yes, we're very young, and so is our coaching staff. We went 4-8 last year with an FCS schedule and are 1-5 this year with an FBS schedule. I'm not seeing the improvement that I had hope for, and losing to LU is acceptable, but I wouldn't consider being 1-5 out-of-this-world shocking.
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Re: GUESS WHAT - we are YOUNG - PART 2

Unread post by appstfan » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:45 pm

Guess What-- Troy is young -- over 20 of their two deep are freshman or Sophs.

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Re: GUESS WHAT - we are YOUNG - PART 2

Unread post by bigdaddyg » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:52 pm

Based on that stat about Troy's 2-deep this game should be a real measuring stick for our program. Playing basically a mirror image of the team that we currently are fielding- same record, young players in the 2-deep. If we go down there and get handled I will be at a loss for words. A loss to a bad Troy team might just doom us to 1-11. Unless the coaches are masters of motivating I can just see the wind coming completely out of some sails.

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Re: GUESS WHAT - we are YOUNG - PART 2

Unread post by appbanker » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:16 pm

A couple of good points that have been brought up in several different threads that I think we need to keep mind besides that fact that our players are young

1) WV mentioned in the Woody thread, that he has only had 1 recruiting class to start building his 3-4 defense. As with any change it will take time to get the right people in place. When APP switched to the spread, it did not go well the first year or so. We had to get the players that were better suited for that system. Look what happened to GS when they tried to switch from the triple option and then back, they had 4 or 5 bad years.

2)ASUMountaineer mentions above that our coaching staff is young. Although SS has many years of coaching experience, this is only his second as a head coach and there is a learning curve to the move up. Also, this is only the second year the coaches have worked together. They are having to meld their coaching styles and experiences, plus learn to trust each other. I think we have a good group and hope we can keep them together for a while. Keep in mind that when we were winning the Championships and beating Michigan, the core of the coaching staff had been together for a long time. After 2007, coaches started leaving for various reasons and we started to see a decline in our program.

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Re: GUESS WHAT - we are YOUNG - PART 2

Unread post by The Rock » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:35 pm

WVAPPeer wrote:
t4pizza wrote:
WVAPPeer wrote:Thought I would start a "new" thread so that others don't have to go through all the posts to get to my question --- Here it is ---

Can anyone tell me the names of those APP players who were better players as freshmen and sophomores than they were as juniors and seniors? --- :? :? :?
Sadly we have had a bad trend of our qb's performing worse in following years and ultimately being replaced by a back up (DP, JJ, KB, ...TL?). Many of those were seemingly due to the player having a difficult time mentally after being injured, but its still a disturbing trend nonetheless and one that continues in this season. AE is the last qb we had to start the entire season (when healthy) for two consecutive season. This despite the fact that every other one had enough eligibility. This trend precedes SS so I am not blaming him at all, I just pointing out something that I have observed on this team but never to this level with other successful teams.
True - but even Armanti missed starts in all 4 years ---
Armanti missed starts due to injury, but he was never looking over his shoulder worrying about losing his starting job because of it. There is a big difference between being replaced for injury and being replaced because you are deemed as not getting the job done.

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Re: GUESS WHAT - we are YOUNG - PART 2

Unread post by WVAPPeer » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:48 pm

Who has been replaced because being "ineffective" other than Kam? - Deandre his soph year and then he came back and finished 2nd or 3rd for the Walter Payton the next year - his senior year he was battling injury --- Trey was replaced by Armanti because his off-season shoulder surgery did not heal properly and Armanti missed starts because of injury --- Jamal because of injury ---
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Re: GUESS WHAT - we are YOUNG - PART 2

Unread post by t4pizza » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:49 pm

Yes, he missed starts for injuries. The others have been supplanted on a seemingly regular basis. Its an odd occurrence to me. That's all

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Re: GUESS WHAT - we are YOUNG - PART 2

Unread post by WVAPPeer » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:30 pm

t4pizza wrote:Yes, he missed starts for injuries. The others have been supplanted on a seemingly regular basis. Its an odd occurrence to me. That's all
True - spread QBs take a beating ---
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Re: GUESS WHAT - we are YOUNG - PART 2

Unread post by The Rock » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:44 pm

Deandre was benched because his production had dropped off and everyone was calling to the switch to jj. Even before his concussion, there was discussion about if jj should take over.
Jj had a knee injury at the end of that season and surgery in the off season. I'm sure he wasn't 100% back from his surgery, but I'm sure, just like deandre, he heard the footsteps.
Mental issues are mental issues whether it is due to a previous injury or other problem.
I'm not attacking or blaming anyone, it's just a fact we have had a carousel at qb since ae left

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Re: GUESS WHAT - we are YOUNG - PART 2

Unread post by WVAPPeer » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:12 pm

The Rock wrote:Deandre was benched because his production had dropped off and everyone was calling to the switch to jj. Even before his concussion, there was discussion about if jj should take over.
Jj had a knee injury at the end of that season and surgery in the off season. I'm sure he wasn't 100% back from his surgery, but I'm sure, just like deandre, he heard the footsteps.
Mental issues are mental issues whether it is due to a previous injury or other problem.
I'm not attacking or blaming anyone, it's just a fact we have had a carousel at qb since ae left
Deandre was 2nd in voting for the Walter Payton - You think he forgot how to play QB? - he heard footsteps? - Really? - that is really demeaning to these young men - the more you type the worse it gets ---
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Re: GUESS WHAT - we are YOUNG - PART 2

Unread post by SpeedkingATL » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:41 pm

Just beat Troy!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: GUESS WHAT - we are YOUNG - PART 2

Unread post by AtlAppMan » Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:58 pm

If we beat Troy will some of you shut up on firings?

We all went into a multi-year transition from FCS to FBS while already in the hole by FCS standards. You bring a coach in and tell him to take us to the other side knowing it will be a long swim across the lake. Now, not even halfway across people start complaining and wanting to change direction. Let me tell you a secret, it isn't any shorter to the shore in any other direction than our current path, maybe longer. Starting from beginning of 2013 it was clear that it would probably get worse before it got better. Well that is where we are now. However, we will get better based on the recruiting classes we have seen in last two years (only one for Woody). We still need some more horses to get the job done and, hopefully, we will get those in upcoming recruiting classes. And also, young coaches will make some mistakes along the way but they will also learn.

Clearly for many of the defensive players it has not "clicked" yet. Once it does then we will see huge improvements.

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Re: GUESS WHAT - we are YOUNG - PART 2

Unread post by The Rock » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:00 pm

WVAPPeer wrote:
The Rock wrote:Deandre was benched because his production had dropped off and everyone was calling to the switch to jj. Even before his concussion, there was discussion about if jj should take over.
Jj had a knee injury at the end of that season and surgery in the off season. I'm sure he wasn't 100% back from his surgery, but I'm sure, just like deandre, he heard the footsteps.
Mental issues are mental issues whether it is due to a previous injury or other problem.
I'm not attacking or blaming anyone, it's just a fact we have had a carousel at qb since ae left
Deandre was 2nd in voting for the Walter Payton - You think he forgot how to play QB? - he heard footsteps? - Really? - that is really demeaning to these young men - the more you type the worse it gets ---
Not sure how you can't figure this out, or what you're confused about. He was a payton finalist in 2010, and in 2011 was replaced by jj after a few less than stellar games. What is demeaning about that?

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Re: GUESS WHAT - we are YOUNG - PART 2

Unread post by WVAPPeer » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:11 pm

Injuries --- what don't you get???
Deandre and Jamel both were hurt their senior years - and you think it was because they "HEARD FOOTSTEPS" --- Wow :!: :!: :!:

By the way --- WELCOME BACK, GLASS ONION :o
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Re: GUESS WHAT - we are YOUNG - PART 2

Unread post by The Rock » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:20 pm

Deandre had a concussion and was cleared to play. Jamal was not injured his senior year, he was injured in his junior year and had surgery In the off season.
Not sure what we are arguing about. All anyone said is we haven't had an undisputed qb since armanti left, and armanti only missed games due to injuries.
How embarrassed I am to state facts. Pleas accept my apologies.

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Re: GUESS WHAT - we are YOUNG - PART 2

Unread post by WVAPPeer » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:37 pm

The Rock wrote:Deandre had a concussion and was cleared to play. Jamal was not injured his senior year, he was injured in his junior year and had surgery In the off season.
Not sure what we are arguing about. All anyone said is we haven't had an undisputed qb since armanti left, and armanti only missed games due to injuries.
How embarrassed I am to state facts. Pleas accept my apologies.
"HEARING FOOTSTEPS" :?: :?: :?:
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Re: GUESS WHAT - we are YOUNG - PART 2

Unread post by WVAPPeer » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:41 pm

The Rock wrote:Deandre had a concussion and was cleared to play. Jamal was not injured his senior year, he was injured in his junior year and had surgery In the off season.
Not sure what we are arguing about. All anyone said is we haven't had an undisputed qb since armanti left, and armanti only missed games due to injuries.
How embarrassed I am to state facts. Pleas accept my apologies.
And here is my original answer so you can read again ---
"Who has been replaced because being "ineffective" other than Kam? - Deandre his soph year and then he came back and finished 2nd or 3rd for the Walter Payton the next year - his senior year he was battling injury --- Trey was replaced by Armanti because his off-season shoulder surgery did not heal properly and Armanti missed starts because of injury --- Jamal because of injury ---"
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Re: GUESS WHAT - we are YOUNG - PART 2

Unread post by The Rock » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:46 pm

So you think neither deandre or Jamal knew their job was on the line based on their performance? Or heard rumblings or saw writing on the wall that they would be replaced?

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Re: GUESS WHAT - we are YOUNG - PART 2

Unread post by The Rock » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:50 pm

So to answer your question:
deandre Presley in 2011
Jamal Jackson 2012
Deandre wasn't hurt, if you remember he moved to cornerback, kick returner and punt returner where he forced a fumble on his first defensive play vs ga southern.

Any other question?

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Re: GUESS WHAT - we are YOUNG - PART 2

Unread post by WVAPPeer » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:58 pm

The Rock wrote:So to answer your question:
deandre Presley in 2011
Jamal Jackson 2012
Deandre wasn't hurt, if you remember he moved to cornerback, kick returner and punt returner where he forced a fumble on his first defensive play vs ga southern.

Any other question?
Sure - check with those who actually know and you'll find out Deandre had a problem with his throwing shoulder in his senior season ---
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