The Real 2014 App State

[EastHallApp]

The only way to mitigate that is to do what Georgia Southern did and get a successful head coach with experience. Its one thing to be an Ed McMhan, but quite another to be a Johnny Carson.
Why would we entrust a program that was the envy of FCS and many FBS programs to rookie coaches? It makes no sense to me, but obviously it did to CC and many on this board.

Oklahoma hired a rookie coach in Bob Stoops.

Florida State hired a rookie coach in Jimbo Fisher.

Oregon hired a rookie coach in Chip Kelly, then another one in Mark Helfrich.

Boise State hired a rookie coach in Chris Petersen.

Louisville hired a rookie coach in Charlie Strong.

Clemson hired a rookie coach in Dabo Swinney.

Mississippi State hired a rookie coach in Dan Mullen.

Wisconsin hired a rookie coach in Bret Bielema.

Oklahoma State hired a rookie coach in Mike Gundy.

TCU hired a rookie coach in Gary Patterson.

No matter what route you choose, people praise it if it works and second-guess it if it doesn't, or if they think it won't. If we had gone the route Georgia Southern did and hired an FCS coach, people would be asking why we didn't hire someone with FBS experience.

Those are all good examples of successful rookie coaches, of course I think all had significant coaching experience at big time FBS programs, but your point is clear. I wonder, how many of those guys went 5-12 through their first 1 1/2 seasons? And even more important, how many of their teams lacked improvement from week to week? My guess is none to the first question and I know its none to the second question. It isn't SS's lack of experience that is the problem, it's his lack of preparing the team to play thus far. I really hope he learns quickly and turns it around because right now the product on the field is not a quality product and that is SS job and his alone.

Whether SS is successful at App remains to be seen. Just pointing out that the approach of hiring a first-time HC is nothing unusual or ill-advised.

And yes, those coaches had experience at big-time FBS programs. App is not a big-time FBS program. SS had lots of experience at App, and 4 years' experience as a successful G5 OC.

[AppSt94]

You bring up a great point EHA. SS was a successful OC and there is no reason why he can't be successful offensively here and his and our Alma Mater. The difference to this point is that he was running his offenses with a full complement of FBS talent.

Not meant for you but a general comment. Give him time and don't judge him weekly by the scoreboard.

[QueencityApp]

APPARJ wrote:
"But you're right. We had more talent than Villanova and got curb stomped by way of coaching and execution at The Rock."

Don't know if you were referring to my comments or not --- But, no, you have my thoughts backwards - Villanova had more talent that us, they were the better team --- Maine did not, they came to play and beat us that day ---

Boy I just remember Villanova's #4 RB Matt Szczur chewing our defense up that day. Running and catching all damn day and we couldn't stop him. Heavy sigh...one of the many nightmares from the not so distant past

[WVAPPeer]

APPARJ wrote:
"But you're right. We had more talent than Villanova and got curb stomped by way of coaching and execution at The Rock."

Don't know if you were referring to my comments or not --- But, no, you have my thoughts backwards - Villanova had more talent that us, they were the better team --- Maine did not, they came to play and beat us that day ---

Boy I just remember Villanova's #4 RB Matt Szczur chewing our defense up that day. Running and catching all damn day and we couldn't stop him. Heavy sigh...one of the many nightmares from the not so distant past

Yep - that is who I was referring to - probably the best do everything player I ever saw --- see info below ---
"Szczur signed a contract with the Chicago Cubs organization, which drafted him in the fifth-round of the 2010 Major League Baseball Draft.[3] He received a $100,000 signing bonus, with an additional $500,000 if he declined to attend the NFL combine and made a written commitment to baseball before February 10, 2011.

After the 2010 season, Szczur committed to baseball and signed a $1.5 million deal with the Cubs in January 2011.[4] As he was released from his initial contract and signed a new contract to receive the bonus, he would have been eligible in the 2011 Rule 5 draft if not added to the Cubs' 40 man roster.[5]

On August 16, 2014, Szczur was called up to the Cubs. He made his debut with the Cubs the next day.[8][9]

[Black Saturday]

The only way to mitigate that is to do what Georgia Southern did and get a successful head coach with experience. Its one thing to be an Ed McMhan, but quite another to be a Johnny Carson.
Why would we entrust a program that was the envy of FCS and many FBS programs to rookie coaches? It makes no sense to me, but obviously it did to CC and many on this board.

Oklahoma hired a rookie coach in Bob Stoops.

Florida State hired a rookie coach in Jimbo Fisher.

Oregon hired a rookie coach in Chip Kelly, then another one in Mark Helfrich.

Boise State hired a rookie coach in Chris Petersen.

Louisville hired a rookie coach in Charlie Strong.

Clemson hired a rookie coach in Dabo Swinney.

Mississippi State hired a rookie coach in Dan Mullen.

Wisconsin hired a rookie coach in Bret Bielema.

Oklahoma State hired a rookie coach in Mike Gundy.

TCU hired a rookie coach in Gary Patterson.

No matter what route you choose, people praise it if it works and second-guess it if it doesn't, or if they think it won't. If we had gone the route Georgia Southern did and hired an FCS coach, people would be asking why we didn't hire someone with FBS experience.

Those are all good examples of successful rookie coaches, of course I think all had significant coaching experience at big time FBS programs, but your point is clear. I wonder, how many of those guys went 5-12 through their first 1 1/2 seasons? And even more important, how many of their teams lacked improvement from week to week? My guess is none to the first question and I know its none to the second question. It isn't SS's lack of experience that is the problem, it's his lack of preparing the team to play thus far. I really hope he learns quickly and turns it around because right now the product on the field is not a quality product and that is SS job and his alone.

Coach Moore had a nice compliment of football assistants and S&C around that helped recruit and bring in and develop the string of AAs prior and during our run, some of those assistant have become stars in the power conferences. Then that staff was cherry picked and replaced with rotten apples. I think SS needs some stronger support if he's our coach for the future if we plan on having a winning program. The buck stops with SS, just like JM.

[NewApp]

The only way to mitigate that is to do what Georgia Southern did and get a successful head coach with experience. Its one thing to be an Ed McMhan, but quite another to be a Johnny Carson.
Why would we entrust a program that was the envy of FCS and many FBS programs to rookie coaches? It makes no sense to me, but obviously it did to CC and many on this board.

Oklahoma hired a rookie coach in Bob Stoops.

Florida State hired a rookie coach in Jimbo Fisher.

Oregon hired a rookie coach in Chip Kelly, then another one in Mark Helfrich.

Boise State hired a rookie coach in Chris Petersen.

Louisville hired a rookie coach in Charlie Strong.

Clemson hired a rookie coach in Dabo Swinney.

Mississippi State hired a rookie coach in Dan Mullen.

Wisconsin hired a rookie coach in Bret Bielema.

Oklahoma State hired a rookie coach in Mike Gundy.

TCU hired a rookie coach in Gary Patterson.

No matter what route you choose, people praise it if it works and second-guess it if it doesn't, or if they think it won't. If we had gone the route Georgia Southern did and hired an FCS coach, people would be asking why we didn't hire someone with FBS experience.

Those are all good examples of successful rookie coaches, of course I think all had significant coaching experience at big time FBS programs, but your point is clear. I wonder, how many of those guys went 5-12 through their first 1 1/2 seasons? And even more important, how many of their teams lacked improvement from week to week? My guess is none to the first question and I know its none to the second question. It isn't SS's lack of experience that is the problem, it's his lack of preparing the team to play thus far. I really hope he learns quickly and turns it around because right now the product on the field is not a quality product and that is SS job and his alone.

Coach Moore had a nice compliment of football assistants and S&C around that helped recruit and bring in and develop the string of AAs prior and during our run, some of those assistant have become stars in the power conferences. Then that staff was cherry picked and replaced with rotten apples. I think SS needs some stronger support if he's our coach for the future if we plan on having a winning program. The buck stops with SS, just like JM.

Can't believe I'm giving you an RP.

[Black Saturday]

What's the matter JC? You don't like me telling the truth every week?

[Apptiger]

Sorry Black Saturday for the use of the V word ---

It's the R word.


Reality




Where were you and I on Saturday?

I am still wretching from the mere mention of that name. Also grateful that Scott is not him. I don't think we are at a point where we can sustain another long down period like that one. We need to win to continue to have big draws.

As great as Boone is, it is not convenient to attend for a lot of folks. People won't go to the trouble to go to every game unless we are winning or at least competitive. It will become less of a priority and others things will suddenly seem more important. Those rotating 5-10K that attend a few games a year in may come back at homecoming but that may be about it. We'll get 12-15k most games and 21-24k at homecoming like the (really) old days.

I hope you are wrong about the 10-15K, Apptiger.

Me too!

[Rekdiver]

If we start having more 6:00 games attendance will suffer quicker than a mediocre team. Quite a few want a day trip without spending the money for a overnight stay.

[Saint3333]

If we start having more 6:00 games attendance will suffer quicker than a mediocre team. Quite a few want a day trip without spending the money for a overnight stay.

We'll know the answer to that this weekend.

[Budman2154]

FIU with SS did have winning seasons 7-6 2010 (won Little Caesars Bowl) and 8-5 2011 (lost to Marshall in Beef O'Brady Bowl) but his Offense only averaged 380 yards per game. I saw the loss to MArshall in the Beef O'Brady Bowl and FIU's offense looked eerily similar to this years App State team, Anemic. He inherited an App State team that was coming off an 8 year low average of 390 yards per game. So yes he was successful from a standpoint they had a winning season, which I think we all would take 7-6 right now, but his overall record there was 15-11. Not what most of us have come to accept at App State. I really hope he turns things around, but I am afraid that with the coming of a new AD preceded by our new Chancellor, he needs to make a splash very soon.

[JTApps1]

FIU with SS did have winning seasons 7-6 2010 (won Little Caesars Bowl) and 8-5 2011 (lost to Marshall in Beef O'Brady Bowl) but his Offense only averaged 380 yards per game. I saw the loss to MArshall in the Beef O'Brady Bowl and FIU's offense looked eerily similar to this years App State team, Anemic. He inherited an App State team that was coming off an 8 year low average of 390 yards per game. So yes he was successful from a standpoint they had a winning season, which I think we all would take 7-6 right now, but his overall record there was 15-11. Not what most of us have come to accept at App State. I really hope he turns things around, but I am afraid that with the coming of a new AD preceded by our new Chancellor, he needs to make a splash very soon.

It's true that FIU wasn't a great team with Satterfield, but they were by far the best they have ever been. They were 9-39 from 2006-2009 and have gone 7-23 from 2012 to now. That comes out to 16-62. Their best season without him was 2008 when they went 5-7.

[Budman2154]

Those are all facts. All I am saying is CC didn't reach very far from the tree during his so called National Search. Although we all would take 8-5 and 7-6 today its not what is going to bring the record crowds back to Kidd Brewer. I for one will be there regardless but I am one.

[Saint3333]

Those are all facts. All I am saying is CC didn't reach very far from the tree during his so called National Search. Although we all would take 8-5 and 7-6 today its not what is going to bring the record crowds back to Kidd Brewer. I for one will be there regardless but I am one.

He reached out to two highly respected SEC assistant coaches among others.

[moonshine]

While SS was not a world beater in his tenure off the mountain, he did help to improve the results of each program where he coordinated the offense. I believe most all of us were a proponent of SS becoming the head coach for App based on what we all saw him do with this offense during "the run". Now I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time) but personally I feel like he'd be a lifer here at App (assuming he's successful) and not jump at the first big pay day.

I hope he proves me wrong but I think SS should have waited to be the second head coach after Moore. It's very tough to follow a legend, especially one that coached you. They are a legend for a reason which creates expectations that may be difficult to live up to. Needless to say, this is a moot point now as SS has accepted this challenge head on.

[NewApp]

While SS was not a world beater in his tenure off the mountain, he did help to improve the results of each program where he coordinated the offense. I believe most all of us were a proponent of SS becoming the head coach for App based on what we all saw him do with this offense during "the run". Now I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time) but personally I feel like he'd be a lifer here at App (assuming he's successful) and not jump at the first big pay day.

I hope he proves me wrong but I think SS should have waited to be the second head coach after Moore. It's very tough to follow a legend, especially one that coached you. They are a legend for a reason which creates expectations that may be difficult to live up to. Needless to say, this is a moot point now as SS has accepted this challenge head on.

I don't claim to be an authority on A.D. Cobb's hiring strategy, but some posters on this MMB said more than once that he had told Coach Satterfield that he couldn't become ASU's head football coach without having experience in a program outside of his alma mater's.

As to being a lifer at ASU, I haven't seen anything that would proclaim that he would stay here for the duration of his career. We have had several personnel in various sports who were deemed as bleeding black and gold who left for greener pastures. Just saying that there is absolutely no way of knowing what the future of any coach holds. If he's anywhere near as successful on the FBS level as Coach Moore was in FCS, he will possibly be offered far more in salary than we would likely be able/willing to pay. Sometimes the economic needs and desires of family trumps loyalty.

[EastHallApp]

From his official bio:

"In his only season at Toledo, the Rockets ranked 20th nationally in passing (278.5 yards per game) and 14th in total offense (438.3 ypg), averages that were 89 and 104 yards better than the season prior to his arrival. ... After going 3-9 and averaging 321 yards of offense the year prior to his arrival, FIU won 15 games and averaged 380 yards in Satterfield’s two seasons as offensive coordinator."

Posting the numbers in a vacuum and saying "that's not what we'd want at App State" is useless. Both those offenses improved dramatically while he was there. FIU was one of the worst FBS programs in the nation, and he was part of the staff that quickly made them respectable.

[moonshine]

I don't claim to be an authority on A.D. Cobb's hiring strategy, but some posters on this MMB said more than once that he had told Coach Satterfield that he couldn't become ASU's head football coach without having experience in a program outside of his alma mater's.

As to being a lifer at ASU, I haven't seen anything that would proclaim that he would stay here for the duration of his career. We have had several personnel in various sports who were deemed as bleeding black and gold who left for greener pastures. Just saying that there is absolutely no way of knowing what the future of any coach holds. If he's anywhere near as successful on the FBS level as Coach Moore was in FCS, he will possibly be offered far more in salary than we would likely be able/willing to pay. Sometimes the economic needs and desires of family trumps loyalty.

Yea I too heard that CC told him to leave the mountain to gain experience. Not sure what that has to do with what I said.

Of course none of us know what the future holds, especially as it relates to being a college football coach. This is why I prefaced my statement with "Now I could be wrong but personally I feel". I can imagine it would be difficult, if not impossible, for anyone to turn down a raise that doubles or triples their income doing what they love. Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part but I base this off the fact that he stuck around here for so long prior to leaving to "gain experience", his family is from this neck of the woods and as you stated, he bleeds black and gold.

[hAPPy4APP]

I totally get your point about teams who have success with rookie coaches, but I don't agree that we're comparing apples to apples. The others you mention were not faced with both a "move up", change in conference and losing an entire coaching staff. Boise was the closest to that.
That said, I'll reiterate I'm not a SS hater by any means, and I think it would be irresponsibe to change coaches now, but by going with the rookies,FCS assistants etc, we expose ourselves to a longer, more painful path, which hurts our pride, attendance and income.
I still stand by my comment there had opportunities like the overthrown passes that could have changed the game. Maybe not a win, but perhaps let us lose with a little more dignity.
One more comment, as Moonshine correctly stated, no coach is immune to money. Shaun Elliott is a prime example. Does he love App, I have no doubt. Would he give up his salary to come back to App - we all know the answer to that. BTW, I wouldn't consider SS's tenure at other schools as being sufficient to satisfy the "experience" requirement.
Besides, I don't think we have to worry about anyone hiring him away anytime soon.
Just talking here with no mailice toward any, even CC who I am soooooo glad belong to Georgia State.
It is what it is so we'll just have saddle up and ride on with it.

[NewApp]

I don't claim to be an authority on A.D. Cobb's hiring strategy, but some posters on this MMB said more than once that he had told Coach Satterfield that he couldn't become ASU's head football coach without having experience in a program outside of his alma mater's.

As to being a lifer at ASU, I haven't seen anything that would proclaim that he would stay here for the duration of his career. We have had several personnel in various sports who were deemed as bleeding black and gold who left for greener pastures. Just saying that there is absolutely no way of knowing what the future of any coach holds. If he's anywhere near as successful on the FBS level as Coach Moore was in FCS, he will possibly be offered far more in salary than we would likely be able/willing to pay. Sometimes the economic needs and desires of family trumps loyalty.

Yea I too heard that CC told him to leave the mountain to gain experience. Not sure what that has to do with what I said.

Of course none of us know what the future holds, especially as it relates to being a college football coach. This is why I prefaced my statement with "Now I could be wrong but personally I feel". I can imagine it would be difficult, if not impossible, for anyone to turn down a raise that doubles or triples their income doing what they love. Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part but I base this off the fact that he stuck around here for so long prior to leaving to "gain experience", his family is from this neck of the woods and as you stated, he bleeds black and gold.

I misinterpreted your "I hope he proves me wrong but I think SS should have waited to be the second head coach after Moore." remark. My bad.