Roster/Staff Updates

[AppStFan1]

That's all I was getting at.
We're wasting money spending $2M/year.
It's sad. The system priced us out.

This is true. I wanted to be FBS to be in tier two but if we end up in tier 3 or 4 instead of the top group below SEC/Big Ten I would rather just move down to FCS or D2 and win titles there. Why spend a few million to just go 4-8 in FBS when we could shrink our budget heavily and win at a lower level? If you can't get enough to truly compete at this level then might as well stop trying with a pathetic 2-4M a year. It is just a huge waste of money.

Winning an FCS title is akin to being the King of the Dipshits. It doesn’t make you a king. It just means you are the biggest dipshit.

Agreed but that is the only title we can win without NIL and with the little we have we aren't going to win at this level. I would rather be 13-1 in FCS right now than 3-9 at this level. South Dakota State has a better team than we do. They probably would have beaten us each of the last 4-5 years or so.

Sorry dude. Moving down is a defeatist position and doesn’t guarantee success.

I know it is but do you hear the arguments on here? People don't think Loggains is the right coach and want to move on because he is not winning enough but I am hearing people say we can't win because we don't have enough NIL. If people are saying they don't want to move down and we just can't win titles with our budget then why even move on from a coach? We might as well keep Loggains for 10+ years and not worry about our record since apparently we can't win with the money we have.

[AppSt94]

This is true. I wanted to be FBS to be in tier two but if we end up in tier 3 or 4 instead of the top group below SEC/Big Ten I would rather just move down to FCS or D2 and win titles there. Why spend a few million to just go 4-8 in FBS when we could shrink our budget heavily and win at a lower level? If you can't get enough to truly compete at this level then might as well stop trying with a pathetic 2-4M a year. It is just a huge waste of money.

Winning an FCS title is akin to being the King of the Dipshits. It doesn’t make you a king. It just means you are the biggest dipshit.

Agreed but that is the only title we can win without NIL and with the little we have we aren't going to win at this level. I would rather be 13-1 in FCS right now than 3-9 at this level. South Dakota State has a better team than we do. They probably would have beaten us each of the last 4-5 years or so.

Sorry dude. Moving down is a defeatist position and doesn’t guarantee success.

I know it is but do you hear the arguments on here? People don't think Loggains is the right coach and want to move on because he is not winning enough but I am hearing people say we can't win because we don't have enough NIL. If people are saying they don't want to move down and we just can't win titles with our budget then why even move on from a coach? We might as well keep Loggains for 10+ years and not worry about our record since apparently we can't win with the money we have.

Wins and losses aren’t the only criteria that constitute a bad hire. People will choose their narrative and will argue with anyone that sees it differently. The same arguments were made against Shawn and people were quick to dismiss it as being a homer mentality. Shawn dealt with the onset of NIL and a portal that made his job difficult. When folks brought that up, they were crucified as a homer and being too close or afraid of losing access, etc because winning is all that mattered. We hired a coach with 20 years of NFL experience and essentially doubled his budget for the same results. We aren’t a team or program that we once were. Consistency now looks like stringing together some 6, 7 and possibly 8 win seasons. It’s the new reality. What you are suggesting is not going to happen so just let it go.

[311neers]

The reality is that we, along with 90% of FBS are not going to be able to compete for titles on the national stage for football. People that have the money to waste, and that’s what NIL is will eventually figure out what a poor investment it is.

That's all I was getting at.
We're wasting money spending $2M/year.
It's sad. The system priced us out.

Which is why your comment was kind of odd. Why suffer losing seasons to "make a run" once every 5 years when we could spend 2 million now and have a shot to win our conference every year or so? No amount of money we can acquire is going to get us a natty. The one and only chip we need to aim for is a conference chip. That's it. That only requires the kind of money we already put in, along with some quality coaching.

Win the conference, everything else is just noise.

I’d love to keep doing what we’re doing now if it guaranteed winning the conference “every year or so” but we’re not even close to doing that. We will keep trying though, as I do agree- that’s the ceiling with our current NIL track/plan.

[311neers]

DLo having some good OV recruiting weekends on the mountain!

[AppDawg]

Make it an endowment, fund it was 4 years annually and then go all in year 5.

It falls apart when everyone only shows up ever fifth year as they know the plan.

Creating an endowment to pay kids to play sports. What have we become as a society?

Sad

I have been saying this for years as a means to pay coaches salaries and fund scholarships. Known costs. That frees up annual cash flow for other means.

Instead we rely on raising dollars annually to fund operations - also known as living paycheck to paycheck check.

Long been my biggest gripe not just of the Athletic department but also the university at-large. (Know it’s the function of government)

An earlier comment sums up the root cause perfectly, “if you don’t use budget dollars, you lose it the next year.”

[Mjohn1988]

I use to check in here almost daily. Now I pretty much check in when I’m really bored. And no offense but it’s blah, blah, blah. One group defends the new way, another group hates the new way and a third group tries to find a way to make something work that has absolutely no chance of ever working. As long as there are no rules App. Football will just be a revolving door for players who couldn’t make it somewhere else and players who are on there way to get paid in the P3.

[Yosef84]

I'm like MJohn in that I don't check in daily any more. Once football season starts, I probably will but the wind has definitely left my sails to some degree. That said, I'm still and will always be an App State fan. I see folks talking about moving back to FCS and it makes no sense at all. We had outgrown FCS before leaving and it has declined even further since then. Transfer Portal and NIL have definitely changed things, but I still believe that SunBelt is a good fit for App and we are in a conference of peer institutions. Yes, we have some things to fix and I believe we will. I never did believe we "belonged" with the SEC or the blue chip P5/P4 programs. That was never a level playing field or a reasonable goal (other than individual games). We showed the ability to compete in a game, but anyone who thinks we could have ever played an SEC schedule and competed is just delusional. I'm not disrespecting those teams of the past. I'm tremendously proud of the achievements and tradition that was built. We still have good days ahead. I hope it's soon!

GO Apps!!!!

[Stonewall]

It would take years to build an endowment. I assume by directing the current revenue stream toward it.

[ASUFan4863]

DLo having some good OV recruiting weekends on the mountain!

This staff continues to do a great job in recruiting the right pieces. Yes, other areas need improvement as well, but talent is something that takes time to acquire at our level.

[Oldlknapp]

It would take years to build an endowment. I assume by directing the current revenue stream toward it.

Most of the schools with sizable endowments have been around 50+ years longer than APP. For example UNC-CH is about 100 years older than APP. Given their alumni contributions and the benefits of compounding for 100 years head start, it will take decades of very generous contributions to make APP’s endowment a drop in the bucket to theirs.

[CornCobPipes]

The reality is that we, along with 90% of FBS are not going to be able to compete for titles on the national stage for football. People that have the money to waste, and that’s what NIL is will eventually figure out what a poor investment it is.

We saw it coming years ago....now it's here and nothing being done about it for any traditional construct.

[Bigdaddyg1]

If App had, say $10m available for a football payroll are we shelling out $1-$2m for possibly the 25th best available quarterback on the market? Now we have $8m ish left. There are what, 84 more guys? How many are getting paid, all of them? Let’s assume we are able to still play 2 power schools. Best case scenario is 1-1. Sunbelt will still be tough. We better run the table for a playoff spot.

Will the “investment group” be satisfied with 9-3 and the same old bowl game for $10m? Does our alumni base even have people with that kind of money to toss around for a football team?

[AppStFan1]

Winning an FCS title is akin to being the King of the Dipshits. It doesn’t make you a king. It just means you are the biggest dipshit.

Agreed but that is the only title we can win without NIL and with the little we have we aren't going to win at this level. I would rather be 13-1 in FCS right now than 3-9 at this level. South Dakota State has a better team than we do. They probably would have beaten us each of the last 4-5 years or so.

Sorry dude. Moving down is a defeatist position and doesn’t guarantee success.

I know it is but do you hear the arguments on here? People don't think Loggains is the right coach and want to move on because he is not winning enough but I am hearing people say we can't win because we don't have enough NIL. If people are saying they don't want to move down and we just can't win titles with our budget then why even move on from a coach? We might as well keep Loggains for 10+ years and not worry about our record since apparently we can't win with the money we have.

Wins and losses aren’t the only criteria that constitute a bad hire. People will choose their narrative and will argue with anyone that sees it differently. The same arguments were made against Shawn and people were quick to dismiss it as being a homer mentality. Shawn dealt with the onset of NIL and a portal that made his job difficult. When folks brought that up, they were crucified as a homer and being too close or afraid of losing access, etc because winning is all that mattered. We hired a coach with 20 years of NFL experience and essentially doubled his budget for the same results. We aren’t a team or program that we once were. Consistency now looks like stringing together some 6, 7 and possibly 8 win seasons. It’s the new reality. What you are suggesting is not going to happen so just let it go.

Outside of illegal stuff I would argue that wins will make people overlook other negatives while losses will make people nitpick over minor things. If our players represent us well and we contend for the Sun Belt East then that is all that matters to me.

The things Shawn dealt with were dealt with by other coaches. It was uncharted territory for everyone at the time. It probably would have helped if Shawn had been a head coach before. That prior experience helped head coaches who were new to a job for sure.

I am just saying that if we can't do better than 6-8 wins anymore then Loggains should only need to go 6-6 or 7-5 this year and should be fine. It does feel like some people are pulling for him to lose big time this year so we fire him and we go get a coach who will play politics better. I am pulling for Loggains as much as any prior head coach we have had because he is our head coach. I don't care if he gives me access to his office and to talk to him regularly and I feel like those who are obsessed with it need to grow up. I know they won't though.

[ASUFan4863]

AppStFan1 is correct. Winning makes people happy and shut up. Losing makes people mad and complain.

Anyone advocating for a coaching change this early, including 94, are doing so because they either A.) do not personally like the coach or B.) harboring negative feelings towards the firing of the previous coach.

Many of these people, including 94, will endlessly state they are rooting for the coach to succeed, but they just simply aren’t.

[AppSt94]

Who are these people that you keep saying want him to lose so they can fire him? Who are these people that you say are upset with their lack of access? You keep saying that this exists as a pressure point, yet you haven’t shown any evidence to support your assertions? It is well known that D Lo ruffled feathers with his showing up right before Mountaineer Talk, focusing on the TV during the interview and leaving immediately after his segment was over. It was not a good move and the administration addressed it. Like it or not, politics are part of the job when you need donors to support the endeavor.

[AppSt94]

AppStFan1 is correct. Winning makes people happy and shut up. Losing makes people mad and complain.

Anyone advocating for a coaching change this early, including 94, are doing so because they either A.) do not personally like the coach or B.) harboring negative feelings towards the firing of the previous coach.

Many of these people, including 94, will endlessly state they are rooting for the coach to succeed, but they just simply aren’t.

Neither is correct as it relates to me. Have I advocated for his firing? Where did I say that? I’ll save you some time, I didn’t. The resume is/was questionable and the hiring practices of hiring folks that aren’t qualified on paper for roles is concerning.

I want the best for App. I didn’t reduce my donation due to this hire or the firing. Whether he succeeds or fails doesn’t affect my life or my love for App. I can dislike a hire without a motive.

[bcoach]

I don't particularly like the guy and was not happy about the hire. I wanted someone with HC experience. With that said I want him to win. If he does not win and we buy him out I will never give another dime. Paying players is bad enough. Paying people to fire them is just way too stupid for me.

[AppStFan1]

Who are these people that you keep saying want him to lose so they can fire him? Who are these people that you say are upset with their lack of access? You keep saying that this exists as a pressure point, yet you haven’t shown any evidence to support your assertions? It is well known that D Lo ruffled feathers with his showing up right before Mountaineer Talk, focusing on the TV during the interview and leaving immediately after his segment was over. It was not a good move and the administration addressed it. Like it or not, politics are part of the job when you need donors to support the endeavor.

I will give you credit that you have not said those things. You are better than many because I know a ton of people who once they have an opinion on a coach they want that coach to do what they expect. A lot of people don't want to be wrong.

Politics are part of the job but I would love to hear what exactly the big money donors expect him to do. I think he should attend events, shake hands, and speak to groups but outside of YC events and things like fan fest I want my coach focused on recruiting, preparing for games, developing our talent, and working to keep our talent. Every minute he is having to kiss but during the week is less time he is doing the job we are paying him to do. We are paying him to coach our team and win games.

[AppStFan1]

I don't particularly like the guy and was not happy about the hire. I wanted someone with HC experience. With that said I want him to win. If he does not win and we buy him out I will never give another dime. Paying players is bad enough. Paying people to fire them is just way too stupid for me.

I had other names I wanted and they all had prior head coach experience at the FCS level but he is our coach and I am pulling hard for him like you are! I think he needs to be given a fair chance as well.

I am 100% with you on the buyout. I don't think we should fire him with a buyout to pay. If we do fire him I hope we either way until there is no buyout or have cause. It is beyond stupid to pay anyone not to work. The fact these ADs offer contracts that end up having them pay millions to someone not to coach is mind boggling.

[AppSt94]

Who are these people that you keep saying want him to lose so they can fire him? Who are these people that you say are upset with their lack of access? You keep saying that this exists as a pressure point, yet you haven’t shown any evidence to support your assertions? It is well known that D Lo ruffled feathers with his showing up right before Mountaineer Talk, focusing on the TV during the interview and leaving immediately after his segment was over. It was not a good move and the administration addressed it. Like it or not, politics are part of the job when you need donors to support the endeavor.

I will give you credit that you have not said those things. You are better than many because I know a ton of people who once they have an opinion on a coach they want that coach to do what they expect. A lot of people don't want to be wrong.

Politics are part of the job but I would love to hear what exactly the big money donors expect him to do. I think he should attend events, shake hands, and speak to groups but outside of YC events and things like fan fest I want my coach focused on recruiting, preparing for games, developing our talent, and working to keep our talent. Every minute he is having to kiss but during the week is less time he is doing the job we are paying him to do. We are paying him to coach our team and win games.

Again you are making some wild accusations without evidence. I don’t know of or I haven’t heard of anyone being upset that he won’t come over for dinner or a sleepover. In fact, I know for a fact that he does spend time with donors outside of program related events. He has even initiated the interactions in some instances. Just stop with the baseless arguments based on assumptions.