G6 playoff gaining momentum

[AtlAppMan]

When we have average lineman leaving and getting paid you know the market is frothy.

The third string QB at Wake was paid $75k this season and never saw the field

So ask him, in retrospect would you rather take $75k ( less agent fees and taxes) to bust your butt in practice and ride the pine or start or get playing time on field for a solid G5?

[Saint3333]

If you’re a gamer, make plays on a G6 team and multiple that by 4-5 the next year.

[ah59396]

https://x.com/themscpodcast/status/2002588108345450688

Reinventing the FCS is a terrible idea.

Energy of this thread is all wrong. The fight should be for regulation around nil and transfer portal, not a g5 playoff.

It’s a huge slap in the face to all of us who were on the team/worked with the team during the transition era to reach the highest level of football to give up now.

Out of curiosity, why would the powers that have control - and also happen to be rich - and wildly benefit from this new system....agree to regulate it? Why would they agree to increase parity?

I'm not against your thought process, I'd just like to know why you think this would be a possibility and if so, how?

[t4pizza]

When we have average lineman leaving and getting paid you know the market is frothy.

The third string QB at Wake was paid $75k this season and never saw the field

So ask him, in retrospect would you rather take $75k ( less agent fees and taxes) to bust your butt in practice and ride the pine or start or get playing time on field for a solid G5?

The problem is that none (or very few) of these kids ever think they are going to be riding the pine. The competitor in them thinks that they will work their way into playing time. Bigger is perceived as better, same reason we always lost recruits to P4-programs. Now you add real money to the kid and it is a no brainer. A lot of college grads don't make 75k their first year out of school, this kid was making it in school. I doubt there are many out there that would turn it down. A full ride to an outstanding scholastic college with great alumni base for post grad job opportunities AND 75k large on top of that. Yeah, I don't see many turning that down.

[t4pizza]

https://x.com/themscpodcast/status/2002588108345450688

Reinventing the FCS is a terrible idea.

Energy of this thread is all wrong. The fight should be for regulation around nil and transfer portal, not a g5 playoff.

It’s a huge slap in the face to all of us who were on the team/worked with the team during the transition era to reach the highest level of football to give up now.

Out of curiosity, why would the powers that have control - and also happen to be rich - and wildly benefit from this new system....agree to regulate it? Why would they agree to increase parity?

I'm not against your thought process, I'd just like to know why you think this would be a possibility and if so, how?

The easy answer is for the benefit of the sport, although that does not seem to matter to those in charge. I will say, they have already agreed to more parity just by increasing the playoff field. The SEC had a strangle hold when it was the BCS and then 4 team, all the best recruits went there and the titles were amassed. By opening it up, it has given more schools an opportunity to compete with the SEC for titles. Add in NIL and transfer portal and parity numbers increase even more. This year there were at least 10 teams that could compete for the national title, you couldn't say that 10 years ago.

[ah59396]

https://x.com/themscpodcast/status/2002588108345450688

Reinventing the FCS is a terrible idea.

Energy of this thread is all wrong. The fight should be for regulation around nil and transfer portal, not a g5 playoff.

It’s a huge slap in the face to all of us who were on the team/worked with the team during the transition era to reach the highest level of football to give up now.

Out of curiosity, why would the powers that have control - and also happen to be rich - and wildly benefit from this new system....agree to regulate it? Why would they agree to increase parity?

I'm not against your thought process, I'd just like to know why you think this would be a possibility and if so, how?

The easy answer is for the benefit of the sport, although that does not seem to matter to those in charge. I will say, they have already agreed to more parity just by increasing the playoff field. The SEC had a strangle hold when it was the BCS and then 4 team, all the best recruits went there and the titles were amassed. By opening it up, it has given more schools an opportunity to compete with the SEC for titles. Add in NIL and transfer portal and parity numbers increase even more. This year there were at least 10 teams that could compete for the national title, you couldn't say that 10 years ago.

True. I guess I just have no faith in any of them to make a decision for the betterment of the sport, given what we've witnessed the past 20 years. Even the addition of the playoff field is, from what I can tell, purely revenue driven.

[Mjohn1988]

https://x.com/themscpodcast/status/2002588108345450688

Reinventing the FCS is a terrible idea.

Energy of this thread is all wrong. The fight should be for regulation around nil and transfer portal, not a g5 playoff.

It’s a huge slap in the face to all of us who were on the team/worked with the team during the transition era to reach the highest level of football to give up now.

Out of curiosity, why would the powers that have control - and also happen to be rich - and wildly benefit from this new system....agree to regulate it? Why would they agree to increase parity?

I'm not against your thought process, I'd just like to know why you think this would be a possibility and if so, how?

The easy answer is for the benefit of the sport, although that does not seem to matter to those in charge. I will say, they have already agreed to more parity just by increasing the playoff field. The SEC had a strangle hold when it was the BCS and then 4 team, all the best recruits went there and the titles were amassed. By opening it up, it has given more schools an opportunity to compete with the SEC for titles. Add in NIL and transfer portal and parity numbers increase even more. This year there were at least 10 teams that could compete for the national title, you couldn't say that 10 years ago.

True. I guess I just have no faith in any of them to make a decision for the betterment of the sport, given what we've witnessed the past 20 years. Even the addition of the playoff field is, from what I can tell, purely revenue driven.

The only way this changes is if enough people lose enough interest and revenue starts to drop. I do believe that the G5 will lose fans and revenue. I’m not so sure about the P4, too many “Walmart” fans who don’t care about who’s on the team. I’m not sure the loss of revenue in the G5 will cause enough pain for the powers that be to fix this crap.

[Bigdaddyg1]

Baseball and basketball have some forms of luxury tax that theoretically helps smaller markets compete but many of those lesser teams really use that money wisely. I really can’t see any true regulation that will help G5’s. I agree with the above- what’s their incentive unless forced to do something.

[ericsaid]

https://x.com/themscpodcast/status/2002588108345450688

Reinventing the FCS is a terrible idea.

Energy of this thread is all wrong. The fight should be for regulation around nil and transfer portal, not a g5 playoff.

It’s a huge slap in the face to all of us who were on the team/worked with the team during the transition era to reach the highest level of football to give up now.

Out of curiosity, why would the powers that have control - and also happen to be rich - and wildly benefit from this new system....agree to regulate it? Why would they agree to increase parity?

I'm not against your thought process, I'd just like to know why you think this would be a possibility and if so, how?

The easy answer is for the benefit of the sport, although that does not seem to matter to those in charge. I will say, they have already agreed to more parity just by increasing the playoff field. The SEC had a strangle hold when it was the BCS and then 4 team, all the best recruits went there and the titles were amassed. By opening it up, it has given more schools an opportunity to compete with the SEC for titles. Add in NIL and transfer portal and parity numbers increase even more. This year there were at least 10 teams that could compete for the national title, you couldn't say that 10 years ago.

True. I guess I just have no faith in any of them to make a decision for the betterment of the sport, given what we've witnessed the past 20 years. Even the addition of the playoff field is, from what I can tell, purely revenue driven.

The only way this changes is if enough people lose enough interest and revenue starts to drop. I do believe that the G5 will lose fans and revenue. I’m not so sure about the P4, too many “Walmart” fans who don’t care about who’s on the team. I’m not sure the loss of revenue in the G5 will cause enough pain for the powers that be to fix this crap.

None of this is unprecedented. You have 134 FBS programs and 12 playoff slots. College football is far more like European Soccer than it is like the NFL and we should begin to follow their model.

The UEFA Champions League takes the top finishers (number determined by a competition coefficient after a set period) from each league. Then you have the Europa League which takes the next set of finishers and then you have the Conference League which takes the next.


This would fill inventory for bowl games (they are dead) and still give corporate interests the advertising opportunities that they are looking for.


Transfer fees should also be instituted. If a program wants a player from another school, they need to negotiate fair market value of that player with the league.

And no, this doesn’t require a CBA or anything else of the sort. If conferences instituted rules, without technical collusion, but that were close enough to standard, this could be fixed.

Lastly, I don’t know what’s stopping Universities from creating academy systems where they open up athletics minded schools beginning with middle school in close proximity to them. With NIL they can now pay kids to transfer in places at that level too, and that secures their commitment most likely. If that isn’t already happening, I can guarantee you someone is thinking about it.

[spacemonkey]

The g5 teams have to quit giving the money games to p4 and start capitalizing on the one CFP spot. I still think we will get that spot in the new CFP. I also think that will go to 16 teams. G5 need to have an fcs game and at most 1 p4 game. Then go right into the season with the last 3 weeks being some sort of play-in scenario. My wish would be for the g5 to break into 4 large directional conferences. East, north, south, west and play crossovers the last 3 weeks. Line up each conference 1-16 and 1 play 1 and 2 play 2. If you cant afford the travel the last 3 weeks drop to FCS. It would serve two purposes. The first is the sole reason for sports to spread the brand. Spread the brand nationwide. Second the games would matter.

A really slick logistics system could only make the top 4 of each conference travel the last 3 weeks. The others could be matched up with local rivals. The big problem with my system is the last 3 games if not in the top 4 may be some poorly attended games. The TV money should help on that. If I were App....I would try to create this 40 team conference just like SEC and the BIG have done. 10 East, 10 South, 10 West, 10 North or at least a scheduling alliance for the tv money of the last 3 weeks of football.

[BambooRdApp]

I am not in agreement with this play. JMU only got in due the fact that a 7-5 Dook team upset Va. Given JMUs weak OOC schedule, they were not going to get in otherwise.
I say we schedule the P4 teams, win and write our own destiny.

[AppfaninCAALand]

None of this is unprecedented. You have 134 FBS programs and 12 playoff slots. College football is far more like European Soccer than it is like the NFL and we should begin to follow their model.

The UEFA Champions League takes the top finishers (number determined by a competition coefficient after a set period) from each league. Then you have the Europa League which takes the next set of finishers and then you have the Conference League which takes the next.


This would fill inventory for bowl games (they are dead) and still give corporate interests the advertising opportunities that they are looking for.


Transfer fees should also be instituted. If a program wants a player from another school, they need to negotiate fair market value of that player with the league.

And no, this doesn’t require a CBA or anything else of the sort. If conferences instituted rules, without technical collusion, but that were close enough to standard, this could be fixed.

Lastly, I don’t know what’s stopping Universities from creating academy systems where they open up athletics minded schools beginning with middle school in close proximity to them. With NIL they can now pay kids to transfer in places at that level too, and that secures their commitment most likely. If that isn’t already happening, I can guarantee you someone is thinking about it.

I have long felt that if college sports wanted to reform itself, rather than modeling itself on American pro sports, a better source of inspiration would be that of European soccer, where clubs of vastly different resources, from some of the most valuable and well known professional sports teams in the world to purely amateur small town drinking clubs, all compete within the same structural framework.

I am not sure which inspirations would be best to implement exactly (transfer fees, promotion/relegation, various cup qualifiers, something else?) but I just feel it has more in common with US college athletics than the NFL, NBA, or MLB does.

[bcoach]

Well we need to figure out a system for ourselves because the Big and SEC are going to be leaving us behind after they decide what teams they will be taking from the ACC and Big 12. We will need our own playoff or have none at all.

[Apptiger]

This is easy. There are ten FBS conferences. Each get an auto bid for their champion or however the conferences decide who to send. The next six can be seeded by ranking or however the "committee" see fit. The goal is to get the 6 best teams that are not auto qualifiers.

16 teams, no byes, teams are seeded by the "committee" based on predetermined criteria.
The only objections to this format could come from the SEC and Big Ten. They might not get 3-4 teams in every year.

[BambooRdApp]

This is easy. There are ten FBS conferences. Each get an auto bid for their champion or however the conferences decide who to send. The next six can be seeded by ranking or however the "committee" see fit. The goal is to get the 6 best teams that are not auto qualifiers.

16 teams, no byes, teams are seeded by the "committee" based on predetermined criteria.
The only objections to this format could come from the SEC and Big Ten. They might not get 3-4 teams in every year.

That is a Mount Everest of objectiions..or maybe Twin Peaks.
Their sole objective it seems is to primarily dominate the number of teams in playoffs..all about the money..

[ArmantiWaterSafety]

I am not in agreement with this play. JMU only got in due the fact that a 7-5 Dook team upset Va. Given JMUs weak OOC schedule, they were not going to get in otherwise.
I say we schedule the P4 teams, win and write our own destiny.

I think herein lies my biggest issue, regardless of if you're serious or not because this kind of encapsulates all previous points.

I understand blood, sweat, and tears were used to build us up to the level we are now, which we're all incredibly thankful for. Seeing where we are now vs. just 10 years ago is unreal. I just think we're fooling ourselves into thinking we're somewhere we're not. We are located in an area that makes it physically impossible to expand, and city planning is already maxed out for our 35k we bring for games.

Watched a video yesterday about the GPS Method for Goal Setting, and on the P (plan) piece, it talked about how they should be realistic, both in practice and in theory, and both of those pieces should have an 80% realism percentage or else you should rethink your plan. We can shoot for the stars and maybe lower that to 25%, but I think we're closer to 0%.

Currently, we basically have to go undefeated to get into the CFP (barring some crazy thing that happens, i.e. Duke vs. Virginia). Probability extremely low, even with a great team (i.e. 2019 us) there's likely a fluke game in blustery cold that's going to screw you up.

So we take your approach, and schedule the P4's. Now, we know from history we're very rarely going to get the chance to play two P4's in a year, and even playing one going forward is looking grim, but we'll stick with it for now. So you have one chance to play a P4 in which we have a 5% chance of winning. We've seen that chance hit multiple times, but it's still low. Why would a team with a 5% chance of winning against a mid-tier P4 have a shot in the playoff?

I also disagree with whoever in this thread said there's a David vs. Goliath scenario where we will see a G6 beat a P4 in the playoffs if we play enough of those. Even if they did win one with a 1% chance of winning, they'd have to win 2 more. Upsets almost always happen at the beginning of the season before teams get a chance to gel. Sometimes the teams just end up sucking and we'd probably beat them at the end of the season too, but then both a) it wouldn't be an upset because we would know they sucked and b) they wouldn't be in the playoffs. This isn't basketball, there are massive physical advantages that are impossible to overcome late in the season.

All that to say, I see a literal 0% chance of a G6 winning a national championship in the current climate. So we're playing for a meaningless bowl game all season which they screwed up with the transfer portal and zero penalty for not participating. CBA seems to be the only path forward to sustain this model to make it financially impactful for an individual to not participate in the bowl game. I know some think a G6 playoff would also be meaningless, but we are never going to get to the level of the top 15 or so unless we happen to produce the next Warren Buffet or Elon Musk, and even then our physical location is going to prevent us from getting there.

[ASUTodd]

Here's how all of this will work.... App State, and all other teams outside the Big 10 and SEC, will have ZERO say in anything that happens from here on out. Everyone else lives on scraps.

[AtlAppMan]

If we voluntarily leave to create our "own" playoff system we will be right back in FCS land. I don't agree with that. We all knew the dirty world of FBS when we (most folks supporting App Football) decided to move up. We just have to continue to fight for what we can. The power players are against us and will continue to do what is in their self interest, no question. This system now is not sustainable for sure so it will change, don't know how but it will. More and more coaches are complaining. But my point is, leaving now isn't the answer. We will be repeating history and stuck in non relevant college football for next 50 yrs.

[fjblair]

The g5 teams have to quit giving the money games to p4 and start capitalizing on the one CFP spot. I still think we will get that spot in the new CFP. I also think that will go to 16 teams. G5 need to have an fcs game and at most 1 p4 game. Then go right into the season with the last 3 weeks being some sort of play-in scenario. My wish would be for the g5 to break into 4 large directional conferences. East, north, south, west and play crossovers the last 3 weeks. Line up each conference 1-16 and 1 play 1 and 2 play 2. If you cant afford the travel the last 3 weeks drop to FCS. It would serve two purposes. The first is the sole reason for sports to spread the brand. Spread the brand nationwide. Second the games would matter.

A really slick logistics system could only make the top 4 of each conference travel the last 3 weeks. The others could be matched up with local rivals. The big problem with my system is the last 3 games if not in the top 4 may be some poorly attended games. The TV money should help on that. If I were App....I would try to create this 40 team conference just like SEC and the BIG have done. 10 East, 10 South, 10 West, 10 North or at least a scheduling alliance for the tv money of the last 3 weeks of football.

The brand is already stretched paper thin.