FB at No. 24 JMU, 3:30 p.m., ESPN+

[AppStFan1]

I said this a month or so ago and I'll say it again. This team lacks talent. This is particularly true on the offensive line. I don't know enough about football to know how you can effectively play call around an o-line that can't pass or run block. This is just a bad Appalachian football team. And I would argue that we have completely lost the "brand" we had a few years ago.

One big thing you can do is move the line and start with the QB rolling out of the pocket and throw a lot of quick passes. You can also put a tight end inline or keep a running back in the backfield to provide extra protection. Those things really hamstring the playbook and make it a lot harder to have the game plan we would ideally want though.

These are excellent points. Personally, and I am no expert, I don't think the line is athletic enough to produce a moving pocket. Quick passes would be great if our receivers would hold on to the ball. And for a few years, our backs have been pretty useless in pass protection.

Not saying it would work in our case but those are some of the things you can do. Good coaches evaluate their team to find weaknesses and the best way to mask them so they aren't glaring on game day.

[AppStFan1]

I said this a month or so ago and I'll say it again. This team lacks talent. This is particularly true on the offensive line. I don't know enough about football to know how you can effectively play call around an o-line that can't pass or run block. This is just a bad Appalachian football team. And I would argue that we have completely lost the "brand" we had a few years ago.

One big thing you can do is move the line and start with the QB rolling out of the pocket and throw a lot of quick passes. You can also put a tight end inline or keep a running back in the backfield to provide extra protection. Those things really hamstring the playbook and make it a lot harder to have the game plan we would ideally want though.

DLo has done those things. Both 85 and 7 have been in on pass protection. On the one QB roll in first half on Saturday, Swan was off target. Not sure that is his or JJ's strengths. JJ seems to be better at it, however, he holds onto the ball too long waiting for the TE or WR to get actually open..
One play that actually did do well which was an pitch to 7 that was a run outside the tackle. Got the lineman moving lateral so not taking on Dline in direct stance. Went for like 9 yards. Did not see it again in the first half. I have been saying to our seat mates at games that we need to try running some outside to keep Dline and LBs off balance.

Indeed. It has not all worked. Using a RB and TE on pass protection is a good example but then it limits what you want to do, like I said. Loggains likes to use the TE so having them just block does restrict many of the plays he likes to use.

[bcoach]

I said this a month or so ago and I'll say it again. This team lacks talent. This is particularly true on the offensive line. I don't know enough about football to know how you can effectively play call around an o-line that can't pass or run block. This is just a bad Appalachian football team. And I would argue that we have completely lost the "brand" we had a few years ago.

One big thing you can do is move the line and start with the QB rolling out of the pocket and throw a lot of quick passes. You can also put a tight end inline or keep a running back in the backfield to provide extra protection. Those things really hamstring the playbook and make it a lot harder to have the game plan we would ideally want though.

DLo has done those things. Both 85 and 7 have been in on pass protection. On the one QB roll in first half on Saturday, Swan was off target. Not sure that is his or JJ's strengths. JJ seems to be better at it, however, he holds onto the ball too long waiting for the TE or WR to get actually open..
One play that actually did do well which was an pitch to 7 that was a run outside the tackle. Got the lineman moving lateral so not taking on Dline in direct stance. Went for like 9 yards. Did not see it again in the first half. I have been saying to our seat mates at games that we need to try running some outside to keep Dline and LBs off balance.

Indeed. It has not all worked. Using a RB and TE on pass protection is a good example but then it limits what you want to do, like I said. Loggains likes to use the TE so having them just block does restrict many of the plays he likes to use.

A good coach can't always do what he likes to do. Sometimes they need to do what they can do.

[AppStFan1]

I said this a month or so ago and I'll say it again. This team lacks talent. This is particularly true on the offensive line. I don't know enough about football to know how you can effectively play call around an o-line that can't pass or run block. This is just a bad Appalachian football team. And I would argue that we have completely lost the "brand" we had a few years ago.

One big thing you can do is move the line and start with the QB rolling out of the pocket and throw a lot of quick passes. You can also put a tight end inline or keep a running back in the backfield to provide extra protection. Those things really hamstring the playbook and make it a lot harder to have the game plan we would ideally want though.

DLo has done those things. Both 85 and 7 have been in on pass protection. On the one QB roll in first half on Saturday, Swan was off target. Not sure that is his or JJ's strengths. JJ seems to be better at it, however, he holds onto the ball too long waiting for the TE or WR to get actually open..
One play that actually did do well which was an pitch to 7 that was a run outside the tackle. Got the lineman moving lateral so not taking on Dline in direct stance. Went for like 9 yards. Did not see it again in the first half. I have been saying to our seat mates at games that we need to try running some outside to keep Dline and LBs off balance.

Indeed. It has not all worked. Using a RB and TE on pass protection is a good example but then it limits what you want to do, like I said. Loggains likes to use the TE so having them just block does restrict many of the plays he likes to use.

A good coach can't always do what he likes to do. Sometimes they need to do what they can do.

I think that is what is going on with Loggains right now. If he decides to return for next year I am sure we will see a lot of changes. I want to reserve my judgements until I see the results of year 2.

[CharlotteApp05]

Interesting wording. IF he decides to return next year....

I think everyone is realizing that it may have been a bad hire.....But is anyone sensing he realizes? Is it a possibility he leaves?

[Saint3333]

The only way he leaves is for an OC job that pays more than he makes today and then I don't think he'll take it. He has the chance to turn this around and make a name for himself and in this environment could be sought after with only one good season.

Who would hire him as OC with the results this year?

The reality is he's ours for a minimum of two years unless he's wildly successful next year. Still pulling for him and the Mountaineers.

[AppSt94]

Interesting wording. IF he decides to return next year....

I think everyone is realizing that it may have been a bad hire.....But is anyone sensing he realizes? Is it a possibility he leaves?

Anything is possible.

[Tru2ASU]

Jerry Mack from Kennesaw State.

[BambooRdApp]

Coaching is part of it. Getting talent is another component. We are behind our peers in nil funding (good group schools we used to compare ourselves to).
Unless that changes, DLo may not have the Jimmy and Joe's to be successful.

This is not just a statement for DLo... Any HC that comes to App. St

[t4pizza]

Coaching is part of it. Getting talent is another component. We are behind our peers in nil funding (good group schools we used to compare ourselves to).
Unless that changes, DLo may not have the Jimmy and Joe's to be successful.

This is not just a statement for DLo... Any HC that comes to App. St

I know we say that we are behind in NIL, and we might be, but has anyone actually seen any numbers from any peer schools that support that statement? I sure haven't. I know we have larger donations and ticket sales then everyone in the Sun Belt, so why should I blindly believe that somehow all these schools have more NIL? They might, but it seems odd to me and until I see facts and figures to support that proposition, it is little more than a bogyman that bad programs like to blame. Does anyone really believe that we have the only "old school" boosters who don't like the idea of paying young mercenary players to play a year and then leave? I bet most schools have that mentality. You really think Marshall has that much greater NIL then we do? They lost their coach last year and the vast majority of talent from their team, who now mostly play for USM, and yet they are a competitive football team that I expect will embarrass us next week. Most were not expecting a big year this year, but wanted to see improvement and that has not happened at all. We can blame NIL all we want, but I don't think anyone actually knows the truth behind what peer schools are spending on NIL in comparison to App.

[ASUTodd]

Coaching is part of it. Getting talent is another component. We are behind our peers in nil funding (good group schools we used to compare ourselves to).
Unless that changes, DLo may not have the Jimmy and Joe's to be successful.

This is not just a statement for DLo... Any HC that comes to App. St

I know we say that we are behind in NIL, and we might be, but has anyone actually seen any numbers from any peer schools that support that statement? I sure haven't. I know we have larger donations and ticket sales then everyone in the Sun Belt, so why should I blindly believe that somehow all these schools have more NIL? They might, but it seems odd to me and until I see facts and figures to support that proposition, it is little more than a bogyman that bad programs like to blame. Does anyone really believe that we have the only "old school" boosters who don't like the idea of paying young mercenary players to play a year and then leave? I bet most schools have that mentality. You really think Marshall has that much greater NIL then we do? They lost their coach last year and the vast majority of talent from their team, who now mostly play for USM, and yet they are a competitive football team that I expect will embarrass us next week. Most were not expecting a big year this year, but wanted to see improvement and that has not happened at all. We can blame NIL all we want, but I don't think anyone actually knows the truth behind what peer schools are spending on NIL in comparison to App.

The fact NIL isnt mandatorily reported to the public is what makes it so sketchy. Congress should either modify current laws or make a new mandating this information be available. I'm sure that those in coaching positions could get some numbers for reference but unless someone tells it, we won't know....and even then we have no way to prove the validity.

[AppSt94]

Coaching is part of it. Getting talent is another component. We are behind our peers in nil funding (good group schools we used to compare ourselves to).
Unless that changes, DLo may not have the Jimmy and Joe's to be successful.

This is not just a statement for DLo... Any HC that comes to App. St

I know we say that we are behind in NIL, and we might be, but has anyone actually seen any numbers from any peer schools that support that statement? I sure haven't. I know we have larger donations and ticket sales then everyone in the Sun Belt, so why should I blindly believe that somehow all these schools have more NIL? They might, but it seems odd to me and until I see facts and figures to support that proposition, it is little more than a bogyman that bad programs like to blame. Does anyone really believe that we have the only "old school" boosters who don't like the idea of paying young mercenary players to play a year and then leave? I bet most schools have that mentality. You really think Marshall has that much greater NIL then we do? They lost their coach last year and the vast majority of talent from their team, who now mostly play for USM, and yet they are a competitive football team that I expect will embarrass us next week. Most were not expecting a big year this year, but wanted to see improvement and that has not happened at all. We can blame NIL all we want, but I don't think anyone actually knows the truth behind what peer schools are spending on NIL in comparison to App.

I’ve heard, and not something that I can claim the be verifiable. We work with $1.2. Boise works with $4 million. Someone told me that JMU pays their OL on average $180k.

[BambooRdApp]

Coaching is part of it. Getting talent is another component. We are behind our peers in nil funding (good group schools we used to compare ourselves to).
Unless that changes, DLo may not have the Jimmy and Joe's to be successful.

This is not just a statement for DLo... Any HC that comes to App. St

I know we say that we are behind in NIL, and we might be, but has anyone actually seen any numbers from any peer schools that support that statement? I sure haven't. I know we have larger donations and ticket sales then everyone in the Sun Belt, so why should I blindly believe that somehow all these schools have more NIL? They might, but it seems odd to me and until I see facts and figures to support that proposition, it is little more than a bogyman that bad programs like to blame. Does anyone really believe that we have the only "old school" boosters who don't like the idea of paying young mercenary players to play a year and then leave? I bet most schools have that mentality. You really think Marshall has that much greater NIL then we do? They lost their coach last year and the vast majority of talent from their team, who now mostly play for USM, and yet they are a competitive football team that I expect will embarrass us next week. Most were not expecting a big year this year, but wanted to see improvement and that has not happened at all. We can blame NIL all we want, but I don't think anyone actually knows the truth behind what peer schools are spending on NIL in comparison to App.

The fact NIL isnt mandatorily reported to the public is what makes it so sketchy. Congress should either modify current laws or make a new mandating this information be available. I'm sure that those in coaching positions could get some numbers for reference but unless someone tells it, we won't know....and even then we have no way to prove the validity.

Schools know or have an indication of what other schools may have to a certain extent. I am assuming we spend a little over $1.0 million in nil based upon what people have posted previously on YC

And, yes, NIL his not publicly reported. I have been skeptical as well. I have tried to inquire this year if I meet people that seemed to have knowledge.
Is it scientific? nope. No reason not to believe the people I talk to.
It is just inquires of people at away games.
While in Boise, we bought a great parking spot near the stadium. Before the game, we had some long discussions with some of their season ticket holders and ate some of their food ..One of the guys said that they pay over $3 million in NIL. He said last year was even more to keep Jenty. I believe, he alone, got over a million last year. Another Boise booster said he thought anywhere from $2.5 to $4 million.
While at JMU Saturday, we talked to some folks at Jimmy Madisons..they said they thought over $2 million.. probably more...
A colleague of mine that works in Dallas office said he thought UNT was over $2.5 million...may e $3 million.. said he was not sure if sustainable long term. Maybe, maybe not.

While in Hattiesburg, I arrived right before the game. Did not get the opportunity to talk to anyone about their NIL.

Is any of this true, who knows. I do not have any reason to not believe them.

[Mjohn1988]

Bottom line is nobody knows NIL numbers. We are facing the same programs we faced before NIL and the portal. If they have so much more money now then they had that money 5 years ago too. I’m of the mindset that everyone in the belt is dealing with NIL and the portal. Find a way to compete or go back to the FCS. But don’t come at me with the NIL money excuse. This was not aimed at anyone, just a general statement.

[t4pizza]

Coaching is part of it. Getting talent is another component. We are behind our peers in nil funding (good group schools we used to compare ourselves to).
Unless that changes, DLo may not have the Jimmy and Joe's to be successful.

This is not just a statement for DLo... Any HC that comes to App. St

I know we say that we are behind in NIL, and we might be, but has anyone actually seen any numbers from any peer schools that support that statement? I sure haven't. I know we have larger donations and ticket sales then everyone in the Sun Belt, so why should I blindly believe that somehow all these schools have more NIL? They might, but it seems odd to me and until I see facts and figures to support that proposition, it is little more than a bogyman that bad programs like to blame. Does anyone really believe that we have the only "old school" boosters who don't like the idea of paying young mercenary players to play a year and then leave? I bet most schools have that mentality. You really think Marshall has that much greater NIL then we do? They lost their coach last year and the vast majority of talent from their team, who now mostly play for USM, and yet they are a competitive football team that I expect will embarrass us next week. Most were not expecting a big year this year, but wanted to see improvement and that has not happened at all. We can blame NIL all we want, but I don't think anyone actually knows the truth behind what peer schools are spending on NIL in comparison to App.

I’ve heard, and not something that I can claim the be verifiable. We work with $1.2. Boise works with $4 million. Someone told me that JMU pays their OL on average $180k.

I get that, we all have heard/see anecdotal evidence of the great NIL disparity, I just really want to know the facts and figures. Schools don't seem to ready to disclose this information. If JMU really pays the OL 180K average, is that just the starting 5 or the entire room? If it is just the starting 5, that is 900k just for the OLine. I would like to know the veracity of that because it seems completely out of line with their history of athletic donations where we far out raise them. I found this website about JMU and the numbers are very modest, I am sure there are other sources but looking through this, I don't see 900K for the Oline.

https://give.jmu.edu/2024-diggin-dukes

[appgrad95&97]

Last time, the difference between us and the rest of the conference and most of the G6 is our debt. We have the revenue to be at or very close to the Sun Belt, but our debt service payments are much larger. Revenue is just half the story.

[yosef69]

Last time, the difference between us and the rest of the conference and most of the G6 is our debt. We have the revenue to be at or very close to the Sun Belt, but our debt service payments are much larger. Revenue is just half the story.

Perfect time to get more and start stadium expansion, right?

We are so screwed

[AppSt94]

Coaching is part of it. Getting talent is another component. We are behind our peers in nil funding (good group schools we used to compare ourselves to).
Unless that changes, DLo may not have the Jimmy and Joe's to be successful.

This is not just a statement for DLo... Any HC that comes to App. St

I know we say that we are behind in NIL, and we might be, but has anyone actually seen any numbers from any peer schools that support that statement? I sure haven't. I know we have larger donations and ticket sales then everyone in the Sun Belt, so why should I blindly believe that somehow all these schools have more NIL? They might, but it seems odd to me and until I see facts and figures to support that proposition, it is little more than a bogyman that bad programs like to blame. Does anyone really believe that we have the only "old school" boosters who don't like the idea of paying young mercenary players to play a year and then leave? I bet most schools have that mentality. You really think Marshall has that much greater NIL then we do? They lost their coach last year and the vast majority of talent from their team, who now mostly play for USM, and yet they are a competitive football team that I expect will embarrass us next week. Most were not expecting a big year this year, but wanted to see improvement and that has not happened at all. We can blame NIL all we want, but I don't think anyone actually knows the truth behind what peer schools are spending on NIL in comparison to App.

I’ve heard, and not something that I can claim the be verifiable. We work with $1.2. Boise works with $4 million. Someone told me that JMU pays their OL on average $180k.

I get that, we all have heard/see anecdotal evidence of the great NIL disparity, I just really want to know the facts and figures. Schools don't seem to ready to disclose this information. If JMU really pays the OL 180K average, is that just the starting 5 or the entire room? If it is just the starting 5, that is 900k just for the OLine. I would like to know the veracity of that because it seems completely out of line with their history of athletic donations where we far out raise them. I found this website about JMU and the numbers are very modest, I am sure there are other sources but looking through this, I don't see 900K for the Oline.

https://give.jmu.edu/2024-diggin-dukes

I was told that was for 9 OL. Like I said, I trust the source but I have no proof or corroboration to back it up. I don’t think that you will see any real facts and figures unless the schools have to disclose it in their financials as a line item. I’ll have to ask if that is the case going forward now that schools can pay.

[MrCraig]

Bottom line is nobody knows NIL numbers. We are facing the same programs we faced before NIL and the portal. If they have so much more money now then they had that money 5 years ago too. I’m of the mindset that everyone in the belt is dealing with NIL and the portal. Find a way to compete or go back to the FCS. But don’t come at me with the NIL money excuse. This was not aimed at anyone, just a general statement.

PREACH!!!!

[T-Dog]

As alluded to, North Carolina state law prevents universities from disclosing NIL figures.

Someone besides me needs to start the Marshall thread. I started this one and the game didn't go well.