App @ GS -2.5

[BallantyneApp]

Radio crew saying we have the right coaching and the right players. He's back next year 99% IMHO. They are blaming fans fans for rejecting it because of only losing season in years and years.
Ringing pretty hollow and sounds like the admin has made up its mind.
Sounds like the admin is going back to the philosophy they had when I first got to Boone....Athletics is a compliment to a well rounded education.

Higher ed is already in a major enrollment drop off. App has built its brand off of being a premier football school. If App loses its athletic advantage, we’re going to completely fall off. And I mean staff cuts left and right, major debt, and a total collapse of the brand that we all know.

This isn’t the time to play pretend and act like it’s 1997, 2007, or even 2017. Times have changed rapidly and we’re falling behind.

This over and over again. There are colleges and universities literally closing down all over the country. App is a premier teacher’s college, but no one is going into teaching anymore. App HAS to have a good athletics program to differentiate themselves from other schools and keep getting students.

App has a premier business school, a college of health sciences gaining programs and a new innovation district helping us pivot into more STEM degrees over liberal arts.

Right we need our front porch in order but App is not and has not been a “teachers college” for a long long time

I’m going to be totally frank here: I’ve worked in higher ed for years and years now and App is mainly known as a teaching college. When I tell people that I went to App for grad and undergrad, the first thing I hear from them is either about football, about it being a teaching college, or it being so cold in Boone.

That’s not to say that our other programs and colleges aren’t equally as important, but we aren’t quite as ‘known’ for them, not yet at least. And looking at App’s numbers, we’re doing alright, but that’s also largely due to the Hickory campus pulling in numbers of people who might never step foot on campus in Boone or really care about athletics.

Because of all of this, App is not invincible. Enrollment is down nationwide. Schools are closing or merging with others near by. 24 colleges closed in 2024. 5 more have already announced that this spring will be their last one open. And all of this is happening while our forthcoming administration is hoping to defund our Department of Education, which keeps THOUSANDS of schools open, while many students are choosing to not go into debt when they could just get a job back home.

This is a very real and scary threat that App is looking down the barrel of, just as every other non-flagship and non-P5 school is.

Everyone’s opinions are colored by their personal experience. You are siloed in your industry(and so am I) but I can tell you in the business community regionally WCOB is highly thought of, especially accounting.

[AtlAppMan]

1. About emailing Gillin, as AD shouldn’t he know what needs to be done and why without one of us emailing him? I expect him to know when he has a problem that requires his attention or else we have the wrong person in that role.

2. On buyouts in general, isn’t that somewhat baked into part of the budget for the overall cost of the program? Why have them in the contract if you never intend to or cannot afford to use them? I would think they are calculated as an amount that provides a mitigation factor (plan B) for when plan A doesn’t work. Basically plan B prevents a larger loss when plan A doesn’t work.

A business person would have reserves.

Every school person I have ever spoken to has said they are broke.

I said this in another post. But if this is truly the case and we can’t afford this freaking buyout…We have much larger problems than the crap we’ve seen on the field the past few years. If athletics finances are THAT bad, Doug needs to go for the absolute mismanagement of the athletic departments finances.

I would like to think that’s not the case.

Some are missing my point.

The “buyout” is just one piece of the budget pie. If you just singularly focus on that you are missing the overall cost of doing business.

When a company evaluates a buying decision , I.e. software or hardware, the total cost of ownership extends way beyond the cost of that single item (ex. Installation, retraining users, impact from continuing with old vs benefits of new). This is same situation and buyout is a relatively small part of that overall impact. Viewing it otherwise is a naive mgmt position.

That being said, I don’t have the complete picture and impact analysis of both options so I am not opining on which path to take but I expect it will be fully vetted by AD, interim Pres and BOT.

[spacemonkey]

So back to the game…we gave it away. Joey Turnover and too many poor coaching decisions. Victory was there for the taking. A winning season and likely bowl bid. Same script , different venue.

Back to the game....Doug needs to have one discussion with Clark. "Help me understand your thought process for not calling a timeout with 2:12 on the clock when we have to have a 3 amd out". There is not an answer that Clark can give. Amd then Doug should say. "I think you are a great guy and I truly believe you gave your all for AppState, but we are going to need more at our head coaching position. I wish you well in your next endeavor ".

[BambooRdApp]

Higher ed is already in a major enrollment drop off. App has built its brand off of being a premier football school. If App loses its athletic advantage, we’re going to completely fall off. And I mean staff cuts left and right, major debt, and a total collapse of the brand that we all know.

This isn’t the time to play pretend and act like it’s 1997, 2007, or even 2017. Times have changed rapidly and we’re falling behind.

This over and over again. There are colleges and universities literally closing down all over the country. App is a premier teacher’s college, but no one is going into teaching anymore. App HAS to have a good athletics program to differentiate themselves from other schools and keep getting students.

App has a premier business school, a college of health sciences gaining programs and a new innovation district helping us pivot into more STEM degrees over liberal arts.

Right we need our front porch in order but App is not and has not been a “teachers college” for a long long time

I’m going to be totally frank here: I’ve worked in higher ed for years and years now and App is mainly known as a teaching college. When I tell people that I went to App for grad and undergrad, the first thing I hear from them is either about football, about it being a teaching college, or it being so cold in Boone.

That’s not to say that our other programs and colleges aren’t equally as important, but we aren’t quite as ‘known’ for them, not yet at least. And looking at App’s numbers, we’re doing alright, but that’s also largely due to the Hickory campus pulling in numbers of people who might never step foot on campus in Boone or really care about athletics.

Because of all of this, App is not invincible. Enrollment is down nationwide. Schools are closing or merging with others near by. 24 colleges closed in 2024. 5 more have already announced that this spring will be their last one open. And all of this is happening while our forthcoming administration is hoping to defund our Department of Education, which keeps THOUSANDS of schools open, while many students are choosing to not go into debt when they could just get a job back home.

This is a very real and scary threat that App is looking down the barrel of, just as every other non-flagship and non-P5 school is.

Everyone’s opinions are colored by their personal experience. You are siloed in your industry(and so am I) but I can tell you in the business community regionally WCOB is highly thought of, especially accounting.

As one of those accounting majors, I would say the accounting program is elite

[AppDub]

1. About emailing Gillin, as AD shouldn’t he know what needs to be done and why without one of us emailing him? I expect him to know when he has a problem that requires his attention or else we have the wrong person in that role.

2. On buyouts in general, isn’t that somewhat baked into part of the budget for the overall cost of the program? Why have them in the contract if you never intend to or cannot afford to use them? I would think they are calculated as an amount that provides a mitigation factor (plan B) for when plan A doesn’t work. Basically plan B prevents a larger loss when plan A doesn’t work.

A business person would have reserves.

Every school person I have ever spoken to has said they are broke.

I said this in another post. But if this is truly the case and we can’t afford this freaking buyout…We have much larger problems than the crap we’ve seen on the field the past few years. If athletics finances are THAT bad, Doug needs to go for the absolute mismanagement of the athletic departments finances.

I would like to think that’s not the case.

Some are missing my point.

The “buyout” is just one piece of the budget pie. If you just singularly focus on that you are missing the overall cost of doing business.

When a company evaluates a buying decision , I.e. software or hardware, the total cost of ownership extends way beyond the cost of that single item (ex. Installation, retraining users, impact from continuing with old vs benefits of new). This is same situation and buyout is a relatively small part of that overall impact. Viewing it otherwise is a naive mgmt position.

That being said, I don’t have the complete picture and impact analysis of both options so I am not opining on which path to take but I expect it will be fully vetted by AD, interim Pres and BOT.

If you bring in a lower priced coach with perceived better upside to take the place of one who was paid very well and failing, many of those factors adding to "total cost of ownership" as shared in your analogy, are offset. It may not be a one-to-one exchange, but could be very close. The easiest thing to do is nothing at all, but I'm pretty sure that isn't leadership.

[RaleighApp27609]

Were there some poor coaching decisions. Yes

Am I renewing my NEZ seats now matter who the coach is ..hell yes.

Some of you sound like celebrities threatening to leave the country if XYZ candidate wins an election.makes me laugh out loud...I guess we can term it .."see ya Ellen's" ..as she is the only one I have heard is actually leaving the country..

I respect your opinion but I respectfully disagree with it. 1) you don’t have to donate to a presidential election to partake in the results. Yosef club members do. 2) most supporters don’t make NEZ money. I’m glad you do, but considering you do, it hurts others a lot more to donate than it does you due to income vs. outgo. 3) most people donate with their heart….if nothing changes, the heart Is gone.

After you donate your vote and lose, you have the cost of moving to whatever country probably more expensive than one year donation for season tickets. Then you have to deal with becoming a citizen in New country. That will take much more time and effort.

Everyone donates with their heart or passion for app. St. Football. I do not think it is fair to paint a broad brush that all in next are silver spoon. It can be a decision on what don't does with discretionary income. They may spend less elsewhere.. my heart is not just as fickle where a few football seasons have have me "relocation to another country". So, yes it makes me chuckle..it is what it is..

Would it take a decade with Clark at the helm before you agree a change is needed?

Has nothing to do with Clark or not being head coach in 2025. It is not my decision. You are making an assumption that I do not care if we win or lose....as they say when you assume ..YOU make an ass out of yourself. If you were to sit beside me in the NEZ, you would see my passion going both ways (happy and mad) and it is intense.
I just think it is short sighted to "give up" and withdraw my funding. That is a definite roadmap for the football program to never return to dominance. Hypothetically, let's say we have 7,500 seat ticket holders. If all 7,500 withdrew funding ..then zero chance that the football program returns to being dominant. Because money and funding are part of the equation.
That leads into another reason I contribute. The student athletes are doing the best that they can no matter who the coaches are and whether the coaches are putting them in the best position to win. Although I do not follow all the player's backgrounds, I do know some that come from lower middle class to lower class backgrounds....Without the athletic opportunity, many of them would not have opportunity to attend college. I hope that they have the best opportunity and experience they can have to get their four year degree...maybe this is due to the fact that their background is similar to my background (my brother and I first in the history of our family to ever attend college).
So, yes, I could be short sighted, suck on a pacifier, and throw a tantrum that I am withholding my funding if app does not terminate it's coach after the 2024....That does nothing but hurt the student athletes as they are getting opportunities they may not otherwise get. So, I view it in the bigger picture and longer term horizon when I think about giving or not giving. The current coach has nothing to do with it as that will change if results are not where expected.

I believe the perception for many on here is that the administration doesn't care about on the field performance if a head coaching change isnt made this week after five years with clark. I would agree with your stance if this were the end of the second season under Clark. But we just finished year five with him and it's going in a negative direction. My personal stance is to move on from clark and start rebuilding the program over the next couple of years.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

So back to the game…we gave it away. Joey Turnover and too many poor coaching decisions. Victory was there for the taking. A winning season and likely bowl bid. Same script , different venue.

Back to the game....Doug needs to have one discussion with Clark. "Help me understand your thought process for not calling a timeout with 2:12 on the clock when we have to have a 3 amd out". There is not an answer that Clark can give. Amd then Doug should say. "I think you are a great guy and I truly believe you gave your all for AppState, but we are going to need more at our head coaching position. I wish you well in your next endeavor ".

"Well I was watching Chicago Bears the other day, and I gotta say, I really liked how the HC worked the play clock. It seemed to work out OK."

[311neers]

https://x.com/groupoffiveguys/status/18 ... 3hJ5cku44g

Sad. From projected to be a Top 3 G5 team to not even finishing in the top 25 G5 teams.

[Pikapp79]

https://x.com/groupoffiveguys/status/18 ... 3hJ5cku44g

Sad. From projected to be a Top 3 G5 team to not even finishing in the top 25 G5 teams.

Not surprised. Trending that way.

[Saint3333]

#19 in the nation in 2019

Tied for 11th in the SBC in 2024

We aren’t on a downward trend…

[AppinVA]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9cQgQIMlwWw

[RaleighApp27609]

#19 in the nation in 2019

Tied for 11th in the SBC in 2024

We aren’t on a downward trend…

But we won 9 and 10 games 3 and 4 years ago!!!!

[ah59396]

https://x.com/groupoffiveguys/status/18 ... 3hJ5cku44g

Sad. From projected to be a Top 3 G5 team to not even finishing in the top 25 G5 teams.

We finished in the bottom half of the Sun Belt (tied for 9th), we are no where near the G5 top 25.

Alternatively ESPN FPI has us now ranked 95th. And here’s how we’ve finished in FPI every season in FBS. Basically crested in ranking where we’d all expect and are now worse than we were when we joined FBS.

2014 - 89th
2015 - 57th
2016 - 54th
2017 - 63rd
2018 - 45th
2019 - 29th
2020 - 39th
2021 - 33rd
2022 - 66th
2023 - 65th
2024 - 95th

[AppSt91]

https://x.com/groupoffiveguys/status/18 ... 3hJ5cku44g

Sad. From projected to be a Top 3 G5 team to not even finishing in the top 25 G5 teams.

We finished in the bottom half of the Sun Belt (tied for 9th), we are no where near the G5 top 25.

Alternatively ESPN FPI has us now ranked 95th. And here’s how we’ve finished in FPI every season in FBS. Basically crested in ranking where we’d all expect and are now worse than we were when we joined FBS.

2014 - 89th
2015 - 57th
2016 - 54th
2017 - 63rd
2018 - 45th
2019 - 29th
2020 - 39th
2021 - 33rd
2022 - 66th
2023 - 65th
2024 - 95th

One more year and we won’t be able to trend down any further, we’ll be at the bottom.

[Bootsy]

My maff skills are subpar, but I’m thinking those recent FPI #’s might look worse in graph form.

[MrCraig]

So back to the game…we gave it away. Joey Turnover and too many poor coaching decisions. Victory was there for the taking. A winning season and likely bowl bid. Same script , different venue.

Back to the game....Doug needs to have one discussion with Clark. "Help me understand your thought process for not calling a timeout with 2:12 on the clock when we have to have a 3 amd out". There is not an answer that Clark can give. Amd then Doug should say. "I think you are a great guy and I truly believe you gave your all for AppState, but we are going to need more at our head coaching position. I wish you well in your next endeavor ".

There are a lot of questions like that you could ask and get the same result. For instance, "How many yards per carry was the team averaging in the first half? (7) So, why did you throw the ball three times on 1st and goal? Then, why did you go for it on 4th down instead of kicking a field goal?"

[AppState89]

https://x.com/groupoffiveguys/status/18 ... 3hJ5cku44g

Sad. From projected to be a Top 3 G5 team to not even finishing in the top 25 G5 teams.

Sad with SH and Jax St are having the year they are having with some FCS players.

[bcoach]

https://x.com/groupoffiveguys/status/18 ... 3hJ5cku44g

Sad. From projected to be a Top 3 G5 team to not even finishing in the top 25 G5 teams.

Look I am not at all happy with where we are. BUT whoever projected us to be top 3 was stoned and we all know it.

[ASUFan4863]

https://x.com/groupoffiveguys/status/18 ... 3hJ5cku44g

Sad. From projected to be a Top 3 G5 team to not even finishing in the top 25 G5 teams.

Look I am not at all happy with where we are. BUT whoever projected us to be top 3 was stoned and we all know it.

Do we all know it? We returned multiple key players. Two freshman all-Americans on defense. Both coordinators. Ended last year 6-1 with a bowl victory. We were primed to win the conference and everyone actually know that. We ALL knew that.

But not the narrative is changing that everyone knew we were actually not that good? Seriously? Give me a break.

[ASUTodd]

My maff skills are subpar, but I’m thinking those recent FPI #’s might look worse in graph form.

Ask and you shall receive....