The cancer on this program is

[Saint3333]

Personally I have not made any of these arguments in favor of Clark - I guess some are just so biased that they don't comprehend

Thank you for the mid-afternoon comic relief!

[BeauFoster]

BEEP BEEP BEEP

That’s the sound of goal posts being moved.

[BambooRdApp]

Beau thank you for such good work. There's not much evidence that Clark is a good coach and no evidence things are getting better. I will go back to the point I made yesterday, these problems are being ignored or excused.

Other than your "opinion" ....which is not a fact...what actual evidence do you have that the problems are being ignored or excused?
The stats post outlines the wins and losses. That does not provide any evidence that the athletics department is not concerned and are not thinking about next steps...
The coach is in year 5. Unless some off field scandal or some internal impropriety by the coach, most coaches are typically given 4 to 6 years to be the coach....
This is not a defense of the coaching staff...this is more of....other than your opinion, what actual knowledge do you have that the athletics department is not currently concerned and thinking about how to make the program better. The answer is not ..they should fire the HC Mid-Year ....as that idea is not going to happen in this situation.

I have never said Clark should be fired. I am saying, the record points to regression in the program. Beau has provided statistics which support that claim. My reading of Clark-supportive comments indicate that his record should be ignored because he is a good guy and an App guy. Or excused because we don't have the financial capacity to do better.

My opinion is, this is what we'll get with Clark. That maybe good enough for some and not good enough for others. I don't think he is going to be fired mid season. I would go as far as guessing that if we can win three of the next five he'll be here next season.

I was not saying that you are saying he should be fired....that me saying that my comments are not about coach being fired, renewed, etc.
Your comment is that the athletics department is that problems are being excused or ignored..... Other than your opinion, what information do you have to say the athletic dept is not concerned and thinking about options. The stats that Beau provided are stats...that provides no insight to athletic dept thoughts, concerns, etc. Seems like your comment is just an opinion and not based upon any intel from the athletic department that they could care less if we win or lose on the football field...that was my point.

[appgrad95&97]

Beau thank you for such good work. There's not much evidence that Clark is a good coach and no evidence things are getting better. I will go back to the point I made yesterday, these problems are being ignored or excused.

Other than your "opinion" ....which is not a fact...what actual evidence do you have that the problems are being ignored or excused?
The stats post outlines the wins and losses. That does not provide any evidence that the athletics department is not concerned and are not thinking about next steps...
The coach is in year 5. Unless some off field scandal or some internal impropriety by the coach, most coaches are typically given 4 to 6 years to be the coach....
This is not a defense of the coaching staff...this is more of....other than your opinion, what actual knowledge do you have that the athletics department is not currently concerned and thinking about how to make the program better. The answer is not ..they should fire the HC Mid-Year ....as that idea is not going to happen in this situation.

I have never said Clark should be fired. I am saying, the record points to regression in the program. Beau has provided statistics which support that claim. My reading of Clark-supportive comments indicate that his record should be ignored because he is a good guy and an App guy. Or excused because we don't have the financial capacity to do better.

My opinion is, this is what we'll get with Clark. That maybe good enough for some and not good enough for others. I don't think he is going to be fired mid season. I would go as far as guessing that if we can win three of the next five he'll be here next season.

I was not saying that you are saying he should be fired....that me saying that my comments are not about coach being fired, renewed, etc.
Your comment is that the athletics department is that problems are being excused or ignored..... Other than your opinion, what information do you have to say the athletic dept is not concerned and thinking about options. The stats that Beau provided are stats...that provides no insight to athletic dept thoughts, concerns, etc. Seems like your comment is just an opinion and not based upon any intel from the athletic department that they could care less if we win or lose on the football field...that was my point.

My opinion is definitely that the AD is the problem. But I was talking about fans making excuses. And for the record, intel from the athletic department that gets shared here is often wrong.

[BambooRdApp]

Beau thank you for such good work. There's not much evidence that Clark is a good coach and no evidence things are getting better. I will go back to the point I made yesterday, these problems are being ignored or excused.

Other than your "opinion" ....which is not a fact...what actual evidence do you have that the problems are being ignored or excused?
The stats post outlines the wins and losses. That does not provide any evidence that the athletics department is not concerned and are not thinking about next steps...
The coach is in year 5. Unless some off field scandal or some internal impropriety by the coach, most coaches are typically given 4 to 6 years to be the coach....
This is not a defense of the coaching staff...this is more of....other than your opinion, what actual knowledge do you have that the athletics department is not currently concerned and thinking about how to make the program better. The answer is not ..they should fire the HC Mid-Year ....as that idea is not going to happen in this situation.

1. Do you mean by the AD or by posters here? We have plenty of evidence of posters here. We don't have any evidence of the AD which is fine.
2. Totally agree here although I think its mostly on the lower end than the higher end. We have more than enough data to decide the future at App State.
3. I'd actually argue that there is a strategic benefit to firing mid year. As has already mentioned this is probably going to be a busy year in the region for coach-finding. Acting first and getting first crack at available coaches might be the right strategic play. Whether we have the available funds is one thing but theres definite strategic value to acting first.

See comments above to other poster. I was commenting on the idea that athletics department is not concerned or excusing it. I see many opinions on the state of football program here, not facts that the AD is not concerned ...This is a social media board ..so basically all opinions..i have not seen someone say .."I had a direct conversation with the AD and others...they think everything is rosy and not concerned with state of the progress of the program"

[appgrad95&97]

Beau thank you for such good work. There's not much evidence that Clark is a good coach and no evidence things are getting better. I will go back to the point I made yesterday, these problems are being ignored or excused.

Other than your "opinion" ....which is not a fact...what actual evidence do you have that the problems are being ignored or excused?
The stats post outlines the wins and losses. That does not provide any evidence that the athletics department is not concerned and are not thinking about next steps...
The coach is in year 5. Unless some off field scandal or some internal impropriety by the coach, most coaches are typically given 4 to 6 years to be the coach....
This is not a defense of the coaching staff...this is more of....other than your opinion, what actual knowledge do you have that the athletics department is not currently concerned and thinking about how to make the program better. The answer is not ..they should fire the HC Mid-Year ....as that idea is not going to happen in this situation.

1. Do you mean by the AD or by posters here? We have plenty of evidence of posters here. We don't have any evidence of the AD which is fine.
2. Totally agree here although I think its mostly on the lower end than the higher end. We have more than enough data to decide the future at App State.
3. I'd actually argue that there is a strategic benefit to firing mid year. As has already mentioned this is probably going to be a busy year in the region for coach-finding. Acting first and getting first crack at available coaches might be the right strategic play. Whether we have the available funds is one thing but theres definite strategic value to acting first.

See comments above to other poster. I was commenting on the idea that athletics department is not concerned or excusing it. I see many opinions on the state of football program here, not facts that the AD is not concerned ...This is a social media board ..so basically all opinions..i have not seen someone say .."I had a direct conversation with the AD and others...they think everything is rosy and not concerned with state of the progress of the program"

Bamboo, on Nov 07, 2022 at 12:58 pm you said:

"East side Tower if anyone is interested... I inquired this morning

You are completely correct regarding the East Tower Club Seating section! At the moment, the construction is planned to finish for this area prior to the 2025 football season."

The fact is, that wasn't true. The fact is 22 months later there is $20 million in soft commitments. That is far from "fully funded". So either you lied or you were lied to. My opinion is the latter.

[BambooRdApp]

Beau thank you for such good work. There's not much evidence that Clark is a good coach and no evidence things are getting better. I will go back to the point I made yesterday, these problems are being ignored or excused.

Other than your "opinion" ....which is not a fact...what actual evidence do you have that the problems are being ignored or excused?
The stats post outlines the wins and losses. That does not provide any evidence that the athletics department is not concerned and are not thinking about next steps...
The coach is in year 5. Unless some off field scandal or some internal impropriety by the coach, most coaches are typically given 4 to 6 years to be the coach....
This is not a defense of the coaching staff...this is more of....other than your opinion, what actual knowledge do you have that the athletics department is not currently concerned and thinking about how to make the program better. The answer is not ..they should fire the HC Mid-Year ....as that idea is not going to happen in this situation.

1. Do you mean by the AD or by posters here? We have plenty of evidence of posters here. We don't have any evidence of the AD which is fine.
2. Totally agree here although I think its mostly on the lower end than the higher end. We have more than enough data to decide the future at App State.
3. I'd actually argue that there is a strategic benefit to firing mid year. As has already mentioned this is probably going to be a busy year in the region for coach-finding. Acting first and getting first crack at available coaches might be the right strategic play. Whether we have the available funds is one thing but theres definite strategic value to acting first.

See comments above to other poster. I was commenting on the idea that athletics department is not concerned or excusing it. I see many opinions on the state of football program here, not facts that the AD is not concerned ...This is a social media board ..so basically all opinions..i have not seen someone say .."I had a direct conversation with the AD and others...they think everything is rosy and not concerned with state of the progress of the program"

Bamboo, on Nov 07, 2022 at 12:58 pm you said:

"East side Tower if anyone is interested... I inquired this morning

You are completely correct regarding the East Tower Club Seating section! At the moment, the construction is planned to finish for this area prior to the 2025 football season."

The fact is, that wasn't true. The fact is 22 months later there is $20 million in soft commitments. That is far from "fully funded". So either you lied or you were lied to. My opinion is the latter.

Nice try on the deflection.
My response on East Side was based on an actual conversation with someone in the athletics. department. And, yes it for not work out as communicated...but it was based upon an actual conversation.
Your opinion on related to athletics department not caring or having excuses. Is based upon your jaded lense of not caring for the AD..not based on any knowledge ...
..big difference..
Come on dude...be a little more intelligent than that response

[appgrad95&97]

Other than your "opinion" ....which is not a fact...what actual evidence do you have that the problems are being ignored or excused?
The stats post outlines the wins and losses. That does not provide any evidence that the athletics department is not concerned and are not thinking about next steps...
The coach is in year 5. Unless some off field scandal or some internal impropriety by the coach, most coaches are typically given 4 to 6 years to be the coach....
This is not a defense of the coaching staff...this is more of....other than your opinion, what actual knowledge do you have that the athletics department is not currently concerned and thinking about how to make the program better. The answer is not ..they should fire the HC Mid-Year ....as that idea is not going to happen in this situation.

1. Do you mean by the AD or by posters here? We have plenty of evidence of posters here. We don't have any evidence of the AD which is fine.
2. Totally agree here although I think its mostly on the lower end than the higher end. We have more than enough data to decide the future at App State.
3. I'd actually argue that there is a strategic benefit to firing mid year. As has already mentioned this is probably going to be a busy year in the region for coach-finding. Acting first and getting first crack at available coaches might be the right strategic play. Whether we have the available funds is one thing but theres definite strategic value to acting first.

See comments above to other poster. I was commenting on the idea that athletics department is not concerned or excusing it. I see many opinions on the state of football program here, not facts that the AD is not concerned ...This is a social media board ..so basically all opinions..i have not seen someone say .."I had a direct conversation with the AD and others...they think everything is rosy and not concerned with state of the progress of the program"

Bamboo, on Nov 07, 2022 at 12:58 pm you said:

"East side Tower if anyone is interested... I inquired this morning

You are completely correct regarding the East Tower Club Seating section! At the moment, the construction is planned to finish for this area prior to the 2025 football season."

The fact is, that wasn't true. The fact is 22 months later there is $20 million in soft commitments. That is far from "fully funded". So either you lied or you were lied to. My opinion is the latter.

Nice try on the deflection.
My response on East Side was based on an actual conversation with someone in the athletics. department. And, yes it for not work out as communicated...but it was based upon an actual conversation.
Your opinion on related to athletics department not caring or having excuses. Is based upon your jaded lense of not caring for the AD..not based on any knowledge ...
..big difference..
Come on dude...be a little more intelligent than that response

So you were told something in a "conversation with someone in the athletics department", which was not true. You proudly shared that inaccurate, inside information. I pointed to facts to support my argument that the East side was not fully funded. And now you're chastising me for not trusting everything that "insiders" say?

[BambooRdApp]

1. Do you mean by the AD or by posters here? We have plenty of evidence of posters here. We don't have any evidence of the AD which is fine.
2. Totally agree here although I think its mostly on the lower end than the higher end. We have more than enough data to decide the future at App State.
3. I'd actually argue that there is a strategic benefit to firing mid year. As has already mentioned this is probably going to be a busy year in the region for coach-finding. Acting first and getting first crack at available coaches might be the right strategic play. Whether we have the available funds is one thing but theres definite strategic value to acting first.

See comments above to other poster. I was commenting on the idea that athletics department is not concerned or excusing it. I see many opinions on the state of football program here, not facts that the AD is not concerned ...This is a social media board ..so basically all opinions..i have not seen someone say .."I had a direct conversation with the AD and others...they think everything is rosy and not concerned with state of the progress of the program"

Bamboo, on Nov 07, 2022 at 12:58 pm you said:

"East side Tower if anyone is interested... I inquired this morning

You are completely correct regarding the East Tower Club Seating section! At the moment, the construction is planned to finish for this area prior to the 2025 football season."

The fact is, that wasn't true. The fact is 22 months later there is $20 million in soft commitments. That is far from "fully funded". So either you lied or you were lied to. My opinion is the latter.

Nice try on the deflection.
My response on East Side was based on an actual conversation with someone in the athletics. department. And, yes it for not work out as communicated...but it was based upon an actual conversation.
Your opinion on related to athletics department not caring or having excuses. Is based upon your jaded lense of not caring for the AD..not based on any knowledge ...
..big difference..
Come on dude...be a little more intelligent than that response

So you were told something in a "conversation with someone in the athletics department", which was not true. You proudly shared that inaccurate, inside information. I pointed to facts to support my argument that the East side was not fully funded. And now you're chastising me for not trusting everything that "insiders" say?

I related what I was communicated. Did not give it any thoughts on being proud or any other type of adjective. Just what I was told..people on YC can take that information and process it as they want ...
The fact is you have had zero conversations with the AD as to whether he has excuses or apathetic to the current state of the football program. Your comment is solely based upon your opinion...and that opinion is jaded due to your dislike on the AD.
More often times than not, people provide a deflection when when the have zero response to the comment being made....

[appgrad95&97]

See comments above to other poster. I was commenting on the idea that athletics department is not concerned or excusing it. I see many opinions on the state of football program here, not facts that the AD is not concerned ...This is a social media board ..so basically all opinions..i have not seen someone say .."I had a direct conversation with the AD and others...they think everything is rosy and not concerned with state of the progress of the program"

Bamboo, on Nov 07, 2022 at 12:58 pm you said:

"East side Tower if anyone is interested... I inquired this morning

You are completely correct regarding the East Tower Club Seating section! At the moment, the construction is planned to finish for this area prior to the 2025 football season."

The fact is, that wasn't true. The fact is 22 months later there is $20 million in soft commitments. That is far from "fully funded". So either you lied or you were lied to. My opinion is the latter.

Nice try on the deflection.
My response on East Side was based on an actual conversation with someone in the athletics. department. And, yes it for not work out as communicated...but it was based upon an actual conversation.
Your opinion on related to athletics department not caring or having excuses. Is based upon your jaded lense of not caring for the AD..not based on any knowledge ...
..big difference..
Come on dude...be a little more intelligent than that response

So you were told something in a "conversation with someone in the athletics department", which was not true. You proudly shared that inaccurate, inside information. I pointed to facts to support my argument that the East side was not fully funded. And now you're chastising me for not trusting everything that "insiders" say?

I related what I was communicated. Did not give it any thoughts on being proud or any other type of adjective. Just what I was told..people on YC can take that information and process it as they want ...
The fact is you have had zero conversations with the AD as to whether he has excuses or apathetic to the current state of the football program. Your comment is solely based upon your opinion...and that opinion is jaded due to your dislike on the AD.
More often times than not, people provide a deflection when when the have zero response to the comment being made....

I simply pointed out that what you were told two years ago was not true. In terms of my opinion of the apathy about our football program, that was informed by watching the Chair of the Board of Trustees comments after the South Alabama loss.

[BambooRdApp]

Bamboo, on Nov 07, 2022 at 12:58 pm you said:

"East side Tower if anyone is interested... I inquired this morning

You are completely correct regarding the East Tower Club Seating section! At the moment, the construction is planned to finish for this area prior to the 2025 football season."

The fact is, that wasn't true. The fact is 22 months later there is $20 million in soft commitments. That is far from "fully funded". So either you lied or you were lied to. My opinion is the latter.

Nice try on the deflection.
My response on East Side was based on an actual conversation with someone in the athletics. department. And, yes it for not work out as communicated...but it was based upon an actual conversation.
Your opinion on related to athletics department not caring or having excuses. Is based upon your jaded lense of not caring for the AD..not based on any knowledge ...
..big difference..
Come on dude...be a little more intelligent than that response

So you were told something in a "conversation with someone in the athletics department", which was not true. You proudly shared that inaccurate, inside information. I pointed to facts to support my argument that the East side was not fully funded. And now you're chastising me for not trusting everything that "insiders" say?

I related what I was communicated. Did not give it any thoughts on being proud or any other type of adjective. Just what I was told..people on YC can take that information and process it as they want ...
The fact is you have had zero conversations with the AD as to whether he has excuses or apathetic to the current state of the football program. Your comment is solely based upon your opinion...and that opinion is jaded due to your dislike on the AD.
More often times than not, people provide a deflection when when the have zero response to the comment being made....

I simply pointed out that what you were told two years ago was not true. In terms of my opinion of the apathy about our football program, that was informed by watching the Chair of the Board of Trustees comments after the South Alabama loss.

You are making your conclusions based upon an open recorded meeting for public viewing...oh, okay....

[appgrad95&97]

Nice try on the deflection.
My response on East Side was based on an actual conversation with someone in the athletics. department. And, yes it for not work out as communicated...but it was based upon an actual conversation.
Your opinion on related to athletics department not caring or having excuses. Is based upon your jaded lense of not caring for the AD..not based on any knowledge ...
..big difference..
Come on dude...be a little more intelligent than that response

So you were told something in a "conversation with someone in the athletics department", which was not true. You proudly shared that inaccurate, inside information. I pointed to facts to support my argument that the East side was not fully funded. And now you're chastising me for not trusting everything that "insiders" say?

I related what I was communicated. Did not give it any thoughts on being proud or any other type of adjective. Just what I was told..people on YC can take that information and process it as they want ...
The fact is you have had zero conversations with the AD as to whether he has excuses or apathetic to the current state of the football program. Your comment is solely based upon your opinion...and that opinion is jaded due to your dislike on the AD.
More often times than not, people provide a deflection when when the have zero response to the comment being made....

I simply pointed out that what you were told two years ago was not true. In terms of my opinion of the apathy about our football program, that was informed by watching the Chair of the Board of Trustees comments after the South Alabama loss.

You are making your conclusions based upon an open recorded meeting for public viewing...oh, okay....

Yes! Just like my points about the East side, I'll take the public record over inside information all day long.

[Bootsy]

Does anyone truly believe Gillin, the Athletics Department and the coaching staff are not concerned about the trajectory of the program? This isn’t the result anyone expected, but it’s hard to believe everyone’s happy over on Jack Branch right now.

I believe everyone involved cares deeply. But caring and being able to effect changes that lead to different results are sometimes mutually exclusive. You can’t change your circumstances, so you play the hand you’ve been dealt to the best of your ability.

A good example: the defensive personnel changes made during the ULL game led to meaningful improvement. The overall effort wasn’t a thing of beauty, but it was better compared to the horror show we witnessed against USA and Marshall.

So, where am I going with all of this? We knew App had some weak links on the defense. Why did it take so long to make adjustments? If Joey continues to struggle, will Clark continue to ride with him instead of trying something that gives us a better chance to improve on offense and (dare I say) win some games?

[Saint3333]

We are riding Joey the rest of the season and I wish him the best. He's got all the talents if we're able to put him in the right position to play within himself and win us games.

[appgrad95&97]

This is from CBS's Will Backus:

"Shawn Clark's seat is getting considerably warm. He inherited a Group of Five gem and has slowly run it into the ground. The Mountaineers have already lost three Sun Belt Conference games, which means that they're two losses away from matching their worst conference record since making the jump to the FBS level; that was when they went 3-5 in 2022, also under Clark."

[Stonewall]

I talked to him , the day after South Ally. He knows what’s at stake.

[BallantyneApp]

This is from CBS's Will Backus:

"Shawn Clark's seat is getting considerably warm. He inherited a Group of Five gem and has slowly run it into the ground. The Mountaineers have already lost three Sun Belt Conference games, which means that they're two losses away from matching their worst conference record since making the jump to the FBS level; that was when they went 3-5 in 2022, also under Clark."

Woof hard to hear an outsiders perspective like that

[ASUFan4863]

It will be better for all parties to separate in December or sooner (preferably). Most of the players want a change anyways is what I hear.

[Pikapp79]

This is from CBS's Will Backus:

"Shawn Clark's seat is getting considerably warm. He inherited a Group of Five gem and has slowly run it into the ground. The Mountaineers have already lost three Sun Belt Conference games, which means that they're two losses away from matching their worst conference record since making the jump to the FBS level; that was when they went 3-5 in 2022, also under Clark."

Spot on

[AppStFan1]

It will be better for all parties to separate in December or sooner (preferably). Most of the players want a change anyways is what I hear.

There are many reasons to wait until the end of the year but I have been thinking the same thing for the last 2-3 weeks. Shawn is a great man and good OL coach and I think it would benefit him to get off the mountain and go back to what he is good at doing. It would benefit us to get a reset from top to bottom on the football side as well. tioning, player personnel, recruiting, and all other support staff. We just need a new direction before we go off into the ditch completely, even if we win 4-5 more to finish the season. I fully expect us to lose 2-3 more games though.