App vs. Western: Will it continue?

[Maddog1956]

Other than maybe golf, I'm not aware of any sports that WCU really "eats our lunch in". I'd say the other series are fairly competitive. They've won some, we've won some, but no mass domination on either side (minus football, of course).

And as I've said before, I don't consider WCU a rival anymore, at all. Don't care about them, don't get worked up when they come to town. I do, however, enjoy razzing their 4 fans.

Eating our lunch might be a little strong, but currently baseball is much higher ranked, their basketball has been better for at least a couple years and you stated golf. The point being I just wanted to remind the folks that think WCU has fallen on such bad times that they are our equals if not superiors on certain sports. If I was a big WCU hater (which I'm not) I would certainly like to have one sport to rub their nose in and I would certainly dislike that the only sports contact we had usually ended up in the lost column for us.

And certainly moving up could help improve our other programs as well, but it still seems to me that if we're going to play an FCS team that it's a win - win for the WCU haters and non-haters alike.

[Blackandgold]

Other than maybe golf, I'm not aware of any sports that WCU really "eats our lunch in". I'd say the other series are fairly competitive. They've won some, we've won some, but no mass domination on either side (minus football, of course).

And as I've said before, I don't consider WCU a rival anymore, at all. Don't care about them, don't get worked up when they come to town. I do, however, enjoy razzing their 4 fans.

Eating our lunch might be a little strong, but currently baseball is much higher ranked, their basketball has been better for at least a couple years and you stated golf. The point being I just wanted to remind the folks that think WCU has fallen on such bad times that they are our equals if not superiors on certain sports. If I was a big WCU hater (which I'm not) I would certainly like to have one sport to rub their nose in and I would certainly dislike that the only sports contact we had usually ended up in the lost column for us.

And certainly moving up could help improve our other programs as well, but it still seems to me that if we're going to play an FCS team that it's a win - win for the WCU haters and non-haters alike.

App and western split 4 game this year. 2-2. App won the one that counted in the tourney. Which denied western an at large bid to NCAA tourney. And "currently" both teams seasons are over. Apps season actually lasted an extra day than westerns. So...

[Blackandgold]

I think that The Battle For The Old Mountain Jug should continue. Move the Jug to Baseball.

I like this idea!

[asumike83]

In baseball, we've split the last 10 games with Western, eliminated them this season and clinched the SoCon on their field a year ago. Historically, they control the all-time series but we have caught up to them on the diamond since hiring Pollard and upgrading the facilities. Based on early results, the future looks promising for the Billy Jones era as well.

In hoops, we have also split the last 10 meeting and App controls the all-time series. We are stronger in track and field, although Western is solid. Wrestling, men's tennis and men's soccer are not sponsored by WCU.

As for the women, we are stronger in volleyball, softball, basketball and tennis.

Western does have some solid programs (golf, T&F, baseball) but as an overall athletic department, it is not particularly close. While we swept both cups, WCU tied for 6th in the Commisioner's Cup and came in 9th in the Germann Cup. A year ago, they were 11th/7th while we were 1st/3rd. We sponsor more sports and still perform much better in the ones that we both sponsor.

Having said that, I do hope the series continues in everything but football. Really nothing to gain for either side and I can't imagine their fans would be happy at the idea of coming to Boone every few years for a "money game". As for the other sports, namely basketball and baseball, we should absolutely continue to play them every year IMO.

[AppStateNews]

The only thing Western was better than us at this year was baseball, men's outdoor track (which we were a close second), and women's indoor and outdoor track.

Technically we were the same as Western head to head in baseball -- split 2-2 and split the basketball matchups. For us to say they are on the same level as us on everything else is not true at all.. Track and field, basketball, and baseball is about as even as it gets for recent years but everything else, we win regularly!

[BeauFoster]

As it relates to football, I don't really want App subsidizing WCUs athletic department with a money game, either. If it happens once in 5 years, so be it. Any more than that and they'd have to put Yosef in the Cantamount Club.

[Maddog1956]

The only thing Western was better than us at this year was baseball, men's outdoor track (which we were a close second), and women's indoor and outdoor track.

Technically we were the same as Western head to head in baseball -- split 2-2 and split the basketball matchups. For us to say they are on the same level as us on everything else is not true at all.. Track and field, basketball, and baseball is about as even as it gets for recent years but everything else, we win regularly!

They rank 57th and we rank 89th in baseball so they "ate our lunch" in what matters. If you take out baseball, men's track and women's indoor and outdoor track and golf what left? Soccer? Best I remember they pretty much match us there as well.

I'm sure there is some sport that they're not on the same level as us (other than football) but I'm really not sure what it is. But the point of my post is that we want bragging rights in at least one sport (football).

[Maddog1956]

As it relates to football, I don't really want App subsidizing WCUs athletic department with a money game, either. If it happens once in 5 years, so be it. Any more than that and they'd have to put Yosef in the Cantamount Club.

If you want to decrease the funds to WCU athletic department hope they play APP, because I'm sure they'll make more playing the other teams on their schedule. Our game would be a pay cut to them. How do you think they pay the scholarships for their other sports, big football paydays from Bama, Auburn, etc.

Actually I was thinking that it might be a saving to APP in both injuries and money by not having to travel.

Now the SEC could limit their teams from doing this in the future but there isn't anything in the works now.

[JTApps1]

I've always said that if we play a FCS opponent every year I'd like for it to be WCU, if they can do better than the $1 million price tag. If they can't give it to another deserving NC team.

I don't see a downside in playing WCU, I think the fans like it, the students like it and it's good for the rivalry in the other sports they they are currently eating our lunch in. Even for the people that hate WCU do they want our only games with them to be the ones that we end up losing? I would think that they would want us to play them in a sport that we should get a win!

What sports would that be? Here are the head to head results for each sport this season.

Men's BB- Split 2 games
Baseball- Split 4 games
Men's XC- ASU Won the SC
Indoor Track- ASU Won the SC
Outdoor Track- WCU Won the SC
Football- ASU Won
Men's Golf- ASU was 4th, WCU was 10th
Women's Tennis- ASU Won only match
Indoor and Outdoor Track- WCU Won both
Volleyball- Split 2 games
Women's BB- ASU Won both games
Women's Golf- ASU was 8th, WCU was 9th
Women's XC- ASU Won the SC
Women's Soccer- ASU Won the only meeting
Softball- ASU Won 2 of 3

ASU came out on top in 10 sports, WCU came out on top in 3 (all track), and we split 3.

[BeauFoster]

They rank 57th and we rank 89th in baseball so they "ate our lunch" in what matters. If you take out baseball, men's track and women's indoor and outdoor track and golf what left? Soccer? Best I remember they pretty much match us there as well.

I'm sure there is some sport that they're not on the same level as us (other than football) but I'm really not sure what it is. But the point of my post is that we want bragging rights in at least one sport (football).

I'd say when neither team makes post-season play (past conference tourney), then head to head is the only real judge between the two. App split head to head this year (and last, I believe), so it's a wash. Track and Field (both indoor/outdoor and men's/women's) are pretty much evenly match with WCU. It's been that way for 10-15 years. They win one year, we win the next - with the other coming in second. Western doesn't field a men's soccer team, so they aren't besting us there. Their women's team is on par with ours - which isn't a terribly great bragging point. Neither of our men's basketball teams have been super the past few seasons, each arguably under performing. Our women's program is moving upwards, while theirs seems to be trending down (since the loss of their coach to NCSU).

What are they hanging their hats on, golf?

[AppStateNews]

They rank 57th and we rank 89th in baseball so they "ate our lunch" in what matters. If you take out baseball, men's track and women's indoor and outdoor track and golf what left? Soccer? Best I remember they pretty much match us there as well.

I'm sure there is some sport that they're not on the same level as us (other than football) but I'm really not sure what it is. But the point of my post is that we want bragging rights in at least one sport (football).

OH! I forgot rankings is all that matters -- not head to head matchups! In that case, we ate Citadels lunch in football this year even though they manhandled us on the gridiron!

So, this past season alone, here are the stats of us against WCU...

2-2 Baseball
2-1 Softball
1-1 Mens Basketball
2-0 Womens Basketball
1-0 Football -- ridiculous record
1-0 Womens Soccer
1-0 Womens Tennis
1-1 Volleyball

So, of these sports, we are 11-5 against Western.. yet, we are on par?

The other sports that don't include head to head matchups that we finished better in are:

We were SoCon Champs for Mens and Womens Cross Country (thus better than Western)
We finished 4th in Men's Golf, Western finished 10th
We finished 8th in Women's Golf, Western Finished 9th
We finished first in Men's Indoor track

Western finished better than us at the following:
Men's Outdoor Track (we finished 3rd, they finished 1st)
Women's Indoor Track (we finished 2nd, they finished 1st)
Women's Outdoor Track (we finished 2nd, they finished 1st)

I know this is just the past year, but it is pretty indicative of the past decade as well. So we go 11-5 in the head to head matchups and have 5 sports in which we finished better (but no head to head matchups). They have three sports in which they finished better (no head to head matchups) -- yet, they are on the same level as us on all sports.. makes sense...

[JTApps1]

They rank 57th and we rank 89th in baseball so they "ate our lunch" in what matters. If you take out baseball, men's track and women's indoor and outdoor track and golf what left? Soccer? Best I remember they pretty much match us there as well.

I'm sure there is some sport that they're not on the same level as us (other than football) but I'm really not sure what it is. But the point of my post is that we want bragging rights in at least one sport (football).

I'd say when neither team makes post-season play (past conference tourney), then head to head is the only real judge between the two. App split head to head this year (and last, I believe), so it's a wash. Track and Field (both indoor/outdoor and men's/women's) are pretty much evenly match with WCU. It's been that way for 10-15 years. They win one year, we win the next - with the other coming in second. Western doesn't field a men's soccer team, so they aren't besting us there. Their women's team is on par with ours - which isn't a terribly great bragging point. Neither of our men's basketball teams have been super the past few seasons, each arguably under performing. Our women's program is moving upwards, while theirs seems to be trending down (since the loss of their coach to NCSU).

What are they hanging their hats on, golf?

Look at the results in my post... we even beat them in both mens and womens golf. No wonder they don't want to play us anymore.

[BeauFoster]

If you want to decrease the funds to WCU athletic department hope they play APP, because I'm sure they'll make more playing the other teams on their schedule. Our game would be a pay cut to them. How do you think they pay the scholarships for their other sports, big football paydays from Bama, Auburn, etc.

Actually I was thinking that it might be a saving to APP in both injuries and money by not having to travel.

Now the SEC could limit their teams from doing this in the future but there isn't anything in the works now.

I don't want to give them a dime.

[AppinVA]

The only thing Western was better than us at this year was baseball, men's outdoor track (which we were a close second), and women's indoor and outdoor track.

Technically we were the same as Western head to head in baseball -- split 2-2 and split the basketball matchups. For us to say they are on the same level as us on everything else is not true at all.. Track and field, basketball, and baseball is about as even as it gets for recent years but everything else, we win regularly!

They rank 57th and we rank 89th in baseball so they "ate our lunch" in what matters. If you take out baseball, men's track and women's indoor and outdoor track and golf what left? Soccer? Best I remember they pretty much match us there as well.

I'm sure there is some sport that they're not on the same level as us (other than football) but I'm really not sure what it is. But the point of my post is that we want bragging rights in at least one sport (football).

We could have a one win season in soccer and still top their record, as they don't sponsor men's soccer.

Try again.

[asumike83]

Western fields 3 less men's sports than App and still finished behind App in 5 of the 7 sports they do sponsor. In one of the sports that they finished ahead of App in the standings, the head-to-head was a split and WCU was eliminated by App in tournament play. There really is no comparison.

[JTApps1]

It looks like Madcat needs to get his facts straight before running his mouth from now on.

[Maddog1956]

I'd say when neither team makes post-season play (past conference tourney), then head to head is the only real judge between the two.

When neither makes post season play, I'd call that pretty equal programs.

Again ties, splits, yearly reverses are all pretty equal to me. With "Cups" we sponsor more sports, but we still did outstanding overall. I'm not taking anything from our students who compete I think they made us proud this year.

It just that to hear people talk we beat them at everything, every year which isn't the case. Overall we usually top them most sports, but then again we have more students.

I'm still looking for that one sport other than football that we beat them every game, every year. Otherwise I'd say we're fairly equal.

[AppStateNews]

When neither makes post season play, I'd call that pretty equal programs.

Again ties, splits, yearly reverses are all pretty equal to me. With "Cups" we sponsor more sports, but we still did outstanding overall. I'm not taking anything from our students who compete I think they made us proud this year.

It just that to hear people talk we beat them at everything, every year which isn't the case. Overall we usually top them most sports, but then again we have more students.

I'm still looking for that one sport other than football that we beat them every game, every year. Otherwise I'd say we're fairly equal.

So now we're equals but just a few posts ago, they ate our lunch.. at least you're heading in the right direction....

[Maddog1956]

It looks like Madcat needs to get his facts straight before running his mouth from now on.

Don't get mad, but I wondered how long you could last without name calling!

[asumike83]

I'm still looking for that one sport other than football that we beat them every game, every year. Otherwise I'd say we're fairly equal.

It is hard to find any series between schools in any sport that has been as one-sided as the last 30 years of App/WCU football. However, there is a very large area in between that and equal, which is where most of our athletic programs lie.