ECU vs APP

[EastHallApp]

Fact check for ECU scheduling G5 peers:

ECU scheduled:

ODU 2018 and 2019 H&H

Marshall 2020 and 2021 H&H

So yes it is the same.

So those are new series, and I think you will fine that most ECU fans were unhappy with those series as well.

ECU fans are unhappy with scheduling Marshall? That's... interesting. I would say Marshall has been the better program over the past two decades (i.e., since they moved up).

ECU is 6-4 against Marshall during that time period, since 2001. 6-3 Against them when they were in C-USA.

Marshall has 4 top 25 finishes since moving up, including one top 10, and two Heisman finalists.

ECU in that same time has zero, zero and zero, respectively.

I don't have a dog in the fight, but I know which record I'd take. You guys do schedule better than them, at least.

[oasispirate]

ECU fans have tons of excuses for the lack of championships, bowl wins, and top 25 finishes. Based on their fans' expectations or feelings of where their program is it must be disappointing.

I will say kudos to their fanbase though, they kill it in attendance and annual giving despite their shortcomings on the field.

We will see what you do with your schedule stepped up this year. I give you a real shot of beating the U. But it can also go the other way, and players can start dropping like flies and turn out to be a disaster. FBS on the higher levels can be a war of a attrition.

[EastHallApp]

I guess it depends on what you want out of your program. If you're happy playing more/tougher P5s and losing at least five games a year, then I'm sure you are pleased. Just wouldn't be my goal.

[Boone Goon]

Oasis, thanks for coming on our board and offering insights into your fan base. We appreciate your perspective and the fact that you recognize we too view our team as a worthy opponent for all FBS teams regardless of G/P5. I want our Mountaineers to play your Pirates any where. And I'm comfortable letting our boys sort out who's the better team.

As for scheduling H&H with other G/P5 programs, I've said before and I'll say again, our biggest hurdle to scheduling success is not our stadium capacity but the proximity of a true commercial airport. No one wants to fly into Charlotte and drove 2+ hours. ...and save the Hickory/Tri-cities responses!

[ASUGoose]

My issues with this "rumor" is:
1. Setting the wrong precedent with giving a peer conference school 2 homes games in comparison to 1 in Boone
2. While the idea of a game in Charlotte sounds great, I'd have concerns of not filling up at least half of the stadium in attendance and the perception that would follow.

I'd rather pass on scheduling ECU rather than setting the wrong precedent going forward!

GO 'NEERS!

[appst89]

My issues with this "rumor" is:
1. Setting the wrong precedent with giving a peer conference school 2 homes games in comparison to 1 in Boone
2. While the idea of a game in Charlotte sounds great, I'd have concerns of not filling up at least half of the stadium in attendance and the perception that would follow.

I'd rather pass on scheduling ECU rather than setting the wrong precedent going forward!

GO 'NEERS!

Agree, especially with #1. We may not be in a position to demand a home-and-home yet, and if we aren't then don't do the deal at all. If we bend over for them, then we're never going to be able to negotiate from a position of strength with anyone again. We should not, under any circumstances, subordinate ourselves to another G5 school.

[Yosef10]

This isn't about Marshall vs. ECU, but ECU isn't better over the last twenty years:

Marshall - 3 AP top 25 finishes, 8 conference titles, 10-2 bowl record
ECU - 0 AP top 25 finishes, 3 conference titles, 3-8 bowl record

Marshall, ECU, and App all are G5 peers - I know that really upsets some pirates out there, but we are.

Back to the topic. Has anyone considered that App not ECU wants the game in Charlotte.

MAC championships? Puhleaze? Their schedules have been weaksauce, that gives you inflated records. We had a 7 win ECU team play an 11 win Boise team and beat that team.

Hell our 6-5 team had no business being in a bowl with a 10-2 Marshall squad in 2001, and we blew a 30 point lead to lose that game in double Overtime. The point is many of these teams have inflated records.

You guys will try and rationalize everything with a damn schedule. Newsflash: you aren't playing Giants. Y'all could barely win CUSA.

Because SOS matters? We won C-USA in 08 & 09. In 2012 we were 7-1 and lost a tiebreaker to UCF, in 2013 6-2 and lose the tiebreaker to Marshall. We have one of the top conference winning %'s in the country the last 10 years.

Look back, we played 11 win SC teams, Florida SEC east champs, beat Va Tech when they were ACC champs (08). I'm not saying we are playing top 5 teams, but our OOC features very few layup wins. Almost all our P5 games have been against bowl level teams.

So you have 2 championships to show for under Skip who left for such greener pastures at...USF. By the way some of you folks talk you would think you've won your conference every year for 15 years and are in the national conversation each year when in reality the only time ECU has been relevate nationally is after beating VT and WVU in back to back weeks. I'm well versed on ECU football and I've still never understood where these delusions of grandeur originated, it must have been the peach bowl win 25 years ago.

[JTApps1]

I'll say it again, I don't have any issue with playing App St, especially if we're going to schedule other Sun Belt, C-USA, and Mac opponents. However, in the past 10 years our OOC schedule has consisted of mostly P5 teams. The only G5s we have scheduled are Navy and BYU who are both national programs. We have had a few FCS in recent years due to unbalanced series with South Carolina and Florida.

When you're fighting for exposure/branding and revenue we need as many P5s as we can get, no one knows what the future holds for college football. Unfortunately everyday is a fight for relevance/survival. We should be playing an exclusively all P5 OOC schedule if at all possible.

05, Duke, WF, and WVU
06, Navy, WVU, UVA, and NCSU
07, VA Tech, UNC, WVU, NCSU
08, VA Tech, WVU, NCSU, UVA
09, App St, WVU, UNC, VA Tech
10, VA Tech, UNC, NCSU, Navy
11, SC, Va Tech, UNC, Navy
12, App St, SC, UNC, Navy
13, ODU, VA Tech, UNC, NCSU
14, NCCU, SC, VA Tech, UNC
15, Towson, Florida, BYU, Va Tech
16, Western Carolina, NCSU, SC, and Va Tech

Most of our fans over the years were already not happy with adding an FCS team over the years. Maybe the reality of our situation has changed and it's forced our hands with the unbalanced SEC series. It doesn't change the fact that adding any G5 to those schedules not named BYU, Boise St, or previously Navy, would be viewed as a downgrade. That's not to say App St, can't play, we all know they can. Unfortunately right now we're fighting for our college football lives.

Our schedule isn't dodging anyone, in fact if we had 2 sure wins OOC like most teams have we would have at minimum 3-4 more double digit win seasons over the last decade.

You are playing an FCS team for the sixth straight year so if you replace that game with us you're improving your schedule regardless of venue. It will also be more difficult to get 3 P5 teams a year with all of those leagues making a push to play more OOC games against other P5's. Besides, it is a bit hypocritical of Pirate fans to expect multiple P5 schools to play ECU and make trips to Greenville, but then balk at the idea of a similar request from an in-state G5 school.

We don't have to go on the road and play an FCS game. The App, ODU, and Marshall series replace what has been a P5 series over the last decade. That's why our fans view it as a downgrade. It's not a slight against those programs. I wouldn't expect App to replace their Miami series with us either lol.

I understand you don't go on the road for FCS games, but would you rather lose a seventh home game 2 times that would have been an FCS, or gain a G5 in place of a team most of your fans careless about? Besides you can still have 3 P5's while playing us, and if you do it properly you'll still have 6 or even 7 home games.

Still it comes down to Pirate fans expecting P5 schools to give you a deal that you don't want to offer to good G5 schools.

We have never played 7 home games. Next year was set to be the first year, but rumors are BYU is moving the game to 2019. Well we can't get that many home games if we're having to take unbalanced series with the SEC.

I guess I looked at your past schedules wrong, because I thought there were several years with 3 OOC home games.

Either way you still haven't answered why Pirate fans want P5's to schedule them for H&H, but you don't want to schedule teams like App and Marshall for the same? You have four OOC openings each year so there is room for both.

I have a lot of respect for your program, but don't forget where you came from and how many schools y'all begged to give you an opportunity. Time to return the favor to others.

[appbio91]

ECU fans have tons of excuses for the lack of championships, bowl wins, and top 25 finishes. Based on their fans' expectations or feelings of where their program is it must be disappointing.

I will say kudos to their fanbase though, they kill it in attendance and annual giving despite their shortcomings on the field.

We will see what you do with your schedule stepped up this year. I give you a real shot of beating the U. But it can also go the other way, and players can start dropping like flies and turn out to be a disaster. FBS on the higher levels can be a war of a attrition.

This I have to agree with. I am really worried about hitting the SB conference schedule banged up. I want a conference championship.

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[oasispirate]

You are playing an FCS team for the sixth straight year so if you replace that game with us you're improving your schedule regardless of venue. It will also be more difficult to get 3 P5 teams a year with all of those leagues making a push to play more OOC games against other P5's. Besides, it is a bit hypocritical of Pirate fans to expect multiple P5 schools to play ECU and make trips to Greenville, but then balk at the idea of a similar request from an in-state G5 school.

We don't have to go on the road and play an FCS game. The App, ODU, and Marshall series replace what has been a P5 series over the last decade. That's why our fans view it as a downgrade. It's not a slight against those programs. I wouldn't expect App to replace their Miami series with us either lol.

I understand you don't go on the road for FCS games, but would you rather lose a seventh home game 2 times that would have been an FCS, or gain a G5 in place of a team most of your fans careless about? Besides you can still have 3 P5's while playing us, and if you do it properly you'll still have 6 or even 7 home games.

Still it comes down to Pirate fans expecting P5 schools to give you a deal that you don't want to offer to good G5 schools.

We have never played 7 home games. Next year was set to be the first year, but rumors are BYU is moving the game to 2019. Well we can't get that many home games if we're having to take unbalanced series with the SEC.

I guess I looked at your past schedules wrong, because I thought there were several years with 3 OOC home games.

Either way you still haven't answered why Pirate fans want P5's to schedule them for H&H, but you don't want to schedule teams like App and Marshall for the same? You have four OOC openings each year so there is room for both.

I have a lot of respect for your program, but don't forget where you came from and how many schools y'all begged to give you an opportunity. Time to return the favor to others.

Because we can get P5s H&H? Because we need to schedule up? Many P5s do not? Why would you date 7 when you can get a 9?

[T-Dog]

Personally, the 2-1-1 isn't ideal and I'm leaning toward "not a good precedent". I understand that the brand has to be built and App has to play teams on bigger pedestals to move higher, but ECU wouldn't do this with a power conference team. Doing this says that App is lesser than ECU, someone we see as a peer.

Also, I remember the Charlotte-Greenville "home and home" in basketball a few years ago. That didn't end up well and didn't benefit App State at all.

I'm fine with an App/ECU game in BoA Stadium as long as there's still six games in Boone that same fall, but not a 2-1-1 with the 2 in Greenville. I'd rather do a 1-1-1.

[appbio91]

By classification the SB and AAC are peers. But in reality? When our conference as a whole steps it up we might be in a better position to bitch about this situation but as others have pointed out unless we get took to the woodshed a game against EZU in Charlotte is a great opportunity for App.

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[CamelCityPirate]

Saw this subject pop up on boneyardbanter. As a Pirate I would love to see this game as a regular home and home series every season. I'm a 2010 alum, but I appreciate this old SoCon rivalry and would like to see it renewed. Lots of similarities between the two programs, and the differences are fun to debate. Here's hoping it's a regular deal.

Go Pirates.

[Appsolutely]

I don't think ECU will ever forget what they had to do (bend over and provide lube) to get State and Carolina to come to Greenville. Even though we are both G5s, they view us the same way the ACC schools viewed them. They want us to pay the proverbial dues, and it gives them a case of the red a$$ that in terms of basic classification, we are equals.

[AppState1]

Please make it a night game in Greenville. Please. Really, please.

[AtlAppMan]

I would love an equal deal with ECU but also realize we are very much still proving ourselves so we may have to take what we can get. On the neutral site, I think it would be great. I am in the heart of UGA country and all I ever hear out of their administration is how important at least one neutral site per year is financially to the school. They say there is no question that they want one per year as the financial return is incomparable. If we are serious about playing big time ball then we need to start working it to our advantage. I am not misguided that we will take home what a SEC school would but it could still be significantly more than either a home or away game. We won't know until details of this deal are exposed but I could see a big win for App if there is a rev split at BOA. We could bus the students down to Charlotte and encourage a wad of alum to attend. It would be huge pub for our up and coming program.

[JTApps1]

We don't have to go on the road and play an FCS game. The App, ODU, and Marshall series replace what has been a P5 series over the last decade. That's why our fans view it as a downgrade. It's not a slight against those programs. I wouldn't expect App to replace their Miami series with us either lol.

I understand you don't go on the road for FCS games, but would you rather lose a seventh home game 2 times that would have been an FCS, or gain a G5 in place of a team most of your fans careless about? Besides you can still have 3 P5's while playing us, and if you do it properly you'll still have 6 or even 7 home games.

Still it comes down to Pirate fans expecting P5 schools to give you a deal that you don't want to offer to good G5 schools.

We have never played 7 home games. Next year was set to be the first year, but rumors are BYU is moving the game to 2019. Well we can't get that many home games if we're having to take unbalanced series with the SEC.

I guess I looked at your past schedules wrong, because I thought there were several years with 3 OOC home games.

Either way you still haven't answered why Pirate fans want P5's to schedule them for H&H, but you don't want to schedule teams like App and Marshall for the same? You have four OOC openings each year so there is room for both.

I have a lot of respect for your program, but don't forget where you came from and how many schools y'all begged to give you an opportunity. Time to return the favor to others.

Because we can get P5s H&H? Because we need to schedule up? Many P5s do not? Why would you date 7 when you can get a 9?

There is room for both. Not wanting to schedule a fellow in-state G5 that is proven program because we aren't Boise is hypocritical. I can understand not wanting to play at UNCC since they haven't won anything, and have zero fan support in football, but App has a long history of success in D1 going back to the 70's. Yes we got ourselves stuck in I-AA/FCS for a long time, but we have climbed out of that hole to become a successful FBS program faster than any team not named Marshall. With the way conferences are getting spread out it's good to have local rivals. Plus it looks like some of those P5 games are drying up for the Pirates based on recent trends outside of VT remaining committed to playing ECU for many years, which is good to see.

[MtnMan09]

Aweful just aweful if this comes true.

How is this awful? A FBS team from the west playing an FBS team from the east, and both teams are in the state of NC. I have wanted this game for years, and the two in Greenville is the price of playing an AAC team or any FBS team for that matter. The game in Charlotte is the right move for the program, if true. This puts us in a the prime seat of recruiting to showcase the university and the program to a broader audience.

I agree with these sentiments. I have wanted this game for a long time. East v. West. I told friends that a neutral site game in Charlotte, with Belk or the like hosting, would do incredible things for recruiting. The place would be rocking lots of both Pirates and Apps in the Charlotte area. AND what else is the kicker? Off these fanbases they probably make more in beer sales than on tickets.

I really don't get all the anger. Youre telling me that instead of taking a FOUR year series with ECU (App-ECU-Neutral-ECU) you think a home and home with UMASS, Wyoming, or Akron is more appealing? Get over yourselves. The only reason people are saying "H and H or nothing" is a misplaced sense of pride.

We will get the chance to play a team that we had a historic rivalry with, and a program that, geographically, is predisposed to once again be one. We know our fans will travel down there. Both Greenville and Charlotte are very doable for the large majority of our alumni. Wyoming and Akron and hell even ODU ARE NOT. No need to cut off our nose to spite our face. All that matters is that the fans show up and that we win more than we lose.

*I'm not advocating this deal for any other G5 program. But the similarities between us and ECU make this series worth pursuing. Whether the naysayers on this thread want to admit it, right now they are above us in the pecking order, they are in a conference we would kill to be in, they play an OOC schedule we would love to have. Lets just beat them.

[appst89]

The only reason people are saying "H and H or nothing" is a misplaced sense of pride.

We will get the chance to play a team that we had a historic rivalry with, and a program that, geographically, is predisposed to once again be one. We know our fans will travel down there. Both Greenville and Charlotte are very doable for the large majority of our alumni. Wyoming and Akron and hell even ODU ARE NOT. No need to cut off our nose to spite our face. All that matters is that the fans show up and that we win more than we lose.

*I'm not advocating this deal for any other G5 program. But the similarities between us and ECU make this series worth pursuing. Whether the naysayers on this thread want to admit it, right now they are above us in the pecking order, they are in a conference we would kill to be in, they play an OOC schedule we would love to have. Lets just beat them.

What we do now affects us for many years down the road. We should not subordinate ourselves to any other G5 school, especially since they have already signed home-and-homes with both Marshall and ODU.

It would be a nice series to have, but not at the cost of selling out to get it.

[MtnMan09]

The only reason people are saying "H and H or nothing" is a misplaced sense of pride.

We will get the chance to play a team that we had a historic rivalry with, and a program that, geographically, is predisposed to once again be one. We know our fans will travel down there. Both Greenville and Charlotte are very doable for the large majority of our alumni. Wyoming and Akron and hell even ODU ARE NOT. No need to cut off our nose to spite our face. All that matters is that the fans show up and that we win more than we lose.

*I'm not advocating this deal for any other G5 program. But the similarities between us and ECU make this series worth pursuing. Whether the naysayers on this thread want to admit it, right now they are above us in the pecking order, they are in a conference we would kill to be in, they play an OOC schedule we would love to have. Lets just beat them.

What we do now affects us for many years down the road. We should not subordinate ourselves to any other G5 school, especially since they have already signed home-and-homes with both Marshall and ODU.

It would be a nice series to have, but not at the cost of selling out to get it.

Selling out because we locked in a FOUR year series with a like-minded, similarly situated, drivable, in-state rival?

What exactly do you mean when you say "subordinate ourselves?" Is that you saying we should be too prideful to work this deal because now we have G5 by our name? Or is your argument that if we were to do this deal, then we would never ever again be able to command home and homes with any other G5 schools? If that is what you are saying, I find that incredibly hard to believe. By your same logic because we were able to get one former P5 national championship winner to do a home and home we should then have also been able to force other former national champions Penn State and UGA to do the same. Gillen is very capable and can explain, and it will be easy to understand, that an arrangement with ECU is unique because of who they are and where they are located. I am not advocating we negotiate this with say Houston or Boise. I am saying that ECU on the schedule for 4 years, no matter what incarnation of scheduling, is more appealing to our fans than home and homes with Wyoming, Akron, UNCC, ODU, or UMASS.