The End? Unions in college sports.

[Maddog1956]

Reminder, "small privates" is dirty terminology to many members of this board. On my part, one of the things, I for one, will miss about the SoCon is that we, for the most part, competed with schools with high academic standards. I fully realize that I'm likely the only one on this board who feels that way.

I didn't mind the high academic standards, but I didn't think it did anything for our program playing schools with 2,000 students either. Also it states a little about "fairness", shouldn't we be able to beat a tiny school.

Having said that however, I don't think it's fair for any school to change their "standard" for sports.

[WVAPPeer]

"I agree 100% about the exact same requirements. "

So are we then assuming that every "regular" college student at just say - UNC - has met the exact same requirement for admission? ---

[Maddog1956]

"I agree 100% about the exact same requirements. "

So are we then assuming that every "regular" college student at just say - UNC - has met the exact same requirement for admission? ---

I doubt if they have, but I think they should at least a certain minimum. I don't mind financial, diversity, etc consideration/assistance but I think they should have to met minimum. Just saying that if a school Ave/min SAT is 1600 (for example) everyone should have to make a 1600 (or whatever criteria they use).

After they met certain standards, I don't mind if the school draws a mixture of students and don't just take the highest scores, but at the same time, if they admit student under certain minimum, how do they expect them to compete. Then it becomes a waste of professors, advisors and their time, plus they get cheated out of a college education they might have been able to handle. Also with public schools it waste taxpayers money and a wasted slot in that school for someone that could have done the work.

Maybe I should have said exact same minimums.

[JCline0429]

Reminder, "small privates" is dirty terminology to many members of this board. On my part, one of the things, I for one, will miss about the SoCon is that we, for the most part, competed with schools with high academic standards. I fully realize that I'm likely the only one on this board who feels that way.

I didn't mind the high academic standards, but I didn't think it did anything for our program playing schools with 2,000 students either. Also it states a little about "fairness", shouldn't we be able to beat a tiny school.

Having said that however, I don't think it's fair for any school to change their "standard" for sports.

2,000 students? Which school had only 2,000 students? Was that Wofford? If so, that would seem unfair to them to be playing us with 17,000 (plus or minus students). Yet they upset us the very week after our historic win over the Michigan Wolverines. As to it not doing us any good to play whichever 2,000 student school you are referring, I imagine that Michigan felt the same way about playing us, especially since we defeated them.

[JCline0429]

"I agree 100% about the exact same requirements. "

So are we then assuming that every "regular" college student at just say - UNC - has met the exact same requirement for admission? ---

WVA, FWIW, I doubt any two students ever have the exact same credentials. Of course, you must have been speaking figuratively.

[bcoach]

I have to laugh about all the riches universities are making off the backs of student athletes. Eliminate student fees from the equation and then tell me how the universities are doing. If we want to talk about fair lets talk fair. Eliminate student fees and let students buy tickets to games they want to attend. That would be fair to the better than half the student population who does not go to the games. Eliminate to big profits that are made off the students backs. I'll bet this gets some people fired up but that is because it is a fact some people don't like to hear about. The athlete is not forced to play but the student is forced to pay. Now I love my football but if we want to talk about what is fair lets tell the whole story.

In a perfect world, all students who are full time, should be allowed in "free" to any and all university athletic events (since they pay mandatory athletic fees) ahead of the big donors, comps, et. al. Just my opinion.

That is my point. They are not getting in free. They are paying more than you and I are. In fact the students who never go to a game are paying more than you and I.

[Maddog1956]

I didn't mind the high academic standards, but I didn't think it did anything for our program playing schools with 2,000 students either. Also it states a little about "fairness", shouldn't we be able to beat a tiny school.

Having said that however, I don't think it's fair for any school to change their "standard" for sports.

2,000 students? Which school had only 2,000 students? Was that Wofford? If so, that would seem unfair to them to be playing us with 17,000 (plus or minus students). Yet they upset us the very week after our historic win over the Michigan Wolverines. As to it not doing us any good to play whichever 2,000 student school you are referring, I imagine that Michigan felt the same way about playing us, especially since we defeated them.[/quote]

Elon, Samford, Furman and Wofford have between 2 - 6k students (I missed it a little I don't check everyday but I think the point is the same), we should win against them because we do have 17k+. Yes they do win against us sometimes and that will happen from time to time. Usually however we're playing 3rd string against one of these schools about every year. Do you really think that our stock goes up when we beat Wofford? That the sporting world stops and whispers "App just beat Wofford"?

Yes Michigan did feel the same way about us. They didn't play us to "build their cred" it was their throw away game. Do you think the sports world was shocked when Michigan got us on their schedule? Would it had been one of the "biggest upset of all time" if they weren't expected to win? (rhetorical question, I know it can't be an upset if expected).

I know there's a question about "does size matter", but not so much in football. Not every successful program comes from a huge schools but more so than not.

I know some of the Sunbelt teams are not household words either, but I think all are better known than all of what's left in the FCS.

[JCline0429]

I have to laugh about all the riches universities are making off the backs of student athletes. Eliminate student fees from the equation and then tell me how the universities are doing. If we want to talk about fair lets talk fair. Eliminate student fees and let students buy tickets to games they want to attend. That would be fair to the better than half the student population who does not go to the games. Eliminate to big profits that are made off the students backs. I'll bet this gets some people fired up but that is because it is a fact some people don't like to hear about. The athlete is not forced to play but the student is forced to pay. Now I love my football but if we want to talk about what is fair lets tell the whole story.

In a perfect world, all students who are full time, should be allowed in "free" to any and all university athletic events (since they pay mandatory athletic fees) ahead of the big donors, comps, et. al. Just my opinion.

That is my point. They are not getting in free. They are paying more than you and I are. In fact the students who never go to a game are paying more than you and I.

I have been saying that all along and never got one reply in support..

[bcoach]

"The NBA says you must be 19 to enter their draft, so kids go to school for one year and then bolt for the NBA."

This is true and it had to ratified by the NBA players union that was at first against any such requirement. To carry it one step further, the new NBA commish would like to change this rule to a 2 year and 20 year old requirement. Again I believe any change would have to be approved by the players union.

I used to be in favor of that but no longer am. I think if they want to go straight to the pros let them go. They are using the university for a year or two so they can go pro. They are taking up a spot that could go to a student who want's an education.

[bcoach]

I have to laugh about all the riches universities are making off the backs of student athletes. Eliminate student fees from the equation and then tell me how the universities are doing. If we want to talk about fair lets talk fair. Eliminate student fees and let students buy tickets to games they want to attend. That would be fair to the better than half the student population who does not go to the games. Eliminate to big profits that are made off the students backs. I'll bet this gets some people fired up but that is because it is a fact some people don't like to hear about. The athlete is not forced to play but the student is forced to pay. Now I love my football but if we want to talk about what is fair lets tell the whole story.

In a perfect world, all students who are full time, should be allowed in "free" to any and all university athletic events (since they pay mandatory athletic fees) ahead of the big donors, comps, et. al. Just my opinion.

That is my point. They are not getting in free. They are paying more than you and I are. In fact the students who never go to a game are paying more than you and I.

I have been saying that all along and never got one reply in support..

Sorry you missed it. I have made the statement before. I totally agree. It is a shame that they incur student debt to support my entertainment. For those who have said that mommy and daddy pay the same goes. I don't pay for their daddy to play golf and he should not pay for my football.

[bcoach]

I didn't mind the high academic standards, but I didn't think it did anything for our program playing schools with 2,000 students either. Also it states a little about "fairness", shouldn't we be able to beat a tiny school.

Having said that however, I don't think it's fair for any school to change their "standard" for sports.

2,000 students? Which school had only 2,000 students? Was that Wofford? If so, that would seem unfair to them to be playing us with 17,000 (plus or minus students). Yet they upset us the very week after our historic win over the Michigan Wolverines. As to it not doing us any good to play whichever 2,000 student school you are referring, I imagine that Michigan felt the same way about playing us, especially since we defeated them.

Elon, Samford, Furman and Wofford have between 2 - 6k students (I missed it a little I don't check everyday but I think the point is the same), we should win against them because we do have 17k+. Yes they do win against us sometimes and that will happen from time to time. Usually however we're playing 3rd string against one of these schools about every year. Do you really think that our stock goes up when we beat Wofford? That the sporting world stops and whispers "App just beat Wofford"?

Yes Michigan did feel the same way about us. They didn't play us to "build their cred" it was their throw away game. Do you think the sports world was shocked when Michigan got us on their schedule? Would it had been one of the "biggest upset of all time" if they weren't expected to win? (rhetorical question, I know it can't be an upset if expected).

I know there's a question about "does size matter", but not so much in football. Not every successful program comes from a huge schools but more so than not.

I know some of the Sunbelt teams are not household words either, but I think all are better known than all of what's left in the FCS.[/quote]
That is correct. Only 11 guys can get on the field at a time. ( well without a penalty )

[eggers76]

I think 2 and 20 is better than what is in place now because it at least makes the student/athlete concept a tad more valid. One and done's technically never have to go to a class second semester if they know they are leaving.

I believe the way baseball handles the process is better still. Either don't go to college at all or if you enroll in a four year school, you have to stay at least three years. But of course baseball has a long proven minor league system to train the young athletes and get them prepared for the big leagues. There is the NBDL for basketball and maybe this would be a good place to prepare the young players that choose not to attend college.

[WVAPPeer]

"I agree 100% about the exact same requirements. "

So are we then assuming that every "regular" college student at just say - UNC - has met the exact same requirement for admission? ---

I doubt if they have, but I think they should at least a certain minimum. I don't mind financial, diversity, etc consideration/assistance but I think they should have to met minimum. Just saying that if a school Ave/min SAT is 1600 (for example) everyone should have to make a 1600 (or whatever criteria they use).

After they met certain standards, I don't mind if the school draws a mixture of students and don't just take the highest scores, but at the same time, if they admit student under certain minimum, how do they expect them to compete. Then it becomes a waste of professors, advisors and their time, plus they get cheated out of a college education they might have been able to handle. Also with public schools it waste taxpayers money and a wasted slot in that school for someone that could have done the work.

Maybe I should have said exact same minimums.

Yeah, that is closer to what it should be --- my reference above was more to who someone's daddy is and not to diversity - diversity is a must in a college environment ---

[WVAPPeer]

"I agree 100% about the exact same requirements. "

So are we then assuming that every "regular" college student at just say - UNC - has met the exact same requirement for admission? ---

WVA, FWIW, I doubt any two students ever have the exact same credentials. Of course, you must have been speaking figuratively.

Yeah I know - I was replying to someone else's statement about the exact requirements to which has been amended to "same minimal requirements" ---

[Maddog1956]

Yeah, that is closer to what it should be --- my reference above was more to who someone's daddy is and not to diversity - diversity is a must in a college environment ---

Sadly that will always be there, but hopefully over a minimum.

[appdaze]

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/ ... d-congress


"Imagine a university's basketball players striking before a Sweet 16 game demanding shorter practices, bigger dorm rooms, better food and no classes before 11 a.m.," he said. "This is an absurd decision that will destroy intercollegiate athletics as we know it."