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Devonte Graham

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firemoose
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Re: Devonte Graham

Unread post by firemoose » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:32 pm

app123 wrote:AND GRAHAM STILL HASN'T BEEN RELEASED :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

http://ilprepbullseye.com/Walker_Release.html

BOOMERANG @Yosef_killa :?: :?: :?: :?: Is that you :?: :?: :?:

BOOMERANG ‏@Yosef_killa
@jeffborzello @jeffisenberg @garnerroad @dewannaking Amazing how some ppl do whats right, and capel holds #hostages

http://ilprepbullseye.com/Walker_Release.html

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Over the past week, 6 schools have visited Brewster to watch point guard @im_dat_kid_dtae. #AppState has refused to release.

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@joibell @KedrickFlomo_12 #hostage takers will get theirs # freedtae #karma

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Re: Devonte Graham

Unread post by T-Dog » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:40 pm

When a gunman enters a business, threatens to kill people and then holds them at gunpoint when the police arrive, that's a hostage.

When someone signs a contract and refuses to honor the agreement and is held under the terms of it, that's not a hostage.

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Re: Devonte Graham

Unread post by appst89 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:46 pm

And the lesson here is: If your word is worthless you should think twice about signing a binding contract.

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Re: Devonte Graham

Unread post by moehler » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:59 pm

there is alot of stupid things the men's basketball program has done thru the years, but they got this one right, let him sit, for once in a long time I'm proud of the program.

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Re: Devonte Graham

Unread post by T-Dog » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:35 pm

Agreed. I will be glad once Capel is fired after this year for his results on the court and in the classroom as he hasn't produced results in a result-driven business. However on this issue I support his decision 100%.

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Re: Devonte Graham

Unread post by Maddog1956 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:58 pm

T-Dog wrote:When a gunman enters a business, threatens to kill people and then holds them at gunpoint when the police arrive, that's a hostage.

When someone signs a contract and refuses to honor the agreement and is held under the terms of it, that's not a hostage.
Not even a victim!
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Re: Devonte Graham

Unread post by Rekdiver » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:21 am

Two things excite me about the end of this season:

1. Capel is fired
2. I don't have to hear any more from Graham's handlers.

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Re: Devonte Graham

Unread post by ggasu » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:36 pm

I am sick of all the Graham lovers bad mouthing App. I say sign Capel for one more year so Devonte can't get a release.

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Re: Devonte Graham

Unread post by Goapps15 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:09 pm

ggasu wrote:I am sick of all the Graham lovers bad mouthing App. I say sign Capel for one more year so Devonte can't get a release.
Even if Capel goes Devonte is not released. Graham signed his LOI with Appalachian State. On said LOI's for any D1 bound athlete, it specifically states you are bound to the university not a coach or coaching staff.

This story drives me bonkers. AAU and some high school coaches give these kids the wrong advice. In this instant it was his AAU coach who gave him a big head and has been the main one fueling this #hostage BS. I hope we force him to come to Boone and make him stay. If he transfers after a year fantastic and if not it is good as well.

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Re: Devonte Graham

Unread post by BeauFoster » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:23 pm

Goapps15 wrote: This story drives me bonkers. AAU and some high school coaches give these kids the wrong advice. In this instant it was his AAU coach who gave him a big head and has been the main one fueling this #hostage BS. I hope we force him to come to Boone and make him stay. If he transfers after a year fantastic and if not it is good as well.
Well said. His AAU coach obviously has little to no class and honor, or he'd be trying to teach this young man that the only thing he has is his word and that he should stick to it. But instead, he has filled his head with nothing but bad advice. I hope my daughter never ends up with such a coach.

I'd like to ask Devontae why he doesn't believe in keeping his word. Why does he think he is the one being treated unfairly? He made a COMMITMENT. That should mean something to him, but obviously doesn't. Here's hoping he's never really held hostage.
Give 'em hell!

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Re: Devonte Graham

Unread post by ASUPATCH » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:57 am

Maybe the twitter verse should start something called #learnwhatcontractmeansdevonte
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Re: Devonte Graham

Unread post by appgrunt71 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:18 pm

Teach the kid a lesson, then send him on his way to pursue his life.

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Re: Devonte Graham

Unread post by WataugaMan » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:37 pm

appgrunt71 wrote:Teach the kid a lesson, then send him on his way to pursue his life.
A couple semesters of Business Law might help.

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Re: Devonte Graham

Unread post by wataugan03 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:24 pm

WataugaMan wrote:
appgrunt71 wrote:Teach the kid a lesson, then send him on his way to pursue his life.
A couple semesters of Business Law might help.
Not really. Its perfectly legal to back out of most contracts - companies, employees, and employers do it all the time. Universities regularly do it when they fire coaches; and coaches do it when they bolt for new jobs. The other party's remedy is their expectation damages minus reasonable efforts to mitigate. The expectation damages of one year (scholarships only last a year) of Devonte minus the expectations we have for the best player we can find to replace him is pretty close to $0; the University would never sue for it. This situation is unique because the NCAA is allowed to operate as a cartel that restrains labor by putting what would otherwise be unenforceable non-competition clauses in every contract.

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Re: Devonte Graham

Unread post by bcoach » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:22 pm

wataugan03 wrote:
WataugaMan wrote:
appgrunt71 wrote:Teach the kid a lesson, then send him on his way to pursue his life.
A couple semesters of Business Law might help.
Not really. Its perfectly legal to back out of most contracts - companies, employees, and employers do it all the time. Universities regularly do it when they fire coaches; and coaches do it when they bolt for new jobs. The other party's remedy is their expectation damages minus reasonable efforts to mitigate. The expectation damages of one year (scholarships only last a year) of Devonte minus the expectations we have for the best player we can find to replace him is pretty close to $0; the University would never sue for it. This situation is unique because the NCAA is allowed to operate as a cartel that restrains labor by putting what would otherwise be unenforceable non-competition clauses in every contract.
That would depend on how the contract is written. You can't simply say it is perfectly legal without knowing there is an exit clause. A lot of people and companies doing something does not make it legal.

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Re: Devonte Graham

Unread post by wataugan03 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:59 pm

Its well within anyone's rights to break a contract, regardless of whether there is an exit clause. And there are no consequences other than paying the other side their expectation damages minus their obligation to mitigate (all an exit clause does is attempt to define this number in advance). You cannot be jailed or fined for breaking a contract and you can't be forced to pay punitive damages. You just have to make the other side whole. It might be morally questionable, but its certainly legal. The most common explanation for this is the theory of efficient breach: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficient_breach.

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Re: Devonte Graham

Unread post by asu66 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:20 pm

wataugan03 wrote:Its well within anyone's rights to break a contract, regardless of whether there is an exit clause. And there are no consequences other than paying the other side their expectation damages minus their obligation to mitigate (all an exit clause does is attempt to define this number in advance). You cannot be jailed or fined for breaking a contract and you can't be forced to pay punitive damages. You just have to make the other side whole. It might be morally questionable, but its certainly legal. The most common explanation for this is the theory of efficient breach: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficient_breach.
You just have to make the other side whole.
And just how, pray tell, does a relatively penniless, aspiring college freshman do that?
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Re: Devonte Graham

Unread post by bcoach » Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:23 pm

wataugan03 wrote:Its well within anyone's rights to break a contract, regardless of whether there is an exit clause. And there are no consequences other than paying the other side their expectation damages minus their obligation to mitigate (all an exit clause does is attempt to define this number in advance). You cannot be jailed or fined for breaking a contract and you can't be forced to pay punitive damages. You just have to make the other side whole. It might be morally questionable, but its certainly legal. The most common explanation for this is the theory of efficient breach: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficient_breach.
Well you would be correct about that. I would substitute enforceable for legal, which I should have done. What we are doing is enforcing our contract with the young man.

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Re: Devonte Graham

Unread post by Maddog1956 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:28 pm

The LOI is only binding in the for NLI schools, I don't even think it's a contract. It's just like me saying you can come play at my house as long as you follow my rules. If you decide not to follow my rules you can leave... no damages... no made whole...just leave.


What is the National Letter of Intent (NLI)?

The NLI is a binding agreement between a prospective student-athlete and an NLI member institution

A prospective student-athlete agrees to attend the institution full-time for one academic year (two semesters or three quarters).
The institution agrees to provide athletics financial aid for one academic year (two semesters or three quarters).
Basic penalty for not fulfilling the NLI agreement: A student-athlete has to serve one year in residence (full-time, two semesters or three quarters) at the next NLI member institution and lose one season of competition in all sports.
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Re: Devonte Graham

Unread post by wataugan03 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:27 pm

asu66 wrote:
wataugan03 wrote:Its well within anyone's rights to break a contract, regardless of whether there is an exit clause. And there are no consequences other than paying the other side their expectation damages minus their obligation to mitigate (all an exit clause does is attempt to define this number in advance). You cannot be jailed or fined for breaking a contract and you can't be forced to pay punitive damages. You just have to make the other side whole. It might be morally questionable, but its certainly legal. The most common explanation for this is the theory of efficient breach: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficient_breach.
You just have to make the other side whole.
And just how, pray tell, does a relatively penniless, aspiring college freshman do that?
We're getting pretty theoretical here. But, assuming a world where the NCAA doesn't exist and App could only enforce its rights in court:

First, whether the breacher can pay the damages does not alter the breacher's right to breach. The institution can get a judgment, but if the breacher is to broke to pay all you can do is garnish a portion of their future wages - they might get out of the debt all together through bankrputcy. The breach might not be a good idea, but there's no law preventing it, no potential punishment.

Second, the damages would probably be so small the school would never even bother to enforce its rights. Let's pretend Devonte's services for his freshmen year are expected to be worth 3k (determining this number would be the largest and most expensive aspect of litigation and settlement negotiations). Devonte wouldn't owe 3k. he would owe 3k minus the expected worth of the best player we can get to replace him if with reasonable efforts. If we pretend that player's value is 2k then Devonte owes 1k.

If all this sounds absurd in this context, its because it is absurd. This is amateur athletics. App Basketball isn't going to make money. The value of in-kind services it gives players is worth more than what they bring to the table. The player's compensation isn't taxable income. The NCAA operates as a cartel with regulating powers the federal government doesn't even have. The transfer sit-out rule is an overly broad, non-negotiable non-competition clause that would not be legally enforceable in an employment context. There probably aren't any business lessons here. There certainly aren't any contract law lessons.

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