Haven't seen this posted; so here goes...

[JTApps1]

one of the hardest things to get is an accurate number of a schools athletic revenue/expense budget. Schools are allowed to be "creative" with their accounting, and can make numbers appear a lot better than they actually are. Not saying UNCC is doing anything wrong, but all this confusion about how much they raised thru their athletic club, supports this.

Agreed, and many schools count different funding different than other schools so it is very hard to get apples to apples. I don't think there is really a "right" or "wrong" way, just different ways and I assume as long as your one way is consistent then it fits the accounting needs at each individual school.

App has also had a huge advantage over us in ticket sales. While we won't have 30,000 off the bat our ticket sales revenue will jump from 500,000 to over 1.5M. For me what I look at when I see the numbers is we have done relatively well considering that we didn't have football and our marquee sport has not been to the NCAAs since 2005. For us to see the continued giving and budget that we have points to a bright future.

Gonzo and others keep saying we have such a small fan base and no one cares - so if this is what our small fan base without anyone caring can do, well then if football is successful in turning some non-fans into fans then we have quiet a large population of alums that could turn these numbers into something big.

At this point I'd say it is hard to judge what the size of the fan base will be for 49er football. Obviously the stadium will be packed this year with the excitement of a new program, but let's see what it looks like a few years down the road. I'm not saying it will be bad or great at that point because it's impossible to say. The one huge advantage UNCC has is corporate support from Charlotte businesses. That alone makes it difficult to say the actual fan base is X amount of fans. We all know corporations making donations (not saying that's all you have) doesn't equal fans in the stands long term.

[NWA49]

one of the hardest things to get is an accurate number of a schools athletic revenue/expense budget. Schools are allowed to be "creative" with their accounting, and can make numbers appear a lot better than they actually are. Not saying UNCC is doing anything wrong, but all this confusion about how much they raised thru their athletic club, supports this.

Agreed, and many schools count different funding different than other schools so it is very hard to get apples to apples. I don't think there is really a "right" or "wrong" way, just different ways and I assume as long as your one way is consistent then it fits the accounting needs at each individual school.

App has also had a huge advantage over us in ticket sales. While we won't have 30,000 off the bat our ticket sales revenue will jump from 500,000 to over 1.5M. For me what I look at when I see the numbers is we have done relatively well considering that we didn't have football and our marquee sport has not been to the NCAAs since 2005. For us to see the continued giving and budget that we have points to a bright future.

Gonzo and others keep saying we have such a small fan base and no one cares - so if this is what our small fan base without anyone caring can do, well then if football is successful in turning some non-fans into fans then we have quiet a large population of alums that could turn these numbers into something big.

At this point I'd say it is hard to judge what the size of the fan base will be for 49er football. Obviously the stadium will be packed this year with the excitement of a new program, but let's see what it looks like a few years down the road. I'm not saying it will be bad or great at that point because it's impossible to say. The one huge advantage UNCC has is corporate support from Charlotte businesses. That alone makes it difficult to say the actual fan base is X amount of fans. We all know corporations making donations (not saying that's all you have) doesn't equal fans in the stands long term.

Agreed - long term we will see how it plays out. Our core that we have this year will most likely stay as we all had to pay at least $1,000 ($2500 between the 40s) just for the right to buy season tickets and if we don't we lose that investment. Those seats all also have a min club donations tied to them. I personally have 3 seats and don't want to throw 3 grand down the drain even if it is after a few poor seasons. With the growing student body I expect that we will see them using most of their seats as well. With some of our CUSA opponents, what few tickets are left will be taken up with visiting fans. The real question will be do we expand to 25k or 30k (by 2015 as rumored) and if we do can we consistently put butts in those seats. To me that is the real question. Unlike so many Charlotte or App fans I am not willing to say it will or won't happen. To me that is the great unknown. Football is powerful and college football is more than just about winning, but you have to deliver a good experience at the games and while you don't have to win every game you have to win your fair share. Only time will tell how this thing plays out.

[Saint3333]

You are changing the parameters of the original question. Yosef Club vs. 49er Club, that is apples to apples, either you don't have the information or you just don't like the results.

It is based on how each club is reporting their numbers. You want to compare with how we report ours with how you report yours, that is fine. All I am saying is that I don't know what goes into ours or yours. I have no idea if that is based on the same giving parameters. You want to use that as comparison - knock yourself out.

Man you are intent on making this complicated, when your answer should be "I don't know". Ours is real simple, cash received is how we count it.

Come back to the discussion when you have some facts.

[NWA49]

You are changing the parameters of the original question. Yosef Club vs. 49er Club, that is apples to apples, either you don't have the information or you just don't like the results.

It is based on how each club is reporting their numbers. You want to compare with how we report ours with how you report yours, that is fine. All I am saying is that I don't know what goes into ours or yours. I have no idea if that is based on the same giving parameters. You want to use that as comparison - knock yourself out.

Man you are intent on making this complicated, when your answer should be "I don't know". Ours is real simple, cash received is how we count it.

Come back to the discussion when you have some facts.

Pretty sure I said that above. Bolded it in case you missed it. I presented the facts I had with the total contributions. To me this more relevant since I don't know, for a fact, how either club or AD is counting how money comes in. Like I said though if you want to tout that number, go ahead. No biggie. My only goal was to make sure that the number being used relative to how much money is coming into the program was correct.

[Saint3333]

I've yet to see any support for your numbers. Based on the conversation so far I will remain skeptical that you know what you're talking about.

[NWA49]

I've yet to see any support for your numbers. Based on the conversation so far I will remain skeptical that you know what you're talking about.

I provided the link the the USA Today site that shows contributions and expenses for us as well as other schools. If you don't take that as facts then I am not sure what to tell ya.

[BeauFoster]

I provided the link the the USA Today site that shows contributions and expenses for us as well as other schools. If you don't take that as facts then I am not sure what to tell ya.

You've provided a link to total athletic department expenditures and revenues, not booster funds raised. That's the question at hand. How many dollars did the 49er club (or whatever it is called) raise in the most recent fiscal year available?

[appst89]

I've yet to see any support for your numbers. Based on the conversation so far I will remain skeptical that you know what you're talking about.

I provided the link the the USA Today site that shows contributions and expenses for us as well as other schools. If you don't take that as facts then I am not sure what to tell ya.

That USA Today chart has almost nothing to do with contributions. It shows total athletic department revenues (which do include contributions to booster clubs) and expenses along with a third column showing the amount of institutional subsidy required to meet those expenses. UNCC is getting 89% of their athletic budget from student fees, so of the approximately $20 million in revenue reported on that site, about $17.8 million is coming from institutional subsidies.

[Appsolutely]

I've yet to see any support for your numbers. Based on the conversation so far I will remain skeptical that you know what you're talking about.

I provided the link the the USA Today site that shows contributions and expenses for us as well as other schools. If you don't take that as facts then I am not sure what to tell ya.

That USA Today chart has almost nothing to do with contributions. It shows total athletic department revenues (which do include contributions to booster clubs) and expenses along with a third column showing the amount of institutional subsidy required to meet those expenses. UNCC is getting 89% of their athletic budget from student fees, so of the approximately $20 million in revenue reported on that site, about $17.8 million is coming from institutional subsidies.

Thanks for doing the analysis that our visitor is evidently not equipped to handle.

[NWA49]

I provided the link the the USA Today site that shows contributions and expenses for us as well as other schools. If you don't take that as facts then I am not sure what to tell ya.

You've provided a link to total athletic department expenditures and revenues, not booster funds raised. That's the question at hand. How many dollars did the 49er club (or whatever it is called) raise in the most recent fiscal year available?

I am well aware of what the site is saying and that is exactly what I intended to do. Someone here posted what our most recent club giving was. I don't have the fiscal report handy, it is at home buried somewhere. On top of that I am not sure how they are calculating what is included in the club giving and what is not.

My point was posting the total is more relevant because it includes everything coming into the program. That to me is far more important.

I didn't mean to make this a pissing contest. Only that that statement made made it appear that we can't raise money, which is untrue as proven by the USA Today site.

The 2012 numbers are wrong according to our AD and it is not 89%, they said they would have it corrected, but it has not been changed. I have no idea what the adjusted numbers show, only that when contacted our AD said it was not close to that 89% and it was inline with peer institutions.

[Saint3333]

The next time you'd like to have a discussion about comparing numbers do your research and come prepared with support for your statements.

This reminds me of a quote from Billy Madison:

[NWA49]

The next time you'd like to have a discussion about comparing numbers do your research and come prepared with support for your statements.

How was I not prepared? Someone here said we raised 3 million. I said congrats we have done that a few times and I provided a link to our contributions which have exceeded 3 million on multiple occasions.

You and a few others were the ones getting all bent out of shape with the club vs. club stuff. To which I said I don't know what goes into our club giving or yours, what they count and what they don't and that I consider total contribution more relevant anyway. If you want to keep harping on the club numbers go ahead.

[Gonzo]

The next time you'd like to have a discussion about comparing numbers do your research and come prepared with support for your statements.

This reminds me of a quote from Billy Madison:

Ignorance is the lifeblood of UNC Charlotte fanship. Without the former, the later could not exist.

[firemoose]

In our last 5 or 6 years we have had years where we raised 5.7 mil, 5.2, 4.1 and a few over 3 - so congrats on raising over 3? We were raising that WITHOUT the most popular sport in the nation. Think about that for just a second.

Come on NWA. You started this whole thing with your snide little comment (I've bolded it for you, just in case you forgot). Then you start this whole song and dance about apples to apples and apples to oranges when this post was clearly a reply to a post about booster club money. And you say people on here are getting all bent out of shape. Don't try and play games. You'll notice that this is my first post in this. That's because, frankly, I couldn't care less about UNCC. You are not some high and mighty school that has me shaking in my boots. You are just another school we have and will compete against on and off the field. Many fall into that catagory. But if you want to play the intelligence game then you better be prepared.

[ASU-FTW]

Seems like Judy just likes to claim the numbers are wrong but won't disclose the correct info. Sounds credible.

[JMappfan5]

I really don't care how much money UNC-Commuter raises or how many fans attend their games. I wish them well. I don't think we should even think about playing them for at least 5 years. Then we can attempt to develop some type of rivalry. I would rather see Army/Navy/Air Force/Marshall/ECU/or any MAC school come to Boone than UNCC!!!

[Saint3333]

Oh now you're the victim.

You haven't supported anything other than saying those numbers are wrong, with no sense of what the number really is.

I don't make it a habit of throwing numbers around without support, try it, it will save all of us time.

[fjblair]

I am well aware of what the site is saying and that is exactly what I intended to do. Someone here posted what our most recent club giving was. I don't have the fiscal report handy, it is at home buried somewhere. On top of that I am not sure how they are calculating what is included in the club giving and what is not.

My point was posting the total is more relevant because it includes everything coming into the program. That to me is far more important.

I didn't mean to make this a pissing contest. Only that that statement made made it appear that we can't raise money, which is untrue as proven by the USA Today site.

The 2012 numbers are wrong according to our AD and it is not 89%, they said they would have it corrected, but it has not been changed. I have no idea what the adjusted numbers show, only that when contacted our AD said it was not close to that 89% and it was inline with peer institutions.

Collecting student fees is not raising money.

Doesn't the % of subsidies make a huge statement about the support of the fan base?

[NWA49]

I am well aware of what the site is saying and that is exactly what I intended to do. Someone here posted what our most recent club giving was. I don't have the fiscal report handy, it is at home buried somewhere. On top of that I am not sure how they are calculating what is included in the club giving and what is not.

My point was posting the total is more relevant because it includes everything coming into the program. That to me is far more important.

I didn't mean to make this a pissing contest. Only that that statement made made it appear that we can't raise money, which is untrue as proven by the USA Today site.

The 2012 numbers are wrong according to our AD and it is not 89%, they said they would have it corrected, but it has not been changed. I have no idea what the adjusted numbers show, only that when contacted our AD said it was not close to that 89% and it was inline with peer institutions.

Collecting student fees is not raising money.

Doesn't the % of subsidies make a huge statement about the support of the fan base?

The student fees are not included in the total contributions, but are included in total revenue just like App's is. As I said we contacted our AD and they said the 2012 numbers are incorrect, no idea what the correct numbers are, but given the money coming in from football even the rough conservative estimate would indicate that they number listed is way low, which would of course lower the % of the student subsidy of the total revenue.

Anyway - good luck guys. With the season about to start for both us seems like we have better things to bicker about with teams we will actually be playing. I look forward to rolling up to Boone in basketball later in the year!

[BeauFoster]

The student fees are not included in the total contributions, but are included in total revenue just like App's is. As I said we contacted our AD and they said the 2012 numbers are incorrect, no idea what the correct numbers are, but given the money coming in from football even the rough conservative estimate would indicate that they number listed is way low, which would of course lower the % of the student subsidy of the total revenue.

Anyway - good luck guys. With the season about to start for both us seems like we have better things to bicker about with teams we will actually be playing. I look forward to rolling up to Boone in basketball later in the year!

Wait...so you posted the link to support your argument, but you freely admit the numbers are wrong? They don't teach you much at UNCC, do they?