Jason Capel... should he stay or should he go?

[Kgfish]

Take this for what it's worth.

Coach K's first 3 years at Duke* - 17-13
10-17
11-17
38-47


Capel's first 3 years at APP - 16-15
13-18
12-15**
32-48
*Coach K had winning overall record at Army
**season in progress


Though not completely comparative there's not too big a difference. I'm not saying Capel is the next Coach K but I think some of us do have way high expectations. I agree with the earlier post that Capel needs to bring in an experienced, competent assistant. I'm not sure we need to give up on his yet. I would love to see us doing better but who knows what he may turn into. Having said that I would not be terribly upset if he was replaced either. Either way I think it'll be better next year but that could be hindered with a coaching change. We're not a good position right now either way. I think I'd rather see us ride the Capel colt another year and see what he grows into.

Comparing Capel's record in one of the worst conferences in the nation to K's record in the toughest conference in the nation - esp when he took over from Bill Foster in 1980 - is nonsense. UNC was runner up to National Champion Indiana in '81, they won it in '82 and NC State won it in '83.

[MountainMan]

The comparison is not nonsense at all. The entire ACC did not win the NC in those first few years of Coach K at Duke. Sure there were some very good teams, but there were some other just-O.K. teams as well. Duke probably had greater resources then than anyone in the SoCon does now. The point was not that it was an exact comparison, nor that Capel would become the next Coach K; it was simply the difficulty in judging a coach's long-term ability/success based on only his first two or three years.

[asumike83]

One valid point, which Appalachman made earlier in the thread, is the conference situation. If Cobb & Co. know more than we do about a possible move to the Sun Belt, that could factor into all this.

If the possibility exists that a year from now, we'll have a bigger budget to make a hire and a better conference to play in, it is worth considering. Not saying the Sun Belt is the ACC but they are #14 in the RPI as opposed to the SoCon at #27. A move would make this a more attractive job.

I don't think anyone is holding their breath for Capel to magically turn things around but it may be worth waiting another year if it means making a splash in 2014 as opposed to another gamble in 2013.

[Maddog1956]

The comparison is not nonsense at all. The entire ACC did not win the NC in those first few years of Coach K at Duke. Sure there were some very good teams, but there were some other just-O.K. teams as well. Duke probably had greater resources then than anyone in the SoCon does now. The point was not that it was an exact comparison, nor that Capel would become the next Coach K; it was simply the difficulty in judging a coach's long-term ability/success based on only his first two or three years.

I think the comparison is nonsense because Coach K had a proven record and Capel doesn't. Also the fact that the ACC may be the toughest conference in the country does have to be considered. Also who you're taking over from matters.

But I agree that's it's hard to tell in the first few years, but again there is no promise that he'll stay if he does start improving and he doesn't have any record of success. Buzz didn't take him to UNCW and he could have.

I just think that we need a winning coach (at any level) that has connections to coaches at high schools to get players and provide him a step up. It's just pretty easy to look at a coach's record and tell did if they built a winning team or not.

Bball isn't that hard, it's five players and one good player can make a difference.

[JTApps1]

The comparison is not nonsense at all. The entire ACC did not win the NC in those first few years of Coach K at Duke. Sure there were some very good teams, but there were some other just-O.K. teams as well. Duke probably had greater resources then than anyone in the SoCon does now. The point was not that it was an exact comparison, nor that Capel would become the next Coach K; it was simply the difficulty in judging a coach's long-term ability/success based on only his first two or three years.

Coach K had also proven himself in other places before going to Duke where he was given the task of cleaning up a mess. Capel was handed a 24 win team that had almost everyone back including the leading scorer in school history. I see what you're saying but the folks at Duke could atleast point to K's past and say he would turn it around. For us we have nothing but 3 years of declining basketball. Turning a program around in the ACC is a much harder task than even maintaining a program in the SoCon. Everyone said wait until he gets his players in the system. Well all but one guy on the roster are his guys, and that one guy is the best player on the team.

[Maddog1956]

Well all but one guy on the roster are his guys, and that one guy is the best player on the team.

I didn't know that, but that kind of said it all doesn't it!

[asumike83]

Coach K had also proven himself in other places before going to Duke where he was given the task of cleaning up a mess. Capel was handed a 24 win team that had almost everyone back including the leading scorer in school history. I see what you're saying but the folks at Duke could atleast point to K's past and say he would turn it around. For us we have nothing but 3 years of declining basketball. Turning a program around in the ACC is a much harder task than even maintaining a program in the SoCon. Everyone said wait until he gets his players in the system. Well all but one guy on the roster are his guys, and that one guy is the best player on the team.

Not that I think the Capel/Coach K comparison is valid but that is not exactly accurate. Bill Foster paved the way for Krzyzewski. Duke won 73 games in the 3 seasons before K was hired with an Elite 8 and National Title game appearance. Coach K was 9-17 in his last season at Army and went 38-47 his first 3 at Duke. LOTS of people in Durham wanted his head because there was a significant decline in his first three seasons.

That said, he learned under a legend and had much more experience than Capel when he was hired. The Duke administration did have more reason to stick with him after he'd had 3 winning seasons out of 5 at Army.

[Seattleapp]

Really? We are making the comparison to Coach K? How about we compare him to the countless other coaches that are bad coaches? This is what's so funny about us. We only go 8-3 in football and everyone is screaming to fire the entire coaching staff. We look like a D-2 school out there consistently and hey, we just gotta let Capel get his sea legs under him. Should I make my Tony Bennett comparison again?

[goapps93]

Take this for what it's worth.

Coach K's first 3 years at Duke* - 17-13
10-17
11-17
38-47


Capel's first 3 years at APP - 16-15
13-18
12-15**
32-48
*Coach K had winning overall record at Army
**season in progress


Though not completely comparative there's not too big a difference.

K spent one season under Bob Knight @ Indiana
then 5 seasons at Army (Alma Matter) 73-59 and a NIT Birth
and was a Team USA assistant in 1979

Capel 1 season as assist to Buzz Peterson .

That's why I said take it for what it's worth. I should have added there's not too much difference in the records and I'd imagine that the Duke fans didn't really care that he'd been under Knight and was successful at Army as his records slipped in those first 3 seasons.

[Rekdiver]

Forget records here.

After defending Jason for a year, I had a long talk with a former ASU player who is very involved with high school coaches, AAU coaches, players and a lot of other knowledgable people; here is what I am hearing.
"Jason is aloof. He does not communicate and does nothing to garner support. he does not know how to manage a game and was ill prepared to take the job. Since then he has not progressed as was hoped. A couple of his assistants are just plain aholes.........."

And yes his hiring was pushed by Mark Harrill. I could go on but the former player like Jason in the beginning but says he just is not a good fit. He said that Matt should have gotten the job but understands the rational of a coach with a name and that the experiment has failed. I'd hire Bobby Lutz from State