Attendance For The Rest Of The Season

[EastHallApp]

Bottom line is that none of this is a surprise. We have known for a few years now that this was going to be the deal. Now you may or may not agree with the move but we can't pretend we didn't know this would be the case. Down side is some may not be able to get to a game or two. Upside is that you will never have to miss seeing a game due to all of them being on either TV or ESPN3. Look at the bright side (:

Thinking back a couple years to conversation on this board, I think there were some who felt that fan interest and attendance was pretty closely correlated with competition level. That is to say, because FBS teams in general are better than FCS teams, then naturally more fans would show up for an FBS schedule than an FCS one. If X number of fans showed up to watch us play the 130th-best team in the nation, then presumably greater than X fans would come out to watch us play the 103rd best team.

It was an overly simplified view that misunderstood what factors drive fan interest, but it was out there.

The good news is that, while expanded TV coverage *may* cause a few fans to stay home and watch in the short run, it's essential to growing the fan base, which should mean attendance growth in the long term assuming the program continues to perform well on the field.

[AppFan11]

First we are all on the same-side ok?????? Now business people out there.... when do you double the cost of an item (service) and sell more? If diet coke went from $7/case to $14/case or big screen tv's from $600 to $1200.....you wouldn't sell more.
2007 24,219; 2008 28,727; 2009 25,969; 2010 29,449; 2011 28,031; 2012 27,964; 2013 24894; 2014 23,166; 2015 21,21459; 2016?????
There are many factors that affect attendances. you all have been citing them: increased access to games via tv/computer, home schedule, weather, the "national trends," and Cost. To be clear, our attendance number this season will somewhat higher due to the UM effect but the actual number ïn the stands" will be significantly less. We will probably experience the lower number in the 2017 attendance figures.

[moonshine]

I think it was a mistake to take away the mini packages. If anything, mark the mini package prices up. I know of several fans who had mini packages for years and did not get season tickets this year. They are unable to make the time commitment to be at every home game but could normally make 2-3 games a year. Taking away the mini package alienated those fans to a degree.

I think keeping the mini option while increasing the mini price would've benefited the fans and App. Gillin could've even removed Miami from the mini package but still incentivize the package by allowing those who purchased minis to have a shot at GA tickets to the U prior to public sales. He could ultimately implement this idea next year with Wake.

[MDaniels84]

I think it was a mistake to take away the mini packages. If anything, mark the mini package prices up. I know of several fans who had mini packages for years and did not get season tickets this year. They are unable to make the time commitment to be at every home game but could normally make 2-3 games a year. Taking away the mini package alienated those fans to a degree.

I think keeping the mini option while increasing the mini price would've benefited the fans and App. Gillin could've even removed Miami from the mini package but still incentivize the package by allowing those who purchased minis to have a shot at GA tickets to the U prior to public sales. He could ultimately implement this idea next year with Wake.

Gilllen has made some good moves thus far. Maybe, just maybe, he will look at this as an option for bringing back a portion of the fan base who cannot make a 6 game commitment. I, too, think that the departure of the mini season ticket package alienated some folks who want to be there otherwise.

[/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09]

http://mutigers.com/sports/2015/3/19/buytickets.aspx

Missouri does mini-packages. Doug came from Missouri. That was the confusing part for me when they announced they would do away with the half-season option. Maybe he saw it didn't work at Missouri? Maybe he wanted to try something new? Who knows. I like how Missouri does it though. Pick 3, 4, or 5 game option, and you get to select the games you can attend.

[MDaniels84]

http://mutigers.com/sports/2015/3/19/buytickets.aspx

Missouri does mini-packages. Doug came from Missouri. That was the confusing part for me when they announced they would do away with the half-season option. Maybe he saw it didn't work at Missouri? Maybe he wanted to try something new? Who knows. I like how Missouri does it though. Pick 3, 4, or 5 game option, and you get to select the games you can attend.

Had no idea that Missouri did this also. That is puzzling as to why we would do away with the games. If they had wanted to leave Miami game out, that would have been ok as some people know how many times they can commit to travelling.

[JTApps1]

IMO, what is affecting attendance more than anything else is that the kickoff time is not posted until 12 days prior.

In my own case, I have made entire seasons of games, home and away, when the schedule has been set months in advance.

In the case of the GaState game, had this game been at 3:30, I could be there. I have to be somewhere else from 11:00 - 1:15 though. This event was planned months in advance, and I already committed to it hoping kickoff was at 3:30.

So, if the school wants TV $$, they will have to sacrifice butts in the seats unless they can set the kickoff times months in advance like they used to do.

Is ESPN3 or ASN really worth it? Perhaps ESPN or ESPN2 is worth it. But, other TV opportunities are not. IMO.

Unfortunately the school has only a small input on this issue. The conference office and TV basically make the decision. Gillin put out a statement yesterday to address this so he knows our fans want later kickoff times, and he certainly knows butts in the seats brings App more cash than being on ASN at least in the short term.

At least we aren't like the CUSA schools who have to play on beIn network.

[AppAlum1]

First we are all on the same-side ok?????? Now business people out there.... when do you double the cost of an item (service) and sell more? If diet coke went from $7/case to $14/case or big screen tv's from $600 to $1200.....you wouldn't sell more.
2007 24,219; 2008 28,727; 2009 25,969; 2010 29,449; 2011 28,031; 2012 27,964; 2013 24894; 2014 23,166; 2015 21,21459; 2016?????
There are many factors that affect attendances. you all have been citing them: increased access to games via tv/computer, home schedule, weather, the "national trends," and Cost. To be clear, our attendance number this season will somewhat higher due to the UM effect but the actual number ïn the stands" will be significantly less. We will probably experience the lower number in the 2017 attendance figures.

Sure, we are all on the same side. We can still argue.

I think your analysis is WAY off. You are arguing from Econ 101 & we are in graduate level econ here. I knew my MBA would come in handy for something. You are assuming those who donate to the Yosef Club have limited disposable income. That would be an incorrect assumption. Yosef Club members can choose among giving levels & many choose their giving levels based on their parking privileges. The disconnect between the Yosef Club membership & ticket sales is shown especially when one can buy tickets and NOT belong to the Yosef Club.

I maintain that an increase in contributions to the Yosef Club should have no impact on ticket sales. Hence, your economic analysis is WAY off. I agree that more likely the decrease in attendance in recent years is due more to scheduling conflicts. If the schedule for ASU football games is not known until 12 days prior to the game, then all events with longer term scheduling will continue to get in the way and attendance will be lower than it otherwise would be.

[Saint3333]

6 homes Saturday games (all non-holiday weekends too), so far near perfect weather through three games - we aren't going to see a more favorable schedule in the next 10 years.

[App1990]

Yosef club and ticket prices are complements. Give back your MBA are retake ECON 101 if you think the price of one doesn't affect the other.

Declining attendance is a national trend, but we've seen a larger decline. Lots of factors for us, which many have mentioned--weaker rivalries, kickoff times, prices, etc., and maybe a lingering effect from the Moore debacle and those down years. This was expected based on the facts/trends. It matters because revenue from ticket sales is more important to G5 (and FCS) programs than TV deals. And we have to realize that only the relatively small number of die-hard fans (like those on message boards) care about the difference in quality between UT Chat versus UL Monroe. IMO, TV is a small part of it. For most fans, it is about it being fun, which is rivalry, kickoff time, experience, winning, challenging for championship, etc. Miami was on ESPN and people chose to enjoy the experience. FCS is on ESPN3, but I recall we weren't sometimes back then. I'm still hoping for the next shake out to create regional conferences that puts us with ECU, UNCC, JMU, etc. That will be good for ticket sales, home and road!!

[SpeedkingATL]

Overall attendance is also affected by the distance SunBelt fans from other cities have to travel to get to Boone so we get fewer fans of our opponents these days. In the SoCon most games were a pretty easy drive, not so much in the Belt or in any FBS conference these days. I rarely missed a road game in the SoCon as most were easy to get to from Atlanta. If anything I now attend more home games as Boone is easier to get to that most of the Belt road games. (and yes I do support the FBS move and every other year App plays GaSt 10 minutes from my home!) All we can do as App fans is continue to market our University and sports teams as best we can to as many alumni and others as we can......as well as try and drive support for the Yosef Club. If you are a Yosef member you will likely attend some App sporting events regardless. Noon games stink for me driving from ATL but I've done it once and will likely do it again this weekend.

Go Apps!!!

[AppFan11]

To appalum1, in an effort to be more clear, your position that an increase in "contributions" should have no impact on tickets sales is most likely true at the upper end of the Yosef contribution limits. However, at the lower limits of $250 and $100 it is not. Also there are significantly more contributors at these lower levels. The $250 contributor had to decide what to do: double commitment or move or drop. The $100 contributor was really in a quandary. Many of them became single ticket people and b/c of their number they hurt the attendance number.

[moonshine]

I ended up having to move because of the increase. I had made a 4-5 year pledge a year or so ago. Due to other financial obligations (bought a house), I couldn't afford the increase this year. I feel they should have allowed me to stay in my old section since I made the multi year commitment prior to the increase for my section with the caveat that I would have to move if my section were completely sold out at the higher level which would've been completely understandable. Once my commitment was up, at that point, I could either increase to stay in my section or choose to move. Alas, I made the move but hope to be back in my old section in the coming years.

[bigdaddyg]

What is the largest number of home Sunbelt opponent tickets sold so far? If we are only seeing a few hundred from the opponent that skews the numbers a bit. Back when we had teams only a short ride away (with local fan bases) they might bring 1k or more. That has to make a difference.

[appbio91]

I've never had to miss home games before, but now that my son is involved in weekend tournaments, there are two games this year I can't make. I am trying to make sure that the seats are filled.

Attendance all across the country is declining. I don't know that we'll ever get back to the 25k+ average, but what we need to do is to cultivate as many loyal fans as we can and make the gameday experience as good as possible for them.

I went through that as well. Listened to many games at the softball field. Probably don't need to tell you this but enjoy it while you can. It comes and goes very fast. App football will still be there in a few years. My wife and I are alone where we used to have 4 seats. My youngest comes over at halftime to say hey but that's about all we get. Oldest has graduated and moved on. Okay I am done sounding like and old man now.

[Yosef84]

I honestly don't remember SoCon fans traveling well at all. Elon, Georgia Southern, and Western Carolina usually brought decent numbers....sometimes Furman. Most of our opponents prior to the SunBelt didn't bring that many fans though.

I've actually been pleasantly surprised by the number of visiting fans since we joined the Belt.

[hapapp]

IMO, what is affecting attendance more than anything else is that the kickoff time is not posted until 12 days prior.

In my own case, I have made entire seasons of games, home and away, when the schedule has been set months in advance.

In the case of the GaState game, had this game been at 3:30, I could be there. I have to be somewhere else from 11:00 - 1:15 though. This event was planned months in advance, and I already committed to it hoping kickoff was at 3:30.

So, if the school wants TV $$, they will have to sacrifice butts in the seats unless they can set the kickoff times months in advance like they used to do.

Is ESPN3 or ASN really worth it? Perhaps ESPN or ESPN2 is worth it. But, other TV opportunities are not. IMO.

We are a member of a conference. We aren't choosing the game time, the TV folks are. People have plenty of legit reasons for missing games. I know I did when I was coaching. But plenty of schools have 12 o'clock games and fans still manage to be there. I would hate to think some folks are passing just because of the time and not a conflict of some sort.

[JGthatsme86]

Can the mods file this thread in the "Chicken Little" file? Just 2 short weeks ago, we were all crowing about the huge Miami attendance, how the move to FBS was truly being proven based on our hosting a top tier team and what the next stadium expansion would look like.

Two weeks later and people are actually questioning the loss of regional SoCon rivalries again? Have you by chance looked at the state of the current SoCon? If we had stayed, we MIGHT be drawing a solid 14k against powerhouses like VMI and ETSU. No thank you.

Relax guys. If we keep winning, the crowds will increase. On the other hand, If we loose a bunch, crowds will thin. Either way, I will be the loud guy in 205. As my grandfather says, "Come back when you can and stay as long as you will".

[bcoach]

Actually everything here is true. Coach Moore, the move up, money, loss of old rivalries, geography, TV, and the rest. Again though not one of those things is a surprise. So the real question is not why because we know why. The real question is what is being done about it? What can be done about it. Expansion? Doesn't sound logical to me. Stadium improvements? Maybe depending on what they are. How about a survey. Has anyone asked the fan base? the alumni? Do we really know why people stopped coming? Do we know why people never started? We have a pretty large alum base in the 3-4 hour range of Boone. Do we know why such a small percentage come? I am not one who thinks people have to attend an event they either enjoy something or they don't. If I am an organizer of an event I think I need to know why or why not. Now I think that one of the reasons is that some are at games at State, Duke, Carolina, Wake, and VT. With that said I think I also need to know why.
We spend a lot of time talking about what the players want and that is fine. Do we ever spend any time investigating what the alumni want? You notice I didn't say fans I said alumni. Those folks who are not fans. We graduate more students each year and ticket sales go down. Not a great business model. We should not be looking so much at what WE want as WE are already here. We need to reach the folks who are not yet fans. We need to fill the funnel. Premium seating is fine but is that for NEW fans? I don't think so. If that is the case we need to fill the seats those premium buyers are leaving. Plain and simple our number one goal should be NEW fans. The alternative is even more price increases.

[bcoach]

Can the mods file this thread in the "Chicken Little" file? Just 2 short weeks ago, we were all crowing about the huge Miami attendance, how the move to FBS was truly being proven based on our hosting a top tier team and what the next stadium expansion would look like.

Two weeks later and people are actually questioning the loss of regional SoCon rivalries again? Have you by chance looked at the state of the current SoCon? If we had stayed, we MIGHT be drawing a solid 14k against powerhouses like VMI and ETSU. No thank you.

Relax guys. If we keep winning, the crowds will increase. On the other hand, If we loose a bunch, crowds will thin. Either way, I will be the loud guy in 205. As my grandfather says, "Come back when you can and stay as long as you will".

I think you are overstating. I don't see anyone saying they want to go back.