Cuts at UNCA

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Re: Cuts at UNCA

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:14 pm

There are going to be winners and losers in all of this. I do hope App State is on the winning side in 40 or 50 years.
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Re: Cuts at UNCA

Unread post by Bootsy » Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:33 pm

McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:14 pm
There are going to be winners and losers in all of this. I do hope App State is on the winning side in 40 or 50 years.
My wife and I were discussing this tonight. Many smaller colleges up north are feeling the squeeze and either closing or merging with other small schools in an attempt to keep the doors open.

Given all of the trends discussed above, it wouldn’t be a shock to see the UNC System shrink by 2-3 schools within the next 10 years.

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Re: Cuts at UNCA

Unread post by Tru2ASU » Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:27 am

Bootsy wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:33 pm
McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:14 pm
There are going to be winners and losers in all of this. I do hope App State is on the winning side in 40 or 50 years.
My wife and I were discussing this tonight. Many smaller colleges up north are feeling the squeeze and either closing or merging with other small schools in an attempt to keep the doors

Given all of the trends discussed above, it wouldn’t be a shock to see the UNC System shrink by 2-3 schools within the next 10 years.
In the early 2010s during a rough patch, Fayetteville State and Elizabeth City State were heavy rumors we heard about closures.

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Re: Cuts at UNCA

Unread post by MrCraig » Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:37 am

As a high school teacher, I've said for a while that we were on the verge of a higher ed bubble and a market correction when it comes to college. Too many kids go to college that don't need to or shouldn't. There are a lot of jobs out there that "require" a college degree, but don't actually. They can easily just train people to do the job themselves. The college degree has just become a hoop to jump through in order to get a job, which then waters down the actual education. College should be a place where a minority of people go for the purpose of general education and/or learning highly specific skills for certain occupations. You don't "need" a business degree to be the general manager of a Harris Teeter, yet they expect you to have one anyway.

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Re: Cuts at UNCA

Unread post by Bigdaddyg1 » Sat Feb 10, 2024 11:03 am

MrCraig wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:37 am
As a high school teacher, I've said for a while that we were on the verge of a higher ed bubble and a market correction when it comes to college. Too many kids go to college that don't need to or shouldn't. There are a lot of jobs out there that "require" a college degree, but don't actually. They can easily just train people to do the job themselves. The college degree has just become a hoop to jump through in order to get a job, which then waters down the actual education. College should be a place where a minority of people go for the purpose of general education and/or learning highly specific skills for certain occupations. You don't "need" a business degree to be the general manager of a Harris Teeter, yet they expect you to have one anyway.
Some say that what a college degree boils down to for many employers is that the person who received one simply showed that he/she could commit to something difficult for 4ish years and completed the task making them (hopefully) someone who can help the organization possibly better than a person the same age who has simply worked. I don't absolutely subscribe to that way of thinking. I graduated in 1986 from App and can look back at the many useless classes I took to get to my 120 hours. After several years of English in high school I was pretty proficient at reading and writing yet I had to take two more classes in college. The theater and music classes were supposed to be "easy" and I got almost nothing out of them, same for the geology (rocks for jocks) classes. I majored in business and to this day as an accountant I have never had to fall back on really anything I learned in most of those classes. Even back 40 years ago my degree wasn't a slam dunk for great jobs. My son currently at App has taken some really stupid classes that to me are simply a money grab for the university. I think that overall there are WAY too many colleges and I agree with what you say. Way too many people believe that they need a college degree for a good job. Way too many spend a fortune for the piece of paper and many never realize a return on that investment. If you don't obtain a degree in something specialized it's about pointless.

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Re: Cuts at UNCA

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Sat Feb 10, 2024 12:33 pm

Bootsy wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:33 pm
McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:14 pm
There are going to be winners and losers in all of this. I do hope App State is on the winning side in 40 or 50 years.
My wife and I were discussing this tonight. Many smaller colleges up north are feeling the squeeze and either closing or merging with other small schools in an attempt to keep the doors open.

Given all of the trends discussed above, it wouldn’t be a shock to see the UNC System shrink by 2-3 schools within the next 10 years.
I imagine before that happens they merge some administrations and keep separate campuses under one admin. If I live in an area that could lose a campus I am raising hell. The taxes that support these campuses should be spread around the state.

UNCG, if the drops in enrollment continues, could scale back to north of Gate City Blvd. Those new dorms could be sold for private housing. That lowers the cost of running the university, adds to the supply of housing units, so that can help with housing costs for everyone in the market for housing. Win-Win. I am not sure what UNC-A has in that sort of thing. That would work best in a growing urban area. WCU would be in a tighter spot.
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Re: Cuts at UNCA

Unread post by MrCraig » Sat Feb 10, 2024 1:46 pm

Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 11:03 am
MrCraig wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:37 am
As a high school teacher, I've said for a while that we were on the verge of a higher ed bubble and a market correction when it comes to college. Too many kids go to college that don't need to or shouldn't. There are a lot of jobs out there that "require" a college degree, but don't actually. They can easily just train people to do the job themselves. The college degree has just become a hoop to jump through in order to get a job, which then waters down the actual education. College should be a place where a minority of people go for the purpose of general education and/or learning highly specific skills for certain occupations. You don't "need" a business degree to be the general manager of a Harris Teeter, yet they expect you to have one anyway.
Some say that what a college degree boils down to for many employers is that the person who received one simply showed that he/she could commit to something difficult for 4ish years and completed the task making them (hopefully) someone who can help the organization possibly better than a person the same age who has simply worked. I don't absolutely subscribe to that way of thinking. I graduated in 1986 from App and can look back at the many useless classes I took to get to my 120 hours. After several years of English in high school I was pretty proficient at reading and writing yet I had to take two more classes in college. The theater and music classes were supposed to be "easy" and I got almost nothing out of them, same for the geology (rocks for jocks) classes. I majored in business and to this day as an accountant I have never had to fall back on really anything I learned in most of those classes. Even back 40 years ago my degree wasn't a slam dunk for great jobs. My son currently at App has taken some really stupid classes that to me are simply a money grab for the university. I think that overall there are WAY too many colleges and I agree with what you say. Way too many people believe that they need a college degree for a good job. Way too many spend a fortune for the piece of paper and many never realize a return on that investment. If you don't obtain a degree in something specialized it's about pointless.
I get a little hesitant when we start talking about "useless" classes. Some of my favorite classes, and the ones where I learned the most, didn't have any correlation with my degree or my profession. Hence, why I said the focus of college needs to either be 1. Getting an education and gaining knowledge just for the sake of it, or 2. learning highly specialized skills for a future career. This weird combination of the two that we currently have results in students receiving neither.

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Re: Cuts at UNCA

Unread post by Tru2ASU » Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:24 pm

McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 12:33 pm
Bootsy wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:33 pm
McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:14 pm
There are going to be winners and losers in all of this. I do hope App State is on the winning side in 40 or 50 years.
My wife and I were discussing this tonight. Many smaller colleges up north are feeling the squeeze and either closing or merging with other small schools in an attempt to keep the doors open.

Given all of the trends discussed above, it wouldn’t be a shock to see the UNC System shrink by 2-3 schools within the next 10 years.
I imagine before that happens they merge some administrations and keep separate campuses under one admin. If I live in an area that could lose a campus I am raising hell. The taxes that support these campuses should be spread around the state.

UNCG, if the drops in enrollment continues, could scale back to north of Gate City Blvd. Those new dorms could be sold for private housing. That lowers the cost of running the university, adds to the supply of housing units, so that can help with housing costs for everyone in the market for housing. Win-Win. I am not sure what UNC-A has in that sort of thing. That would work best in a growing urban area. WCU would be in a tighter spot.

UNCG just had their biggest freshman class. WSSU is now experiencing some hardships...

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Re: Cuts at UNCA

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:25 pm

MrCraig wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 1:46 pm
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 11:03 am
MrCraig wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:37 am
As a high school teacher, I've said for a while that we were on the verge of a higher ed bubble and a market correction when it comes to college. Too many kids go to college that don't need to or shouldn't. There are a lot of jobs out there that "require" a college degree, but don't actually. They can easily just train people to do the job themselves. The college degree has just become a hoop to jump through in order to get a job, which then waters down the actual education. College should be a place where a minority of people go for the purpose of general education and/or learning highly specific skills for certain occupations. You don't "need" a business degree to be the general manager of a Harris Teeter, yet they expect you to have one anyway.
Some say that what a college degree boils down to for many employers is that the person who received one simply showed that he/she could commit to something difficult for 4ish years and completed the task making them (hopefully) someone who can help the organization possibly better than a person the same age who has simply worked. I don't absolutely subscribe to that way of thinking. I graduated in 1986 from App and can look back at the many useless classes I took to get to my 120 hours. After several years of English in high school I was pretty proficient at reading and writing yet I had to take two more classes in college. The theater and music classes were supposed to be "easy" and I got almost nothing out of them, same for the geology (rocks for jocks) classes. I majored in business and to this day as an accountant I have never had to fall back on really anything I learned in most of those classes. Even back 40 years ago my degree wasn't a slam dunk for great jobs. My son currently at App has taken some really stupid classes that to me are simply a money grab for the university. I think that overall there are WAY too many colleges and I agree with what you say. Way too many people believe that they need a college degree for a good job. Way too many spend a fortune for the piece of paper and many never realize a return on that investment. If you don't obtain a degree in something specialized it's about pointless.
I get a little hesitant when we start talking about "useless" classes. Some of my favorite classes, and the ones where I learned the most, didn't have any correlation with my degree or my profession. Hence, why I said the focus of college needs to either be 1. Getting an education and gaining knowledge just for the sake of it, or 2. learning highly specialized skills for a future career. This weird combination of the two that we currently have results in students receiving neither.
You had me to the end. Your liberal arts type degree from App does both. If you want highly specialized then get go to grad school.
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Re: Cuts at UNCA

Unread post by Bootsy » Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:43 pm

This is what I like about this site: none of these problems are simple and they didn’t develop overnight. We all have unique backgrounds and diverse perspectives which add value to the discussion.

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Re: Cuts at UNCA

Unread post by MrCraig » Sat Feb 10, 2024 4:03 pm

McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:25 pm
MrCraig wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 1:46 pm
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 11:03 am
MrCraig wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:37 am
As a high school teacher, I've said for a while that we were on the verge of a higher ed bubble and a market correction when it comes to college. Too many kids go to college that don't need to or shouldn't. There are a lot of jobs out there that "require" a college degree, but don't actually. They can easily just train people to do the job themselves. The college degree has just become a hoop to jump through in order to get a job, which then waters down the actual education. College should be a place where a minority of people go for the purpose of general education and/or learning highly specific skills for certain occupations. You don't "need" a business degree to be the general manager of a Harris Teeter, yet they expect you to have one anyway.
Some say that what a college degree boils down to for many employers is that the person who received one simply showed that he/she could commit to something difficult for 4ish years and completed the task making them (hopefully) someone who can help the organization possibly better than a person the same age who has simply worked. I don't absolutely subscribe to that way of thinking. I graduated in 1986 from App and can look back at the many useless classes I took to get to my 120 hours. After several years of English in high school I was pretty proficient at reading and writing yet I had to take two more classes in college. The theater and music classes were supposed to be "easy" and I got almost nothing out of them, same for the geology (rocks for jocks) classes. I majored in business and to this day as an accountant I have never had to fall back on really anything I learned in most of those classes. Even back 40 years ago my degree wasn't a slam dunk for great jobs. My son currently at App has taken some really stupid classes that to me are simply a money grab for the university. I think that overall there are WAY too many colleges and I agree with what you say. Way too many people believe that they need a college degree for a good job. Way too many spend a fortune for the piece of paper and many never realize a return on that investment. If you don't obtain a degree in something specialized it's about pointless.
I get a little hesitant when we start talking about "useless" classes. Some of my favorite classes, and the ones where I learned the most, didn't have any correlation with my degree or my profession. Hence, why I said the focus of college needs to either be 1. Getting an education and gaining knowledge just for the sake of it, or 2. learning highly specialized skills for a future career. This weird combination of the two that we currently have results in students receiving neither.
You had me to the end. Your liberal arts type degree from App does both. If you want highly specialized then get go to grad school.
I actually 100% agree with you. I didn’t make my point how I meant it in my head. What I meant was, that’s what people want and employers look for.
Like, there are trade schools, but there are employers who expect a 4-year liberal arts degree for work that can be done with a trade school certificate or associates degree from a CC. And there are a lot of kids who only view college, no matter what kind, as just the means to an end of getting a job. But that’s not really the point of a liberal arts degree.
Idk if I’m making sense. It makes sense to me.

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Re: Cuts at UNCA

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Sat Feb 10, 2024 4:21 pm

MrCraig wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 4:03 pm
McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:25 pm
MrCraig wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 1:46 pm
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 11:03 am
MrCraig wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:37 am
As a high school teacher, I've said for a while that we were on the verge of a higher ed bubble and a market correction when it comes to college. Too many kids go to college that don't need to or shouldn't. There are a lot of jobs out there that "require" a college degree, but don't actually. They can easily just train people to do the job themselves. The college degree has just become a hoop to jump through in order to get a job, which then waters down the actual education. College should be a place where a minority of people go for the purpose of general education and/or learning highly specific skills for certain occupations. You don't "need" a business degree to be the general manager of a Harris Teeter, yet they expect you to have one anyway.
Some say that what a college degree boils down to for many employers is that the person who received one simply showed that he/she could commit to something difficult for 4ish years and completed the task making them (hopefully) someone who can help the organization possibly better than a person the same age who has simply worked. I don't absolutely subscribe to that way of thinking. I graduated in 1986 from App and can look back at the many useless classes I took to get to my 120 hours. After several years of English in high school I was pretty proficient at reading and writing yet I had to take two more classes in college. The theater and music classes were supposed to be "easy" and I got almost nothing out of them, same for the geology (rocks for jocks) classes. I majored in business and to this day as an accountant I have never had to fall back on really anything I learned in most of those classes. Even back 40 years ago my degree wasn't a slam dunk for great jobs. My son currently at App has taken some really stupid classes that to me are simply a money grab for the university. I think that overall there are WAY too many colleges and I agree with what you say. Way too many people believe that they need a college degree for a good job. Way too many spend a fortune for the piece of paper and many never realize a return on that investment. If you don't obtain a degree in something specialized it's about pointless.
I get a little hesitant when we start talking about "useless" classes. Some of my favorite classes, and the ones where I learned the most, didn't have any correlation with my degree or my profession. Hence, why I said the focus of college needs to either be 1. Getting an education and gaining knowledge just for the sake of it, or 2. learning highly specialized skills for a future career. This weird combination of the two that we currently have results in students receiving neither.
You had me to the end. Your liberal arts type degree from App does both. If you want highly specialized then get go to grad school.
I actually 100% agree with you. I didn’t make my point how I meant it in my head. What I meant was, that’s what people want and employers look for.
Like, there are trade schools, but there are employers who expect a 4-year liberal arts degree for work that can be done with a trade school certificate or associates degree from a CC. And there are a lot of kids who only view college, no matter what kind, as just the means to an end of getting a job. But that’s not really the point of a liberal arts degree.
Idk if I’m making sense. It makes sense to me.
I got it. After the basketball game I am not really thinking straight all that much TBH.
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Re: Cuts at UNCA

Unread post by Stonewall » Sun Feb 11, 2024 5:49 pm

UNCA sits on some valuable real estate.

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Re: Cuts at UNCA

Unread post by Appst86 » Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:17 am

Here’s a good article on why we have lost faith in the value of college. Our universities have been selling needless/worthless products for years. I once read, "if one year of tuition is more than one year of a mid-career salary for a job in your chosen major/field, it’s time to change majors or change schools."

https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/w ... ticle_pos9

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Re: Cuts at UNCA

Unread post by Bigdaddyg1 » Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:13 am

The description of "worthless" as it relates to college classes seems to be real to some and the opposite to others. All comes down to perspective I suppose. While college kids who aren't footing the bill for their time in college might not care some parents writing checks may feel differently. I simply don't see how Introduction to Fly Fishing for a 20 year old (at the tune of $500 or more in tuition) is a viable asset for future employers. Realistically any person should be able to achieve enough college education in two years.

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Re: Cuts at UNCA

Unread post by Stonewall » Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:00 pm

Worked my way through. Loved every minute of it. Frankly learned more of value on the job .

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Re: Cuts at UNCA

Unread post by hapapp » Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:55 pm

Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:13 am
The description of "worthless" as it relates to college classes seems to be real to some and the opposite to others. All comes down to perspective I suppose. While college kids who aren't footing the bill for their time in college might not care some parents writing checks may feel differently. I simply don't see how Introduction to Fly Fishing for a 20 year old (at the tune of $500 or more in tuition) is a viable asset for future employers. Realistically any person should be able to achieve enough college education in two years.
No doubt, job preparation is ultimately what one hopes comes with a college degree in one's chosen field. I was a poli sci major at App. Frankly, it didn't prepare me for any kind of immediate job. Thus, I headed off to grad school at UR. It hit me that I had no real plans upon finishing grad school. So, I headed from the West End to downtown at VCU and gained my teaching certificate, which lead to a career in education. I enter my 50th year next year. (I did eventually finish my master's degree). Of course, I did that at time when the cost of college education was far different than today. However, I don't regret my path and I certainly don't think every class one takes in college should something that prepares one for their specific vocation. I do think, however, that my college years helped me mature and I hope made me a more well-rounded individual. For me, sticking one's foot in many different streams is also a big part of the college experience.

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Re: Cuts at UNCA

Unread post by BambooRdApp » Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:46 pm

hapapp wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:55 pm
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:13 am
The description of "worthless" as it relates to college classes seems to be real to some and the opposite to others. All comes down to perspective I suppose. While college kids who aren't footing the bill for their time in college might not care some parents writing checks may feel differently. I simply don't see how Introduction to Fly Fishing for a 20 year old (at the tune of $500 or more in tuition) is a viable asset for future employers. Realistically any person should be able to achieve enough college education in two years.
No doubt, job preparation is ultimately what one hopes comes with a college degree in one's chosen field. I was a poli sci major at App. Frankly, it didn't prepare me for any kind of immediate job. Thus, I headed off to grad school at UR. It hit me that I had no real plans upon finishing grad school. So, I headed from the West End to downtown at VCU and gained my teaching certificate, which lead to a career in education. I enter my 50th year next year. (I did eventually finish my master's degree). Of course, I did that at time when the cost of college education was far different than today. However, I don't regret my path and I certainly don't think every class one takes in college should something that prepares one for their specific vocation. I do think, however, that my college years helped me mature and I hope made me a more well-rounded individual. For me, sticking one's foot in many different streams is also a big part of the college experience.
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Re: Cuts at UNCA

Unread post by mike87 » Tue Feb 13, 2024 3:12 pm

hapapp wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:55 pm
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:13 am
The description of "worthless" as it relates to college classes seems to be real to some and the opposite to others. All comes down to perspective I suppose. While college kids who aren't footing the bill for their time in college might not care some parents writing checks may feel differently. I simply don't see how Introduction to Fly Fishing for a 20 year old (at the tune of $500 or more in tuition) is a viable asset for future employers. Realistically any person should be able to achieve enough college education in two years.
. For me, sticking one's foot in many different streams is also a big part of the college experience.
Yes it is.

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Re: Cuts at UNCA

Unread post by Bootsy » Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:10 pm

Some good friends of ours had an interesting way to help their daughter recognize the value of the investment they were making in her education.

When they received the tuition bill before her freshman year started, they had an idea. They asked her to grab her checkbook and join them at the kitchen table. They then asked her to write a check payable to them and gave her the dollar amount. What they didn't tell her at that point was the amount equaled a full year's tuition and room & board, minus her partial softball scholarship.

When she heard the dollar amount, her eyes grew as round as saucers. They told her to write the amount, sign/date the check and give it to them. Of course, she was in shock while this was happening...but she did as she was told. Only then did they show her the tuition bill for the year. As she progressed through college, she say she frequently thought about the investment/sacrifice her parents were making for her. Not only did it help her stay on track, but she has so much gratitude towards her mom & dad.

A powerful lesson, indeed. And they still have the check.

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