school shooting

[bcoach]

Please stop using the guns don't kill people, people kill people argument. Nucular weapons don't kill people, people kill people is the same argument and I sure as hell don't want Iran and North Korea to name a couple, to have them. I am not going to argue about guns other than assult weapons as I am not sure how I feel any more. Just stop using that argument because it just sounds silly.

[AppGrad1]

I guarantee i could do more damage in a mass shooting if i had a semi auto pistol with a10 round clip than any ar-15 could. I can eject the clip and feed another one in about 2 maybe 3 seconds. A pistol is much easier to conceal and navigate.
I'm tired of hearing the "dangers " of these so called assault rifles. There is no such name. Just political jargon to make the weapon"sound" scary.
Any person who had shot both can testify to this.
I'm tired of the political, media driven BS...

[1ASU78]

89
Do you have children? Imagine seeing your 6 year old child with 4 or 5 rounds from a bushmaster in his or her face or what's left of it.............Now tell me you still think there is a reason for an assault rifle with a 20 or 30 round clip.............There is no longer a defense in this country for support of these weapons. And I didn't vote for Obama, don't care for him. If I can't kill a deer with a bolt action 30.06 or a dove with a 3 shell shotgun then I don't need to be hunting. If we save one child in the future is it not worth it?

This type of argument is all emotion and no reason. Would you feel better if the kid took 4 or 5 rounds to the face from a 9mm or a .22?

The fact is very few people are murdered with .223 semi automatic rifles in this country. He could have done the same evil with a 5 shot revolver and a pocket full of speed loaders.

you are damn right it's an emotional comment. We don't need Assault rifles or high capacity magazines. And he could not have done what he did with a 5 shot revolver. I own one and ive used speed loaders. These kids are dead because of reasoning like yours. Think about that for a while. Move to Idaho.

I disagree with you, entirely.

[Robert Norton]

If this guy was as unstable as even his mother had mentioned, even though the guns were legal and she used them in a normal way at a range, would you not think twice or 39 times about having the guns around the house? Having worked at several schools, unless you have a steel entry room with metal detectors and an armed SRO, I'm not sure there is any way to stop these tragedies. As someone else mentioned I think there were many indicators, for quite a while, to warrant more vigilance toward this guy and having guns around the house is not being prudent unless they are in a gun safe that he had no way to get into the safe. Don't know where that 5:44 a.m. came from.

[appbio91]

http://www.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html? ... roteus.fma

This article is very sad and illustrates that there are lots of irrational paranoid people in this country. That thousands of people would line up to buy this weapon the day after it was used to commit this heinous crime is unbelievable to me. I hope the link works I have never pasted one using my phone.

[appbio91]

I guarantee i could do more damage in a mass shooting if i had a semi auto pistol with a10 round clip than any ar-15 could. I can eject the clip and feed another one in about 2 maybe 3 seconds. A pistol is much easier to conceal and navigate.
I'm tired of hearing the "dangers " of these so called assault rifles. There is no such name. Just political jargon to make the weapon"sound" scary.
Any person who had shot both can testify to this.
I'm tired of the political, media driven BS...

He had a 9mm with him. Why did he choose the AR-15? Because he had 30 round clips for it. The coward settled on the 9 when he just needed one bullet.

[AppGrad1]

I guarantee i could do more damage in a mass shooting if i had a semi auto pistol with a10 round clip than any ar-15 could. I can eject the clip and feed another one in about 2 maybe 3 seconds. A pistol is much easier to conceal and navigate.
I'm tired of hearing the "dangers " of these so called assault rifles. There is no such name. Just political jargon to make the weapon"sound" scary.
Any person who had shot both can testify to this.
I'm tired of the political, media driven BS...

He had a 9mm with him. Why did he choose the AR-15? Because he had 30 round clips for it. The coward settled on the 9 when he just needed one bullet.

I'm sure he didn't have multi magazines for the pistol.
I'm just saying person could have done as much killing in that situation with a pistol with several magazines. Plus it would be easier to conceal and wrestle with if needed.
About the only difference in the ar is it's more accurate for longer distance.

[Rekdiver]

I disagree with you entirely...................

The muzzel velocity of a 9mm vs a .223 bushmaster is 2.5 less. 1400 verses 3500 ft per sec.
But I guess it doesn't matter when you are killing 6 year old kids..............Yes it does. And I'm moving from the right to the left on this issue and most of America is right there with me. Enough is enough.

[AppGrad1]

I disagree with you entirely...................

The muzzel velocity of a 9mm vs a .223 bushmaster is 2.5 less. 1400 verses 3500 ft per sec.
But I guess it doesn't matter when you are killing 6 year old kids..............Yes it does. And I'm moving from the right to the left on this issue and most of America is right there with me. Enough is enough.

I disagree with you too. Totally.
Just one more question. Could someone with a pistol with multiple magazines done the same thing even without an ar-15? The answer of course is yes.
Getting rid of ar's is a political move only imo, when others can do the exact same thing with pistols. THESE SHOOTINGS WILL NOT STOP BY GETTING RID OF ARs.
Jmo...

[bcoach]

I disagree with you entirely...................

The muzzel velocity of a 9mm vs a .223 bushmaster is 2.5 less. 1400 verses 3500 ft per sec.
But I guess it doesn't matter when you are killing 6 year old kids..............Yes it does. And I'm moving from the right to the left on this issue and most of America is right there with me. Enough is enough.

I disagree with you too. Totally.
Just one more question. Could someone with a pistol with multiple magazines done the same thing even without an ar-15? The answer of course is yes.
Getting rid of ar's is a political move only imo, when others can do the exact same thing with pistols. THESE SHOOTINGS WILL NOT STOP BY GETTING RID OF ARs.
Jmo...

I am a little confused as to why you are building a case to get rid of pistols also?

[appbio91]

I disagree with you entirely...................

The muzzel velocity of a 9mm vs a .223 bushmaster is 2.5 less. 1400 verses 3500 ft per sec.
But I guess it doesn't matter when you are killing 6 year old kids..............Yes it does. And I'm moving from the right to the left on this issue and most of America is right there with me. Enough is enough.

I disagree with you too. Totally.
Just one more question. Could someone with a pistol with multiple magazines done the same thing even without an ar-15? The answer of course is yes.
Getting rid of ar's is a political move only imo, when others can do the exact same thing with pistols. THESE SHOOTINGS WILL NOT STOP BY GETTING RID OF ARs.
Jmo...

You need to ask yourself why these people dress up in assault gear, body armor and such and then choose an AR to kill people. They have a fantasy about how they want to go out and spraying. bullets with basically an M16 fits the picture. I am going to get really radical here and say that the congress that let the AR ban lapse has blood on their hands (assuming the weapon was purchased in the past 8 years).

[Yosef]

I disagree with you entirely...................

The muzzel velocity of a 9mm vs a .223 bushmaster is 2.5 less. 1400 verses 3500 ft per sec.
But I guess it doesn't matter when you are killing 6 year old kids..............Yes it does. And I'm moving from the right to the left on this issue and most of America is right there with me. Enough is enough.

I disagree with you too. Totally.
Just one more question. Could someone with a pistol with multiple magazines done the same thing even without an ar-15? The answer of course is yes.
Getting rid of ar's is a political move only imo, when others can do the exact same thing with pistols. THESE SHOOTINGS WILL NOT STOP BY GETTING RID OF ARs.
Jmo...

You need to ask yourself why these people dress up in assault gear, body armor and such and then choose an AR to kill people. They have a fantasy about how they want to go out and spraying. bullets with basically an M16 fits the picture. I am going to get really radical here and say that the congress that let the AR ban lapse has blood on their hands (assuming the weapon was purchased in the past 8 years).

By that philosophy you can also say every congress since the expiration has blood on their hands, as they didn't re-institute the ban. I'm not saying whether I'm one way or the other on gun control, but you can't arbitrarily pick one congress and say it's their fault without saying it is also the fault of each congress since then. All of those congresses had the same ability to pass the same law, assuming it's anyone's fault.

I think an argument could be made that it is no one and everyone's fault. The kid had mental issues and our society doesn't treat mental illness, we whisk it away some of the time and ignore it the remainder of the time. To that affect, every person that has ever walked by this kid is at fault for not helping right?

Point is discuss mental health, gun control and all of that jazz, but I don't think trying to place blame on any one person or group of people is productive at all.

[bcoach]

I disagree with you entirely...................

The muzzel velocity of a 9mm vs a .223 bushmaster is 2.5 less. 1400 verses 3500 ft per sec.
But I guess it doesn't matter when you are killing 6 year old kids..............Yes it does. And I'm moving from the right to the left on this issue and most of America is right there with me. Enough is enough.

I disagree with you too. Totally.
Just one more question. Could someone with a pistol with multiple magazines done the same thing even without an ar-15? The answer of course is yes.
Getting rid of ar's is a political move only imo, when others can do the exact same thing with pistols. THESE SHOOTINGS WILL NOT STOP BY GETTING RID OF ARs.
Jmo...

You need to ask yourself why these people dress up in assault gear, body armor and such and then choose an AR to kill people. They have a fantasy about how they want to go out and spraying. bullets with basically an M16 fits the picture. I am going to get really radical here and say that the congress that let the AR ban lapse has blood on their hands (assuming the weapon was purchased in the past 8 years).

By that philosophy you can also say every congress since the expiration has blood on their hands, as they didn't re-institute the ban. I'm not saying whether I'm one way or the other on gun control, but you can't arbitrarily pick one congress and say it's their fault without saying it is also the fault of each congress since then. All of those congresses had the same ability to pass the same law, assuming it's anyone's fault.

I think an argument could be made that it is no one and everyone's fault. The kid had mental issues and our society doesn't treat mental illness, we whisk it away some of the time and ignore it the remainder of the time. To that affect, every person that has ever walked by this kid is at fault for not helping right?

Point is discuss mental health, gun control and all of that jazz, but I don't think trying to place blame on any one person or group of people is productive at all.

I totally agree with our treatment of mental health in this country, and the need to review our gun laws. Actually though there is one person you can lay blame on for using those particular guns and that is his mother. Nobody should have access to your guns but you. NOBODY! If you add the fact that she knew there was something wrong with him it makes for double trouble. I also am not real sure where I fall on gun control any more but in this particular instance there is a fact you can't argue. If she had the guns locked up so that he could not get at them, he could not have used those particular guns.

[ASUMountaineer]

Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Colombine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public...

Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family’s Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

Thank you Moody for posting this. This, perhaps, is the scariest part of these mass shootings for me. I have known people that have gone on small doses of these types of drugs and seen their mood alter to a state where they seem emotionless. I understand the desire to help people cope, but I do believe there are dangerous repercussions for so freely providing these drugs to young people and even kids.

[Rekdiver]

Then take away the guns and the drugs..................We have too much of both. Listen regardless, there is no way that there won't be some restrictive legislation of assault style rifles and high capacity magazines. And how do we know that these guns weren't locked up and the kid found a way to defeat the safe or whatever?

[ASUPATCH]

I guarantee i could do more damage in a mass shooting if i had a semi auto pistol with a10 round clip than any ar-15 could. I can eject the clip and feed another one in about 2 maybe 3 seconds. A pistol is much easier to conceal and navigate.
I'm tired of hearing the "dangers " of these so called assault rifles. There is no such name. Just political jargon to make the weapon"sound" scary.
Any person who had shot both can testify to this.
I'm tired of the political, media driven BS...

He had a 9mm with him. Why did he choose the AR-15? Because he had 30 round clips for it. The coward settled on the 9 when he just needed one bullet.

I'm sure he didn't have multi magazines for the pistol.
I'm just saying person could have done as much killing in that situation with a pistol with several magazines. Plus it would be easier to conceal and wrestle with if needed.
About the only difference in the ar is it's more accurate for longer distance.

So I guess you think that the US military is a bunch of idiots for using the AR in urban combat rathen then a handgun. You can do easily alot more dameage quicker with an AR. More powerful and no reloads over the same time period two reload on a pistol. Also more accurate as it is less prone to trigger pull. Without a 30 round mag we have at least 5 more kids spending Christmas whith their families this year.

[Yosef]

Without a 30 round mag we have at least 5 more kids spending Christmas whith their families this year.

Obviously I wish they all were spending Christmas with their families, but I'm not sure you can easily say that. We will never have any idea how many lives may have been saved if gun laws were different. As has been reported - on the same day in China a man killed 22 children with a knife. My only point is we can assume there would have been less deaths, but in all reality we have no idea.

[ASUPATCH]

Without a 30 round mag we have at least 5 more kids spending Christmas whith their families this year.

Obviously I wish they all were spending Christmas with their families, but I'm not sure you can easily say that. We will never have any idea how many lives may have been saved if gun laws were different. As has been reported - on the same day in China a man killed 22 children with a knife. My only point is we can assume there would have been less deaths, but in all reality we have no idea.

I can say that. I have shot both guns. Ask any gunower like myself if they had to go into a room full of enemy combatants which weapon would use to do more damage quicker and it would be the AR15 with a 30 round mag. Its simple math. Anyone that think a handgun is just as deadly is flat out lying and wrong. If you can pull the trigger on a more powerful more accurate gun in less time you have more bullets hitting more tagets. It is that easy to say. Lastly what puprose does an AR15 with 30 round mag serve the public. You dont shoot a deer 30 times. You arent mugged by more than 1 or 2 people. A gang of 30 men arent going around doing BandE's together. If you arent man enough to defend your home or family with a handgun or shot gun than your not man enoughb to carry a gun in the first place. It is strickly a gun built for killing and in the wrong hands look at what it can do.

[WVAPPeer]

"on the same day in China a man killed 22 children with a knife. "

actually and thankfully all 22 children who were stabbed lived - no deaths

[ASUPATCH]

Without a 30 round mag we have at least 5 more kids spending Christmas whith their families this year.

Obviously I wish they all were spending Christmas with their families, but I'm not sure you can easily say that. We will never have any idea how many lives may have been saved if gun laws were different. As has been reported - on the same day in China a man killed 22 children with a knife. My only point is we can assume there would have been less deaths, but in all reality we have no idea.

Fact Check

Man stabs 22 but kills 0 kids. That is the worst example to say a knife is just as bad as an AR. I know it is terrible for your arguement and only strengthens mine but oh well you brought it up.
http://www.gospelherald.net/article/soc ... ssacre.htm