A Little Perspective

[CornCobPipes]

Why do we need to cut military spending when we can give it away to our enemy.

How many F-16's and what was it 200 tanks plus a little spending cash Obama just gave to the muslim brotherhood? All the money we are just passing out freely to other nations to boot.

Scratching my head

[asumike83]

I've also run across some that actually deserved the help, and werent getting as much as compared to those abusing the aid.

This is a key point to make. In my opinion, many of these government programs are very beneficial in and of themselves. The problem is in how they are used.

The abuse of a relatively small number takes the benefits from those who really need it. I don't know of any way to combat that other than reducing the overall funding, which is a damn shame because it would put a lot of hard working people in a very tough spot.

[GlassOnion]

To say that the two Bush wars are not included in the defense budget is *******. Huge costs are buried there as well as in International Assistance and State Dept budget. Wherever it's hidden, it IS defense and war related. Wars we never paid for by congress.

Congress has ignored recommendations by DOD on weapons spending and made decisions based on selfish reasons. This cuts across party lines so don't throw just Pres Obama under the bus.

"The $80 billion authorized for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is also not included. This amount was approved in a "supplemental" spending bill outside the annual budget authorization. "

http://usforeignpolicy.about.com/od/def ... budget.htm

You can blame the wars on Bush, but defense programs are a favorite target of democrats. Bill Clinton gets credit for balancing the budget, and how? He stripped the military in the peaceful years. After Sept. 2001, you'll remember how our military went into afghanistan, short of body armor, and armored carriers. Families were personally having to buy body armor for their sons, and husbands. The Marines were cannabolising their Vietnam era helos for parts to keep others in the air.

Think about it, our military was unprepared to go into a third world country... the greatest power on earth, unprepared to go into a nation of mud huts and goat herds.

There is more than enough blame to go around, and different people contributed in different ways. I do beielve, that this nation has changed for the worse in the past 10 years. Gone are the days people pulled themselves up by the bootstraps, and imo, that was the hard work and ingenuity that made America special.

[HeffnerIV]

What socialist programs are you referring too?

http://www.aei-ideas.org/2012/07/julias ... -year-job/


That is the crap Im referring to.

Do you have any references or information that isn't from an extremely right wing blog from a very right wing conservative think thank whose board of trustees has included many filthy rich businessmen, insurance company heads, and Dick Chaney?


So what about the millions of people who need the money from these programs just to make ends meet while doing the best they can just to get by?

How about this source?

http://www.barackobama.com/life-of-julia/

[appdaze]

What socialist programs are you referring too?

http://www.aei-ideas.org/2012/07/julias ... -year-job/


That is the crap Im referring to.

Do you have any references or information that isn't from an extremely right wing blog from a very right wing conservative think thank whose board of trustees has included many filthy rich businessmen, insurance company heads, and Dick Chaney?


So what about the millions of people who need the money from these programs just to make ends meet while doing the best they can just to get by?

How about this source?

http://www.barackobama.com/life-of-julia/

What is the point of posting that link? It doesn't refer to what Glass and I were talking about. You just linked an obama campaign site. The stats used in the link from Glass are from that secretary and other sources. Linking the obama site doesn't really serve any purpose so I'm not sure why are you doing it. Can you give some explanation?

[GlassOnion]

I've just realized, we've made it 2 pages in a somewhat political thread without getting too worked up. In previous years that may have been the norm, but in present clime, I think we all deserve a "well done!"

[HeffnerIV]

You may want to check both links again. The story he linked to was a breakdown of the cartoon posted on the Obama Campaign site that I linked- The Life of Julia

[Saint3333]

I got news for Julia 60 years from now social security will not exist.

[HeffnerIV]

I got news for Julia 60 years from now social security will not exist.

And it's further conformation that fathers are deemed useless in certain sects of our society

[Saint3333]

Have no fear the government is here to save us.

This latest round was great they cut $1 of spending for every $40 a increased tax revenue. Good job elected officials. Is math taught in schools?

[Watauga72]

, Bush decides to invade Afghanistan to remove the Taliban. He then decides to invade Iraq, allocating valuable military resources and funds to a questionable military and nation building effort that could have been directed towards Afghanistan. And he does this without seeking additional revenues to pay for two wars .... And somehow the shortage of proper equipment is Clinton's fault? Ok, you've convinced me.

[GlassOnion]

, Bush decides to invade Afghanistan to remove the Taliban. He then decides to invade Iraq, allocating valuable military resources and funds to a questionable military and nation building effort that could have been directed towards Afghanistan. And he does this without seeking additional revenues to pay for two wars .... And somehow the shortage of proper equipment is Clinton's fault? Ok, you've convinced me.

The military going into Afghanistan was short of proper equipment. That was in 2001, not even a year into Bush's term. The Iraq war didnt start until 2003. In 2001, the military did not have the proper equipment to run just afghanistan. There was no 2nd war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_b ... ted_States

On this site, halfway down, is a chart of defense budgets by year, adjusted for inflation. You will see that 1998, Clinton's 2nd term, the defense dept budget is lower than its been since 1962.

[JCline0429]

This is a very interesting thread, but I thought Glenn was discouraging political rhetoric.

The whole point of this board is to allow people to discuss things of interest to them. It is primarily for ASU discussion, but this is a unique occurrence in most of our lifetimes. As long as it stays civil, there's no reason to remove it.

I stand corrected.

[ASUMountaineer]

Why is military spending off the table? Should it be? Our military budget in 2012 was roughly equivalent to the next 15 nations COMBINED spending! Seems there might be some room for cuts.

When you ask 2% of the population to risk their lives in the interest of the 98%, for their safety, for freedom, to trade both at home and overseas, to protect Americans wherever they may be on this globe, they SHOULD be provided with THE VERY BEST, bar NONE. Whatever increases that 2%'s chances of coming home, is worth it. If I must spend $5,000 on body armor for every single one of our Airmen, Sailors, Soldiers and Marines to stop a $5 bullet from a $150 AK-47 POS, then so be it.

A great way to accomplish this would be to not enter unnecessary wars. That would save blood and treasure.

[Appsolutely]

Why is military spending off the table? Should it be? Our military budget in 2012 was roughly equivalent to the next 15 nations COMBINED spending! Seems there might be some room for cuts.

When you ask 2% of the population to risk their lives in the interest of the 98%, for their safety, for freedom, to trade both at home and overseas, to protect Americans wherever they may be on this globe, they SHOULD be provided with THE VERY BEST, bar NONE. Whatever increases that 2%'s chances of coming home, is worth it. If I must spend $5,000 on body armor for every single one of our Airmen, Sailors, Soldiers and Marines to stop a $5 bullet from a $150 AK-47 POS, then so be it.

A great way to accomplish this would be to not enter unnecessary wars. That would save blood and treasure.

Yes. A thousand times. Yes.
And get the hell out of Afghanistan ASAP.

[ASUMountaineer]

To say that the two Bush wars are not included in the defense budget is *******. Huge costs are buried there as well as in International Assistance and State Dept budget. Wherever it's hidden, it IS defense and war related. Wars we never paid for by congress.

Congress has ignored recommendations by DOD on weapons spending and made decisions based on selfish reasons. This cuts across party lines so don't throw just Pres Obama under the bus.

"The $80 billion authorized for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is also not included. This amount was approved in a "supplemental" spending bill outside the annual budget authorization. "

http://usforeignpolicy.about.com/od/def ... budget.htm

You can blame the wars on Bush, but defense programs are a favorite target of democrats. Bill Clinton gets credit for balancing the budget, and how? He stripped the military in the peaceful years. After Sept. 2001, you'll remember how our military went into afghanistan, short of body armor, and armored carriers. Families were personally having to buy body armor for their sons, and husbands. The Marines were cannabolising their Vietnam era helos for parts to keep others in the air.

Think about it, our military was unprepared to go into a third world country... the greatest power on earth, unprepared to go into a nation of mud huts and goat herds.

There is more than enough blame to go around, and different people contributed in different ways. I do beielve, that this nation has changed for the worse in the past 10 years. Gone are the days people pulled themselves up by the bootstraps, and imo, that was the hard work and ingenuity that made America special.

Assuming the stat posted here, that the US defense budget is the size of the next 15 countries combined, how is it that we were so woefully unprepared to invade a third world country? Are you implying that the defense budget needs to be increased even more? Or, is it possible that the budget allocated to the DoD is mismanaged and pet projects are causing our brave heroes to be short-changed on the battlefield?

[JCline0429]

Why is military spending off the table? Should it be? Our military budget in 2012 was roughly equivalent to the next 15 nations COMBINED spending! Seems there might be some room for cuts.

When you ask 2% of the population to risk their lives in the interest of the 98%, for their safety, for freedom, to trade both at home and overseas, to protect Americans wherever they may be on this globe, they SHOULD be provided with THE VERY BEST, bar NONE. Whatever increases that 2%'s chances of coming home, is worth it. If I must spend $5,000 on body armor for every single one of our Airmen, Sailors, Soldiers and Marines to stop a $5 bullet from a $150 AK-47 POS, then so be it.

A great way to accomplish this would be to not enter unnecessary wars. That would save blood and treasure.

The problem lies in what various people consider necessary wars. If we had not gone into Kuwait in the first gulf war, we would all be up the creek in a screen wire boat.

[GlassOnion]

Assuming the stat posted here, that the US defense budget is the size of the next 15 countries combined, how is it that we were so woefully unprepared to invade a third world country? Are you implying that the defense budget needs to be increased even more? Or, is it possible that the budget allocated to the DoD is mismanaged and pet projects are causing our brave heroes to be short-changed on the battlefield?

Im saying that there are very serious pressing needs in our military that have not been met, either by neglect or cuts. For example, The Airforce is in desperate need of modern aircraft. Theyre flying the same aircraft they flew in Vietnam in many cases, not the same type of aircraft, the same aircraft with 4x the lifetime flight hours it was designed to take. Some pilots are flying the same planes their grandfathers flew in. It takes about a decade to develop replacements, and somehow, theyre always cancelled before delivery by change in party or budget cuts, or combination of both. The latest being the F-22. The cargo fleet is the same way. Meanwhile, there are certain countries in the middle of massive buildups, and using our own latest technology.

And of course the government is mismanaged. If they can clean up some programs and can update at current levels fine, but we're lagging so far behind in equipment, I seriously doubt they can do it with cuts. Clinton cut the military drastically, Bush wasted resources on wars, and our current POTUS is cutting drastically again. Thats 20 years of no resources, or wasted resources. Somebody needs to put on their big boy pants and get the job done.

And I know youre not going to believe me just because I tell you, so please do some research on it yourself. I cant get into this argument, because this is an area where I have some really strong feelings and some serious misgivings. And this isnt just limited to things Ive read. I'll see you guys on the football board.

And I understand your hate for war, I hate it too. Its very real to me. Its just that I believe in being strong enough to prevent them, or to end them quickly. There are differing opinions Im sure.

[JCline0429]

To say that the two Bush wars are not included in the defense budget is *******. Huge costs are buried there as well as in International Assistance and State Dept budget. Wherever it's hidden, it IS defense and war related. Wars we never paid for by congress.

Congress has ignored recommendations by DOD on weapons spending and made decisions based on selfish reasons. This cuts across party lines so don't throw just Pres Obama under the bus.

"The $80 billion authorized for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is also not included. This amount was approved in a "supplemental" spending bill outside the annual budget authorization. "

http://usforeignpolicy.about.com/od/def ... budget.htm

You can blame the wars on Bush, but defense programs are a favorite target of democrats. Bill Clinton gets credit for balancing the budget, and how? He stripped the military in the peaceful years. After Sept. 2001, you'll remember how our military went into afghanistan, short of body armor, and armored carriers. Families were personally having to buy body armor for their sons, and husbands. The Marines were cannabolising their Vietnam era helos for parts to keep others in the air.

Think about it, our military was unprepared to go into a third world country... the greatest power on earth, unprepared to go into a nation of mud huts and goat herds.

There is more than enough blame to go around, and different people contributed in different ways. I do beielve, that this nation has changed for the worse in the past 10 years. Gone are the days people pulled themselves up by the bootstraps, and imo, that was the hard work and ingenuity that made America special.

Clinton also was able to balance the budget because the Republican Congress kept his feet to the fire. I don't approve of some of the ways they did it, but still.

[ASUMountaineer]

Assuming the stat posted here, that the US defense budget is the size of the next 15 countries combined, how is it that we were so woefully unprepared to invade a third world country? Are you implying that the defense budget needs to be increased even more? Or, is it possible that the budget allocated to the DoD is mismanaged and pet projects are causing our brave heroes to be short-changed on the battlefield?

Im saying that there are very serious pressing needs in our military that have not been met, either by neglect or cuts. For example, The Airforce is in desperate need of modern aircraft. Theyre flying the same aircraft they flew in Vietnam in many cases, not the same type of aircraft, the same aircraft with 4x the lifetime flight hours it was designed to take. Some pilots are flying the same planes their grandfathers flew in. It takes about a decade to develop replacements, and somehow, theyre always cancelled before delivery by change in party or budget cuts, or combination of both. The latest being the F-22. The cargo fleet is the same way. Meanwhile, there are certain countries in the middle of massive buildups, and using our own latest technology.

And of course the government is mismanaged. If they can clean up some programs and can update at current levels fine, but we're lagging so far behind in equipment, I seriously doubt they can do it with cuts. Clinton cut the military drastically, Bush wasted resources on wars, and our current POTUS is cutting drastically again. Thats 20 years of no resources, or wasted resources. Somebody needs to put on their big boy pants and get the job done.

And I know youre not going to believe me just because I tell you, so please do some research on it yourself. I cant get into this argument, because this is an area where I have some really strong feelings and some serious misgivings. And this isnt just limited to things Ive read. I'll see you guys on the football board.

And I understand your hate for war, I hate it too. Its very real to me. Its just that I believe in being strong enough to prevent them, or to end them quickly. There are differing opinions Im sure.

Please don't assume this. For the most part I agree with you, but I'm not sure just throwing money at it will help. I wholeheartedly agree that we need statesmen (not politicians) that will put on their big boy pants and make the tough calls to get things done.