Free Throws

[PhillyApp1]

For some reason people are inferring from some expressed concern about our FT% that those people are either negative about the team, miss the big picture, or don't think Kerns knows what he's doing. I have seen none of that from those folks. I believe everyone on this board is excited about what this team has accomplished to date and what hopefully it is yet to accomplish. It has put its place in the company of the best we've ever had and may wind up the best we've ever had. That, however, doesn't make it wrong to wish we could shoot a higher % of FTs. Would I change it for Abson's ability to alter shots? No! Would I change it for the depth this team has? No. Its not about substituting one thing for another. I'm happy with this team but I do Hwish they were a little better from the foul line. I don't believe its a fatal flaw and to date it hasn't been an issue and hopefully won't be.

For the record over the last four games we are shooting 72% from the line.
Gregory is 12-19 (63% but that counts his 4-9 in the Toledo game, otherwise he is hitting 80%)
Marsh is 14-15 (93%)
Harcum is 8-10 (80%)
Tate is 9-13 (69%)

Our primary ball handlers and those we expect to handle the ball in late game situations are shooting a combined 75% over the last four games. We would seem to be in good hands (even Abson and Brown were 4-4 v. UL).

“ For some reason people are inferring from some expressed concern about our FT% that those people are either negative about the team, miss the big picture, or don't think Kerns knows what he's doing. I have seen none of that from those folks.”

There have been at least 2 instances of different posters saying “we WILL lose a game because of missed free throws.” (Emphasis mine) I’ve pushed back against that because teams almost never lose games because of free throws. Then, some of those same posters took what I said and claimed “some folks on this board think free throws don’t even matter!” And they did some snide subbing a few times when players missed big free throws.

It may not have been you, but what I quoted above HAS been said or insinuated on this board.

I belong to hapApp Sunshine Club

As stated before to many negative fundamentals will not win most big games..... and then there is luck

[Bigdaddyg1]

For some reason people are inferring from some expressed concern about our FT% that those people are either negative about the team, miss the big picture, or don't think Kerns knows what he's doing. I have seen none of that from those folks. I believe everyone on this board is excited about what this team has accomplished to date and what hopefully it is yet to accomplish. It has put its place in the company of the best we've ever had and may wind up the best we've ever had. That, however, doesn't make it wrong to wish we could shoot a higher % of FTs. Would I change it for Abson's ability to alter shots? No! Would I change it for the depth this team has? No. Its not about substituting one thing for another. I'm happy with this team but I do Hwish they were a little better from the foul line. I don't believe its a fatal flaw and to date it hasn't been an issue and hopefully won't be.

For the record over the last four games we are shooting 72% from the line.
Gregory is 12-19 (63% but that counts his 4-9 in the Toledo game, otherwise he is hitting 80%)
Marsh is 14-15 (93%)
Harcum is 8-10 (80%)
Tate is 9-13 (69%)

Our primary ball handlers and those we expect to handle the ball in late game situations are shooting a combined 75% over the last four games. We would seem to be in good hands (even Abson and Brown were 4-4 v. UL).

“ For some reason people are inferring from some expressed concern about our FT% that those people are either negative about the team, miss the big picture, or don't think Kerns knows what he's doing. I have seen none of that from those folks.”

There have been at least 2 instances of different posters saying “we WILL lose a game because of missed free throws.” (Emphasis mine) I’ve pushed back against that because teams almost never lose games because of free throws. Then, some of those same posters took what I said and claimed “some folks on this board think free throws don’t even matter!” And they did some snide subbing a few times when players missed big free throws.

It may not have been you, but what I quoted above HAS been said or insinuated on this board.

Throughout all of this silly debate I've tried to think of something comparable in football but it's difficult. The only thing I can come up with is maybe FG kicking. Some would say that "we lost that game due to a missed FG" or the opposite. The only way I can see that is if the game is 3-0. Otherwise look back at missed opportunities during the game that remove the kicker from the equation. Kicking is part of the game but, as in one of our games last year you really don't want the outcome to be decided that way. It's easy to point to made or missed free throws late in games as they are magnified. Many a time a team can salt away a game by playing defense, not turning the ball over late, not getting a shot clock violation or by taking better shots.

[App_in_Maiden]

I feel somewhat responsible for all of this because I did say free throws will cost us games down the road back on 1/25 against southern. Here is the reason behind that:

When you get into tournament time where each game is win or go home and we are in the final minutes of a close game, it always comes down to free throws. If we can’t hit them when it matters, we will lose games. Every one on here saying all the other items matter too, i.e. turnovers, scoring droughts, etc. are spot on. However, we have seen plenty of games in tournaments where when one team doesn’t make their free throws in crunch time, end up losing a game.

That wasn’t me being negative, I was just pointing out a concern. They have vastly improved and this is the best team I’ve seen since I started at App back in 06. I want to see this team make the big dance and can see them winning a few games.

[Saint3333]

Summing this up. No play is to blame for a loss nor is any play credited for a win. All can be overcome by others.

Until they can’t.

[BambooRdApp]

They are Freebies... Does anything else really needed to said?

[Cro-Magnon App]

When looking at stats, I always look at the margins. The chart shows our team is 5+ in rebounding, 5+ in blocked shots and have a few less turnovers overall. These are the things we do well. I always look at rebounding. The best way to be a good rebounding team is to recruit good rebounders - same can be said for other skills, but rebounding is a difficult skill to teach and not many coaches spend a lot of time on it.

[Rekdiver]

You know why God made butts? To block out!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cro-Magnon App]

I hear you, rek! Correct.

As a long time coach, 40 years, we always had a couple of rebounding drills on the practice schedule. Some players didn’t particularly like those drills, and it’s hard to simulate game rebounding situations in drills, but whether the techniques were effective might be questionable, but what I wanted was for rebounding at both ends to always be on their minds.

[Bigdaddyg1]

Abson changing his stance on the line to spread his feet has been a dramatic improvement. Now if X would not simply throw the ball at the goal he might improve as well.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

You have to look a bit further into this. The outcome of the first free throw is important for those that are 1&1 opportunities for fouls 7-9. A miss on the first creates an automatic Miss on the second since the second one doesn’t occur.

But statistically the 2nd shot never occurred so it is not part of our FF stats.

[AppSt94]

You have to look a bit further into this. The outcome of the first free throw is important for those that are 1&1 opportunities for fouls 7-9. A miss on the first creates an automatic Miss on the second since the second one doesn’t occur.

But statistically the 2nd shot never occurred so it is not part of our FF stats.

Yes and no. You are correct in that it does not count as a miss in the data as it never takes place. However, it does count in terms of the outcome of the first shot creates the second shot’s existence, or lack of. In a 1&1 situation, the outcome of the first shot is a variable. A make creates a second opportunity. A miss changes the possibilities to a 0 for the second shot. In other words, we can look at each miss as a lost opportunity for a point. But how many of those misses created an additional lost opportunity to get a point with a second attempt. There are 6 opportunities for a 1&1 from the line per game. We have played what, 28 games. That’s 168 potential points on a second FT that are affected by the outcome of the first 168 attempts.How many of those 1st 168 were missed?

[mike87]

You have to look a bit further into this. The outcome of the first free throw is important for those that are 1&1 opportunities for fouls 7-9. A miss on the first creates an automatic Miss on the second since the second one doesn’t occur.

But statistically the 2nd shot never occurred so it is not part of our FF stats.

Yes and no. You are correct in that it does not count as a miss in the data as it never takes place. However, it does count in terms of the outcome of the first shot creates the second shot’s existence, or lack of. In a 1&1 situation, the outcome of the first shot is a variable. A make creates a second opportunity. A miss changes the possibilities to a 0 for the second shot. In other words, we can look at each miss as a lost opportunity for a point. But how many of those misses created an additional lost opportunity to get a point with a second attempt. There are 6 opportunities for a 1&1 from the line per game. We have played what, 28 games. That’s 168 potential points on a second FT that are affected by the outcome of the first 168 attempts.How many of those 1st 168 were missed?

If we get the rebound and score off the missed 1st shot on a 1&1 we gain a point. Does that credit against the 2nd shot (creating a freebee on the variable free throw)? Or does it carry over to the next opportunity.

[AppSt94]

You have to look a bit further into this. The outcome of the first free throw is important for those that are 1&1 opportunities for fouls 7-9. A miss on the first creates an automatic Miss on the second since the second one doesn’t occur.

But statistically the 2nd shot never occurred so it is not part of our FF stats.

Yes and no. You are correct in that it does not count as a miss in the data as it never takes place. However, it does count in terms of the outcome of the first shot creates the second shot’s existence, or lack of. In a 1&1 situation, the outcome of the first shot is a variable. A make creates a second opportunity. A miss changes the possibilities to a 0 for the second shot. In other words, we can look at each miss as a lost opportunity for a point. But how many of those misses created an additional lost opportunity to get a point with a second attempt. There are 6 opportunities for a 1&1 from the line per game. We have played what, 28 games. That’s 168 potential points on a second FT that are affected by the outcome of the first 168 attempts.How many of those 1st 168 were missed?

If we get the rebound and score off the missed 1st shot on a 1&1 we gain a point. Does that credit against the 2nd shot (creating a freebee on the variable free throw)? Or does it carry over to the next opportunity.

It’s an interesting scenario and I applaud you good sir for thinking of it in those terms. Based of what you are saying, an offensive rebound off a missed front end that results in a bucket would count the same as making both FTs. So it washes in terms of production per possession.

[Bigdaddyg1]

You have to look a bit further into this. The outcome of the first free throw is important for those that are 1&1 opportunities for fouls 7-9. A miss on the first creates an automatic Miss on the second since the second one doesn’t occur.

But statistically the 2nd shot never occurred so it is not part of our FF stats.

Yes and no. You are correct in that it does not count as a miss in the data as it never takes place. However, it does count in terms of the outcome of the first shot creates the second shot’s existence, or lack of. In a 1&1 situation, the outcome of the first shot is a variable. A make creates a second opportunity. A miss changes the possibilities to a 0 for the second shot. In other words, we can look at each miss as a lost opportunity for a point. But how many of those misses created an additional lost opportunity to get a point with a second attempt. There are 6 opportunities for a 1&1 from the line per game. We have played what, 28 games. That’s 168 potential points on a second FT that are affected by the outcome of the first 168 attempts.How many of those 1st 168 were missed?

It's easy to look at what if scenarios and with this stat extrapolate the numbers out to a terrible situation but in reality our talent and specifically our defense has easily taken care of any deficiency at the line. Thursday night we went 13-21. Had we made just 3 more shots that's 75% and the comments drop off. The announcers in that game went overboard in mentioning our stats and seemed to bring up the numbers for every player. You would think that we shoot 50 free throws a game and succeed on the 66% rate. As has been mentioned several times the difference in sucking (as we appear to do) and being in the top 100 nationally is 3 more made per game. When you ignore the percentage and focus on the numbers themselves it's not nearly the issue some make it out to be. I've even looked at some play by play from games and rarely on misses have we allowed baskets.

[scatman77]

You know why God made butts? To block out!!!!!!!!!!!

And I always taught my big boys that God made elbows to make sure your butt gets all the help it can get. A well-placed elbow discreetly placed into a chest or a kidney can work wonders.

Disclaimer: I never taught my boys to be dirty; only aggressive.

[AppSt94]

You have to look a bit further into this. The outcome of the first free throw is important for those that are 1&1 opportunities for fouls 7-9. A miss on the first creates an automatic Miss on the second since the second one doesn’t occur.

But statistically the 2nd shot never occurred so it is not part of our FF stats.

Yes and no. You are correct in that it does not count as a miss in the data as it never takes place. However, it does count in terms of the outcome of the first shot creates the second shot’s existence, or lack of. In a 1&1 situation, the outcome of the first shot is a variable. A make creates a second opportunity. A miss changes the possibilities to a 0 for the second shot. In other words, we can look at each miss as a lost opportunity for a point. But how many of those misses created an additional lost opportunity to get a point with a second attempt. There are 6 opportunities for a 1&1 from the line per game. We have played what, 28 games. That’s 168 potential points on a second FT that are affected by the outcome of the first 168 attempts.How many of those 1st 168 were missed?

It's easy to look at what if scenarios and with this stat extrapolate the numbers out to a terrible situation but in reality our talent and specifically our defense has easily taken care of any deficiency at the line. Thursday night we went 13-21. Had we made just 3 more shots that's 75% and the comments drop off. The announcers in that game went overboard in mentioning our stats and seemed to bring up the numbers for every player. You would think that we shoot 50 free throws a game and succeed on the 66% rate. As has been mentioned several times the difference in sucking (as we appear to do) and being in the top 100 nationally is 3 more made per game. When you ignore the percentage and focus on the numbers themselves it's not nearly the issue some make it out to be. I've even looked at some play by play from games and rarely on misses have we allowed baskets.

Absolutely. Stats need context. Which goes back to my original comment about people tend to find the one thing that is a struggle without looking for the context. Abson is a shot blocking machine but what is more impressive is the number of blocks that he keeps in play. He turns those blocks into what amounts to a turnover even though they are counted as such.

[T-Dog]

You know why God made butts? To block out!!!!!!!!!!!

Ike Butts certainly blocked out several SoCon foes.

[goapps93]

Free throws matter when they matter. When close games are on the line at the end, the focus is on fouling the poorest free throw shooters. There's a reason for that. Close games can be won or lost on the free throw line.

[BambooRdApp]

Free throws...we still talking about free throws...not a three point shot...free throws...we still talking about free throws

[AppSt94]

Free throws...we still talking about free throws...not a three point shot...free throws...we still talking about free throws