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Free Throws

BambooRdApp
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Re: Free Throws

Unread post by BambooRdApp » Tue Feb 20, 2024 10:23 am

Rekdiver wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:39 am
Just like the last missed pass in the end zone fT's misses are magnified....Easy stat to blame. Turnovers, fouls, defensive lapses and missed shots from the field lose games.
Especially when the referee does not call PI on a DB in the end zone at Chapel Hill....🤣🤣🤣🤣
Today I Give My All For Appalachian State!!
#FreeMillerHillForMoMoney!!
#SleeveStripesWereTheBomb!!
#99ForPresident!!

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Re: Free Throws

Unread post by hapapp » Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:02 am

AppSt94 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:37 am
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:05 am
AppStFan1 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:34 am
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:45 pm
appvette wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:36 pm
Amazing how much attention this has gotten. We have made 99 more free throws this year than our opponents. If we averaged just one additional made free throw per game, we would be slightly above average instead of below average FT%. One single point.
Amazing isn't it? The guys who continually look for the negative in every sport can't get past the percentage without considering the totals. Those same guys picked apart Ryan Burger's passing stats from a couple of drives in the one short amount of time he played in one single game. Or the TV announcers who bring up season stats in the second game of a season. We have 9 guys who play and really only 2 who had been abysmal so our team numbers have been low. You would think that all 9 dudes stink. The two who struggled most of the season have improved but like a GPA that starts out at a 2.0 it's hard to bring it up to a 3.0 without several semesters of 4.0. Basically we need to shoot 19-20 for the next 5 games to get to 70% or so. Just keep improving and we will be fine.
Very good point. As I mentioned before we have really just had 2 guys struggle from free throw line. The rest of the team has done well and even those two have gotten better like you said. There is not doubt this team has improved and is not anywhere near the same team that lost to NIU, Oregon State, and Asheville.
I'll also like the typical negative guy football complaint- if we don't beat Elon by 50 instead of just 24 we have huge problems, our coaches are terrible and our program is in decline. It's so easy to steamroll every opponent (home or away) in basketball by 25, shoot 60% from the field and 80% from the line..every game.
People just like to complain about the stuff that gives them a negative feeling or doesn’t meet that preconceived expectations because it clouds their ability to see the big picture. I guess it somehow makes them feel better.
But, the big picture is made of many small ones and free throws are one component that makes up the big picture. We have been good enough in those other components to make up for a slightly below average FT percentage. The suggestion that keeps being made is that some folks are letting that concern cloud their look at the big picture. I don't think anyone here has taken that stance. Because several folks cite that as a concern doesn't mean they take away from all that this team has accomplished. I'm going to assume everyone here wishes we were better at making free throws. To express a concern about something on the court doesn't mean someone is being negative about the team, coach, or program.

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Re: Free Throws

Unread post by hapapp » Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:12 am

MrCraig wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:00 am
I’ve been dragged on here a couple times for suggesting that games are NOT won or lost at the free throw line.
1. The name is misleading. A “free” throw is not even close to the easiest shot to make, even unguarded.
2. Most championship teams are simply average FT% teams, and the difference between average and below average is usually 1-2 FTs
3. Like a power hitting baseball player who strikes out a lot, a deficiency in one aspect of the game can be overcome by proficiency in another.
4. There seems to be a possible correlation between folks who lose their minds over free throws, folks who think players shoot too many 3s these days, and just plain old folks. I think there’s a sizable middle area in that 3-circle Venn diagram.
Every player on our team except for two, have a higher FT% than they do FG%. Other than perhaps an unguarded layup, it is the easier shot to make. Free throws obviously are more important in a close game than one in which a team is up by double digits. We haven't lost a game because of missed free throws and hopefully that doesn't happen. And, no a team doesn't lose a game just because they miss a free throw or five. Other errors throughout the game contribute to the outcome but to express a desire that we shoot better from the line is not losing one's mind.

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Re: Free Throws

Unread post by Bigdaddyg1 » Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:16 am

hapapp wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:02 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:37 am
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:05 am
AppStFan1 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:34 am
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:45 pm


Amazing isn't it? The guys who continually look for the negative in every sport can't get past the percentage without considering the totals. Those same guys picked apart Ryan Burger's passing stats from a couple of drives in the one short amount of time he played in one single game. Or the TV announcers who bring up season stats in the second game of a season. We have 9 guys who play and really only 2 who had been abysmal so our team numbers have been low. You would think that all 9 dudes stink. The two who struggled most of the season have improved but like a GPA that starts out at a 2.0 it's hard to bring it up to a 3.0 without several semesters of 4.0. Basically we need to shoot 19-20 for the next 5 games to get to 70% or so. Just keep improving and we will be fine.
Very good point. As I mentioned before we have really just had 2 guys struggle from free throw line. The rest of the team has done well and even those two have gotten better like you said. There is not doubt this team has improved and is not anywhere near the same team that lost to NIU, Oregon State, and Asheville.
I'll also like the typical negative guy football complaint- if we don't beat Elon by 50 instead of just 24 we have huge problems, our coaches are terrible and our program is in decline. It's so easy to steamroll every opponent (home or away) in basketball by 25, shoot 60% from the field and 80% from the line..every game.
People just like to complain about the stuff that gives them a negative feeling or doesn’t meet that preconceived expectations because it clouds their ability to see the big picture. I guess it somehow makes them feel better.
But, the big picture is made of many small ones and free throws are one component that makes up the big picture. We have been good enough in those other components to make up for a slightly below average FT percentage. The suggestion that keeps being made is that some folks are letting that concern cloud their look at the big picture. I don't think anyone here has taken that stance. Because several folks cite that as a concern doesn't mean they take away from all that this team has accomplished. I'm going to assume everyone here wishes we were better at making free throws. To express a concern about something on the court doesn't mean someone is being negative about the team, coach, or program.
I think that this entire lengthy discussion/debate/name calling started when a few said that our poor free throw shooting was going to cost us a game. One of the most over used expressions is "games are won and lost at the free throw line". Games are won and lost due to every aspect of the game. The extreme gloom and doom guys have exaggerated our line performance without taking into consideration the numbers. If you have a bad defensive team or one who turns the ball over the margin for error is tighter. We shoot the ball generally well, don't foul excessively to put our opponents on the line and for the most part don't turn the ball over. We also block or alter lots of shots. Since we are solid in those phases a couple of extra misses at the line really don't affect us that much. As has been pointed out if we had averaged just one more make per game- that's one point per game our average would push us up 100 spots nationally. If we went to the line 50 times a game and shot 66% that would have resulted in a tremendous number of opportunities for our opponents. At around 20 times with a average of 7 misses that's very few chances for points off of misses for the other teams. Free throws are important but that minuscule percentage difference between bad and average and even good is negligible.

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Re: Free Throws

Unread post by 311neers » Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:20 am

hapapp wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:12 am
MrCraig wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:00 am
I’ve been dragged on here a couple times for suggesting that games are NOT won or lost at the free throw line.
1. The name is misleading. A “free” throw is not even close to the easiest shot to make, even unguarded.
2. Most championship teams are simply average FT% teams, and the difference between average and below average is usually 1-2 FTs
3. Like a power hitting baseball player who strikes out a lot, a deficiency in one aspect of the game can be overcome by proficiency in another.
4. There seems to be a possible correlation between folks who lose their minds over free throws, folks who think players shoot too many 3s these days, and just plain old folks. I think there’s a sizable middle area in that 3-circle Venn diagram.
Every player on our team except for two, have a higher FT% than they do FG%. Other than perhaps an unguarded layup, it is the easier shot to make. Free throws obviously are more important in a close game than one in which a team is up by double digits. We haven't lost a game because of missed free throws and hopefully that doesn't happen. And, no a team doesn't lose a game just because they miss a free throw or five. Other errors throughout the game contribute to the outcome but to express a desire that we shoot better from the line is not losing one's mind.
This whole conversation started when Donovan missed 2 with 1 second left on the clock in a tie-game. If we were down 1 and he missed 2...this board would have been mayhem. We just haven't been bitten by the bad FT bug yet. Knock on wood.

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Re: Free Throws

Unread post by hapapp » Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:25 am

Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:16 am
hapapp wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:02 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:37 am
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:05 am
AppStFan1 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:34 am


Very good point. As I mentioned before we have really just had 2 guys struggle from free throw line. The rest of the team has done well and even those two have gotten better like you said. There is not doubt this team has improved and is not anywhere near the same team that lost to NIU, Oregon State, and Asheville.
I'll also like the typical negative guy football complaint- if we don't beat Elon by 50 instead of just 24 we have huge problems, our coaches are terrible and our program is in decline. It's so easy to steamroll every opponent (home or away) in basketball by 25, shoot 60% from the field and 80% from the line..every game.
People just like to complain about the stuff that gives them a negative feeling or doesn’t meet that preconceived expectations because it clouds their ability to see the big picture. I guess it somehow makes them feel better.
But, the big picture is made of many small ones and free throws are one component that makes up the big picture. We have been good enough in those other components to make up for a slightly below average FT percentage. The suggestion that keeps being made is that some folks are letting that concern cloud their look at the big picture. I don't think anyone here has taken that stance. Because several folks cite that as a concern doesn't mean they take away from all that this team has accomplished. I'm going to assume everyone here wishes we were better at making free throws. To express a concern about something on the court doesn't mean someone is being negative about the team, coach, or program.
I think that this entire lengthy discussion/debate/name calling started when a few said that our poor free throw shooting was going to cost us a game. One of the most over used expressions is "games are won and lost at the free throw line". Games are won and lost due to every aspect of the game. The extreme gloom and doom guys have exaggerated our line performance without taking into consideration the numbers. If you have a bad defensive team or one who turns the ball over the margin for error is tighter. We shoot the ball generally well, don't foul excessively to put our opponents on the line and for the most part don't turn the ball over. We also block or alter lots of shots. Since we are solid in those phases a couple of extra misses at the line really don't affect us that much. As has been pointed out if we had averaged just one more make per game- that's one point per game our average would push us up 100 spots nationally. If we went to the line 50 times a game and shot 66% that would have resulted in a tremendous number of opportunities for our opponents. At around 20 times with a average of 7 misses that's very few chances for points off of misses for the other teams. Free throws are important but that minuscule percentage difference between bad and average and even good is negligible.
And obviously, it depends on who is shooting them. Fortunately, for us the guys usually handling the ball at the end are 70%+ at the line.

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Re: Free Throws

Unread post by Saint3333 » Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:26 am

I would love nothing more than a last minute free throw MAKE wins us a game over the next three weeks.

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Re: Free Throws

Unread post by appvette » Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:50 am

311neers wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:20 am
hapapp wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:12 am
MrCraig wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:00 am
I’ve been dragged on here a couple times for suggesting that games are NOT won or lost at the free throw line.
1. The name is misleading. A “free” throw is not even close to the easiest shot to make, even unguarded.
2. Most championship teams are simply average FT% teams, and the difference between average and below average is usually 1-2 FTs
3. Like a power hitting baseball player who strikes out a lot, a deficiency in one aspect of the game can be overcome by proficiency in another.
4. There seems to be a possible correlation between folks who lose their minds over free throws, folks who think players shoot too many 3s these days, and just plain old folks. I think there’s a sizable middle area in that 3-circle Venn diagram.
Every player on our team except for two, have a higher FT% than they do FG%. Other than perhaps an unguarded layup, it is the easier shot to make. Free throws obviously are more important in a close game than one in which a team is up by double digits. We haven't lost a game because of missed free throws and hopefully that doesn't happen. And, no a team doesn't lose a game just because they miss a free throw or five. Other errors throughout the game contribute to the outcome but to express a desire that we shoot better from the line is not losing one's mind.
This whole conversation started when Donovan missed 2 with 1 second left on the clock in a tie-game. If we were down 1 and he missed 2...this board would have been mayhem. We just haven't been bitten by the bad FT bug yet. Knock on wood.
Even in that scenario, Gregory is an above average FT shooter and best on the team. But even 90% guys miss. So, you still couldn't blame our overall low average in that situation.

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Re: Free Throws

Unread post by AppSt94 » Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:10 pm

hapapp wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:02 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:37 am
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:05 am
AppStFan1 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:34 am
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:45 pm


Amazing isn't it? The guys who continually look for the negative in every sport can't get past the percentage without considering the totals. Those same guys picked apart Ryan Burger's passing stats from a couple of drives in the one short amount of time he played in one single game. Or the TV announcers who bring up season stats in the second game of a season. We have 9 guys who play and really only 2 who had been abysmal so our team numbers have been low. You would think that all 9 dudes stink. The two who struggled most of the season have improved but like a GPA that starts out at a 2.0 it's hard to bring it up to a 3.0 without several semesters of 4.0. Basically we need to shoot 19-20 for the next 5 games to get to 70% or so. Just keep improving and we will be fine.
Very good point. As I mentioned before we have really just had 2 guys struggle from free throw line. The rest of the team has done well and even those two have gotten better like you said. There is not doubt this team has improved and is not anywhere near the same team that lost to NIU, Oregon State, and Asheville.
I'll also like the typical negative guy football complaint- if we don't beat Elon by 50 instead of just 24 we have huge problems, our coaches are terrible and our program is in decline. It's so easy to steamroll every opponent (home or away) in basketball by 25, shoot 60% from the field and 80% from the line..every game.
People just like to complain about the stuff that gives them a negative feeling or doesn’t meet that preconceived expectations because it clouds their ability to see the big picture. I guess it somehow makes them feel better.
But, the big picture is made of many small ones and free throws are one component that makes up the big picture. We have been good enough in those other components to make up for a slightly below average FT percentage. The suggestion that keeps being made is that some folks are letting that concern cloud their look at the big picture. I don't think anyone here has taken that stance. Because several folks cite that as a concern doesn't mean they take away from all that this team has accomplished. I'm going to assume everyone here wishes we were better at making free throws. To express a concern about something on the court doesn't mean someone is being negative about the team, coach, or program.
I absolutely agree with your first statement. The big picture is made up of a great many small things. And maybe folks seem to want to talk more about what isn’t working than what is. Yes there is conversation on the good but the ratio of dialogue on the good versus bad is vastly disproportionate. The free throw shooting woes are only a specific example of how these conversations go. And anyone that attempts to level set with some reasoning or an alternate view is labeled a “sunshine pumper” or a member of the “lollipop guild.” These types of conversations aren’t unique to App fans and message boards in general have the same issues.

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Re: Free Throws

Unread post by AppSt94 » Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:19 pm

hapapp wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:12 am
MrCraig wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:00 am
I’ve been dragged on here a couple times for suggesting that games are NOT won or lost at the free throw line.
1. The name is misleading. A “free” throw is not even close to the easiest shot to make, even unguarded.
2. Most championship teams are simply average FT% teams, and the difference between average and below average is usually 1-2 FTs
3. Like a power hitting baseball player who strikes out a lot, a deficiency in one aspect of the game can be overcome by proficiency in another.
4. There seems to be a possible correlation between folks who lose their minds over free throws, folks who think players shoot too many 3s these days, and just plain old folks. I think there’s a sizable middle area in that 3-circle Venn diagram.
Every player on our team except for two, have a higher FT% than they do FG%. Other than perhaps an unguarded layup, it is the easier shot to make. Free throws obviously are more important in a close game than one in which a team is up by double digits. We haven't lost a game because of missed free throws and hopefully that doesn't happen. And, no a team doesn't lose a game just because they miss a free throw or five. Other errors throughout the game contribute to the outcome but to express a desire that we shoot better from the line is not losing one's mind.
I will respectfully disagree with the assertion that free throws are easy to shoot and make. Free throws are all about mechanics and focus. Both of which are tested when game fatigue, both mental and physical set in along with one’s ability to drown out crowd noise and distractions.

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Re: Free Throws

Unread post by spacemonkey » Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:34 pm

100% agree

Free throws at the end of the game are nothing like a free throw in practice. I played a lot of basketball and the one thing that frustrates a player is missing free throws because everyone expects you to make them.

This team is awesome and I will take poor free throw shooting all day vs some of the offense and defenses we have had over the past 10 years.

Kerns knows what he is doing and this team is as solid as any team in college basketball. Including free throw shooting. If I were an NCAA bid team I would not want to catch AppState in the first round.

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Re: Free Throws

Unread post by Bigdaddyg1 » Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:38 pm

appvette wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:50 am
311neers wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:20 am
hapapp wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:12 am
MrCraig wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:00 am
I’ve been dragged on here a couple times for suggesting that games are NOT won or lost at the free throw line.
1. The name is misleading. A “free” throw is not even close to the easiest shot to make, even unguarded.
2. Most championship teams are simply average FT% teams, and the difference between average and below average is usually 1-2 FTs
3. Like a power hitting baseball player who strikes out a lot, a deficiency in one aspect of the game can be overcome by proficiency in another.
4. There seems to be a possible correlation between folks who lose their minds over free throws, folks who think players shoot too many 3s these days, and just plain old folks. I think there’s a sizable middle area in that 3-circle Venn diagram.
Every player on our team except for two, have a higher FT% than they do FG%. Other than perhaps an unguarded layup, it is the easier shot to make. Free throws obviously are more important in a close game than one in which a team is up by double digits. We haven't lost a game because of missed free throws and hopefully that doesn't happen. And, no a team doesn't lose a game just because they miss a free throw or five. Other errors throughout the game contribute to the outcome but to express a desire that we shoot better from the line is not losing one's mind.
This whole conversation started when Donovan missed 2 with 1 second left on the clock in a tie-game. If we were down 1 and he missed 2...this board would have been mayhem. We just haven't been bitten by the bad FT bug yet. Knock on wood.
Even in that scenario, Gregory is an above average FT shooter and best on the team. But even 90% guys miss. So, you still couldn't blame our overall low average in that situation.
And as gut wrenching as those misses were we didn't lose the game because of them. If we don't play an absolute perfect game whether it be football or basketball the knit pickers go nuts and want to be the ones who said, "I told you that's why we were gonna lose". Gregory is our most game tested player but that butt pucker can happen to anyone.

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Re: Free Throws

Unread post by AppSt94 » Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:56 pm

Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:38 pm
appvette wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:50 am
311neers wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:20 am
hapapp wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:12 am
MrCraig wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:00 am
I’ve been dragged on here a couple times for suggesting that games are NOT won or lost at the free throw line.
1. The name is misleading. A “free” throw is not even close to the easiest shot to make, even unguarded.
2. Most championship teams are simply average FT% teams, and the difference between average and below average is usually 1-2 FTs
3. Like a power hitting baseball player who strikes out a lot, a deficiency in one aspect of the game can be overcome by proficiency in another.
4. There seems to be a possible correlation between folks who lose their minds over free throws, folks who think players shoot too many 3s these days, and just plain old folks. I think there’s a sizable middle area in that 3-circle Venn diagram.
Every player on our team except for two, have a higher FT% than they do FG%. Other than perhaps an unguarded layup, it is the easier shot to make. Free throws obviously are more important in a close game than one in which a team is up by double digits. We haven't lost a game because of missed free throws and hopefully that doesn't happen. And, no a team doesn't lose a game just because they miss a free throw or five. Other errors throughout the game contribute to the outcome but to express a desire that we shoot better from the line is not losing one's mind.
This whole conversation started when Donovan missed 2 with 1 second left on the clock in a tie-game. If we were down 1 and he missed 2...this board would have been mayhem. We just haven't been bitten by the bad FT bug yet. Knock on wood.
Even in that scenario, Gregory is an above average FT shooter and best on the team. But even 90% guys miss. So, you still couldn't blame our overall low average in that situation.
And as gut wrenching as those misses were we didn't lose the game because of them. If we don't play an absolute perfect game whether it be football or basketball the knit pickers go nuts and want to be the ones who said, "I told you that's why we were gonna lose". Gregory is our most game tested player but that butt pucker can happen to anyone.
To be completely honest, I don’t feel like Gregory should have been on the line to begin with. The game is tied with two seconds left. No one had possession of the ball. The ref should have swallowed his whistle and played for OT.

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Re: Free Throws

Unread post by PhillyApp1 » Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:08 pm

Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:21 am
MrCraig wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:00 am
I’ve been dragged on here a couple times for suggesting that games are NOT won or lost at the free throw line.
1. The name is misleading. A “free” throw is not even close to the easiest shot to make, even unguarded.
2. Most championship teams are simply average FT% teams, and the difference between average and below average is usually 1-2 FTs
3. Like a power hitting baseball player who strikes out a lot, a deficiency in one aspect of the game can be overcome by proficiency in another.
4. There seems to be a possible correlation between folks who lose their minds over free throws, folks who think players shoot too many 3s these days, and just plain old folks. I think there’s a sizable middle area in that 3-circle Venn diagram.
I saw a video pop up on Facebook a few weeks ago about the guy who had a goal of shooting a million free throws. He shot X amount per day, logged it and kept up with his shooting percentage. He was really good and I can't recall but he was over 90%. Of course this entire endeavor was done alone in an empty gym over a long period of time. Theoretically if the same guy shot 5-10 free throws in front of 5,000 or more people with several hundred of those crazy 18-22 year olds with signs and arms waving I wonder what his numbers would look like. Since he is an elderly gentleman let's allow him to walk around and get slightly winded before each "free shot". People want to use the unguarded free aspects to make it seem like these shots should go in 8 out 10 times at a minimum. The only thing that I believe is unacceptable for a college basketball player is for them to shoot either an air ball or to virtually throw the ball at the rim with no form or effort.
very cool experiment

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Re: Free Throws

Unread post by hapapp » Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:14 pm

AppSt94 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:19 pm
hapapp wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:12 am
MrCraig wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:00 am
I’ve been dragged on here a couple times for suggesting that games are NOT won or lost at the free throw line.
1. The name is misleading. A “free” throw is not even close to the easiest shot to make, even unguarded.
2. Most championship teams are simply average FT% teams, and the difference between average and below average is usually 1-2 FTs
3. Like a power hitting baseball player who strikes out a lot, a deficiency in one aspect of the game can be overcome by proficiency in another.
4. There seems to be a possible correlation between folks who lose their minds over free throws, folks who think players shoot too many 3s these days, and just plain old folks. I think there’s a sizable middle area in that 3-circle Venn diagram.
Every player on our team except for two, have a higher FT% than they do FG%. Other than perhaps an unguarded layup, it is the easier shot to make. Free throws obviously are more important in a close game than one in which a team is up by double digits. We haven't lost a game because of missed free throws and hopefully that doesn't happen. And, no a team doesn't lose a game just because they miss a free throw or five. Other errors throughout the game contribute to the outcome but to express a desire that we shoot better from the line is not losing one's mind.
I will respectfully disagree with the assertion that free throws are easy to shoot and make. Free throws are all about mechanics and focus. Both of which are tested when game fatigue, both mental and physical set in along with one’s ability to drown out crowd noise and distractions.
No one on our team makes 67% of their shots from the floor. As a team we average that from the foul line. The free throw outside of a dunk or an uncontested layup is the easiest shot to make. Obviously, there are exceptions (there two folks on our team who are exceptions). Our best shooter from the floor is Spillers at 63%. He averages 66% from the foul line.

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Re: Free Throws

Unread post by PhillyApp1 » Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:15 pm

spacemonkey wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:34 pm
100% agree

Free throws at the end of the game are nothing like a free throw in practice. I played a lot of basketball and the one thing that frustrates a player is missing free throws because everyone expects you to make them.

This team is awesome and I will take poor free throw shooting all day vs some of the offense and defenses we have had over the past 10 years.

Kerns knows what he is doing and this team is as solid as any team in college basketball. Including free throw shooting. If I were an NCAA bid team I would not want to catch AppState in the first round.
amen....amen....amen !!!!

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Re: Free Throws

Unread post by AppSt94 » Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:25 pm

hapapp wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:14 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:19 pm
hapapp wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:12 am
MrCraig wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:00 am
I’ve been dragged on here a couple times for suggesting that games are NOT won or lost at the free throw line.
1. The name is misleading. A “free” throw is not even close to the easiest shot to make, even unguarded.
2. Most championship teams are simply average FT% teams, and the difference between average and below average is usually 1-2 FTs
3. Like a power hitting baseball player who strikes out a lot, a deficiency in one aspect of the game can be overcome by proficiency in another.
4. There seems to be a possible correlation between folks who lose their minds over free throws, folks who think players shoot too many 3s these days, and just plain old folks. I think there’s a sizable middle area in that 3-circle Venn diagram.
Every player on our team except for two, have a higher FT% than they do FG%. Other than perhaps an unguarded layup, it is the easier shot to make. Free throws obviously are more important in a close game than one in which a team is up by double digits. We haven't lost a game because of missed free throws and hopefully that doesn't happen. And, no a team doesn't lose a game just because they miss a free throw or five. Other errors throughout the game contribute to the outcome but to express a desire that we shoot better from the line is not losing one's mind.
I will respectfully disagree with the assertion that free throws are easy to shoot and make. Free throws are all about mechanics and focus. Both of which are tested when game fatigue, both mental and physical set in along with one’s ability to drown out crowd noise and distractions.
No one on our team makes 67% of their shots from the floor. As a team we average that from the foul line. The free throw outside of a dunk or an uncontested layup is the easiest shot to make. Obviously, there are exceptions (there two folks on our team who are exceptions). Our best shooter from the floor is Spillers at 63%. He averages 66% from the foul line.
We will have to agree to disagree on your position that it is the easiest shot on the court. I understand why you feel that way. The free throw execution consist of different factors that a jump shot.

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Re: Free Throws

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:35 pm

Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:05 am
AppStFan1 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:34 am
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:45 pm
appvette wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:36 pm
Amazing how much attention this has gotten. We have made 99 more free throws this year than our opponents. If we averaged just one additional made free throw per game, we would be slightly above average instead of below average FT%. One single point.
Amazing isn't it? The guys who continually look for the negative in every sport can't get past the percentage without considering the totals. Those same guys picked apart Ryan Burger's passing stats from a couple of drives in the one short amount of time he played in one single game. Or the TV announcers who bring up season stats in the second game of a season. We have 9 guys who play and really only 2 who had been abysmal so our team numbers have been low. You would think that all 9 dudes stink. The two who struggled most of the season have improved but like a GPA that starts out at a 2.0 it's hard to bring it up to a 3.0 without several semesters of 4.0. Basically we need to shoot 19-20 for the next 5 games to get to 70% or so. Just keep improving and we will be fine.
Very good point. As I mentioned before we have really just had 2 guys struggle from free throw line. The rest of the team has done well and even those two have gotten better like you said. There is not doubt this team has improved and is not anywhere near the same team that lost to NIU, Oregon State, and Asheville.
I'll also like the typical negative guy football complaint- if we don't beat Elon by 50 instead of just 24 we have huge problems, our coaches are terrible and our program is in decline. It's so easy to steamroll every opponent (home or away) in basketball by 25, shoot 60% from the field and 80% from the line..every game.
I think the margin of victory only matters to voters because many of them want a mid-major to look impressive against their conference foes and stand out. I do feel like if we play a complete game and bring our A effort that we can handle the remaining teams with double digit wins but it definitely does not mean the sky is falling if they are close wins. Just win baby!

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Re: Free Throws

Unread post by hapapp » Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:46 pm

For some reason people are inferring from some expressed concern about our FT% that those people are either negative about the team, miss the big picture, or don't think Kerns knows what he's doing. I have seen none of that from those folks. I believe everyone on this board is excited about what this team has accomplished to date and what hopefully it is yet to accomplish. It has put its place in the company of the best we've ever had and may wind up the best we've ever had. That, however, doesn't make it wrong to wish we could shoot a higher % of FTs. Would I change it for Abson's ability to alter shots? No! Would I change it for the depth this team has? No. Its not about substituting one thing for another. I'm happy with this team but I do Hwish they were a little better from the foul line. I don't believe its a fatal flaw and to date it hasn't been an issue and hopefully won't be.

For the record over the last four games we are shooting 72% from the line.
Gregory is 12-19 (63% but that counts his 4-9 in the Toledo game, otherwise he is hitting 80%)
Marsh is 14-15 (93%)
Harcum is 8-10 (80%)
Tate is 9-13 (69%)

Our primary ball handlers and those we expect to handle the ball in late game situations are shooting a combined 75% over the last four games. We would seem to be in good hands (even Abson and Brown were 4-4 v. UL).

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Re: Free Throws

Unread post by MrCraig » Tue Feb 20, 2024 4:25 pm

hapapp wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:46 pm
For some reason people are inferring from some expressed concern about our FT% that those people are either negative about the team, miss the big picture, or don't think Kerns knows what he's doing. I have seen none of that from those folks. I believe everyone on this board is excited about what this team has accomplished to date and what hopefully it is yet to accomplish. It has put its place in the company of the best we've ever had and may wind up the best we've ever had. That, however, doesn't make it wrong to wish we could shoot a higher % of FTs. Would I change it for Abson's ability to alter shots? No! Would I change it for the depth this team has? No. Its not about substituting one thing for another. I'm happy with this team but I do Hwish they were a little better from the foul line. I don't believe its a fatal flaw and to date it hasn't been an issue and hopefully won't be.

For the record over the last four games we are shooting 72% from the line.
Gregory is 12-19 (63% but that counts his 4-9 in the Toledo game, otherwise he is hitting 80%)
Marsh is 14-15 (93%)
Harcum is 8-10 (80%)
Tate is 9-13 (69%)

Our primary ball handlers and those we expect to handle the ball in late game situations are shooting a combined 75% over the last four games. We would seem to be in good hands (even Abson and Brown were 4-4 v. UL).
“ For some reason people are inferring from some expressed concern about our FT% that those people are either negative about the team, miss the big picture, or don't think Kerns knows what he's doing. I have seen none of that from those folks.”

There have been at least 2 instances of different posters saying “we WILL lose a game because of missed free throws.” (Emphasis mine) I’ve pushed back against that because teams almost never lose games because of free throws. Then, some of those same posters took what I said and claimed “some folks on this board think free throws don’t even matter!” And they did some snide subbing a few times when players missed big free throws.

It may not have been you, but what I quoted above HAS been said or insinuated on this board.

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