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MBB vs Toledo, 1 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 10, Holmes Sweet Holmes, MAC/Sun Belt Challenge, be there

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Re: MBB vs Toledo, 1 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 10, Holmes Sweet Holmes, MAC/Sun Belt Challenge, be there

Unread post by hapapp » Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:12 pm

Yosef77 wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:56 am
Something just doesn't feel right about this NET. Both JMU and App beat a quad 3 team (at home) in close games yesterday and JMU moves up 6 places and we don't move at all. Samford beats a terrible quad 4 team and moves up 8 places. Miami losses and doesn't move. I can't make any sense out of some of these.
Akron was at 86 before yesterday, Toledo was at 125. Keep in mind margin of victory plays a role in the NET. JMU is also 8-2 on the road, we're 6-4. They beat Michigan State on the road, we beat Auburn at home. They are 19-2 in quad 3&4 losses, we are 15-4.

We are currently behind 9 loss North Texas, 8 loss LA Tech, 7 loss UC Irvine, 9 loss St. Bonnie, 8 loss VCU. Clearly the NIU loss and the fact that we aren't winning by bigger margins is having an effect.

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Re: MBB vs Toledo, 1 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 10, Holmes Sweet Holmes, MAC/Sun Belt Challenge, be there

Unread post by 704App » Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:37 pm

Don't know anything about the recruitment of these kids, but is it possible they're at App because they can't shoot free throws?

I get they are free. They are unguarded. They should be easy. But they aren't to everyone. A free unguarded putt at putt putt should be easy too -- but they aren't to everyone. Yes, I get it D1 athlete, one job, blah blah.. but, if it were truly THAT simple, we would all be putting on free throws shooting clinics.

You guys are crazy if you think the players, staff, etc don't know FTs are a problem and don't work on them relentlessly.

That said, having a better defense and more efficient offense is more important than a better FG %. Stats back it up.
Last edited by 704App on Sun Feb 11, 2024 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MBB vs Toledo, 1 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 10, Holmes Sweet Holmes, MAC/Sun Belt Challenge, be there

Unread post by Yosef77 » Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:49 pm

hapapp wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:12 pm
Yosef77 wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:56 am
Something just doesn't feel right about this NET. Both JMU and App beat a quad 3 team (at home) in close games yesterday and JMU moves up 6 places and we don't move at all. Samford beats a terrible quad 4 team and moves up 8 places. Miami losses and doesn't move. I can't make any sense out of some of these.
Akron was at 86 before yesterday, Toledo was at 125. Keep in mind margin of victory plays a role in the NET. JMU is also 8-2 on the road, we're 6-4. They beat Michigan State on the road, we beat Auburn at home. They are 19-2 in quad 3&4 losses, we are 15-4.

We are currently behind 9 loss North Texas, 8 loss LA Tech, 7 loss UC Irvine, 9 loss St. Bonnie, 8 loss VCU. Clearly the NIU loss and the fact that we aren't winning by bigger margins is having an effect.
I understand why JMU is higher then us. What I didn't understand was the one day movement (JMU up 6 and App even) from Friday to Sunday when we both won our games. And why would Samford move up 8 spots for beating #350 VMI? Forgeting the history, the changes from 1 day to the next should be based on that day's results and many of those changes are crazy.

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Re: MBB vs Toledo, 1 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 10, Holmes Sweet Holmes, MAC/Sun Belt Challenge, be there

Unread post by GreatAppSt » Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:05 pm

Mr. Owl, does made free throw % make a winning basketball team? .......

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Last edited by GreatAppSt on Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MBB vs Toledo, 1 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 10, Holmes Sweet Holmes, MAC/Sun Belt Challenge, be there

Unread post by hapapp » Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:06 pm

Yosef77 wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:49 pm
hapapp wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:12 pm
Yosef77 wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:56 am
Something just doesn't feel right about this NET. Both JMU and App beat a quad 3 team (at home) in close games yesterday and JMU moves up 6 places and we don't move at all. Samford beats a terrible quad 4 team and moves up 8 places. Miami losses and doesn't move. I can't make any sense out of some of these.
Akron was at 86 before yesterday, Toledo was at 125. Keep in mind margin of victory plays a role in the NET. JMU is also 8-2 on the road, we're 6-4. They beat Michigan State on the road, we beat Auburn at home. They are 19-2 in quad 3&4 losses, we are 15-4.

We are currently behind 9 loss North Texas, 8 loss LA Tech, 7 loss UC Irvine, 9 loss St. Bonnie, 8 loss VCU. Clearly the NIU loss and the fact that we aren't winning by bigger margins is having an effect.
I understand why JMU is higher then us. What I didn't understand was the one day movement (JMU up 6 and App even) from Friday to Sunday when we both won our games. And why would Samford move up 8 spots for beating #350 VMI? Forgeting the history, the changes from 1 day to the next should be based on that day's results and many of those changes are crazy.
I honesty don't know. I know margin of victory is a factor in NET but I'm not sure what other factors play such a role from game to game.

Here is an explanation of what goes into NET:


Apparently, in each of the categories they rank higher than we do. And, as was said yesterday, head to head is not a factor. I now can see that if they go undefeated the rest of the way and lose in the SBC tournament, they could get an at large bid at 29-4/30-4. They are the only SBC team that would have a realistic chance to do that, and it would still be a bit of a long shot. Right now they sit at 56.
Last edited by hapapp on Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MBB vs Toledo, 1 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 10, Holmes Sweet Holmes, MAC/Sun Belt Challenge, be there

Unread post by spacemonkey » Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:41 pm

The net problem may keep us out of the NIT if we don't win the Sunbelt tournament. That would be a shame. This team deserves a decent post season tournament.

My hope is the AppState brand and fanbase get us in the NIT, if we don't make the big dance.

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Re: MBB vs Toledo, 1 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 10, Holmes Sweet Holmes, MAC/Sun Belt Challenge, be there

Unread post by Bigdaddyg1 » Sun Feb 11, 2024 2:39 pm

It is and utterly has been completely insane how the automatic qualifier piece works. If you simply look at the conference standings there are probably going to be at least 8 champions whose overall records are terrible. Forget NET and any other computer generated ranking. The simple eyeball test will tell anyone with a brain that probably 8 of these conference champs have no business getting a bid. Every year probably 4-5 are teams who simply got on a 4-5 day roll and won their tournament (sorry but that included App a few years ago). If the same team from a bad conference wins the regular season and tournament they are in. Easily add an enhanced playin round and no mid major with 20+ wins is left out. I'd go one step further. If a solid mid major loses in the playin they could still get an NIT spot.

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Re: MBB vs Toledo, 1 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 10, Holmes Sweet Holmes, MAC/Sun Belt Challenge, be there

Unread post by Saint3333 » Sun Feb 11, 2024 3:15 pm

Just.win.baby.

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Re: MBB vs Toledo, 1 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 10, Holmes Sweet Holmes, MAC/Sun Belt Challenge, be there

Unread post by hapapp » Sun Feb 11, 2024 3:52 pm

Saint3333 wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 3:15 pm
Just.win.baby.
That really is the only prescription.

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Re: MBB vs Toledo, 1 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 10, Holmes Sweet Holmes, MAC/Sun Belt Challenge, be there

Unread post by Saint3333 » Sun Feb 11, 2024 4:22 pm

Yep and I’ve got a fever and winning in the only prescription.

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Re: MBB vs Toledo, 1 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 10, Holmes Sweet Holmes, MAC/Sun Belt Challenge, be there

Unread post by NattyBumppo'sRevenge » Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:40 pm

This game was basketball homecoming, I believe. Anyone see any notable basketball alumni? Alumnae? Alumnus?

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Re: MBB vs Toledo, 1 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 10, Holmes Sweet Holmes, MAC/Sun Belt Challenge, be there

Unread post by hapapp » Mon Feb 12, 2024 6:44 am

NattyBumppo'sRevenge wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:40 pm
This game was basketball homecoming, I believe. Anyone see any notable basketball alumni? Alumnae? Alumnus?
Bobby Cremins, Daryl Robinson, Allan Price are several I remember. I think I remember Tony Searcy's name being announced.

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Re: MBB vs Toledo, 1 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 10, Holmes Sweet Holmes, MAC/Sun Belt Challenge, be there

Unread post by APPdiesel » Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:00 am

The NET is supposedly unbiased. The voters are. It’s been a long time since App State basketball had any brand power. Got to continue achieving 20 win seasons 1 or 2 more years in a row and that brand perception starts to change. Losing Huntley and Gregory this year will hurt. If we can hang on to Abson, Brown, Spillers, and Tate though we could set up for another solid season in 2024-25.

Side question: CJ is listed as a senior, he’s currently using his extra Covid year, correct? Or would he have one more if he wanted it? I’m fairly certain it’s the former.
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Re: MBB vs Toledo, 1 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 10, Holmes Sweet Holmes, MAC/Sun Belt Challenge, be there

Unread post by 311neers » Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:04 am

APPdiesel wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:00 am
The NET is supposedly unbiased. The voters are. It’s been a long time since App State basketball had any brand power. Got to continue achieving 20 win seasons 1 or 2 more years in a row and that brand perception starts to change. Losing Huntley and Gregory this year will hurt. If we can hang on to Abson, Brown, Spillers, and Tate though we could set up for another solid season in 2024-25.

Side question: CJ is listed as a senior, he’s currently using his extra Covid year, correct? Or would he have one more if he wanted it? I’m fairly certain it’s the former.
I think CJ has another year. We need him to return bad. But more importantly, we need the rest to return, especially Abson.

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Re: MBB vs Toledo, 1 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 10, Holmes Sweet Holmes, MAC/Sun Belt Challenge, be there

Unread post by BUTCH1991 » Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:04 am

CJ can come back for another season if he decides to.

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Re: MBB vs Toledo, 1 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 10, Holmes Sweet Holmes, MAC/Sun Belt Challenge, be there

Unread post by Bigdaddyg1 » Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:36 am

It will be an absolute miracle to keep Abson. He's very close to being a complete player with his back to the basket offense improving each game.

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Re: MBB vs Toledo, 1 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 10, Holmes Sweet Holmes, MAC/Sun Belt Challenge, be there

Unread post by AppFan11 » Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:49 pm

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-me ... season?amp


It’s safe to say other factors are included in the at-large process…. nice huh?

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Re: MBB vs Toledo, 1 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 10, Holmes Sweet Holmes, MAC/Sun Belt Challenge, be there

Unread post by Uoftoledofans » Tue Feb 13, 2024 1:11 am

Yosef77 wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:56 am
Something just doesn't feel right about this NET. Both JMU and App beat a quad 3 team (at home) in close games yesterday and JMU moves up 6 places and we don't move at all. Samford beats a terrible quad 4 team and moves up 8 places. Miami losses and doesn't move. I can't make any sense out of some of these.
Akron is quad 2. Top 100 NET at home. Toledo is 130th. Plus they blew out Akron. In all reality Toledo played a tougher schedule than UA and gets the Zips at home next week. The teams are similar in strength, but built very differently. Toledo a guard laden team who is the 4th worst defensive team from the field but best in the MAC forcing turnovers. Akron has a great big man that gets like 13 boards a game and plays defense. JMU struggled with Kent which is more built like Toledo just worse. It's a matchup game. No doubt the Belt is better than the MAC in its worst year in a long long history.

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Re: MBB vs Toledo, 1 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 10, Holmes Sweet Holmes, MAC/Sun Belt Challenge, be there

Unread post by Bigdaddyg1 » Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:26 am

I'm assuming that quad wins change over the course of the season. We currently have 2 quad 1 wins- Auburn and JMU. JMU must have dropped to quad 2 when we beat them the second time. Two quad 4 losses are ultimately the difference for us. We needed those two dogs to turn around their seasons and at least climb to quad 3. Basically this ranking can punish a really hot team who started a bit slower. The voting done by humans uses more of the eyeball test. We are playing like a top 40ish type team but the NET says we are around 80. Awful way to view a team.

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Re: MBB vs Toledo, 1 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 10, Holmes Sweet Holmes, MAC/Sun Belt Challenge, be there

Unread post by Yosef77 » Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:30 am

Wow the NET is really wacky. With very few games yesterday, McNeese State beat a very bad Quad 4 team by 50 points and was rewarded by moving up 10 spots. Apparently margin of victory is extremely important. I guess we need to leave in starters and start blowing people out as much as possible. If we are up by 10 with 2:00 minutes left stop slowing the game down and try to score more. Don't just dribble the clock out at the end, be rude and go for more.

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