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GAME THREAD - MBB @ South Alabama, Sat 2/11 6pm

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Re: GAME THREAD - MBB @ South Alabama, Sat 2/11 6pm

Unread post by app97 » Sat Feb 11, 2023 10:43 pm

APPdiesel wrote:
Sat Feb 11, 2023 10:31 pm
Kerns needs to make a major improvement next season or I’d be willing to bet Gillin starts to turn up the heat.

Let’s be real guys, football and wrestling are the only sports App is consistently good at. We’re average to bad in just about everything else.

Is that good enough?
Turn up the heat on a guy who’s had winning seasons every year he’s been here and made the ncaa tourney for the first time in 21 years and only the third time in our history? Most folks on this board have been more worried about losing him to a better/bigger program sooner than later.

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Re: GAME THREAD - MBB @ South Alabama, Sat 2/11 6pm

Unread post by spacemonkey » Sat Feb 11, 2023 10:58 pm

I like Kerns hope he stays for a while. That being said I don't get the spacing and standing still offense. We have 3 point shooters but the offense we run makes it hard to get open without being a shot maker/creater. I would love to see Brown and Gregory back it down into the paint and then throw out to a moving three point shooter when they collapse. None of our players can create a 3 point shot off the dribble. They need help getting open without the ball.

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Re: GAME THREAD - MBB @ South Alabama, Sat 2/11 6pm

Unread post by Cro-Magnon App » Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:00 pm

Speaking of fouling - if all 5 players foul at the same time, they’ll only call one.

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Re: GAME THREAD - MBB @ South Alabama, Sat 2/11 6pm

Unread post by mountaineerman » Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:00 pm

APPdiesel wrote:
Sat Feb 11, 2023 10:31 pm
Kerns needs to make a major improvement next season or I’d be willing to bet Gillin starts to turn up the heat.

Let’s be real guys, football and wrestling are the only sports App is consistently good at. We’re average to bad in just about everything else.

Is that good enough?
We just talked about this tonight! No improvement in any sport. Doug has everything In front of him.

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Re: GAME THREAD - MBB @ South Alabama, Sat 2/11 6pm

Unread post by APPdiesel » Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:01 pm

app97 wrote:
Sat Feb 11, 2023 10:43 pm
APPdiesel wrote:
Sat Feb 11, 2023 10:31 pm
Kerns needs to make a major improvement next season or I’d be willing to bet Gillin starts to turn up the heat.

Let’s be real guys, football and wrestling are the only sports App is consistently good at. We’re average to bad in just about everything else.

Is that good enough?
Turn up the heat on a guy who’s had winning seasons every year he’s been here and made the ncaa tourney for the first time in 21 years and only the third time in our history? Most folks on this board have been more worried about losing him to a better/bigger program sooner than later.
Turn up the heat ≠ fired
Turn up the heat ≠ ultimatum
Turn up the heat = turn up the heat

High expectations are a good thing.
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Re: GAME THREAD - MBB @ South Alabama, Sat 2/11 6pm

Unread post by BambooRdApp » Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:05 am

I am all for high expectations. However some expectations can be unrealistic. Rome was not built in a day, 3 years , 5 years. App St has been basketball purgatory for many years. Have we had an occasional good season, yes. Has it been sustainable, No. For Kerns and Co. to have consecutive winning seasons will be impressive (this season is not over)
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Re: GAME THREAD - MBB @ South Alabama, Sat 2/11 6pm

Unread post by appgrad95&97 » Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:25 am

Kerns has done a solid job. He took over a program that was awful and produced winning seasons. This season has been a bit of a disappointment, and I expect we'll end up sub .500. All that said, I believe Kearns is the best we can do by a longshot. I wish he got a little more support.

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Re: GAME THREAD - MBB @ South Alabama, Sat 2/11 6pm

Unread post by AtlAppMan » Sun Feb 12, 2023 11:55 am

How does Kerns grade himself? Is this the level he comfortable/satisfied with? Kerns is better than most of what we have had in last 25 yrs but what does that mean when those were all bad?

Our App fan base for basketball is like living in communism, you learn to accept bad as a normal way of life. Just a reality. That is not a good thing. The first thing to do is raise your standards and then operate accordingly.

BTW, I like Kerns and this is not said to translate to fire him.

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Re: GAME THREAD - MBB @ South Alabama, Sat 2/11 6pm

Unread post by T-Dog » Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:18 pm

IMO, a reasonable expectation in the offseason would be to hire an innovative offensive assistant coach. Cause the Sun Belt is going in that direction I believe. It's going from a physical rock fight league to more of a blend.

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Re: GAME THREAD - MBB @ South Alabama, Sat 2/11 6pm

Unread post by hapapp » Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:48 pm

BambooRdApp wrote:
Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:05 am
I am all for high expectations. However some expectations can be unrealistic. Rome was not built in a day, 3 years , 5 years. App St has been basketball purgatory for many years. Have we had an occasional good season, yes. Has it been sustainable, No. For Kerns and Co. to have consecutive winning seasons will be impressive (this season is not over)
Our basketball history

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/sc ... state/men/
In 51 seasons as a D1 program, we have reached at least 18 wins 13 times. Kerns has two of those. He has yet to have a season with a losing overall record, which has happened 24 times in the 51 years. Only Tom Apke has had more consecutive winning seasons (5) than Kerns if he finishes above .500 (Fancher had 4, Cremins and Peterson 3). So, in the scope of things he has performed better than the average App coach. On the other hand, his teams have never finished more than 5 games above .500. Will we rise above that level under Kerns? Should we have an expectation of App being more than a middle of the road program?

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Re: GAME THREAD - MBB @ South Alabama, Sat 2/11 6pm

Unread post by DenverOfTheEast » Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:57 pm

app97 wrote:
Sat Feb 11, 2023 9:38 pm
AppinATL wrote:
Sat Feb 11, 2023 9:08 pm
app97 wrote:
Sat Feb 11, 2023 8:52 pm
mountaineerman wrote:
Sat Feb 11, 2023 8:22 pm
We just got our teeth kicked in by an 11 win team. We’re just not a well coached basketball team .
An 11 win team that has won 4 out of their last 5 games and has been one of the hottest teams in the belt as of late. Momentum has a lot to do with basketball success. We didn’t play well and USA shot lights out tonight. I’m pretty sure that anyone who knows Kerns in the coaching circles would disagree with your “we’re not a well coached team” statement. His staff has had more success with player development than any staff I’ve seen in Boone. Kerns is a respected college bball coach. We just don’t have a player/players who can take over a game this year. Quite frankly USA matched up well with us personnel wise…another factor that often contributes to wins. There is more nuance to basketball than coaching alone.
Ok, I’m not anti Kerns. I appreciate the fact that he has elevated the program from where it was for the decade prior to his arrival. But how can you say he’s been successful with player development with a straight face? I’m seeing pretty good recruiting. Player development, not so much. We have been brutally inconsistent offensively and have to be among the very worst free throw shooting teams in the country. No signs of improvement since last year. Mantis is a turnover machine that’s supposed to be a lights out shooter thats scored 3 points total in the last two games. Two seasons in, no development there.
Because players such as Delph, Oshowen Williams, Gregory, became remarkably better players from the previous staff to this one, and we are currently seeing the same thing with Harcum from year one to two. I’m talking individual player development, not overall team free throw shooting, etc. the interesting thing that folks forget about is that we were one of the better teams in the country in free throw shooting a couple years ago, and we are currently the best defense in the belt, and have been #1 or 2 in that category every year he’s been in town. I’m not a fan of the offense…hopefully some adjustments will be made there.

He did have one of the top 3 point percentage, 3 pointers made, and assist-turnover ratio teams in the country at Presbyterian, but maybe it was just because his personnel vs the big south happened to work that year.
1) What player has Kerns and his staff signed that we will say will be an All Sun Belt 1st or 2nd team player???? Time will tell depending on whether they hit the portal first or not which is usually been the case for Kerns recruits - But possibly Abson and Harmcum - but if they don't get help next season their numbers will digress.

2) The above mentioned players were, (Donovan Gregory) playing behind Isaac Johnson - 1k pts and damn near 1k Rebs. (Delph and O'Showen) was playing behind Shabazz and Forrest whom both are #2 and #3 on the All Time scoring list. Not like they were sitting the pine behind chopped liver.

3) I would agree with the player development, offense is iso oriented and if they have no good iso players on this years roster to make it work. Has Huntley truly improved? Has Mantias made a jump?

4) Kerns coaching career 6 total seasons and 5 of those he has been in the bottom 3rd for tempo, therefore don't ever expect to see a lot of points, it's the Ga Southern football offense for basketball.

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Re: GAME THREAD - MBB @ South Alabama, Sat 2/11 6pm

Unread post by BambooRdApp » Sun Feb 12, 2023 1:03 pm

hapapp wrote:
Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:48 pm
BambooRdApp wrote:
Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:05 am
I am all for high expectations. However some expectations can be unrealistic. Rome was not built in a day, 3 years , 5 years. App St has been basketball purgatory for many years. Have we had an occasional good season, yes. Has it been sustainable, No. For Kerns and Co. to have consecutive winning seasons will be impressive (this season is not over)
Our basketball history

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/sc ... state/men/
In 51 seasons as a D1 program, we have reached at least 18 wins 13 times. Kerns has two of those. He has yet to have a season with a losing overall record, which has happened 24 times in the 51 years. Only Tom Apke has had more consecutive winning seasons (5) than Kerns if he finishes above .500 (Fancher had 4, Cremins and Peterson 3). So, in the scope of things he has performed better than the average App coach. On the other hand, his teams have never finished more than 5 games above .500. Will we rise above that level under Kerns? Should we have an expectation of App being more than a middle of the road program?
I do have higher expectations. I do not believe Kerns should be on the "hot seat" no matter how rest of season goes. I actually believe the season is going as expected. We lost two of our better players I'm a few years (Delph and Forest (sp?). We brought in several transfers that were not stars at D1 level....and we have lost some players to portal. I did not count on that. Our center is a freshman that I believe can be very good. In the off-season that is up to staff somewhat and more up to the freshman if he wants to be all he can be as a college player. He has to work on lateral movement and quickness and round out his game around the basket. I do believe Kerns and team will need to play well in portal as well as recruiting. That has to improve for App St to have long-term success. 5th season in..IMO opinion.. recruiting (portal and freshman) is where we need to see improvement. I do believe we have opportunity to be pretty good next year if we can hold onto what we got. I hope we can find a Gregory like replacement. We need a glue guy. He is that...does a little bit of everything.

Two years from now and we are in 7th/8th season..and at same place..maybe it is a different discussion. Not sure men's bball at App St will have be a revenue maker like for certain ACC schools...but do believe it can do better revenue wise if we get a consistent winner...and better marketing around town for weeknight games.
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Re: GAME THREAD - MBB @ South Alabama, Sat 2/11 6pm

Unread post by spacemonkey » Sun Feb 12, 2023 3:27 pm

A whole offense could be created with a pass into Abson and a pass back out to a moving Mantis, Harcum, Huntley for a three with the 5th player and Abson crashing the board and the other three can drop back for D. Our shooters have to move without the ball. They are statues.

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Re: GAME THREAD - MBB @ South Alabama, Sat 2/11 6pm

Unread post by CoachRob » Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:29 pm

Question, what mid-major (non power 5) basketball program has been able to excel in basketball that also excels in football?

Every mid major basketball power that I can think of that is a household name; ie: Gonzaga, VCU, Iona, Wichita State, Villanova, loyola chicago, ex,; either do not compete with a football program or football is secondary to basketball.
I say this in that I think most schools like App, do not have the funds to be able to achieve high expectations in both sports.

IMO, App basketball has a ceiling that doesn't reach the expectations some of us are wanting.

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Re: GAME THREAD - MBB @ South Alabama, Sat 2/11 6pm

Unread post by ncman071 » Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:57 pm

i think our basketball program is in much better shape obviously than we were prior to kerns. kerns is a youngish coach ...in year 4 and have had 3 consecutive winning seasons and as a poster above said,..this season aint over. we have 4 opportunities ahead..hopefully can either win out..or maybe 3-1...having said all that...he does need to make significant changes to our offense. i'd put our defense up against any of the better teams in the country at least against the other mid major programs. we have got to fix free throws...and this standing around on offense. we cant afford to have these rediculous scoring droughts...but i love our team and the guys play extremely hard every game.

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Re: GAME THREAD - MBB @ South Alabama, Sat 2/11 6pm

Unread post by appvette » Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:14 pm

Nobody is acknowledging that 4 of the top 5 teams are new from CUSA, including #1 and #2. If they hadn't come over, we would be sitting in 3rd place and everyone is happy considering how many players we lost from last year. Our final 4 games are against teams below us or ones that we've already beaten.

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Re: GAME THREAD - MBB @ South Alabama, Sat 2/11 6pm

Unread post by Stonewall » Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:35 pm

appvette wrote:
Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:14 pm
Nobody is acknowledging that 4 of the top 5 teams are new from CUSA, including #1 and #2. If they hadn't come over, we would be sitting in 3rd place and everyone is happy considering how many players we lost from last year. Our final 4 games are against teams below us or ones that we've already beaten.
Maybe. The schedule would be different so it's not a given, but yes, I was thinking the same thing last night. We wanted a stronger conference, and we got it.

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Re: GAME THREAD - MBB @ South Alabama, Sat 2/11 6pm

Unread post by BambooRdApp » Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:36 pm

None of the teams that came over from CUSA were any good in the CUSA last year and James Madison was bottom half of CAA...so not sure what that says about our conference....or the point being made about the comment of teams coming over from CUSA or CAA.
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Re: GAME THREAD - MBB @ South Alabama, Sat 2/11 6pm

Unread post by appvette » Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:41 pm

BambooRdApp wrote:
Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:36 pm
None of the teams that came over from CUSA were any good in the CUSA last year and James Madison was bottom half of CAA...so not sure what that says about our conference....or the point being made about the comment of teams coming over from CUSA or CAA.
The conference is objectively much stronger now that these teams came over so you have to take that into consideration when evaluating coaching and comparing to previous years and coaches. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

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Re: GAME THREAD - MBB @ South Alabama, Sat 2/11 6pm

Unread post by BambooRdApp » Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:46 pm

Last year conference record in CUSA
Marshall 4-14
ODU 8-10
So. Miss 1-17

Now they may have done well in the portal or recruiting, etc. Says more about App. St. and other teams in Sun Belt and what they did not do in the off-season. That seems straight forward to me.
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