Drop men's basketball, add hockey

[cbarrier90]

Looking in the Book of records, it seems that all but 2 of the largest crowds were all in Varsity Gym. Not sure if it was because of the better teams or because Varsity was right on campus....
HCC is a great facility, but the crowds don’t lie.

The Holmes Dome is 100 yards from Varsity gym. I don't see how that could ever be a reason or how it's not "right on campus."

Food was why Varsity had great crowds. Right by the cafeteria and those local Ladies who worked in there could cook. Grab some supper head to the game. If you hit the BI before a game you wouldn't see the end of it.

seriousness. Yeah we had a big time trip to the NCAA but Crimmins put a good product on the floor and butts in the seats.

In fairness, that was a different time and age back then. If you wanted some evening entertainment and didn't want to suffer through cabin fever, you went to the basketball game because A. It was fun and B. It was the only thing in town to do.

Now, us youngsters have the internet, smartphones, and 5 million TV channels to keep our attention away from the Holmes Center. I keep saying this on here, but you have to give them a product that makes them say "I'm going to go out of my way to go to the basketball game because I know I'll have more fun there than staying in the warmth of my apartment to watch two top-ten teams on television."

Football has been able to do that, and for some reason (winning,) basketball just can't get it right.

[MountainMan]

Hockey?

We'd have no one to play, no where to play, and no one to watch. Bad idea any way you slice it.

No one to play? Recruit.

No where to play? Remove the lower bowl and an ice rink in the Holmes Dome would be freakin' awesome.

No one to watch? How many college hockey programs exist in the South? Not to mention those in the area who love the Canes.

No one to play: You said yourself, how many college hockey programs exist in the south? That's the "no one to play" -- no other teams to play that are within any feasible/reasonable distance to play. The last thing we need is a hockey team with a huge travel budget because we have to fly everywhere we play. Big money pit. No natural rivals. Money down the drain. (And about recruiting: I'm sure we would be able to recruit some kind of team in North Carolina -- sort of like why you don't see many decent baseball teams in the north and midwest.)

No where to play: Remove the lower bowl and install an ice rink in Holmes? Freakin' awesome expensive -- especially when you have to take in up and put it down multiple times to accommodate other events going on.

No one to watch: Not much competition and folks love the 'Canes? Really? That's it? We would put together a crappy hockey team, playing teams that many of us have never heard of from the northeast and midwest, in a sport that most of our fanbase never watches, on nights when the TarHoles, Dookies, and Wake Forest, etc. are on TV and we will fill up Holmes. Uh, I'll have some of whatever it is you've been smoking!

Bottom line: Oh never mind............

The only thing nuttier than the idea of hockey at ASU, is how nutty it is for me to waste the time to even respond to this thread. But that one is on me.

Guess we have to have something for the message board when football is in hibernation.

[TheMoody1]

This is the kind of topic that should be posted on April 1st.

[ASUMountaineer]

What in the hell is trolling? I was just making what I thought was a legit suggestion. NOBODY CARES about basketball in Boone. If this was a business, the program would have declared bankruptcy long ago. Do something out of the box that students could get excited about and would be a revenue generator. Give it up, man. You old farts continue to relive that glorious NCAA tourney team of Darryl Robinson, Mel Hubbard and Walt Anderson of more than 30 years ago. Get over it. Bobby Cremins ain't walking through that door. Buzz Peterson ain't walking (back) through that door.

First, as I stated, which you apparently ignored, basketball generates more money than hockey would. If that wasn't the case, you would have more teams playing hockey. Try again.

Second, I am 31 years old and graduated in 2003. I may be growing older, but I am far from an old fart.

Anything else?

We're averaging 1,000 fans a game and you insist that basketball would generate more money than hockey would. I'm talking about ASU, not UNC. One size doesn't fit all.

Speak of things of which you know. Conferences receive money for teams from that conference making the NCAA tournament. I can assure you that that money is larger than the money that would be paid for hockey. Again, if your assertion was accurate (you've shown no actual data), then why aren't more teams playing hockey. There are a lot of bad basketball teams with poor attendance throughout the country.

Secondly, it's much easier for the school to bring in advertising dollars for the basketball team than for a hockey team. In addition, basketball is a cheaper endeavor than hockey.

Lastly, please tell me how much it would cost upfront to make the HCC ready for hockey (as we do not have a rink). How much will it cost each season for the ice? How much for the boards? How much to configure the flooring for the basketball court (for women's) to play over top of the ice? Which conference should football and other sports move to, as most DI conferences will not admit a team that doesn't play basketball? How much money in additional scholarships would be needed? Have you considered travel cost to send the team to New England and the Midwest for most games?

C'mon man, if you're going to suggest something as revolutionary as dropping men's basketball, at least bring a reasonable and rational plan. All you have is that you think the team performs badly and low attendance. Here in reality, you need more substance than that.

[JCline0429]

Looking in the Book of records, it seems that all but 2 of the largest crowds were all in Varsity Gym. Not sure if it was because of the better teams or because Varsity was right on campus....
HCC is a great facility, but the crowds don’t lie.

The Holmes Dome is 100 yards from Varsity gym. I don't see how that could ever be a reason or how it's not "right on campus."

Food was why Varsity had great crowds. Right by the cafeteria and those local Ladies who worked in there could cook. Grab some supper head to the game. If you hit the BI before a game you wouldn't see the end of it.

seriousness. Yeah we had a big time trip to the NCAA but Crimmins put a good product on the floor and butts in the seats.

The Dean Dome is a long way from center campus and as many students as can get in, attend games there. The secret is to win in order to draw fans and we haven't done that consistently since Cobb came on board and some years prior. As I've said before, much credit goes to him for the the things he has done for football, almost equal blame should go for basketball. You're right on target about putting a good product on the floor.

[proudofyosef]

What in the hell is trolling? I was just making what I thought was a legit suggestion. NOBODY CARES about basketball in Boone. If this was a business, the program would have declared bankruptcy long ago. Do something out of the box that students could get excited about and would be a revenue generator. Give it up, man. You old farts continue to relive that glorious NCAA tourney team of Darryl Robinson, Mel Hubbard and Walt Anderson of more than 30 years ago. Get over it. Bobby Cremins ain't walking through that door. Buzz Peterson ain't walking (back) through that door.

First, as I stated, which you apparently ignored, basketball generates more money than hockey would. If that wasn't the case, you would have more teams playing hockey. Try again.

Second, I am 31 years old and graduated in 2003. I may be growing older, but I am far from an old fart.

Anything else?

We're averaging 1,000 fans a game and you insist that basketball would generate more money than hockey would. I'm talking about ASU, not UNC. One size doesn't fit all.

Speak of things of which you know. Conferences receive money for teams from that conference making the NCAA tournament. I can assure you that that money is larger than the money that would be paid for hockey. Again, if your assertion was accurate (you've shown no actual data), then why aren't more teams playing hockey. There are a lot of bad basketball teams with poor attendance throughout the country.

Secondly, it's much easier for the school to bring in advertising dollars for the basketball team than for a hockey team. In addition, basketball is a cheaper endeavor than hockey.

Lastly, please tell me how much it would cost upfront to make the HCC ready for hockey (as we do not have a rink). How much will it cost each season for the ice? How much for the boards? How much to configure the flooring for the basketball court (for women's) to play over top of the ice? Which conference should football and other sports move to, as most DI conferences will not admit a team that doesn't play basketball? How much money in additional scholarships would be needed? Have you considered travel cost to send the team to New England and the Midwest for most games?

C'mon man, if you're going to suggest something as revolutionary as dropping men's basketball, at least bring a reasonable and rational plan. All you have is that you think the team performs badly and low attendance. Here in reality, you need more substance than that.

Good God, man, this is a frigging message board. Most of the ideas on here are pulled out of the asses of middle-aged white men. When the ASU athletic department commissions a report and pays me for it, I'll produce a budget. In the meantime, I'm just making a suggestion that's a little out of the box. Don't have cow! The attendance at the game last night was a pathetic 818!! The ASU men's basketball program gets outdrawn by Lees-McRae and most of the other D2 and D3 programs in the state. Do you not think that's a serious problem that requires thinking outside of "fire the coach?"

[Gonzo]

Now, us youngsters have the internet, smartphones, and 5 million TV channels to keep our attention away from the Holmes Center. I keep saying this on here, but you have to give them a product that makes them say "I'm going to go out of my way to go to the basketball game because I know I'll have more fun there than staying in the warmth of my apartment to watch two top-ten teams on television."

Not to mention Boone isn't just a socially conservative resort town any more. It is a ridiculous college town with a rowdy bar scene. There are 100 fun things to do in town better than watching our team lose basketball games.

[JCline0429]

What in the hell is trolling? I was just making what I thought was a legit suggestion. NOBODY CARES about basketball in Boone. If this was a business, the program would have declared bankruptcy long ago. Do something out of the box that students could get excited about and would be a revenue generator. Give it up, man. You old farts continue to relive that glorious NCAA tourney team of Darryl Robinson, Mel Hubbard and Walt Anderson of more than 30 years ago. Get over it. Bobby Cremins ain't walking through that door. Buzz Peterson ain't walking (back) through that door.

First, as I stated, which you apparently ignored, basketball generates more money than hockey would. If that wasn't the case, you would have more teams playing hockey. Try again.

Second, I am 31 years old and graduated in 2003. I may be growing older, but I am far from an old fart.

Anything else?

We're averaging 1,000 fans a game and you insist that basketball would generate more money than hockey would. I'm talking about ASU, not UNC. One size doesn't fit all.

Speak of things of which you know. Conferences receive money for teams from that conference making the NCAA tournament. I can assure you that that money is larger than the money that would be paid for hockey. Again, if your assertion was accurate (you've shown no actual data), then why aren't more teams playing hockey. There are a lot of bad basketball teams with poor attendance throughout the country.

Secondly, it's much easier for the school to bring in advertising dollars for the basketball team than for a hockey team. In addition, basketball is a cheaper endeavor than hockey.

Lastly, please tell me how much it would cost upfront to make the HCC ready for hockey (as we do not have a rink). How much will it cost each season for the ice? How much for the boards? How much to configure the flooring for the basketball court (for women's) to play over top of the ice? Which conference should football and other sports move to, as most DI conferences will not admit a team that doesn't play basketball? How much money in additional scholarships would be needed? Have you considered travel cost to send the team to New England and the Midwest for most games?

C'mon man, if you're going to suggest something as revolutionary as dropping men's basketball, at least bring a reasonable and rational plan. All you have is that you think the team performs badly and low attendance. Here in reality, you need more substance than that.

Good God, man, this is a frigging message board. Most of the ideas on here are pulled out of the asses of middle-aged white men. When the ASU athletic department commissions a report and pays me for it, I'll produce a budget. In the meantime, I'm just making a suggestion that's a little out of the box. Don't have cow! The attendance at the game last night was a pathetic 818!! The ASU men's basketball program gets outdrawn by Lees-McRae and most of the other D2 and D3 programs in the state. Do you not think that's a serious problem that requires thinking outside of "fire the coach?"

I agree that our situation requires thinking outside the box and something besides "fire the coach', but Hockey isn't the answer. However, here's kudos to you for trying to think of a remedy to our woes.

[ASUMountaineer]

What in the hell is trolling? I was just making what I thought was a legit suggestion. NOBODY CARES about basketball in Boone. If this was a business, the program would have declared bankruptcy long ago. Do something out of the box that students could get excited about and would be a revenue generator. Give it up, man. You old farts continue to relive that glorious NCAA tourney team of Darryl Robinson, Mel Hubbard and Walt Anderson of more than 30 years ago. Get over it. Bobby Cremins ain't walking through that door. Buzz Peterson ain't walking (back) through that door.

First, as I stated, which you apparently ignored, basketball generates more money than hockey would. If that wasn't the case, you would have more teams playing hockey. Try again.

Second, I am 31 years old and graduated in 2003. I may be growing older, but I am far from an old fart.

Anything else?

We're averaging 1,000 fans a game and you insist that basketball would generate more money than hockey would. I'm talking about ASU, not UNC. One size doesn't fit all.

Speak of things of which you know. Conferences receive money for teams from that conference making the NCAA tournament. I can assure you that that money is larger than the money that would be paid for hockey. Again, if your assertion was accurate (you've shown no actual data), then why aren't more teams playing hockey. There are a lot of bad basketball teams with poor attendance throughout the country.

Secondly, it's much easier for the school to bring in advertising dollars for the basketball team than for a hockey team. In addition, basketball is a cheaper endeavor than hockey.

Lastly, please tell me how much it would cost upfront to make the HCC ready for hockey (as we do not have a rink). How much will it cost each season for the ice? How much for the boards? How much to configure the flooring for the basketball court (for women's) to play over top of the ice? Which conference should football and other sports move to, as most DI conferences will not admit a team that doesn't play basketball? How much money in additional scholarships would be needed? Have you considered travel cost to send the team to New England and the Midwest for most games?

C'mon man, if you're going to suggest something as revolutionary as dropping men's basketball, at least bring a reasonable and rational plan. All you have is that you think the team performs badly and low attendance. Here in reality, you need more substance than that.

Good God, man, this is a frigging message board. Most of the ideas on here are pulled out of the asses of middle-aged white men. When the ASU athletic department commissions a report and pays me for it, I'll produce a budget. In the meantime, I'm just making a suggestion that's a little out of the box. Don't have cow! The attendance at the game last night was a pathetic 818!! The ASU men's basketball program gets outdrawn by Lees-McRae and most of the other D2 and D3 programs in the state. Do you not think that's a serious problem that requires thinking outside of "fire the coach?"

What was that about not having a cow?

Of course men's basketball has a serious problem that requires thinking outside of "fire the coach" (though I think that's a good place to start). Any rational fan would think that. With that said, dropping men's basketball to add hockey is not a serious solution, and it's irrational to claim it would generate more revenue than basketball.

[sonsofyosef]

I would rather have Division I women's ice hockey than field hockey.

First, I think the game of hockey is more exciting and would draw larger crowds.

Plus, we wouldn't have an AstroTurf field issue, and given that a lot of teams are in Northeast and Mid-Atlantic, the travel costs would have to be less than what they are in the NorPac:

http://www.uscho.com/team/#d1women

i don't know how much adding an ice floor to the HCC would be, but that might not be the only option, at least at first. Think outdoor hockey...Sugar, Beech, and App Ski Mountain all have outdoor rinks.

[AppinVA]

I would rather have Division I women's ice hockey than field hockey.

First, I think the game of hockey is more exciting and would draw larger crowds.

Plus, we wouldn't have an AstroTurf field issue, and given that a lot of teams are in Northeast and Mid-Atlantic, the travel costs would have to be less than what they are in the NorPac:

http://www.uscho.com/team/#d1women

i don't know how much adding an ice floor to the HCC would be, but that might not be the only option, at least at first. Think outdoor hockey...Sugar, Beech, and App Ski Mountain all have outdoor rinks.

You intrigue me with this women's ice hockey idea. The floor area at the Holmes Dome is big enough to accommodate ice hockey and basketball. We could put a track around a new soccer pitch, which would give field events natural grass for shot put, discus and javelin and save the cost of building two new stadiums. I don't really know, but I can't imagine that installing ice making capabilities would be more expensive than building an old-style astroturf field and stadium. In addition to hockey games, we could host Disney on Ice events and hold open skates when the basketball teams are on the road. Hmmmm....

[appgrouch]

I would rather have Division I women's ice hockey than field hockey.

First, I think the game of hockey is more exciting and would draw larger crowds.

Plus, we wouldn't have an AstroTurf field issue, and given that a lot of teams are in Northeast and Mid-Atlantic, the travel costs would have to be less than what they are in the NorPac:

http://www.uscho.com/team/#d1women

i don't know how much adding an ice floor to the HCC would be, but that might not be the only option, at least at first. Think outdoor hockey...Sugar, Beech, and App Ski Mountain all have outdoor rinks.

You intrigue me with this women's ice hockey idea. The floor area at the Holmes Dome is big enough to accommodate ice hockey and basketball. We could put a track around a new soccer pitch, which would give field events natural grass for shot put, discus and javelin and save the cost of building two new stadiums. I don't really know, but I can't imagine that installing ice making capabilities would be more expensive than building an old-style astroturf field and stadium. In addition to hockey games, we could host Disney on Ice events and hold open skates when the basketball teams are on the road. Hmmmm....

Problem is to put a rink in the HCC you would have to remove/rollback a good bit/if not all of the lower stands to put a full size rink in. The HCC was built to small as it is (storage/lockers not seats), you would have to add on to the building to add room for the walls, goals and Zamboni not including the space it would take to upgrade the cooling systems to keep the air temp low enough for the ice and the equipment to make the ice. Plus scheduling practices and games would be a nightmare.

[AppinVA]

I would rather have Division I women's ice hockey than field hockey.

First, I think the game of hockey is more exciting and would draw larger crowds.

Plus, we wouldn't have an AstroTurf field issue, and given that a lot of teams are in Northeast and Mid-Atlantic, the travel costs would have to be less than what they are in the NorPac:

http://www.uscho.com/team/#d1women

i don't know how much adding an ice floor to the HCC would be, but that might not be the only option, at least at first. Think outdoor hockey...Sugar, Beech, and App Ski Mountain all have outdoor rinks.

You intrigue me with this women's ice hockey idea. The floor area at the Holmes Dome is big enough to accommodate ice hockey and basketball. We could put a track around a new soccer pitch, which would give field events natural grass for shot put, discus and javelin and save the cost of building two new stadiums. I don't really know, but I can't imagine that installing ice making capabilities would be more expensive than building an old-style astroturf field and stadium. In addition to hockey games, we could host Disney on Ice events and hold open skates when the basketball teams are on the road. Hmmmm....

Problem is to put a rink in the HCC you would have to remove/rollback a good bit/if not all of the lower stands to put a full size rink in. The HCC was built to small as it is (storage/lockers not seats), you would have to add on to the building to add room for the walls, goals and Zamboni not including the space it would take to upgrade the cooling systems to keep the air temp low enough for the ice and the equipment to make the ice. Plus scheduling practices and games would be a nightmare.

An NHL sized rink is 200'x85'. It would be touch and go length-wise, but I figure to get 85 feet (say 95 feet for the penalty box/team areas), the sidelines would have to be rolled back 15 feet on each side, which would mean about eight rows on each side would be lost. It couldn't hurt to run the numbers.

[proudofyosef]

Good God, man, this is a frigging message board. Most of the ideas on here are pulled out of the asses of middle-aged white men. When the ASU athletic department commissions a report and pays me for it, I'll produce a budget. In the meantime, I'm just making a suggestion that's a little out of the box. Don't have cow! The attendance at the game last night was a pathetic 818!! The ASU men's basketball program gets outdrawn by Lees-McRae and most of the other D2 and D3 programs in the state. Do you not think that's a serious problem that requires thinking outside of "fire the coach?"[/quote]

What was that about not having a cow?

Of course men's basketball has a serious problem that requires thinking outside of "fire the coach" (though I think that's a good place to start). Any rational fan would think that. With that said, dropping men's basketball to add hockey is not a serious solution, and it's irrational to claim it would generate more revenue than basketball.[/quote]

Well, sir, you must be Midas if you can turn 14 crowds of 818 people into something resembling revenue. Despite your vast fiscal acumen, you are in a state of denial that cannot be penetrated.

[ASUMountaineer]

Well, sir, you must be Midas if you can turn 14 crowds of 818 people into something resembling revenue. Despite your vast fiscal acumen, you are in a state of denial that cannot be penetrated.

Please, educate us all with your "vast fiscal acumen."

Could you compare the ROI for men's basketball versus men's hockey? Keep in mind that your proposal requires that we add women's scholarships somewhere to keep Title IX compliant. Also, keep in mind of how much money it would cost to make the HCC capable of hosting hockey. Then, consider the added cost of more uniforms, equipment, and travel versus basketball. Lastly, keep in mind that our other sports would likely have to change conferences. In which conference would our other sports participate?

Are we to understand that you believe the ROI on hockey would be greater than the ROI on basketball? Are we to understand that you believe that App State would actually increase profits by dropping men's basketball and adding hockey? After App State makes the changes to the HCC, switches conferences, and adds women's scholarships how long do you think that it will take App State to break even and then to realize a profit?

I understand that you don't feel you need to provide any appropriate numbers because this is a message board with posts made out of people's asses. However, you are the one bringing up "fiscal acumen," so it seems fair to ask you to educate us--or, back up your assertion.

[asumike83]

Well, sir, you must be Midas if you can turn 14 crowds of 818 people into something resembling revenue. Despite your vast fiscal acumen, you are in a state of denial that cannot be penetrated.

Revenue is generated from far more than tickets sold, primarily NCAA revenue that is split among the conference members. The NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament generates exponentially more money than the NCAA Hockey Tournament and even though there are more teams playing NCAA basketball, the revenue share is significantly higher.

Plus, we play almost no basketball games that are not bus trips aside from the money games against major conference opponents. There is one team in all of Division I that fields a hockey team within driving distance from Boone. That means plane trips for EVERY away game and it is not cheap to fly an entire hockey team and all of their equipment.

There is also the issue of scholarships. Basketball is allowed 13 scholarships, Ice Hockey is allowed 18. If we drop basketball for hockey, that leaves us in a bind for Title IX, meaning that we'd have to cut more male scholarships or add more female scholarships. The only other option would be to only give 13 scholarships, which would defeat the purpose of fielding a team in the first place because we'd be horrible.

Ice hockey is a more expensive athletic program than basketball. More scholarships, more equipment and a hell of a lot more travel. We'd have to pay for facilities, make up for the cost difference and the NCAA revenue difference just to break even from this switch.

Along with that is the conference issue which you have not even attempted to address. No Division I conference, not a single one, will allow us full membership without a basketball program. That leaves us to find conferences individually for every sport we sponsor.

If you're going to insult someone else's fiscal acumen, do a little research first.

[sonsofyosef]

Continuing with the women's ice hockey team replacing field hockey sidebar...

The more I think about it, the more I think the University might find that not only students, but also the surrounding community could get excited about...and attend the women's ice hockey games.

Surely if the Appalachian Rollergirls http://www.appalachianrollergirls.com, without ice, sticks, and puck, have shown by their success that a sport of "female athleticism and empowerment" can strike a chord with High Country sports fans, then women's ice hockey might have a chance.

Look at it this way: the Rollergirls, beginning with a Facebook post by an App student in 2010, have essentially test-marketed (for the University), a very similar sport to women's ice hockey ..and succeeded.

[appgrouch]

Since we are Mountaineers, wouldn't it make more sense to drop basketball and add a NCAA Rifle Team?

[HighPointApp]

This thread has gone from stupid to idiotic. Just an observation.

[ImfromClayton]

http://www.uscho.com/stats/attendance/d ... z2HuzCZKHc

No denying if you can make d-1 Hockey work, it is a phenomenal experience for your school. College Hockey is the fastest growing sport in Division 1 athletics. Michigan, Wisconsin, The North Dakota schools all have Gold Mines on the ice. I will say it is most successful in the Midwest.