Hey, GUESS WHAT, We are YOUNG !!!

[WVAPPeer]

I know some of you guys don't want to hear this - you equate it to excuses - but here are the facts --- take a look and tell me you DON'T SEE some real potential here for the years to come ---
AND THIS LIST DOES NOT INCLUDE RED-SHIRT PLAYERS WHO MANY SEE AS REAL CONTRIBUTORS WHEN THEY DO PLAY ---

These players either started or played significant time at these positions ---
QB - Lamb - FR
RB - Cox - SO
RB - Upshaw - FR
WR - Jones - JR
WR - McElfresh - JR
WR - Beathard - JR
WR - McGuire - JR
WR- Lewis - FR
WR - Meadors - FR
WR - Sumler - JR*
WR - Jones - FR
TE - Burns - SO
OL - Nunn - FR
OL - Collmer - FR
OL - Collins - SO
OL - Chapman - JR
OL - Harris - JR
--------------------------------------
DL - Fernandez - SO
DL - Blair - JR
DL - Small - SO
DL - Dada - SO
DL - Norwood - SO
DL - Bronson - JR
DL - Burns - JR
DL - Benton - FR
LB - Law - SO
LB - Gilcrist - SO
LB - Vinson - FR
LB - Boggs - FR
LB - Stringer - FR
LB - Townes - SO
LB - Sombo - JR
LB - Ward - JR
LB - Walton - JR
DB - Howard - FR
DB - Gray - SO
DB - Ford - SO
DB - Garnett - FR
DB - Middleton - JR
DB - Blackmon - So
DB - Gibbs - FR
DB - Krah - JR

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ADD ANYONE I MISSED ---

[appst89]

I don't think anyone has ever disagreed with the premise that we are young. However, young players become less young as they gain playing time and they should show improvement. That is the thing that has me the most upset; we are not getting better, especially on defense. We have some pieces on offense, but I don't think we can take a lot from the Liberty game to say they are getting better because LU had the worst defense of any of the scholarship programs we have played. I just don't see any growth to tell me we are experiencing growing pains. I'm more than willing to endure growing pains as long as we are showing progress. We're not.

And I'm not calling for Satt's head. But there are more than a few things I have concerns about and I want to see how he addresses them.

[AppSt94]

Dude,

Once again you are the voice of reason. I don't enjoy all of the rants on the board this weekend. The one thing that I can get behind is a change back to the 4-3. We just aren't supporting our young DB's with a formidable pass rush. My question is this. If a change is made either in coaches or philosophy to a 4-3 alignment, do we have the players to make a smooth transition?

[AppStateNews]

Dude,

Once again you are the voice of reason. I don't enjoy all of the rants on the board this weekend. The one thing that I can get behind is a change back to the 4-3. We just aren't supporting our young DB's with a formidable pass rush. My question is this. If a change is made either in coaches or philosophy to a 4-3 alignment, do we have the players to make a smooth transition?

The problem with going to a 4-3 now, is next year when our first recruits that were actually recruited for the 3-4 hit the field, they will have half a season running the 4-3 under their belts instead of a full season with the 3-4. Look at the defense.. not one person playing was recruited for a 3-4.

[WVAPPeer]

I don't think anyone has ever disagreed with the premise that we are young. However, young players become less young as they gain playing time and they should show improvement. That is the thing that has me the most upset; we are not getting better, especially on defense. We have some pieces on offense, but I don't think we can take a lot from the Liberty game to say they are getting better because LU had the worst defense of any of the scholarship programs we have played. I just don't see any growth to tell me we are experiencing growing pains. I'm more than willing to endure growing pains as long as we are showing progress. We're not.

And I'm not calling for Satt's head. But there are more than a few things I have concerns about and I want to see how he addresses them.

Well we did put 200 more yards on them than the "vaunted" Tar Heel offense - take out the Campbell game and we are still averaging about 425 yards of offense a game --- for the most case the defense has done a decent job against the run - of course, our pass defense is porous but as I said in another post go back and look at our pass defense in 2004 when we were playing so many young guys ---

[bigdaddyg]

It must be acknowledged that this horse has long since been beaten to death but the reality is that this team IS very young. If we had executed chip shot field goals and extra points our record would be 3-3. With wins over the next two comparitively "weak" opponents we would be at 5-3 and 2-2 in the Sunbelt. The next 3 games would probably be losses and then a final win over Idaho would put the season at 6-6. Next season with more experienced personnel a 7-5 or 8-4 record would not be out of the question. Don't get me wrong I am just as upset as everyone else about the coaching decisions and lack of execution but I wonder what the posts would look like if we had just made 2 more field goals.

[AppSt94]

I don't think anyone has ever disagreed with the premise that we are young. However, young players become less young as they gain playing time and they should show improvement. That is the thing that has me the most upset; we are not getting better, especially on defense. We have some pieces on offense, but I don't think we can take a lot from the Liberty game to say they are getting better because LU had the worst defense of any of the scholarship programs we have played. I just don't see any growth to tell me we are experiencing growing pains. I'm more than willing to endure growing pains as long as we are showing progress. We're not.

And I'm not calling for Satt's head. But there are more than a few things I have concerns about and I want to see how he addresses them.

Is it a matter of improvement or a matter of consistency? The defense played well against So. Miss. and kept it close. The defense spent a lot of time on the field. Our run defense has been pretty good but our lack of a push of front is exposing our secondary.

[App91]

The problem with the youth is that they are not getting BETTER as the 1.5 yrs progress. I see no reason to believe that they will improve over the 4 years. The idea is to grow the kids into great players, but the coaching is lacking. There is no lower to go from here. Any lower and its the Bill Cosby Temple FB team wearing their helmets backwards!

[AppSt94]

Dude,

Once again you are the voice of reason. I don't enjoy all of the rants on the board this weekend. The one thing that I can get behind is a change back to the 4-3. We just aren't supporting our young DB's with a formidable pass rush. My question is this. If a change is made either in coaches or philosophy to a 4-3 alignment, do we have the players to make a smooth transition?

The problem with going to a 4-3 now, is next year when our first recruits that were actually recruited for the 3-4 hit the field, they will have half a season running the 4-3 under their belts instead of a full season with the 3-4. Look at the defense.. not one person playing was recruited for a 3-4.

Thanks that answers my question. It makes sense that removing the 3-4 now would set us back even further. I just thought that in a 4-3 with Dada and Fernandez manning the tackle box we would be strong up the middle.

[AppStateNews]

Thanks that answers my question. It makes sense that removing the 3-4 now would set us back even further. I just thought that in a 4-3 with Dada and Fernandez manning the tackle box we would be strong up the middle.

You are welcome! I agree we are better suited for a 4-3 right now, but, it's evident we are building for the future right now.

[WVAPPeer]

The problem with the youth is that they are not getting BETTER as the 1.5 yrs progress. I see no reason to believe that they will improve over the 4 years. The idea is to grow the kids into great players, but the coaching is lacking. There is no lower to go from here. Any lower and its the Bill Cosby Temple FB team wearing their helmets backwards!

Come on 91 - how can you honestly say the offense is not getting better - man I know you are upset, but step back and look at it - I agree I see no real improvement in the overall defense but you do remember 2004 and our defense was pathetic and many were calling for Coach Moore to be canned just like Satterfield is now but APP certainly has a history of developing good players/teams - don't know why this season should be any different??? ---

[The Rock]

Young doesn't have to equate to losing. There is talent on the team. As others have said, if we were improving you could qualify it as youth. Last year was painful but you could argue new coaches, new schemes, youth, etc. but we were improving I think. This year it is like we re started from week 1 of last season and haven't grown since then.
Few times earlier this season you can think , a guy was out of position, that's fixable, that's coach-able that is a youth mistake, lately it isn't that.
To me this is a coaching issue. I'm not trying to turn this into a fire Satterfield thread, I know we will give him 4 years, but I have serious reservations about his ability to produce wins on the field. We have had 2 great recruiting classes under him and picked up some great athletes and some even considerd to be steals from better schools. He may be a great recruiter, BUT if this potential cannot be converted to on field success, that is a coaching issue.
I know we are still building up out 2 deeps, we don't have as many skilled backups as we need, to be competitive at this level. If we were winning early in the game, but lost leads because backups cannot compete at the same levels as starters, I would buy it. But we are not. We are dominated from opening kickoff in every facet of the game.
Our defense cannot stop anyone. We say we are undersized in the trenches and need to have bigger linemen to compete in FBS play. Did we get pressure on libertys qb one time on Saturday? He had all day to pass. Why when playing an FCS team with less scholarship players and not 2-3 star recruits did they move the ball at will? Why are we giving receivers a 5-7 yard cushion allowing the qb to exploit that bubble and pass for 7-9 yardsa on 3rd and 5 situations? Again, not trying to bash coaches or demand firings, but I just don't see improvement and to me, it has nothing to do with youth. They have to be given the tools to succeed and thus far, I don't think they have been.

[WVAPPeer]

Young doesn't have to equate to losing. There is talent on the team. As others have said, if we were improving you could qualify it as youth. Last year was painful but you could argue new coaches, new schemes, youth, etc. but we were improving I think. This year it is like we re started from week 1 of last season and haven't grown since then.
Few times earlier this season you can think , a guy was out of position, that's fixable, that's coach-able that is a youth mistake, lately it isn't that.
To me this is a coaching issue. I'm not trying to turn this into a fire Satterfield thread, I know we will give him 4 years, but I have serious reservations about his ability to produce wins on the field. We have had 2 great recruiting classes under him and picked up some great athletes and some even considerd to be steals from better schools. He may be a great recruiter, BUT if this potential cannot be converted to on field success, that is a coaching issue.
I know we are still building up out 2 deeps, we don't have as many skilled backups as we need, to be competitive at this level. If we were winning early in the game, but lost leads because backups cannot compete at the same levels as starters, I would buy it. But we are not. We are dominated from opening kickoff in every facet of the game.
Our defense cannot stop anyone. We say we are undersized in the trenches and need to have bigger linemen to compete in FBS play. Did we get pressure on libertys qb one time on Saturday? He had all day to pass. Why when playing an FCS team with less scholarship players and not 2-3 star recruits did they move the ball at will? Why are we giving receivers a 5-7 yard cushion allowing the qb to exploit that bubble and pass for 7-9 yardsa on 3rd and 5 situations? Again, not trying to bash coaches or demand firings, but I just don't see improvement and to me, it has nothing to do with youth. They have to be given the tools to succeed and thus far, I don't think they have been.

You see NO IMPROVEMENT with our offense?

[appstate2007]

I agree with the fact that the team is young. You can see it in the size of the players. They look like a bunch of high school kids playing and they are making dumb mistakes that hopefully will get corrected. The pill that is hard to shallow is that they lost to a FCS team. Now I know, other sun belt teams (Troy this year, Georgia St, last year) has lost to FCS team recently, but this one stings. Everyone knew that Liberty had this game circled. They wanted to show the SBC that they belonged in the conference and should get a call up. Well they proved there point. They played with confidence. App played with a hope that they would win, and Liberty played with confidence they were going to win. App used to have this type of confidence back in the mid 2000's. But it is gone. They only way to get it back is to find a way to roll off a winning streak! It is sad to see the Rock have so many open seats. Yes the weather for the Campbell game and Liberty was not all that good, but it has more to do with the product on the field. Got to improve and got to improve soon!

[The Rock]

Young doesn't have to equate to losing. There is talent on the team. As others have said, if we were improving you could qualify it as youth. Last year was painful but you could argue new coaches, new schemes, youth, etc. but we were improving I think. This year it is like we re started from week 1 of last season and haven't grown since then.
Few times earlier this season you can think , a guy was out of position, that's fixable, that's coach-able that is a youth mistake, lately it isn't that.
To me this is a coaching issue. I'm not trying to turn this into a fire Satterfield thread, I know we will give him 4 years, but I have serious reservations about his ability to produce wins on the field. We have had 2 great recruiting classes under him and picked up some great athletes and some even considerd to be steals from better schools. He may be a great recruiter, BUT if this potential cannot be converted to on field success, that is a coaching issue.
I know we are still building up out 2 deeps, we don't have as many skilled backups as we need, to be competitive at this level. If we were winning early in the game, but lost leads because backups cannot compete at the same levels as starters, I would buy it. But we are not. We are dominated from opening kickoff in every facet of the game.
Our defense cannot stop anyone. We say we are undersized in the trenches and need to have bigger linemen to compete in FBS play. Did we get pressure on libertys qb one time on Saturday? He had all day to pass. Why when playing an FCS team with less scholarship players and not 2-3 star recruits did they move the ball at will? Why are we giving receivers a 5-7 yard cushion allowing the qb to exploit that bubble and pass for 7-9 yardsa on 3rd and 5 situations? Again, not trying to bash coaches or demand firings, but I just don't see improvement and to me, it has nothing to do with youth. They have to be given the tools to succeed and thus far, I don't think they have been.

You see NO IMPROVEMENT with our offense?

Our offense has looked good in two games this year. Campbell and liberty. Even in the liberty game lamb had 2 interceptions, which is becoming a trend and cox had 2 fumbles, which is becoming a trend. Overall offense played well but not sure if I'm ready to say it improved due to the competition and turnovers.

[WVAPPeer]

Well I don't believe that is statistically correct -
Michigan - 300 total yards
So Miss - 455 total yards
Ga So - 330 total yards
So Ala - 400 total yards

[The Rock]

Well I don't believe that is statistically correct -
Michigan - 300 total yards
So Miss - 455 total yards
Ga So - 330 total yards
So Ala - 400 total yards

I believe your statistics are somewhat misleading as well. How many of these yards were gained well after the game had been decided? I would venture to say nearly 50% of the yards at Michigan were gained in the 4th quarter long after the dogs had been called off, same for southern Alabama. Let's look at 1st half stats, specifically 1st quarter, where the yardage actually counts and the outcome is yet to be determined.
Furthermore, moving the ball is great, but those yards don't equal points. Even if we drove 99 yards every drive, is that successful if we can't convert it to points?

[WVAPPeer]

Well I don't believe that is statistically correct -
Michigan - 300 total yards
So Miss - 455 total yards
Ga So - 330 total yards
So Ala - 400 total yards

I believe your statistics are somewhat misleading as well. How many of these yards were gained well after the game had been decided? I would venture to say nearly 50% of the yards at Michigan were gained in the 4th quarter long after the dogs had been called off, same for southern Alabama. Let's look at 1st half stats, specifically 1st quarter, where the yardage actually counts and the outcome is yet to be determined.
Furthermore, moving the ball is great, but those yards don't equal points. Even if we drove 99 yards every drive, is that successful if we can't convert it to points?

If your argument is converting in the red zone then I would be in agreement - that is not what you initially said ---

[bigdaddyg]

Interesting stat:

D1 offensive yards per game rankings:

GA Tech- 49
App- 50
South Carolina- 51
Duke- 52
UNC- 53

We can move the ball. Has just come down to red zone efficiency (horrible) and kicking game (beyond words). Defense- 3-4 putting too much pressure on inexperienced db's.

[ASUMountaineer]

My two biggest beefs: 1) the defense does not appear to be improving, but a long talk with firemoose helped me with this one and 2) burning the shirts on Benton and Meadors. Meadors played really well, but why now? We were already 1-4. That decision still makes no sense to me.