So Much For That Excuse

[Pikapp79]

Never a penny to NIL. If that’s what it takes see you college sports.

In all seriousness college sports has become a whole lot less fun when the discussion revolves around begging fans for player salaries. Once fans who give see players not meet their expectations funds will drop off especially for teams not capable of making the playoffs. At this point I will still pony up for season tickets but the day is fast approaching where no longer will I send a dime to a college sports program.

[Bootsy]

Remind me again, who said our staff was lazy in recruiting?

[WataugaMan]

At the end of the day, I really feel bad for Shawn. The amount of stress he's feeling must be off the charts. I hope the team makes a turn around, wins 3 more games to include a bowl. If he returns next season, I truly hope that it is "the season" and he succeeds. At the end of the day, what's going to happen will happen. I just want to be positive and hope for the best, as I feel most of us do. Yes, Shawn has made a lot of mistakes. But, to be honest, so have I. I think I've said a lot, and for me at this point, I believe I'll stay silent and fly under the radar for awhile.

[Pikapp79]

At the end of the day, I really feel bad for Shawn. The amount of stress he's feeling must be off the charts. I hope the team makes a turn around, wins 3 more games to include a bowl. If he returns next season, I truly hope that it is "the season" and he succeeds. At the end of the day, what's going to happen will happen. I just want to be positive and hope for the best, as I feel most of us do. Yes, Shawn has made a lot of mistakes. But, to be honest, so have I. I think I've said a lot, and for me at this point, I believe I stay silent and fly under the radar for awhile.

I think most of us are pulling for him but in the end it’s a performance based business. No one knows this better than Shawn. The results aren’t meeting the standard that has been set and with that comes action. Coaches are paid big bucks to perform and when they don’t it’s time to move on.

Even if he is not retained he will land another highly paid position. He will land firmly on his feet.

[WataugaMan]

At the end of the day, I really feel bad for Shawn. The amount of stress he's feeling must be off the charts. I hope the team makes a turn around, wins 3 more games to include a bowl. If he returns next season, I truly hope that it is "the season" and he succeeds. At the end of the day, what's going to happen will happen. I just want to be positive and hope for the best, as I feel most of us do. Yes, Shawn has made a lot of mistakes. But, to be honest, so have I. I think I've said a lot, and for me at this point, I believe I stay silent and fly under the radar for awhile.

I think most of us are pulling for him but in the end it’s a performance based business. No one knows this better than Shawn. The results aren’t meeting the standard that has been set and with that comes action. Coaches are paid big bucks to perform and when they don’t it’s time to move on.

Even if he is not retained he will land another highly paid position. He will land firmly on his feet.

True that, regardless of how things play out. At the end of the day, we all want Shawn to succeed wherever that may be.

[Kafarmer]

Some of you are so adept at how to recruit….. why have you not gone into coaching? I mean, you have all the answers!

[AppStFan1]

A couple years back I voiced concerns about o line recruiting and development. Was basically called an alarmist, which hurt deeply, and told we had a plan. To their defense they didn’t say it was a good one…

An issue is often due to something that started happening a few years prior. You were just being proactive and it was something I noticed as well because we were seeing all of those OL recruits leave or not pan out for some reason.

Just look at our OL recruiting since 2020. I won't include the 2024 class but so far it looks like Jayden Ramsey is the only HS OL recruit who has panned out at all in the last 5 years. Sweatt is still unknown due to injury. If we had hit on Presnell, Everett, Powers, Lindsay, Essek, Williams, Ramsey, and Reeves would Shawn have felt the need to go heavy in the portal? Probably not and that would have saved NIL money that could have been saved. Presnell was a huge gamble and the only OL we signed in that class. A coach I know told me that you should sign at least 2-3 OL in every class but for some reason Presnell was the only one we signed in that class.

[AppStFan1]

Remind me again, who said our staff was lazy in recruiting?

Someone posted on here that a former coach here said it but I don't know who their source is.

[BambooRdApp]

A couple years back I voiced concerns about o line recruiting and development. Was basically called an alarmist, which hurt deeply, and told we had a plan. To their defense they didn’t say it was a good one…

An issue is often due to something that started happening a few years prior. You were just being proactive and it was something I noticed as well because we were seeing all of those OL recruits leave or not pan out for some reason.

Just look at our OL recruiting since 2020. I won't include the 2024 class but so far it looks like Jayden Ramsey is the only HS OL recruit who has panned out at all in the last 5 years. Sweatt is still unknown due to injury. If we had hit on Presnell, Everett, Powers, Lindsay, Essek, Williams, Ramsey, and Reeves would Shawn have felt the need to go heavy in the portal? Probably not and that would have saved NIL money that could have been saved. Presnell was a huge gamble and the only OL we signed in that class. A coach I know told me that you should sign at least 2-3 OL in every class but for some reason Presnell was the only one we signed in that class.

This is example one in why you do not rely 90% on the HS or portal. Some years will be great....some will not... diversification in today's era is critical. Do I wish every single recruit was a high school recruited player...you betcha....but that perfect scenario never works out...

[AppStFan1]

A couple years back I voiced concerns about o line recruiting and development. Was basically called an alarmist, which hurt deeply, and told we had a plan. To their defense they didn’t say it was a good one…

An issue is often due to something that started happening a few years prior. You were just being proactive and it was something I noticed as well because we were seeing all of those OL recruits leave or not pan out for some reason.

Just look at our OL recruiting since 2020. I won't include the 2024 class but so far it looks like Jayden Ramsey is the only HS OL recruit who has panned out at all in the last 5 years. Sweatt is still unknown due to injury. If we had hit on Presnell, Everett, Powers, Lindsay, Essek, Williams, Ramsey, and Reeves would Shawn have felt the need to go heavy in the portal? Probably not and that would have saved NIL money that could have been saved. Presnell was a huge gamble and the only OL we signed in that class. A coach I know told me that you should sign at least 2-3 OL in every class but for some reason Presnell was the only one we signed in that class.

This is example one in why you do not rely 90% on the HS or portal. Some years will be great....some will not... diversification in today's era is critical. Do I wish every single recruit was a high school recruited player...you betcha....but that perfect scenario never works out...

Look how many of them we have taken that have not ever played. When it comes to HS OL recruiting we have had just 1 pan out in 5 years and have had many misses from the portal. We are missing way too many with both. My comment about recruiting HS harder is that if we do a good job on hitting in that area then we won't need to go to the portal as heavily and that will save on NIL.

Our results in both tells me that we need to make changes in who is evaluating and picking the players we offer. There are a lot of good ones out there but we are missing on them. I can point to a lot of quality FCS OL that we did not even offer out of HS.

[BambooRdApp]

A couple years back I voiced concerns about o line recruiting and development. Was basically called an alarmist, which hurt deeply, and told we had a plan. To their defense they didn’t say it was a good one…

An issue is often due to something that started happening a few years prior. You were just being proactive and it was something I noticed as well because we were seeing all of those OL recruits leave or not pan out for some reason.

Just look at our OL recruiting since 2020. I won't include the 2024 class but so far it looks like Jayden Ramsey is the only HS OL recruit who has panned out at all in the last 5 years. Sweatt is still unknown due to injury. If we had hit on Presnell, Everett, Powers, Lindsay, Essek, Williams, Ramsey, and Reeves would Shawn have felt the need to go heavy in the portal? Probably not and that would have saved NIL money that could have been saved. Presnell was a huge gamble and the only OL we signed in that class. A coach I know told me that you should sign at least 2-3 OL in every class but for some reason Presnell was the only one we signed in that class.

This is example one in why you do not rely 90% on the HS or portal. Some years will be great....some will not... diversification in today's era is critical. Do I wish every single recruit was a high school recruited player...you betcha....but that perfect scenario never works out...

The same can be said for what is available in the portal. Look how many of them we have taken that have not ever played. When it comes to HS OL recruiting we have had just 1 pan out in 5 years and have had many misses from the portal. We are missing way too many with both. My comment about recruiting HS harder is that if we do a good job on hitting in that area then we won't need to go to the portal as heavily and that will save on NIL.

Our results in both tells me that we need to make changes in who is evaluating and picking the players we offer. There are a lot of good ones out there but we are missing on them. I can point to a lot of quality FCS OL that we did not even offer out of HS.

Hmm. Doesn't my response State HS or portal...

[Mjohn1988]

I can’t say that any of our coaches are “lazy”. But I’ll ask this question, can you name a single position group that is better or even as good as the team Coach Clark took over? My answer to my own question is no and no. The reason isn’t important to me. For me recruiting needs to improve drastically.

[AppStFan1]

A couple years back I voiced concerns about o line recruiting and development. Was basically called an alarmist, which hurt deeply, and told we had a plan. To their defense they didn’t say it was a good one…

An issue is often due to something that started happening a few years prior. You were just being proactive and it was something I noticed as well because we were seeing all of those OL recruits leave or not pan out for some reason.

Just look at our OL recruiting since 2020. I won't include the 2024 class but so far it looks like Jayden Ramsey is the only HS OL recruit who has panned out at all in the last 5 years. Sweatt is still unknown due to injury. If we had hit on Presnell, Everett, Powers, Lindsay, Essek, Williams, Ramsey, and Reeves would Shawn have felt the need to go heavy in the portal? Probably not and that would have saved NIL money that could have been saved. Presnell was a huge gamble and the only OL we signed in that class. A coach I know told me that you should sign at least 2-3 OL in every class but for some reason Presnell was the only one we signed in that class.

This is example one in why you do not rely 90% on the HS or portal. Some years will be great....some will not... diversification in today's era is critical. Do I wish every single recruit was a high school recruited player...you betcha....but that perfect scenario never works out...

The same can be said for what is available in the portal. Look how many of them we have taken that have not ever played. When it comes to HS OL recruiting we have had just 1 pan out in 5 years and have had many misses from the portal. We are missing way too many with both. My comment about recruiting HS harder is that if we do a good job on hitting in that area then we won't need to go to the portal as heavily and that will save on NIL.

Our results in both tells me that we need to make changes in who is evaluating and picking the players we offer. There are a lot of good ones out there but we are missing on them. I can point to a lot of quality FCS OL that we did not even offer out of HS.

Hmm. Doesn't my response State HS or portal...

I missed where it says or portal. We are missing heavily in both so that tells me that it is not the supply of talent but rather who is picking the players or else we have talent and it is just not being developed.

The reality is we are missing at a lot higher rate with HS players than we use to. When we are hitting on 30% or less that is a bad sign.

Here are the numbers for his first 3 classes out of HS:
2020- 6 of 19 (31.5%)- 2 have left though so if you take those still here then 4 of 19 (21.0%)
2021- 6 of 22 (27.2%)
2022- 5 of 15 (33.3%)

Hit rate is roughly 30.3% for those 3 classes. We really need to be 50-60%. This is why I say just taking 12 in this 2025 class is not a good move because we are likely to just have 3-4 pan out based on past recruiting history and that would leave us with a badly depleted class.

[t4pizza]

I can’t say that any of our coaches are “lazy”. But I’ll ask this question, can you name a single position group that is better or even as good as the team Coach Clark took over? My answer to my own question is no and no. The reason isn’t important to me. For me recruiting needs to improve drastically.

The only groups that I think can even be argued to be better would be our WR group (I am sure there are plenty that would disagree) and our TEs are good and a very deep group as well. That is the best I can do, and even those two are stretches.

[AppStFan1]

I can’t say that any of our coaches are “lazy”. But I’ll ask this question, can you name a single position group that is better or even as good as the team Coach Clark took over? My answer to my own question is no and no. The reason isn’t important to me. For me recruiting needs to improve drastically.

The person said a coach said our recruiting is lazy if I remember correctly. Coaches are relying on support staff heavily so if the recommendations given to them are thin and missing a lot of quality players then our coaches are not being given good information to make accurate decisions. I think it is a combo of both. I feel like our recruiting people are doing a bad job and I think coaching is not doing well for two reasons. 1. Coordinators (Ponce is not creative and Sloan does not have a system he believes in because he keeps changing it). 2. We are seeing many players regress and very little progression in the performance of players.

Does anyone have numbers on amount of injured players over the last 2 years compared to when we had Iron Mike? I would be curious to see if we are having more injuries or just seems like more because we have a lot less players panning out.

[AppStFan1]

I can’t say that any of our coaches are “lazy”. But I’ll ask this question, can you name a single position group that is better or even as good as the team Coach Clark took over? My answer to my own question is no and no. The reason isn’t important to me. For me recruiting needs to improve drastically.

The only groups that I think can even be argued to be better would be our WR group (I am sure there are plenty that would disagree) and our TEs are good and a very deep group as well. That is the best I can do, and even those two are stretches.

Is it the group or just 1 really good player? Christian Horn is a real good WR who should be a 800+ yard guy and All-Sun Belt but we have not seen him develop. I think we have 2-3 TEs beyond Wilson with a chance but we are not seeing anyone take that next step up fully.

I wonder if Gillin has looked at Montana State's Brent Vigen as a coaching candidate? I hate to say this but he has more NFL talent than we do and his current team would beat us.

[t4pizza]

I can’t say that any of our coaches are “lazy”. But I’ll ask this question, can you name a single position group that is better or even as good as the team Coach Clark took over? My answer to my own question is no and no. The reason isn’t important to me. For me recruiting needs to improve drastically.

The only groups that I think can even be argued to be better would be our WR group (I am sure there are plenty that would disagree) and our TEs are good and a very deep group as well. That is the best I can do, and even those two are stretches.

Is it the group or just 1 really good player? Christian Horn is a real good WR who should be a 800+ yard guy and All-Sun Belt but we have not seen him develop. I think we have 2-3 TEs beyond Wilson with a chance but we are not seeing anyone take that next step up fully.

I think it is the group. KRob has had 2 really good years, Horn is really good (agree that he could be used better), Stroman can be a beast, Jackson is really good and may be the best of the group. So yeah, I think the group as a whole is really good. Honestly, if Joey actually went through progressions and didn't just laser focus on his intended target, all of these guys could shine brightly. Watching games in person (and even on tv but it is harder to see the entire field on tv), some one is usually open but rarely does that person get the ball thrown to him, unless that was Joey's intent from the get go.

[BambooRdApp]

An issue is often due to something that started happening a few years prior. You were just being proactive and it was something I noticed as well because we were seeing all of those OL recruits leave or not pan out for some reason.

Just look at our OL recruiting since 2020. I won't include the 2024 class but so far it looks like Jayden Ramsey is the only HS OL recruit who has panned out at all in the last 5 years. Sweatt is still unknown due to injury. If we had hit on Presnell, Everett, Powers, Lindsay, Essek, Williams, Ramsey, and Reeves would Shawn have felt the need to go heavy in the portal? Probably not and that would have saved NIL money that could have been saved. Presnell was a huge gamble and the only OL we signed in that class. A coach I know told me that you should sign at least 2-3 OL in every class but for some reason Presnell was the only one we signed in that class.

This is example one in why you do not rely 90% on the HS or portal. Some years will be great....some will not... diversification in today's era is critical. Do I wish every single recruit was a high school recruited player...you betcha....but that perfect scenario never works out...

The same can be said for what is available in the portal. Look how many of them we have taken that have not ever played. When it comes to HS OL recruiting we have had just 1 pan out in 5 years and have had many misses from the portal. We are missing way too many with both. My comment about recruiting HS harder is that if we do a good job on hitting in that area then we won't need to go to the portal as heavily and that will save on NIL.

Our results in both tells me that we need to make changes in who is evaluating and picking the players we offer. There are a lot of good ones out there but we are missing on them. I can point to a lot of quality FCS OL that we did not even offer out of HS.

Hmm. Doesn't my response State HS or portal...

I missed where it says or portal. We are missing heavily in both so that tells me that it is not the supply of talent but rather who is picking the players or else we have talent and it is just not being developed.

The reality is we are missing at a lot higher rate with HS players than we use to. When we are hitting on 30% or less that is a bad sign.

Here are the numbers for his first 3 classes out of HS:
2020- 6 of 19 (31.5%)- 2 have left though so if you take those still here then 4 of 19 (21.0%)
2021- 6 of 22 (27.2%)
2022- 5 of 15 (33.3%)

Hit rate is roughly 30.3% for those 3 classes. We really need to be 50-60%. This is why I say just taking 12 in this 2025 class is not a good move because we are likely to just have 3-4 pan out based on past recruiting history and that would leave us with a badly depleted class.

Missing on both is a totally different discussion compared to where we should be spending our time

[Mjohn1988]

I can’t say that any of our coaches are “lazy”. But I’ll ask this question, can you name a single position group that is better or even as good as the team Coach Clark took over? My answer to my own question is no and no. The reason isn’t important to me. For me recruiting needs to improve drastically.

The only groups that I think can even be argued to be better would be our WR group (I am sure there are plenty that would disagree) and our TEs are good and a very deep group as well. That is the best I can do, and even those two are stretches.

No doubt the receiver group is our absolute best position group. But all the contributors started with us in 2020, Robinson, Stroman, Horn and Maki. So while one could argue these are Clark’s guys they could also be Drink’s guys. That said I don’t think the current group is an upgrade from 2019, Virgil, Wells, Tucker, Sutton and Hennigan. I think 4 of those guys went to NFL camps. We are a steady down hill from 2019.

[Bigdaddyg1]

How stupid would some App fans feel if they started writing big checks for NIL and we dropped down to Florida State, Oklahoma State, Utah, yes UCF, Maryland, Mississippi State, Auburn, Oklahoma level? Weren’t they all excited at Kentucky after they beat Ole Miss? Do they pay for play at any or all of those schools? Should they fire all of those coaches? I don’t have these answers but I’m just asking? Do those programs have any portal players? Down seasons and down cycles happen for many reasons.