So Much For That Excuse

[AppStFan1]

Staffing changes? Two year contracts that deepen the financial commitment? Are competent , qualified assistant coaches going to sign on with a head coach on the edge?

The coordinators are in year 2 of their 2 year deals, right?

Personally, I think a change in DC and defensive philosophy will work wonders. The scheme we run from Woody requires too many reps with each other to master. That's simply not going to happen in this era of NIL and transfer portal.

It would help but we still have many other issues and we would have to give a new DC 2 years. I think if Shawn comes back that next year is do or die for him. I think we either clean house or keep the staff in tact because staff turnover will again be used as an excuse next year.

[JTApps1]

I have been told by the parent of high school kids who attended App State's prospect camps the last 3 years that they're nowhere near as good as others. They said the one in 2022 was by far the worst as Dale Jones didn't care and they felt the staff didn't care. In 2023 they said it was slightly better, but felt like the coaches were not enthusiastic about it. This parent told me players who beforehand wanted to play at App changed their mind after these camps. And this parent is an App State fan.

I've said this in other threads, but it's likely the result of too many coaches on staff being in the twilight of their career. The improvement in 2023 correlates with staff changes made after the 2022 season, but I think many of use felt there should have been a few more changes that year.

[311neers]

B&GP recent podcast has plenty of excuses during the football segment.

[AppSt94]

One definition of obtuse is "slow to understand". Some people need to catch up.

I know that you are trying to buddy. Keep up the good work.

Serious question: how bad would things have to get with App football before you would be on board with coaching changes?

If I thought that Shawn was the problem, then I’d be the first one to get in line to pack the house. But I just don’t see it that way. I’ve explained my reasonings ad nauseum over many threads and I don’t want to waste any more of anyone’s time with the same people posting that I’m making excuses and it’s a loser’s mentality. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I’ve provided mine and defended it with way more effort than it deserves on this platform.

I’m not saying that I don’t get frustrated with the results. I do. But I just don’t feel like change at the top is needed. I’ll support Shawn as long as the team supports him. If someone new comes in, I’ll support them too.

[AppSt94]

So, you think it is obtuse to base conclusions about the football team on wins and losses? And people in charge agree with that? The steady decline of the program makes perfect sense now.

If you don’t understand why the Wins/Losses occurred then yes. Like you, I understand what I see on the field during a game. The difference is that we don’t know what happens during the week. Basing a conclusion on 10% of the information, and I’m being generous with that %, is well, obtuse.

I guess we will never agree. I simply cannot comprehend a world where performance doesn't matter.

Serious question(s) based on your previous comment. If performance matters, and I’m not saying that it doesn’t; why is everyone that is demanding change because of two sub par seasons discounting the 10 win and two 9 win seasons?

I get the frustration, I do. I never said that I wasn’t frustrated too. But trying to look at the big picture of why it is currently what it is gets shouted down by those that just want their version of Utopia where everyone can be good as long as we are great.

I don’t know where this is going to end up. The BoT may decide to either support him or move on from him. But here is the concern that I have. Either decision is likely not going to be unanimous and that could cause some issues within the leadership of the school. I’m not saying it will, but it could.

I can only speak for myself, and I don't discount those seasons, but the overall trend is, and has been, downward for the last few years. I can't tell my bosses that we had record sales five years ago to account for three straight years of declining sales.

I think the big picture IS wins and losses.

There are risks in making any decision. My biggest concern is that he gets another year and the apathy that is growing now gets a firm foothold.

I respectfully disagree that apathy will take hold. Football is life for a lot of people. It has its own niche in today’s culture. The hype around the opening of other sports season pales in comparison to football.

[t4pizza]

If you don’t understand why the Wins/Losses occurred then yes. Like you, I understand what I see on the field during a game. The difference is that we don’t know what happens during the week. Basing a conclusion on 10% of the information, and I’m being generous with that %, is well, obtuse.

I guess we will never agree. I simply cannot comprehend a world where performance doesn't matter.

Serious question(s) based on your previous comment. If performance matters, and I’m not saying that it doesn’t; why is everyone that is demanding change because of two sub par seasons discounting the 10 win and two 9 win seasons?

I get the frustration, I do. I never said that I wasn’t frustrated too. But trying to look at the big picture of why it is currently what it is gets shouted down by those that just want their version of Utopia where everyone can be good as long as we are great.

I don’t know where this is going to end up. The BoT may decide to either support him or move on from him. But here is the concern that I have. Either decision is likely not going to be unanimous and that could cause some issues within the leadership of the school. I’m not saying it will, but it could.

I can only speak for myself, and I don't discount those seasons, but the overall trend is, and has been, downward for the last few years. I can't tell my bosses that we had record sales five years ago to account for three straight years of declining sales.

I think the big picture IS wins and losses.

There are risks in making any decision. My biggest concern is that he gets another year and the apathy that is growing now gets a firm foothold.

I respectfully disagree that apathy will take hold. Football is life for a lot of people. It has its own niche in today’s culture. The hype around the opening of other sports season pales in comparison to football.

I tend to agree. I get that there may be some apathy in the "super fan" category (of which I would consider all on this board) but the average fan really does just want to get to Boone and have a good time on game day. Most don't even care who we play. Don't agree with that, just look at the attendance figures for our FCS games- they still sell out. There may be a point when apathy would start setting in, but it won't be in the immediate future and we will see the signs prior to the start of the season. When we no longer set records for Yosef contributions, we no longer sell out season tickets before the season, we no longer have a waiting list for season tickets, and we no longer sell out all games in a season (this one has to be in season obviously) then we can say that apathy is starting to set in. I hope that day does not come, but I am certain that it won't come next year even if we keep our coach. There is still way too much excitement around this program from our fan base. Hell, we are having a terrible year and still sold out the JMU game.

[appst89]

If you don’t understand why the Wins/Losses occurred then yes. Like you, I understand what I see on the field during a game. The difference is that we don’t know what happens during the week. Basing a conclusion on 10% of the information, and I’m being generous with that %, is well, obtuse.

I guess we will never agree. I simply cannot comprehend a world where performance doesn't matter.

Serious question(s) based on your previous comment. If performance matters, and I’m not saying that it doesn’t; why is everyone that is demanding change because of two sub par seasons discounting the 10 win and two 9 win seasons?

I get the frustration, I do. I never said that I wasn’t frustrated too. But trying to look at the big picture of why it is currently what it is gets shouted down by those that just want their version of Utopia where everyone can be good as long as we are great.

I don’t know where this is going to end up. The BoT may decide to either support him or move on from him. But here is the concern that I have. Either decision is likely not going to be unanimous and that could cause some issues within the leadership of the school. I’m not saying it will, but it could.

I can only speak for myself, and I don't discount those seasons, but the overall trend is, and has been, downward for the last few years. I can't tell my bosses that we had record sales five years ago to account for three straight years of declining sales.

I think the big picture IS wins and losses.

There are risks in making any decision. My biggest concern is that he gets another year and the apathy that is growing now gets a firm foothold.

I respectfully disagree that apathy will take hold. Football is life for a lot of people. It has its own niche in today’s culture. The hype around the opening of other sports season pales in comparison to football.

I would argue that apathy is already growing.

It's only anecdotal, but I have spoken to a number of long time fans who no longer go and were surprised at how easy it was to stop going and to focus their time on something else. That number is only 10 or 15 people, but these are folks who had season tickets for 30+ years. Maybe there are people eagerly waiting to snap up those tickets and they won't even be missed, but something is wrong when that many people stop caring all at once.

[AppSt94]

I guess we will never agree. I simply cannot comprehend a world where performance doesn't matter.

Serious question(s) based on your previous comment. If performance matters, and I’m not saying that it doesn’t; why is everyone that is demanding change because of two sub par seasons discounting the 10 win and two 9 win seasons?

I get the frustration, I do. I never said that I wasn’t frustrated too. But trying to look at the big picture of why it is currently what it is gets shouted down by those that just want their version of Utopia where everyone can be good as long as we are great.

I don’t know where this is going to end up. The BoT may decide to either support him or move on from him. But here is the concern that I have. Either decision is likely not going to be unanimous and that could cause some issues within the leadership of the school. I’m not saying it will, but it could.

I can only speak for myself, and I don't discount those seasons, but the overall trend is, and has been, downward for the last few years. I can't tell my bosses that we had record sales five years ago to account for three straight years of declining sales.

I think the big picture IS wins and losses.

There are risks in making any decision. My biggest concern is that he gets another year and the apathy that is growing now gets a firm foothold.

I respectfully disagree that apathy will take hold. Football is life for a lot of people. It has its own niche in today’s culture. The hype around the opening of other sports season pales in comparison to football.

I would argue that apathy is already growing.

It's only anecdotal, but I have spoken to a number of long time fans who no longer go and were surprised at how easy it was to stop going and to focus their time on something else. That number is only 10 or 15 people, but these are folks who had season tickets for 30+ years. Maybe there are people eagerly waiting to snap up those tickets and they won't even be missed, but something is wrong when that many people stop caring all at once.

I have said this before and probably should have added above but I think that those that are choosing to leave are doing so for other reasons were likely looking for an excuse. Again, purely speculation but people sometimes need a small nudge to do what they have been wanting to do for some time.

[Saint3333]

It is less of a priority in my circles as well.

Anecdotal, I have eight season tickets, all were used once this year by the crew we go with.

Bought eight to CCU before the season, two went. Only two will be used by our crew this weekend as well. We have sold them or gave them to friends so demand is still there. But it's becoming an entertainment convenience vs. an event.

[Mjohn1988]

Ok guys you just need to understand something. Since 2020 we have become the only FBS football program that has had to or is currently dealing with the following issues, pre Covid, Covid, post Covid, NIL, the transfer portal, coaching changes, money issues, injured players, players quitting, climate change, inflation, stupid fans, crowded bathrooms, no cups and no ice and pretty much any other impediments to success you can think of. So keeping that in mind, sit down, shut up and be happy that we haven’t lost every game in the same fashion we lost to South Bama. When you look at all the things we have dealt with that none of our opponents have dealt with, this year has been a stunning success.

[AppSt94]

Ok guys you just need to understand something. Since 2020 we have become the only FBS football program that has had to or is currently dealing with the following issues, pre Covid, Covid, post Covid, NIL, the transfer portal, coaching changes, money issues, injured players, players quitting, climate change, inflation, stupid fans, crowded bathrooms, no cups and no ice and pretty much any other impediments to success you can think of. So keeping that in mind, sit down, shut up and be happy that we haven’t lost every game in the same fashion we lost to South Bama. When you look at all the things we have dealt with than none of our opponents have dealt with, this year have been a stunning success.

No one is happy with what has transpired on the field. Some of us just don’t feel that a change is needed.

[Mjohn1988]

Ok guys you just need to understand something. Since 2020 we have become the only FBS football program that has had to or is currently dealing with the following issues, pre Covid, Covid, post Covid, NIL, the transfer portal, coaching changes, money issues, injured players, players quitting, climate change, inflation, stupid fans, crowded bathrooms, no cups and no ice and pretty much any other impediments to success you can think of. So keeping that in mind, sit down, shut up and be happy that we haven’t lost every game in the same fashion we lost to South Bama. When you look at all the things we have dealt with than none of our opponents have dealt with, this year have been a stunning success.

No one is happy with what has transpired on the field. Some of us just don’t feel that a change is needed.

So we don’t need to change anything?

[AppSt94]

Ok guys you just need to understand something. Since 2020 we have become the only FBS football program that has had to or is currently dealing with the following issues, pre Covid, Covid, post Covid, NIL, the transfer portal, coaching changes, money issues, injured players, players quitting, climate change, inflation, stupid fans, crowded bathrooms, no cups and no ice and pretty much any other impediments to success you can think of. So keeping that in mind, sit down, shut up and be happy that we haven’t lost every game in the same fashion we lost to South Bama. When you look at all the things we have dealt with than none of our opponents have dealt with, this year have been a stunning success.

No one is happy with what has transpired on the field. Some of us just don’t feel that a change is needed.

So we don’t need to change anything?

Should have completed my sentence with at the HC position. I’m sure that adjustments are necessary and difficult decisions will be made. The question becomes is it enough for folks like yourself that want heads to roll.

[Bootsy]

Ok guys you just need to understand something. Since 2020 we have become the only FBS football program that has had to or is currently dealing with the following issues, pre Covid, Covid, post Covid, NIL, the transfer portal, coaching changes, money issues, injured players, players quitting, climate change, inflation, stupid fans, crowded bathrooms, no cups and no ice and pretty much any other impediments to success you can think of. So keeping that in mind, sit down, shut up and be happy that we haven’t lost every game in the same fashion we lost to South Bama. When you look at all the things we have dealt with than none of our opponents have dealt with, this year has been a stunning success.

In the effort needed to compile this exhaustive list, you forgot to mention Clemson.

[Mjohn1988]

Ok guys you just need to understand something. Since 2020 we have become the only FBS football program that has had to or is currently dealing with the following issues, pre Covid, Covid, post Covid, NIL, the transfer portal, coaching changes, money issues, injured players, players quitting, climate change, inflation, stupid fans, crowded bathrooms, no cups and no ice and pretty much any other impediments to success you can think of. So keeping that in mind, sit down, shut up and be happy that we haven’t lost every game in the same fashion we lost to South Bama. When you look at all the things we have dealt with than none of our opponents have dealt with, this year has been a stunning success.

In the effort needed to compile this exhaustive list, you forgot to mention Clemson.

I only wish I could forget Clemson!

[Stonewall]

I’m guessing sarcasm.

[boonetodd]

If people don't think a change is needed at the HC I'm not sure what team you are watching. It isn't this one.

[Mjohn1988]

I’m guessing sarcasm.

Just a touch

[Saint3333]

Ask yourself which variable haven't we changed the past couple of years that we should change this offseason?

[mike87]

Eric Church?