G5 Over the Last 9 Years

[Mjohn1988]

All reports indicate we are well behind our peers in terms of NIL money. That could make it difficult for us to remain near the top of the G5.

What reports? Please point us to those reports.

I would like to see as well. I have not seen anything official from TIGMA or the App State Athletics Department that says we are behind our peers. We might be losing players to the ACC or SEC but we don't have players leaving for NIL at G5 schools. It would be nice to see actual numbers.

We will never see this information but best I can tell we have really only lost one guy to G5 over NIL money, McCloud. Yes Nate left but that was more than money. Guy couldn’t do squat here the last couple of years and is having 100 yard games against SEC competition at Mizzu. Kind of tells you we have an O line issue.

McCloud went to Auburn and that is SEC as well. We have not lost a quality player to a peer school due to NIL yet. We all agree we have an OL issue. Go look at our HS recruiting on the OL and the results since 2020 are really bad. We have had 3 years since 2000 where we did not have a single OL HS recruit pan out.

Sorry I meant P4 on McCloud.

[Saint3333]

We all agree we have an OL issue. Go look at our HS recruiting on the OL and the results since 2020 are really bad. We have had 3 years since 2000 where we did not have a single OL HS recruit pan out.

This has been one of the most disturbing trends during Clark's tenure. Assessing and attracting talent in a position group he should be the most versed to address. You can walk through each individual we missed getting on the mountain, retaining on the mountain, or developing and there are reasonable stories, but the percentages over a five year period are troubling. Before someone points out the tragedy example I'm clearly setting that to the side on the 30+ story lines referenced.

[AppStFan1]

What reports? Please point us to those reports.

I would like to see as well. I have not seen anything official from TIGMA or the App State Athletics Department that says we are behind our peers. We might be losing players to the ACC or SEC but we don't have players leaving for NIL at G5 schools. It would be nice to see actual numbers.

We will never see this information but best I can tell we have really only lost one guy to G5 over NIL money, McCloud. Yes Nate left but that was more than money. Guy couldn’t do squat here the last couple of years and is having 100 yard games against SEC competition at Mizzu. Kind of tells you we have an O line issue.

McCloud went to Auburn and that is SEC as well. We have not lost a quality player to a peer school due to NIL yet. We all agree we have an OL issue. Go look at our HS recruiting on the OL and the results since 2020 are really bad. We have had 3 years since 2000 where we did not have a single OL HS recruit pan out.

Sorry I meant P4 on McCloud.

That is our point. We know we will lose players to P4 programs. That is fine because we are G5. The problem would be if we had G5 schools poaching us and they are not doing that. Until we get in the SEC or ACC, which is not happening, we can't prevent a SEC school from poaching us.

[AppStFan1]

We all agree we have an OL issue. Go look at our HS recruiting on the OL and the results since 2020 are really bad. We have had 3 years since 2000 where we did not have a single OL HS recruit pan out.

This has been one of the most disturbing trends during Clark's tenure. Assessing and attracting talent in a position group he should be the most versed to address. You can walk through each individual we missed getting on the mountain, retaining on the mountain, or developing and there are reasonable stories, but the percentages over a five year period are troubling. Before someone points out the tragedy example I'm clearly setting that to the side on the 30+ story lines referenced.

That is indeed my big problem. People need to break down our success rate with HS recruiting and even look at the portal. We are missing on over half of our portal pickups. We need to do a better job with HS and focus more on it. If we are bringing in more than 4-5 portal players a year then we are missing badly in recruiting. Would it not be cheaper to go after HS players since all the good OL in the portal are wanting to get paid?

[Mjohn1988]

We all agree we have an OL issue. Go look at our HS recruiting on the OL and the results since 2020 are really bad. We have had 3 years since 2000 where we did not have a single OL HS recruit pan out.

This has been one of the most disturbing trends during Clark's tenure. Assessing and attracting talent in a position group he should be the most versed to address. You can walk through each individual we missed getting on the mountain, retaining on the mountain, or developing and there are reasonable stories, but the percentages over a five year period are troubling. Before someone points out the tragedy example I'm clearly setting that to the side on the 30+ story lines referenced.

That is indeed my big problem. People need to break down our success rate with HS recruiting and even look at the portal. We are missing on over half of our portal pickups. We need to do a better job with HS and focus more on it. If we are bringing in more than 4-5 portal players a year then we are missing badly in recruiting. Would it not be cheaper to go after HS players since all the good OL in the portal are wanting to get paid?

I agree but are we really sure that at the G5 level they are getting paid? I think that once NIL became what it is most of us just assumed that all these guys will get paid. I’m just not convinced that that is happening.

[AppStFan1]

We all agree we have an OL issue. Go look at our HS recruiting on the OL and the results since 2020 are really bad. We have had 3 years since 2000 where we did not have a single OL HS recruit pan out.

This has been one of the most disturbing trends during Clark's tenure. Assessing and attracting talent in a position group he should be the most versed to address. You can walk through each individual we missed getting on the mountain, retaining on the mountain, or developing and there are reasonable stories, but the percentages over a five year period are troubling. Before someone points out the tragedy example I'm clearly setting that to the side on the 30+ story lines referenced.

That is indeed my big problem. People need to break down our success rate with HS recruiting and even look at the portal. We are missing on over half of our portal pickups. We need to do a better job with HS and focus more on it. If we are bringing in more than 4-5 portal players a year then we are missing badly in recruiting. Would it not be cheaper to go after HS players since all the good OL in the portal are wanting to get paid?

I agree but are we really sure that at the G5 level they are getting paid? I think that once NIL became what it is most of us just assumed that all these guys will get paid. I’m just not convinced that that is happening.

The players our staff has initially wanted all are looking to get paid so they go P4. I doubt we paid any of the guys we brought in but if you look at their prior resumes to coming to App I don't think they had any leverage to ask.

[Mjohn1988]

We all agree we have an OL issue. Go look at our HS recruiting on the OL and the results since 2020 are really bad. We have had 3 years since 2000 where we did not have a single OL HS recruit pan out.

This has been one of the most disturbing trends during Clark's tenure. Assessing and attracting talent in a position group he should be the most versed to address. You can walk through each individual we missed getting on the mountain, retaining on the mountain, or developing and there are reasonable stories, but the percentages over a five year period are troubling. Before someone points out the tragedy example I'm clearly setting that to the side on the 30+ story lines referenced.

That is indeed my big problem. People need to break down our success rate with HS recruiting and even look at the portal. We are missing on over half of our portal pickups. We need to do a better job with HS and focus more on it. If we are bringing in more than 4-5 portal players a year then we are missing badly in recruiting. Would it not be cheaper to go after HS players since all the good OL in the portal are wanting to get paid?

I agree but are we really sure that at the G5 level they are getting paid? I think that once NIL became what it is most of us just assumed that all these guys will get paid. I’m just not convinced that that is happening.

The players our staff has initially wanted all are looking to get paid so they go P4. I doubt we paid any of the guys we brought in but if you look at their prior resumes to coming to App I don't think they had any leverage to ask.

But me and you agree on this, everyone at the G5 level is dealing with the same issue. Guys with boarder line P4 talent who wanted to play could in the past be talked into going to a G5 program. Now those same guys may go P4 and ride the pine to get some cash. But that’s not just an App State issue. We should still be able to compete in the G5. I have very little doubt that NIL will hurt the overall talent level in the G5.

[AppStFan1]

This has been one of the most disturbing trends during Clark's tenure. Assessing and attracting talent in a position group he should be the most versed to address. You can walk through each individual we missed getting on the mountain, retaining on the mountain, or developing and there are reasonable stories, but the percentages over a five year period are troubling. Before someone points out the tragedy example I'm clearly setting that to the side on the 30+ story lines referenced.

That is indeed my big problem. People need to break down our success rate with HS recruiting and even look at the portal. We are missing on over half of our portal pickups. We need to do a better job with HS and focus more on it. If we are bringing in more than 4-5 portal players a year then we are missing badly in recruiting. Would it not be cheaper to go after HS players since all the good OL in the portal are wanting to get paid?

I agree but are we really sure that at the G5 level they are getting paid? I think that once NIL became what it is most of us just assumed that all these guys will get paid. I’m just not convinced that that is happening.

The players our staff has initially wanted all are looking to get paid so they go P4. I doubt we paid any of the guys we brought in but if you look at their prior resumes to coming to App I don't think they had any leverage to ask.

But me and you agree on this, everyone at the G5 level is dealing with the same issue. Guys with boarder line P4 talent who wanted to play could in the past be talked into going to a G5 program. Now those same guys may go P4 and ride the pine to get some cash. But that’s not just an App State issue. We should still be able to compete in the G5. I have very little doubt that NIL will hurt the overall talent level in the G5.

Exactly. I don't care if we lose to a P4 or lose players to them but G5 is what matters. We should be able to be among our peers.

[appdaze]

What deals are public are often reported here. You can
Filter by sport, conference, team, and in some by position. You can see a lot of deals at multiple levels of schools.


https://www.on3.com/nil/rankings/

[hapapp]

While there are examples of that, I don't think it's become that prevalent. I think more of the movement has been P5 to P5 when it comes to the big NIL deals.

Regardless, we will still be competing among our peer G5 institutions and some will be more successful than others. Over the last 9 years, we're at the top of the G5!

All reports indicate we are well behind our peers in terms of NIL money. That could make it difficult for us to remain near the top of the G5.

What reports? Please point us to those reports.

I would like to see as well. I have not seen anything official from TIGMA or the App State Athletics Department that says we are behind our peers. We might be losing players to the ACC or SEC but we don't have players leaving for NIL at G5 schools. It would be nice to see actual numbers.

We will never see this information but best I can tell we have really only lost one guy to G5 over NIL money, McCloud. Yes Nate left but that was more than money. Guy couldn’t do squat here the last couple of years and is having 100 yard games against SEC competition at Mizzu. Kind of tells you we have an O line issue.

Nate average 75 yds/game in 2023 with App and he is averaging 72 yds/game with Missouri this season. He did have a 199 yard game against Vandy and had 121 versus BC. He only has 62 yards total in his last two games. His numbers fell off here as much to do with injury as anything else.

[spacemonkey]

All reports indicate we are well behind our peers in terms of NIL money. That could make it difficult for us to remain near the top of the G5.

What reports? Please point us to those reports.

I would like to see as well. I have not seen anything official from TIGMA or the App State Athletics Department that says we are behind our peers. We might be losing players to the ACC or SEC but we don't have players leaving for NIL at G5 schools. It would be nice to see actual numbers.

We will never see this information but best I can tell we have really only lost one guy to G5 over NIL money, McCloud. Yes Nate left but that was more than money. Guy couldn’t do squat here the last couple of years and is having 100 yard games against SEC competition at Mizzu. Kind of tells you we have an O line issue.

McCloud went to Auburn and that is SEC as well. We have not lost a quality player to a peer school due to NIL yet. We all agree we have an OL issue. Go look at our HS recruiting on the OL and the results since 2020 are really bad. We have had 3 years since 2000 where we did not have a single OL HS recruit pan out.

This is what really concerns me about the coach....I think it is play design more than OL. It is too predictable with no misdirection. Of course it would be nice to line up an manhandle the other side but when that doesn't work we seem to have no "Plan b".

[AppStFan1]

What reports? Please point us to those reports.

I would like to see as well. I have not seen anything official from TIGMA or the App State Athletics Department that says we are behind our peers. We might be losing players to the ACC or SEC but we don't have players leaving for NIL at G5 schools. It would be nice to see actual numbers.

We will never see this information but best I can tell we have really only lost one guy to G5 over NIL money, McCloud. Yes Nate left but that was more than money. Guy couldn’t do squat here the last couple of years and is having 100 yard games against SEC competition at Mizzu. Kind of tells you we have an O line issue.

McCloud went to Auburn and that is SEC as well. We have not lost a quality player to a peer school due to NIL yet. We all agree we have an OL issue. Go look at our HS recruiting on the OL and the results since 2020 are really bad. We have had 3 years since 2000 where we did not have a single OL HS recruit pan out.

This is what really concerns me about the coach....I think it is play design more than OL. It is too predictable with no misdirection. Of course it would be nice to line up an manhandle the other side but when that doesn't work we seem to have no "Plan b".

The offense has not been bad at all. I think Ponce does a decent job but I do wonder why we don't do more misdirection.

[Bootsy]

I’ve said this for years, and I still believe it: App’s fan base has been spoiled by this sustained success.

What we’re dealing with this season is what most other college football fans expect from their teams. App hasn’t experienced many losing seasons, so our fans don’t know how to deal with it.

We know how to deal with it, some just don't like the answer of how to solve it.

We know how to deal with it? Really? You and I must read different App State athletics message boards.

[Stonewall]

We are also , perhaps, dealing with the let down of false expectations based on hype generated by the athletic department.

[AppStFan1]

We are also , perhaps, dealing with the let down of false expectations based on hype generated by the athletic department.

I think those on the inside truly believed it. Serious question I have and no clue on answer. Do we have the talent and we have vastly underachieved or did they truly think the team is good and they just missed badly on recruiting?

[t4pizza]

My point prior to the season was that we would be as successful as our OL allowed us to be. I was optimistic in my hopes that the OL would play well and our defense would be better. I was clearly incorrect on both issues. Our defense is as soft as I have ever seen and our OL has been equally unimpressive. If you can't win the trenches, you can't win. I think it is a talent issue. That being said, talent acquisition, development and retention all fall on the coaches shoulders.

[Pikapp79]

My point prior to the season was that we would be as successful as our OL allowed us to be. I was optimistic in my hopes that the OL would play well and our defense would be better. I was clearly incorrect on both issues. Our defense is as soft as I have ever seen and our OL has been equally unimpressive. If you can't win the trenches, you can't win. I think it is a talent issue. That being said, talent acquisition, development and retention all fall on the coaches shoulders.

Starts and ends there. We intimidate no one across our two lines.