General Stonewall to the rescue...Stonewall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 7:25 pmI believe they were independent , a few years out of the ACC.WataugaMan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 3:11 pmActually Coach Brakefield beat South Carolina in 1975, not sure what conference everyone was in back then.
Belechek has coached 10 seasons without Brady and had 2 winning seasons. He isn't crap without Brady.
The good news is when we get to 0 wins the trendline will start to be less negative after that!appdaze wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 8:43 pmBelechek has coached 10 seasons without Brady and had 2 winning seasons. He isn't crap without Brady.
Dabo has been the main HC at Clemson since 09. (08 he stepped in as interim halfway through) In his first 4 seasons he won 2 bowl games with one bad season and a 36-18 record. Then he went on an 11 season streak with only two seasons with 2 conference losses, the other 9 were 1 or 0. He also grabbed two chips. This year they are 4-3 (2-3) they will probably go 3-2 to finish 7-5 (6-5) and get a bowl.
Mac Brown is overrated as hell. Mediocre year at App, Garbage at Tulane, 10 seasons at UNC only 5 were 8-4 or better and never won the conference. Goes to Texas where money and recruits were growing on trees and doesn't get more than 10 wins until his 4th year. He has a chip because what Vince Young did that year is like nothing I've ever seen before or since. After Mac crapped the bed and put Texas back so badly they still haven't recovered to national prominence. Then UNC got desperate enough to grab him back and he hasn't hit 10 wins as of yet in his second stint. Mac is not a bad coach, but very overrated.
Jerry Moore was mediocre at N Tx St. Was a hot mess at Texas Tech. He had to essentially drop down to a lower level to find success and never went back up. In his first 16 seasons he only won the conference 3 times. He got lucky in 2005 that he went along with the new wave of offense being the spread and it caught the socon off guard and we had the right players to run it that first year. Chip. Then Trey Elder has shoulder surgery in June which probably impacted his ability to throw and gets him yanked after 2 games. We all know what Armanti did after that and the recruiting frenzy it caused.
Its not a great comparison with these coaches to our current position. 3/4 of these guys got lucky as hell to have recruited/drafted generational players that forever changed their coaching legacies. Dabo is a good coach. I don't particularly like him, but he is good.
For our situation the trend is that we have added more losses each season that Clark has been the head coach. That is actually a trend. We are currently heading for a 4th season of increasing losses. That is a trend. SC has to hit the recruiting trail and find his Armanti, Brady, Watson, Young to get his own generational player, or he's probably not going to make the cut. This leads me to the true point for all these guys. It takes a hell of a lot of luck to get the right players at the right time with the right chemistry etc to win it all or run the train on the regular season and get a big bowl. There are a ton of great X's and O's coaches that get fired because they don't find that one player or that core of players that perfectly run their system. It took Jerry 24 seasons to finally find that core with the right schemes to take it to the next level. Some coaches never find that.
Good luck SC, truly, you're gonna need it.
Let's work on our spell check boys....appdaze wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 8:43 pmBelechek has coached 10 seasons without Brady and had 2 winning seasons. He isn't crap without Brady.
Dabo has been the main HC at Clemson since 09. (08 he stepped in as interim halfway through) In his first 4 seasons he won 2 bowl games with one bad season and a 36-18 record. Then he went on an 11 season streak with only two seasons with 2 conference losses, the other 9 were 1 or 0. He also grabbed two chips. This year they are 4-3 (2-3) they will probably go 3-2 to finish 7-5 (6-5) and get a bowl.
Mac Brown is overrated as hell. Mediocre year at App, Garbage at Tulane, 10 seasons at UNC only 5 were 8-4 or better and never won the conference. Goes to Texas where money and recruits were growing on trees and doesn't get more than 10 wins until his 4th year. He has a chip because what Vince Young did that year is like nothing I've ever seen before or since. After Mac crapped the bed and put Texas back so badly they still haven't recovered to national prominence. Then UNC got desperate enough to grab him back and he hasn't hit 10 wins as of yet in his second stint. Mac is not a bad coach, but very overrated.
Jerry Moore was mediocre at N Tx St. Was a hot mess at Texas Tech. He had to essentially drop down to a lower level to find success and never went back up. In his first 16 seasons he only won the conference 3 times. He got lucky in 2005 that he went along with the new wave of offense being the spread and it caught the socon off guard and we had the right players to run it that first year. Chip. Then Trey Elder has shoulder surgery in June which probably impacted his ability to throw and gets him yanked after 2 games. We all know what Armanti did after that and the recruiting frenzy it caused.
Its not a great comparison with these coaches to our current position. 3/4 of these guys got lucky as hell to have recruited/drafted generational players that forever changed their coaching legacies. Dabo is a good coach. I don't particularly like him, but he is good.
For our situation the trend is that we have added more losses each season that Clark has been the head coach. That is actually a trend. We are currently heading for a 4th season of increasing losses. That is a trend. SC has to hit the recruiting trail and find his Armanti, Brady, Watson, Young to get his own generational player, or he's probably not going to make the cut. This leads me to the true point for all these guys. It takes a hell of a lot of luck to get the right players at the right time with the right chemistry etc to win it all or run the train on the regular season and get a big bowl. There are a ton of great X's and O's coaches that get fired because they don't find that one player or that core of players that perfectly run their system. It took Jerry 24 seasons to finally find that core with the right schemes to take it to the next level. Some coaches never find that.
Good luck SC, truly, you're gonna need it.
Did Kirby Smart die?DenverOfTheEast wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 8:13 amLet's work on our spell check boys....appdaze wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 8:43 pmBelechek has coached 10 seasons without Brady and had 2 winning seasons. He isn't crap without Brady.
Dabo has been the main HC at Clemson since 09. (08 he stepped in as interim halfway through) In his first 4 seasons he won 2 bowl games with one bad season and a 36-18 record. Then he went on an 11 season streak with only two seasons with 2 conference losses, the other 9 were 1 or 0. He also grabbed two chips. This year they are 4-3 (2-3) they will probably go 3-2 to finish 7-5 (6-5) and get a bowl.
Mac Brown is overrated as hell. Mediocre year at App, Garbage at Tulane, 10 seasons at UNC only 5 were 8-4 or better and never won the conference. Goes to Texas where money and recruits were growing on trees and doesn't get more than 10 wins until his 4th year. He has a chip because what Vince Young did that year is like nothing I've ever seen before or since. After Mac crapped the bed and put Texas back so badly they still haven't recovered to national prominence. Then UNC got desperate enough to grab him back and he hasn't hit 10 wins as of yet in his second stint. Mac is not a bad coach, but very overrated.
Jerry Moore was mediocre at N Tx St. Was a hot mess at Texas Tech. He had to essentially drop down to a lower level to find success and never went back up. In his first 16 seasons he only won the conference 3 times. He got lucky in 2005 that he went along with the new wave of offense being the spread and it caught the socon off guard and we had the right players to run it that first year. Chip. Then Trey Elder has shoulder surgery in June which probably impacted his ability to throw and gets him yanked after 2 games. We all know what Armanti did after that and the recruiting frenzy it caused.
Its not a great comparison with these coaches to our current position. 3/4 of these guys got lucky as hell to have recruited/drafted generational players that forever changed their coaching legacies. Dabo is a good coach. I don't particularly like him, but he is good.
For our situation the trend is that we have added more losses each season that Clark has been the head coach. That is actually a trend. We are currently heading for a 4th season of increasing losses. That is a trend. SC has to hit the recruiting trail and find his Armanti, Brady, Watson, Young to get his own generational player, or he's probably not going to make the cut. This leads me to the true point for all these guys. It takes a hell of a lot of luck to get the right players at the right time with the right chemistry etc to win it all or run the train on the regular season and get a big bowl. There are a ton of great X's and O's coaches that get fired because they don't find that one player or that core of players that perfectly run their system. It took Jerry 24 seasons to finally find that core with the right schemes to take it to the next level. Some coaches never find that.
Good luck SC, truly, you're gonna need it.
Mack Brown is the best recruiter in college football not named Nick Saban,
Dabo is a big time lead recruiter, small time football mind --
They both are big time CEO's of World Class football programs, now neither could out coach me in my flag football league, but they know how to run a program and butter up those donors and HS coaches.
Belicheck is a football mind, but with no Tom Brady he can't out perform Mike Tomlin or John Harbaugh.
I think #TeamClark reminds me of Mike Tomlin a little bit. Just a good tough dude the players like and respect.
Coach Moore landed the ASU job at the right time, moved it forward and it became more popular over the decade of the 1990's.. had some good luck happen in the 2000's for him. ASU football got better in the 2000's when many teams started to jump up to FBS and leave 1-AA (example Marshall).
Who's Kirby Smart???? ---- 3, 2, 1.....311neers wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 9:32 amDid Kirby Smart die?DenverOfTheEast wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 8:13 amLet's work on our spell check boys....appdaze wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 8:43 pmBelechek has coached 10 seasons without Brady and had 2 winning seasons. He isn't crap without Brady.
Dabo has been the main HC at Clemson since 09. (08 he stepped in as interim halfway through) In his first 4 seasons he won 2 bowl games with one bad season and a 36-18 record. Then he went on an 11 season streak with only two seasons with 2 conference losses, the other 9 were 1 or 0. He also grabbed two chips. This year they are 4-3 (2-3) they will probably go 3-2 to finish 7-5 (6-5) and get a bowl.
Mac Brown is overrated as hell. Mediocre year at App, Garbage at Tulane, 10 seasons at UNC only 5 were 8-4 or better and never won the conference. Goes to Texas where money and recruits were growing on trees and doesn't get more than 10 wins until his 4th year. He has a chip because what Vince Young did that year is like nothing I've ever seen before or since. After Mac crapped the bed and put Texas back so badly they still haven't recovered to national prominence. Then UNC got desperate enough to grab him back and he hasn't hit 10 wins as of yet in his second stint. Mac is not a bad coach, but very overrated.
Jerry Moore was mediocre at N Tx St. Was a hot mess at Texas Tech. He had to essentially drop down to a lower level to find success and never went back up. In his first 16 seasons he only won the conference 3 times. He got lucky in 2005 that he went along with the new wave of offense being the spread and it caught the socon off guard and we had the right players to run it that first year. Chip. Then Trey Elder has shoulder surgery in June which probably impacted his ability to throw and gets him yanked after 2 games. We all know what Armanti did after that and the recruiting frenzy it caused.
Its not a great comparison with these coaches to our current position. 3/4 of these guys got lucky as hell to have recruited/drafted generational players that forever changed their coaching legacies. Dabo is a good coach. I don't particularly like him, but he is good.
For our situation the trend is that we have added more losses each season that Clark has been the head coach. That is actually a trend. We are currently heading for a 4th season of increasing losses. That is a trend. SC has to hit the recruiting trail and find his Armanti, Brady, Watson, Young to get his own generational player, or he's probably not going to make the cut. This leads me to the true point for all these guys. It takes a hell of a lot of luck to get the right players at the right time with the right chemistry etc to win it all or run the train on the regular season and get a big bowl. There are a ton of great X's and O's coaches that get fired because they don't find that one player or that core of players that perfectly run their system. It took Jerry 24 seasons to finally find that core with the right schemes to take it to the next level. Some coaches never find that.
Good luck SC, truly, you're gonna need it.
Mack Brown is the best recruiter in college football not named Nick Saban,
Dabo is a big time lead recruiter, small time football mind --
They both are big time CEO's of World Class football programs, now neither could out coach me in my flag football league, but they know how to run a program and butter up those donors and HS coaches.
Belicheck is a football mind, but with no Tom Brady he can't out perform Mike Tomlin or John Harbaugh.
I think #TeamClark reminds me of Mike Tomlin a little bit. Just a good tough dude the players like and respect.
Coach Moore landed the ASU job at the right time, moved it forward and it became more popular over the decade of the 1990's.. had some good luck happen in the 2000's for him. ASU football got better in the 2000's when many teams started to jump up to FBS and leave 1-AA (example Marshall).
I like the Tomlin comparison, but he's a winner or very close to being one. Clark has yet to prove that outside of his 60% win clip. It's way harder to win in the NFL.
What is your point here? Do you agree that Clark was a lazy hire?DenverOfTheEast wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 5:07 pmwell what ar you going to do about it, it ain't his last lazy hire I can promise you that.appgrad95&97 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:50 pmMy point remains the same, we are where we are because Gillin made a lazy hire. COVID hit the world. NIL and the portal hit every school in the country. Aliens in Deep Gap, whatever. But Doug Gillin mad a lazy hire.DenverOfTheEast wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:44 pm2019 was before COVID, before the Portal, before the 'era' SBC east teams, and definitely before aliens landing in Deep Gap on the parkway.appgrad95&97 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:22 pmHonestly, what did y'all think was going to happen? In December of 2019 I said that Clark was a lazy hire. He's a good man, an App man, but it was a lazy hire. I was on an island. It should never have taken this long for you to see it. At this point it is what it is. But Gillin made a lazy hire.
Gillin been turned down in coaching hires more than you at senior prom!
Did you really just call UNC's football program world class? That is laughable. What universe are you living in?DenverOfTheEast wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 8:13 amLet's work on our spell check boys....appdaze wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 8:43 pmBelechek has coached 10 seasons without Brady and had 2 winning seasons. He isn't crap without Brady.
Dabo has been the main HC at Clemson since 09. (08 he stepped in as interim halfway through) In his first 4 seasons he won 2 bowl games with one bad season and a 36-18 record. Then he went on an 11 season streak with only two seasons with 2 conference losses, the other 9 were 1 or 0. He also grabbed two chips. This year they are 4-3 (2-3) they will probably go 3-2 to finish 7-5 (6-5) and get a bowl.
Mac Brown is overrated as hell. Mediocre year at App, Garbage at Tulane, 10 seasons at UNC only 5 were 8-4 or better and never won the conference. Goes to Texas where money and recruits were growing on trees and doesn't get more than 10 wins until his 4th year. He has a chip because what Vince Young did that year is like nothing I've ever seen before or since. After Mac crapped the bed and put Texas back so badly they still haven't recovered to national prominence. Then UNC got desperate enough to grab him back and he hasn't hit 10 wins as of yet in his second stint. Mac is not a bad coach, but very overrated.
Jerry Moore was mediocre at N Tx St. Was a hot mess at Texas Tech. He had to essentially drop down to a lower level to find success and never went back up. In his first 16 seasons he only won the conference 3 times. He got lucky in 2005 that he went along with the new wave of offense being the spread and it caught the socon off guard and we had the right players to run it that first year. Chip. Then Trey Elder has shoulder surgery in June which probably impacted his ability to throw and gets him yanked after 2 games. We all know what Armanti did after that and the recruiting frenzy it caused.
Its not a great comparison with these coaches to our current position. 3/4 of these guys got lucky as hell to have recruited/drafted generational players that forever changed their coaching legacies. Dabo is a good coach. I don't particularly like him, but he is good.
For our situation the trend is that we have added more losses each season that Clark has been the head coach. That is actually a trend. We are currently heading for a 4th season of increasing losses. That is a trend. SC has to hit the recruiting trail and find his Armanti, Brady, Watson, Young to get his own generational player, or he's probably not going to make the cut. This leads me to the true point for all these guys. It takes a hell of a lot of luck to get the right players at the right time with the right chemistry etc to win it all or run the train on the regular season and get a big bowl. There are a ton of great X's and O's coaches that get fired because they don't find that one player or that core of players that perfectly run their system. It took Jerry 24 seasons to finally find that core with the right schemes to take it to the next level. Some coaches never find that.
Good luck SC, truly, you're gonna need it.
Mack Brown is the best recruiter in college football not named Nick Saban,
Dabo is a big time lead recruiter, small time football mind --
They both are big time CEO's of World Class football programs, now neither could out coach me in my flag football league, but they know how to run a program and butter up those donors and HS coaches.
Belicheck is a football mind, but with no Tom Brady he can't out perform Mike Tomlin or John Harbaugh.
I think #TeamClark reminds me of Mike Tomlin a little bit. Just a good tough dude the players like and respect.
Coach Moore landed the ASU job at the right time, moved it forward and it became more popular over the decade of the 1990's.. had some good luck happen in the 2000's for him. ASU football got better in the 2000's when many teams started to jump up to FBS and leave 1-AA (example Marshall).
No I have disagreed with you on this multiple times -- I don't think he liked any of the candidates that were out there when Drink left.... I believe Clark was correct choice, pre portal, pre Covid, pre NIL, Jerry Moore's blessing, called plays and won the Bowl game as interim coach. It was at the time a good call.appgrad95&97 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:21 amWhat is your point here? Do you agree that Clark was a lazy hire?DenverOfTheEast wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 5:07 pmwell what ar you going to do about it, it ain't his last lazy hire I can promise you that.appgrad95&97 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:50 pmMy point remains the same, we are where we are because Gillin made a lazy hire. COVID hit the world. NIL and the portal hit every school in the country. Aliens in Deep Gap, whatever. But Doug Gillin mad a lazy hire.DenverOfTheEast wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:44 pm2019 was before COVID, before the Portal, before the 'era' SBC east teams, and definitely before aliens landing in Deep Gap on the parkway.appgrad95&97 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:22 pmHonestly, what did y'all think was going to happen? In December of 2019 I said that Clark was a lazy hire. He's a good man, an App man, but it was a lazy hire. I was on an island. It should never have taken this long for you to see it. At this point it is what it is. But Gillin made a lazy hire.
Gillin been turned down in coaching hires more than you at senior prom!
Quit drinking lake water dude, my problem has always been with Gillin. I've called the Clark hire lazy. I've said the extension made zero sense. I've consistently said I didn't think he'd be here at this point. I've never one time been in the "in DG I trust" crowd.DenverOfTheEast wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:52 amNo I have disagreed with you on this multiple times -- I don't think he liked any of the candidates that were out there when Drink left.... I believe Clark was correct choice, pre portal, pre Covid, pre NIL, Jerry Moore's blessing, called plays and won the Bowl game as interim coach. It was at the time a good call.appgrad95&97 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:21 amWhat is your point here? Do you agree that Clark was a lazy hire?DenverOfTheEast wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 5:07 pmwell what ar you going to do about it, it ain't his last lazy hire I can promise you that.appgrad95&97 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:50 pmMy point remains the same, we are where we are because Gillin made a lazy hire. COVID hit the world. NIL and the portal hit every school in the country. Aliens in Deep Gap, whatever. But Doug Gillin mad a lazy hire.DenverOfTheEast wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:44 pm
2019 was before COVID, before the Portal, before the 'era' SBC east teams, and definitely before aliens landing in Deep Gap on the parkway.
Gillin been turned down in coaching hires more than you at senior prom!
But not saying Gillin hasn't made lazy hires in other sports, that's what happens when you give him a unearned at the time fat contract in Dec/Janu 2019/2020.
Im use this to name our new seltzer drink 'lake water'appgrad95&97 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 12:06 pmQuit drinking lake water dude, my problem has always been with Gillin. I've called the Clark hire lazy. I've said the extension made zero sense. I've consistently said I didn't think he'd be here at this point. I've never one time been in the "in DG I trust" crowd.DenverOfTheEast wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:52 amNo I have disagreed with you on this multiple times -- I don't think he liked any of the candidates that were out there when Drink left.... I believe Clark was correct choice, pre portal, pre Covid, pre NIL, Jerry Moore's blessing, called plays and won the Bowl game as interim coach. It was at the time a good call.appgrad95&97 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:21 amWhat is your point here? Do you agree that Clark was a lazy hire?DenverOfTheEast wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 5:07 pmwell what ar you going to do about it, it ain't his last lazy hire I can promise you that.appgrad95&97 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:50 pm
My point remains the same, we are where we are because Gillin made a lazy hire. COVID hit the world. NIL and the portal hit every school in the country. Aliens in Deep Gap, whatever. But Doug Gillin mad a lazy hire.
But not saying Gillin hasn't made lazy hires in other sports, that's what happens when you give him a unearned at the time fat contract in Dec/Janu 2019/2020.
I was under the same impression as you about the extension, at first, thinking that it was way too early but I was told that it was simply to get Clark to agree to lower the buyout so we could move on after the 2023 season if we needed to. When I heard it was financially motivated that part made sense. If that is not true though then I would 100% agree the extension was way too early.appgrad95&97 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 12:06 pmQuit drinking lake water dude, my problem has always been with Gillin. I've called the Clark hire lazy. I've said the extension made zero sense. I've consistently said I didn't think he'd be here at this point. I've never one time been in the "in DG I trust" crowd.DenverOfTheEast wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:52 amNo I have disagreed with you on this multiple times -- I don't think he liked any of the candidates that were out there when Drink left.... I believe Clark was correct choice, pre portal, pre Covid, pre NIL, Jerry Moore's blessing, called plays and won the Bowl game as interim coach. It was at the time a good call.appgrad95&97 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:21 amWhat is your point here? Do you agree that Clark was a lazy hire?DenverOfTheEast wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 5:07 pmwell what ar you going to do about it, it ain't his last lazy hire I can promise you that.appgrad95&97 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:50 pm
My point remains the same, we are where we are because Gillin made a lazy hire. COVID hit the world. NIL and the portal hit every school in the country. Aliens in Deep Gap, whatever. But Doug Gillin mad a lazy hire.
But not saying Gillin hasn't made lazy hires in other sports, that's what happens when you give him a unearned at the time fat contract in Dec/Janu 2019/2020.
#1 mistake..... men's soccer. Yeah I know, I can't let it go.PhillyApp1 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 2:38 pmI think DG does the best with what limited financial resources he has..... he is a numbers guy trying to also play a culture strategy.... He has had a LOT of tough decisions and he would probably admit his mistakes.... if he had a 50-75 million dollar budget I think he would have better results..... money talks, we would all be better at our jobs if we had more staff and budget
Nor should you. That is just another thing he did to show he was able to get a better job.ASUTodd wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 2:41 pm#1 mistake..... men's soccer. Yeah I know, I can't let it go.PhillyApp1 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 2:38 pmI think DG does the best with what limited financial resources he has..... he is a numbers guy trying to also play a culture strategy.... He has had a LOT of tough decisions and he would probably admit his mistakes.... if he had a 50-75 million dollar budget I think he would have better results..... money talks, we would all be better at our jobs if we had more staff and budget
I wouldn't....I would sleep more!!!PhillyApp1 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 2:38 pmI think DG does the best with what limited financial resources he has..... he is a numbers guy trying to also play a culture strategy.... He has had a LOT of tough decisions and he would probably admit his mistakes.... if he had a 50-75 million dollar budget I think he would have better results..... money talks, we would all be better at our jobs if we had more staff and budget