Wyoming Discussion

[BallantyneApp]

I went back and watched the play where JA threw the int. Noel was covered, the screen pass wasn't available. Instead of slinging it in the stands JA threw it up for grabs. TERRIBLE mistake that should be known by every QB even at the high school level. Sorry but I'm not sold that JA is QB1 and I think Burger should have a shot at winning the starting job when he's healthy or at least get some playing time to work his way back.

I've watched it a few times. Honestly I don't know if JA even had time to find any other receiver to throw it in their general direction so we didn't take a IG penalty which would have taken us out of range. NN made a chip block and then turned around but JA already had 2 guys in his face. Plus the other 2 WR I saw were in the middle of the field presumably to block, not at the sidelines.

If JA had thrown it to the side it would have been IG.

Ultimately, its still on the coaches as we should have had at least 1 TO at that point.

[hapapp]

I went back and watched the play where JA threw the int. Noel was covered, the screen pass wasn't available. Instead of slinging it in the stands JA threw it up for grabs. TERRIBLE mistake that should be known by every QB even at the high school level. Sorry but I'm not sold that JA is QB1 and I think Burger should have a shot at winning the starting job when he's healthy or at least get some playing time to work his way back.

I don't believe he could just throw in the stands if he was still inside the tackle box. I suppose he could have thrown it at the feet of Noel.

[Appmountaineers19]

I went back and watched the play where JA threw the int. Noel was covered, the screen pass wasn't available. Instead of slinging it in the stands JA threw it up for grabs. TERRIBLE mistake that should be known by every QB even at the high school level. Sorry but I'm not sold that JA is QB1 and I think Burger should have a shot at winning the starting job when he's healthy or at least get some playing time to work his way back.

I don't believe he could just throw in the stands if he was still inside the tackle box. I suppose he could have thrown it at the feet of Noel.

It would have been IG and a 10 yard loss. Probably couldn't take a sack in that situation as well.

[Saint3333]

I went back and watched the play where JA threw the int. Noel was covered, the screen pass wasn't available. Instead of slinging it in the stands JA threw it up for grabs. TERRIBLE mistake that should be known by every QB even at the high school level. Sorry but I'm not sold that JA is QB1 and I think Burger should have a shot at winning the starting job when he's healthy or at least get some playing time to work his way back.

I don't believe he could just throw in the stands if he was still inside the tackle box. I suppose he could have thrown it at the feet of Noel.

It would have been IG and a 10 yard loss. Probably couldn't take a sack in that situation as well.

Whenever there's a play like that, ask yourself what would Taylor Lamb have done. He didn't have the arm strength of our last three QBs, but he knew in-game situations better than anyone.

[appstatealum]

Losing to a team that we physically dominated all night long is the definition of being out coached. Clark was outcoached. I said last week that I liked some of what I was seeing from the staff, but I was cautiously optimistic. Last night showed me more of the same from the last few seasons that made me doubt them. Again, I love Clark as a man, but App State is failing under is leadership. We have to start assuming that he will be too prideful to step aside and prepare ourselves for the tough decision to fire one of our own.

The fact that the other coach..."out coached us". He won with a blocked field goal return. I doubt that was the other coaches plan.

He kept the game close, knew our tendencies in situations and stacked the box/rushed when needed. His team was physically out played and over matched and he found a way to position them for a freak play, like said blocked fg, to win the game. I'm sorry, Clark was out coached. I'm not going to make personal attacks or talk about knowing insider calls, but I've coached and know football/basketball/hockey and I know the macros of how to manage a game to increase your probability of winning. Our team failed at that, which all teams do, but in our case it's too often and usually similar reasons.

[WVAPPeer]

Evidently some don't understand the rules - as stated above he couldn't throw it to the sidelines as no receivers were there - he absolutely couldn't take a sack (game over) - to me, he made the only play he could have. If you look again at the replay you will see that if his pass had been a foot higher/yard longer it had a good probably of being completed. The Wyoming DB had to leap with outstretched arm to catch it and only a couple of yards behind him is our TE, who could have gone after the ball - Give credit to the Wyoming DC who called the all out blitz, it worked.

Clark was outcoached???? - when his game plan completely dominated the opponent on both sides of the ball - beating them at their own game - REALLY??? - Wyoming won the game on a play which had never happened before in the HISTORY of Appalachian State Football - that is NOT being out-coached...

[appstatealum]

I went back and watched the play where JA threw the int. Noel was covered, the screen pass wasn't available. Instead of slinging it in the stands JA threw it up for grabs. TERRIBLE mistake that should be known by every QB even at the high school level. Sorry but I'm not sold that JA is QB1 and I think Burger should have a shot at winning the starting job when he's healthy or at least get some playing time to work his way back.

I've watched it a few times. Honestly I don't know if JA even had time to find any other receiver to throw it in their general direction so we didn't take a IG penalty which would have taken us out of range. NN made a chip block and then turned around but JA already had 2 guys in his face. Plus the other 2 WR I saw were in the middle of the field presumably to block, not at the sidelines.

If JA had thrown it to the side it would have been IG.

Ultimately, its still on the coaches as we should have had at least 1 TO at that point.

Right- play design. Screen was the right call, but Wyo Coach knew it was coming and had his guys in position to shut it down. Great coaching by him. There wasn't a good outlet for JA with the blitz, WRs blocking downfield and Noel covered. Hate to say it, but the right play there was ptobably a max protect with 2 WR and a TE working the mid to see if we could pick up quick yards or the play they run on every 3rd and long in situations where it doesn't make as much since- Nate Noel up the middle and position Hughes for a right hash FG to tie. This is why I'm frustrated with playcalling. Taking risks when an unsuccessful result is way more damaging and not taking risks when an unsuccessful result is less damaging. It's incredibly stupid the more I think about it and we have done it in multiple games.

[appstatealum]

Evidently some don't understand the rules - as stated above he couldn't throw it to the sidelines as no receivers were there - he absolutely couldn't take a sack (game over) - to me, he made the only play he could have. If you look again at the replay you will see that if his pass had been a foot higher/yard longer it had a good probably of being completed. The Wyoming DB had to leap with outstretched arm to catch it and only a couple of yards behind him is our TE, who could have gone after the ball - Give credit to the Wyoming DC who called the all out blitz, it worked.

Clark was outcoached???? - when his game plan completely dominated the opponent on both sides of the ball - beating them at their own game - REALLY??? - Wyoming won the game on a play which had never happened before in the HISTORY of Appalachian State Football - that is NOT being out-coached...

You are right and wrong in the same post. Right about JA, his options were limited and he's a gunslinger, so he did what was expected.
Wyoming clearly didn't have the fire power or speed to match us. Continuing to play "their game", regardless of how well we were doing it, played into their favor (hence why they came away with a win). Do you watch UFC?
When you have knocked a fighter down, you ground and pound his face with hammer punches until the official calls the fight off. You don't let the fighter back up to his feet bc "you'd rather win the fight technically after it goes the full distance." All it can take is one heavy and well.placed swing for them to tko your ass. App got TKOd in the final 10 seconds of a fight they technically dominated all match.

[ASUTodd]

Evidently some don't understand the rules - as stated above he couldn't throw it to the sidelines as no receivers were there - he absolutely couldn't take a sack (game over) - to me, he made the only play he could have. If you look again at the replay you will see that if his pass had been a foot higher/yard longer it had a good probably of being completed. The Wyoming DB had to leap with outstretched arm to catch it and only a couple of yards behind him is our TE, who could have gone after the ball - Give credit to the Wyoming DC who called the all out blitz, it worked.

Clark was outcoached???? - when his game plan completely dominated the opponent on both sides of the ball - beating them at their own game - REALLY??? - Wyoming won the game on a play which had never happened before in the HISTORY of Appalachian State Football - that is NOT being out-coached...

You are right and wrong in the same post. Right about JA, his options were limited and he's a gunslinger, so he did what was expected.
Wyoming clearly didn't have the fire power or speed to match us. Continuing to play "their game", regardless of how well we were doing it, played into their favor (hence why they came away with a win). Do you watch UFC?
When you have knocked a fighter down, you ground and pound his face with hammer punches until the official calls the fight off. You don't let the fighter back up to his feet bc "you'd rather win the fight technically after it goes the full distance." All it can take is one heavy and well.placed swing for them to tko your ass. App got TKOd in the final 10 seconds of a fight they technically dominated all match.

Perfect analogy! I look back on the Pat Barry/Kongo fight.... Barry didn't finish him, Kongo got back to his feet, and knocked the poor dude out. I watched Clark's short post-game video on the youtube chan.... he said Offense couldn't execute and score.

.... as hard as I am on Clark, I could tell he was NOT happy at all with the offense. He def called the offense out.

[AppStateNews]

I went back and watched the play where JA threw the int. Noel was covered, the screen pass wasn't available. Instead of slinging it in the stands JA threw it up for grabs. TERRIBLE mistake that should be known by every QB even at the high school level. Sorry but I'm not sold that JA is QB1 and I think Burger should have a shot at winning the starting job when he's healthy or at least get some playing time to work his way back.

I've watched it a few times. Honestly I don't know if JA even had time to find any other receiver to throw it in their general direction so we didn't take a IG penalty which would have taken us out of range. NN made a chip block and then turned around but JA already had 2 guys in his face. Plus the other 2 WR I saw were in the middle of the field presumably to block, not at the sidelines.

If JA had thrown it to the side it would have been IG.

Ultimately, its still on the coaches as we should have had at least 1 TO at that point.

Yup, it was set up perfectly. If JA continues to back pedal instead of chucking it, Noel walks in. That's exactly how you set up the screen. Make it look like it's a dead play and boom, your best athlete has the ball in space with the entire team blocking.

JA just rushed it when the pressure got in quicker than expected. Noel wasn't looking when JA released the ball, but Noel was looking when the ball got to the level Noel was. The RB is hardly ever looking when the ball is thrown on a screen if it's ran correctly.

[WVAPPeer]

NO - I don't watch that crap -

[AtlAppMan]

On the replay I saw, there were two defensive players coming at JA fast and almost in his face as he released. He didn't have any time to wait. He tried to get it out, which was the right thing to do. He was back peddling to avoid blitz. He has as much arm strength as you will see in QB but due to the above just didn't get quite enough on it and LB was dropping back to cover. If JA had just a little more on it we probably get a completion or TD. All of that was split second and JA's decision was not a bad one. You have to give Wyoming a pat on back for calling their play and executing on it. It was all a fraction of this/that that makes or breaks a play like that and it went in their favor. It was a reasonable play call on our part and if it worked SC and our team are heroes. As it ended Wyoming looked great.

[WVAPPeer]

And by "playing their game" I was simply referring to maintaining ball control and working the clock -

[311neers]

On the replay I saw, there were two defensive players coming at JA fast and almost in his face as he released. He didn't have any time to wait. He tried to get it out, which was the right thing to do. He was back peddling to avoid blitz. He has as much arm strength as you will see in QB but due to the above just didn't get quite enough on it and LB was dropping back to cover. If JA had just a little more on it we probably get a completion or TD. All of that was split second and JA's decision was not a bad one. You have to give Wyoming a pat on back for calling their play and executing on it. It was all a fraction of this/that that makes or breaks a play like that and it went in their favor. It was a reasonable play call on our part and if it worked SC and our team are heroes. As it ended Wyoming looked great.

Not sure how we didnt have a hot route there as a check down since we knew they were bringing the house. I know we didnt have any timeouts but check it down on a now route and get the first, get down fast or get out of bounds. Spike and kick, live another day- or take another shot to the end zone. Would have been lovely to have one of those timeouts we burned. Onto next week, beat ULM and go 1-0!

[AppStateNews]

On the replay I saw, there were two defensive players coming at JA fast and almost in his face as he released. He didn't have any time to wait. He tried to get it out, which was the right thing to do. He was back peddling to avoid blitz. He has as much arm strength as you will see in QB but due to the above just didn't get quite enough on it and LB was dropping back to cover. If JA had just a little more on it we probably get a completion or TD. All of that was split second and JA's decision was not a bad one. You have to give Wyoming a pat on back for calling their play and executing on it. It was all a fraction of this/that that makes or breaks a play like that and it went in their favor. It was a reasonable play call on our part and if it worked SC and our team are heroes. As it ended Wyoming looked great.

To be clear, I am not blaming JA for what he did. He had two very large men aiming down at him and had to make a split second decision.

But, if JA lobs it in Noel's direction instead of down field at the TE that is about to block and has no idea the ball is even coming until it's in the air so he can't get position, we at least have a chance to score. It's possible it doesn't get to Noel, but there's still a better chance to score a TD if going with the designed play.

It's a learning moment for JA. A RB screen play is hard to run as a QB. And we don't run them often which adds to the difficulty. I bet if JA is in the same position next week, it's a TD to Noel.

[AppStateNews]

On the replay I saw, there were two defensive players coming at JA fast and almost in his face as he released. He didn't have any time to wait. He tried to get it out, which was the right thing to do. He was back peddling to avoid blitz. He has as much arm strength as you will see in QB but due to the above just didn't get quite enough on it and LB was dropping back to cover. If JA had just a little more on it we probably get a completion or TD. All of that was split second and JA's decision was not a bad one. You have to give Wyoming a pat on back for calling their play and executing on it. It was all a fraction of this/that that makes or breaks a play like that and it went in their favor. It was a reasonable play call on our part and if it worked SC and our team are heroes. As it ended Wyoming looked great.

Not sure how we didnt have a hot route there as a check down since we knew they were bringing the house. I know we didnt have any timeouts but check it down on a now route and get the first, get down fast or get out of bounds. Spike and kick, live another day- or take another shot to the end zone. Would have been lovely to have one of those timeouts we burned. Onto next week, beat ULM and go 1-0!

You don't typically have hot routes on a RB screen. The RB is the hot route. You need everyone in block mode for the RB screen to work.

[appstatealum]

On the replay I saw, there were two defensive players coming at JA fast and almost in his face as he released. He didn't have any time to wait. He tried to get it out, which was the right thing to do. He was back peddling to avoid blitz. He has as much arm strength as you will see in QB but due to the above just didn't get quite enough on it and LB was dropping back to cover. If JA had just a little more on it we probably get a completion or TD. All of that was split second and JA's decision was not a bad one. You have to give Wyoming a pat on back for calling their play and executing on it. It was all a fraction of this/that that makes or breaks a play like that and it went in their favor. It was a reasonable play call on our part and if it worked SC and our team are heroes. As it ended Wyoming looked great.

If it had worked and we won, I still would have the same concerns as I do today. Same issue I had after the Troy game last year- we shouldn't be in positions where one play makes or breaks us against lesser teams.

[appstatealum]

And by "playing their game" I was simply referring to maintaining ball control and working the clock -

I knew what you meant. My point still stands that our team isn't built for that and instead should be going for the jugular.

[Black Saturday]

On the replay I saw, there were two defensive players coming at JA fast and almost in his face as he released. He didn't have any time to wait. He tried to get it out, which was the right thing to do. He was back peddling to avoid blitz. He has as much arm strength as you will see in QB but due to the above just didn't get quite enough on it and LB was dropping back to cover. If JA had just a little more on it we probably get a completion or TD. All of that was split second and JA's decision was not a bad one. You have to give Wyoming a pat on back for calling their play and executing on it. It was all a fraction of this/that that makes or breaks a play like that and it went in their favor. It was a reasonable play call on our part and if it worked SC and our team are heroes. As it ended Wyoming looked great.

If it had worked and we won, I still would have the same concerns as I do today. Same issue I had after the Troy game last year- we shouldn't be in positions where one play makes or breaks us against lesser teams.

Wyoming was favored by the pros in Vegas, not a lesser team

APP won the stats battle but lost the game.

[Longrifle28]

On the replay I saw, there were two defensive players coming at JA fast and almost in his face as he released. He didn't have any time to wait. He tried to get it out, which was the right thing to do. He was back peddling to avoid blitz. He has as much arm strength as you will see in QB but due to the above just didn't get quite enough on it and LB was dropping back to cover. If JA had just a little more on it we probably get a completion or TD. All of that was split second and JA's decision was not a bad one. You have to give Wyoming a pat on back for calling their play and executing on it. It was all a fraction of this/that that makes or breaks a play like that and it went in their favor. It was a reasonable play call on our part and if it worked SC and our team are heroes. As it ended Wyoming looked great.

If it had worked and we won, I still would have the same concerns as I do today. Same issue I had after the Troy game last year- we shouldn't be in positions where one play makes or breaks us against lesser teams.

Wyoming was favored by the pros in Vegas, not a lesser team

APP won the stats battle but lost the game.

I don't get the lesser team talk also. They played a tougher schedule than we have and had the same record. They don't play a pretty style of football, but they play a style that keeps the game close and gives them a chance. Troy ended up winning the conference...