Early, but let's do it now

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by appgrad95&97 » Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:28 pm

Saint3333 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:21 pm
Can you imagine walking into a meeting and blaming your predecessor four years removed for this year's performance. Time to move on from Drink guys.
Clark is flawless. Absolutely nothing is his fault. When we win, he is Knute Rockne. When we loose it is the players, the assistants, climate change and OBVIOUSLY, Drink. When we can't blame Drink anymore, say 2030, it will be NIL or the portal. It will never be Clark. And goodness knows it will NEVER be the man who hired and extended him.

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by AppStateNews » Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:35 pm

Saint3333 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:21 pm
Can you imagine walking into a meeting and blaming your predecessor four years removed for this year's performance. Time to move on from Drink guys.
If when I took the job I said "Listen, this is going to take 5 years to fix. I can only do so much with what we currently have and is going to take time to fix" then yes, I can imagine that.

And that's exactly what happened.
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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by AppStateNews » Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:40 pm

appgrad95&97 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:28 pm
Saint3333 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:21 pm
Can you imagine walking into a meeting and blaming your predecessor four years removed for this year's performance. Time to move on from Drink guys.
Clark is flawless. Absolutely nothing is his fault. When we win, he is Knute Rockne. When we loose it is the players, the assistants, climate change and OBVIOUSLY, Drink. When we can't blame Drink anymore, say 2030, it will be NIL or the portal. It will never be Clark. And goodness knows it will NEVER be the man who hired and extended him.
Clark is to blame some. Hell, every post game conference, he says they should have done XYZ more. Nobody said otherwise. He just isn't the primary blame like you seem to think. College football administration is so much bigger than the coach. If it was up to Clark, this would have all been fixed in 2020. Problem is, they have to go through the AD, Chancellor, BOG, State, Trustees, etc. for EVERYTHING (even as simple as changing the soap in the locker room) so it's not up to Clark.

Likewise, Clark is evil. Absolutely has no knowledge of football. When we win, he is luck. When we lose, he deserves it and should be hog tied and thrown in duck pond. When Clark turns it around, say 2024, it will still be luck. It will never be Clark had a mess to clean up. And goodness knows, even the AD knows Clark can only win when he is lucky!
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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by EastHallApp » Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:55 pm

AppStateNews wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:35 pm
Saint3333 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:21 pm
Can you imagine walking into a meeting and blaming your predecessor four years removed for this year's performance. Time to move on from Drink guys.
If when I took the job I said "Listen, this is going to take 5 years to fix. I can only do so much with what we currently have and is going to take time to fix" then yes, I can imagine that.

And that's exactly what happened.
If you had interviewed for the job of head coach at App in 2019 - with the program at the highest point in its history and most of the roster coming back - and told the AD "listen, this is going to take 5 years to fix, I can only do so much with what we currently have," you wouldn't have to worry about accepting the job.

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by AppStateNews » Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:03 pm

EastHallApp wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:55 pm
AppStateNews wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:35 pm
Saint3333 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:21 pm
Can you imagine walking into a meeting and blaming your predecessor four years removed for this year's performance. Time to move on from Drink guys.
If when I took the job I said "Listen, this is going to take 5 years to fix. I can only do so much with what we currently have and is going to take time to fix" then yes, I can imagine that.

And that's exactly what happened.
If you had interviewed for the job of head coach at App in 2019 - with the program at the highest point in its history and most of the roster coming back - and told the AD "listen, this is going to take 5 years to fix, I can only do so much with what we currently have," you wouldn't have to worry about accepting the job.
Then I guess it's good you're not an AD..
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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by BallantyneApp » Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:24 pm

AppStateNews wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:35 pm
Saint3333 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:21 pm
Can you imagine walking into a meeting and blaming your predecessor four years removed for this year's performance. Time to move on from Drink guys.
If when I took the job I said "Listen, this is going to take 5 years to fix. I can only do so much with what we currently have and is going to take time to fix" then yes, I can imagine that.

And that's exactly what happened.
i refuse to believe that 1 lackluster recruiting class can't be mitigated in years with the transfer portal.

If clark told gillen he needed 5 years to "fix" a 13-1 team, then hes a hell of a salesman.

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by AppStateNews » Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:41 pm

BallantyneApp wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:24 pm
AppStateNews wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:35 pm
Saint3333 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:21 pm
Can you imagine walking into a meeting and blaming your predecessor four years removed for this year's performance. Time to move on from Drink guys.
If when I took the job I said "Listen, this is going to take 5 years to fix. I can only do so much with what we currently have and is going to take time to fix" then yes, I can imagine that.

And that's exactly what happened.
i refuse to believe that 1 lackluster recruiting class can't be mitigated in years with the transfer portal.

If clark told gillen he needed 5 years to "fix" a 13-1 team, then hes a hell of a salesman.
I do agree Clark's biggest flaw so far was his hesitance to use the portal. But, now with NIL, he doesn't have an option.

We've never relied on transfers. We've always relied on recruits that want to be here. Not recruits that want to use us to get that next offer. That landscape has changed and so has Clarks philosophy on it. We will see this year how many hits we got in the portal, but from what I hear, they are looking solid.

We also have to remember the super seniors caused more class imbalance. So, it wasn't just one poor class. It was one poor class without any focus combined with Covid and unable to really recruit, and then adding the super seniors to take away scholarships from recruits to balance the class. Obviously, Clark didn't know this was going to happen so the 5 year comment was to get the talent and depth he needed in the locker room. The transfer portal has helped fix the delays.
Last edited by AppStateNews on Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by EastHallApp » Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:51 pm

BallantyneApp wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:24 pm
AppStateNews wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:35 pm
Saint3333 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:21 pm
Can you imagine walking into a meeting and blaming your predecessor four years removed for this year's performance. Time to move on from Drink guys.
If when I took the job I said "Listen, this is going to take 5 years to fix. I can only do so much with what we currently have and is going to take time to fix" then yes, I can imagine that.

And that's exactly what happened.
i refuse to believe that 1 lackluster recruiting class can't be mitigated in years with the transfer portal.

If clark told gillen he needed 5 years to "fix" a 13-1 team, then hes a hell of a salesman.
Remember also that Clark actually got to keep many of the stars of that team a year longer than expected due to the bonus COVID year.

So he had two years with the "keys to the Porsche" (as people said when Drink was hired) during which he could recruit and develop players to compensate for the bad 2020 class.

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by AppStateNews » Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:54 pm

EastHallApp wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:51 pm
BallantyneApp wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:24 pm
AppStateNews wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:35 pm
Saint3333 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:21 pm
Can you imagine walking into a meeting and blaming your predecessor four years removed for this year's performance. Time to move on from Drink guys.
If when I took the job I said "Listen, this is going to take 5 years to fix. I can only do so much with what we currently have and is going to take time to fix" then yes, I can imagine that.

And that's exactly what happened.
i refuse to believe that 1 lackluster recruiting class can't be mitigated in years with the transfer portal.

If clark told gillen he needed 5 years to "fix" a 13-1 team, then hes a hell of a salesman.
Remember also that Clark actually got to keep many of the stars of that team a year longer than expected due to the bonus COVID year.

So he had two years with the "keys to the Porsche" (as people said when Drink was hired) during which he could recruit and develop players to compensate for the bad 2020 class.
But he didn't. Those super seniors took away scholarships from the recruits. We didn't have the money to cover the costs of everyone...
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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by 311neers » Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:04 pm

T-Dog wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:25 pm
Some of the "well actually" stuff posted on this message board after problems/losses literally sounded like stuff a coaching staff would say. I've seen it before with different programs when I would call out things going bad. And it's natural. Coaches want to remain coaches (same with trainers, staffers, etc), so they filter word out to explain why bad things are happening and keep public opinion from heating their seat up.

End of the day, Clark's buyout drops from $3 million to $1 million on Dec. 1, a week after the Georgia Southern game. The number of angry rich donors needed to pay his buyout will drop on that date as well, so if he feels there's a chance of not winning championships as he's preached for 3+ years, he and the staff he hired are going to temper expectations.
So you’re telling me we’ve got a couple burner accounts in here?!

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by Saint3333 » Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:14 pm

AppStateNews wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:35 pm
Saint3333 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:21 pm
Can you imagine walking into a meeting and blaming your predecessor four years removed for this year's performance. Time to move on from Drink guys.
If when I took the job I said "Listen, this is going to take 5 years to fix. I can only do so much with what we currently have and is going to take time to fix" then yes, I can imagine that.

And that's exactly what happened.
What kind of "IF" is that. You're confusing our football programs with Louisville when Satt took over.

This is revisionist history. I'm supposed to believe that Clark told Doug, this is a mess I need five years to fix it.
Last edited by Saint3333 on Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by EastHallApp » Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:15 pm

AppStateNews wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:54 pm
EastHallApp wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:51 pm
BallantyneApp wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:24 pm
AppStateNews wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:35 pm
Saint3333 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:21 pm
Can you imagine walking into a meeting and blaming your predecessor four years removed for this year's performance. Time to move on from Drink guys.
If when I took the job I said "Listen, this is going to take 5 years to fix. I can only do so much with what we currently have and is going to take time to fix" then yes, I can imagine that.

And that's exactly what happened.
i refuse to believe that 1 lackluster recruiting class can't be mitigated in years with the transfer portal.

If clark told gillen he needed 5 years to "fix" a 13-1 team, then hes a hell of a salesman.
Remember also that Clark actually got to keep many of the stars of that team a year longer than expected due to the bonus COVID year.

So he had two years with the "keys to the Porsche" (as people said when Drink was hired) during which he could recruit and develop players to compensate for the bad 2020 class.
But he didn't. Those super seniors took away scholarships from the recruits. We didn't have the money to cover the costs of everyone...
We were over 85 in '21, including 22 traditional recruits and six transfers. I know some of the super seniors paid their own way, too. Few if any recruiting sacrifices that year.

If retaining super seniors in '22 came with recruiting tradeoffs, that was Clark's decision. We weren't forced to bring anyone back. If he felt it was in the program's best interests to let some of the sixth-year guys move on in order to rebuild for the future, he could have done so. (And in fact I believe he did.) Or he could have kept his own guys and not brought in bit players like Tyler Page and Brady McBride as transfers, leaving those spots for younger recruits.

When I say he owns the roster, those are the kinds of things I'm talking about.

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by EastHallApp » Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:23 pm

Look, as I said, I'd prefer to just look forward and support Clark.

But if I for some reason felt compelled to go to bat for him and defend everything he's ever done, I think the approach I'd take would be: He was a first-time coach who took over at what turned out to be a tumultuous time in both college athletics and the world. Sure, he made some missteps. But he's been learning on the job, and he's a better coach and CEO than he was three years ago. And the growing pains he went through over the past few years are about to pay off with a wiser and more experienced coach who is ready to get the program back where we all want it.

Personally I would find that more reasonable than the "this is everyone's fault but his" approach, but ymmv.

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by EastHallApp » Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:27 pm

Saint3333 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:14 pm
AppStateNews wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:35 pm
Saint3333 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:21 pm
Can you imagine walking into a meeting and blaming your predecessor four years removed for this year's performance. Time to move on from Drink guys.
If when I took the job I said "Listen, this is going to take 5 years to fix. I can only do so much with what we currently have and is going to take time to fix" then yes, I can imagine that.

And that's exactly what happened.
What kind of "IF" is that. You're confusing our football programs with Louisville when Satt took over.

This is revisionist history. I'm supposed to believe that Clark told Doug, this is a mess I need five years to fix it.
Not only Louisville, but Satt took over an App program that was in decline at the FCS level and turned us into an 11-win FBS team by year three.

Honestly it's probably a little unfair to use Satt as the measuring stick, because the reality is that very few coaches could or will do as good a job as he did at App.

But yeah, to say it takes five years to "fix" a program that just went 24-3 is quite the take.

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by Yosef84 » Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:03 pm

Satt did an amazing job and I will always be a fan of his. The fact is that Clark took over and had to deal with a much tougher challenge (in my opinion). The level of competition is way harder than it was in 2014-18). Clark had to deal with Covid, transfer portal and NIL all hitting during his "learning curve". Folks, I haven't heard anyone claiming that Clark has been perfect. I certainly don't think he has been. i do think he was a good hire and he has done pretty well overall. Yes, last year was painful but it appears he has made very good moves in the off-season and I think we might be pleasantly surprised. Fact is that we were a few plays / bad calls from having an 9 win season and another bowl game (hopefully win). There are plenty of things that need to be fixed from last season and if I thought Clark thought last year was just fine, I'd be worried. I don't believe he does and I don't believe there will be a repeat. I guess we will find out.

By the way...those things I listed above aren't excuses. They are factors to be considered in an analysis. Anybody who uses metrics in a vacuum doesn't know anything about metrics. Someone above mentioned that Clark's biggest issue had been that he was slow to use the portal. Well......that is something he learned from Moore, Satt, etc. That's how we've always HAD to do things here. We have never looked for transfers first. We build from within. I'm glad he is adjusting because it's a new era but I'm also glad he has that tradition because in the end, that will keep App winning despite our lack of NIL. We recruit character and talent and develop it into athletes who compete against more "talented" teams year after year after year.

GO APPS!

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by T-Dog » Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:22 pm

311neers wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:04 pm
T-Dog wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:25 pm
Some of the "well actually" stuff posted on this message board after problems/losses literally sounded like stuff a coaching staff would say. I've seen it before with different programs when I would call out things going bad. And it's natural. Coaches want to remain coaches (same with trainers, staffers, etc), so they filter word out to explain why bad things are happening and keep public opinion from heating their seat up.

End of the day, Clark's buyout drops from $3 million to $1 million on Dec. 1, a week after the Georgia Southern game. The number of angry rich donors needed to pay his buyout will drop on that date as well, so if he feels there's a chance of not winning championships as he's preached for 3+ years, he and the staff he hired are going to temper expectations.
So you’re telling me we’ve got a couple burner accounts in here?!
No, just people who talk to coaches/staff members on a regular basis and basically present that side of the argument.

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by AppStateNews » Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:32 pm

EastHallApp wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:15 pm
AppStateNews wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:54 pm
EastHallApp wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:51 pm
BallantyneApp wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:24 pm
AppStateNews wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:35 pm


If when I took the job I said "Listen, this is going to take 5 years to fix. I can only do so much with what we currently have and is going to take time to fix" then yes, I can imagine that.

And that's exactly what happened.
i refuse to believe that 1 lackluster recruiting class can't be mitigated in years with the transfer portal.

If clark told gillen he needed 5 years to "fix" a 13-1 team, then hes a hell of a salesman.
Remember also that Clark actually got to keep many of the stars of that team a year longer than expected due to the bonus COVID year.

So he had two years with the "keys to the Porsche" (as people said when Drink was hired) during which he could recruit and develop players to compensate for the bad 2020 class.
But he didn't. Those super seniors took away scholarships from the recruits. We didn't have the money to cover the costs of everyone...
We were over 85 in '21, including 22 traditional recruits and six transfers. I know some of the super seniors paid their own way, too. Few if any recruiting sacrifices that year.

If retaining super seniors in '22 came with recruiting tradeoffs, that was Clark's decision. We weren't forced to bring anyone back. If he felt it was in the program's best interests to let some of the sixth-year guys move on in order to rebuild for the future, he could have done so. (And in fact I believe he did.) Or he could have kept his own guys and not brought in bit players like Tyler Page and Brady McBride as transfers, leaving those spots for younger recruits.

When I say he owns the roster, those are the kinds of things I'm talking about.
That's precisely my point. Some super seniors had to pay their own way to play one more year because we couldn't afford all of the scholarships. Likewise, we missed out on a few impact players because of the scholarships available. Because of the super seniors, we had limited spots for playing time. Which, as we all know, limits the ability to recruit immediate impact players.

Because of the crowded roster, majority of the players we got in the 2021 class (Clarks first real class) all had to be developed and will likely see the field this year now they are developed and ready to go.

Honestly, I feel like we're in the same boat in terms of thoughts on this --- maybe just different oars.
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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by AppStateNews » Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:41 pm

EastHallApp wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:23 pm
Look, as I said, I'd prefer to just look forward and support Clark.

But if I for some reason felt compelled to go to bat for him and defend everything he's ever done, I think the approach I'd take would be: He was a first-time coach who took over at what turned out to be a tumultuous time in both college athletics and the world. Sure, he made some missteps. But he's been learning on the job, and he's a better coach and CEO than he was three years ago. And the growing pains he went through over the past few years are about to pay off with a wiser and more experienced coach who is ready to get the program back where we all want it.

Personally I would find that more reasonable than the "this is everyone's fault but his" approach, but ymmv.
Nobody has said otherwise. People, like me, are coming to Clarks defense because of the "bring the torches! This is all Clark's fault" posts that riddle this board.

Yes, Clark has made mistakes. We all admit it. We all agree. His clock management is suspect at times. In my opinion, he's too aggressive at times and not aggressive enough other times.

But, those mistakes aren't the reason a 6-6 season happened. Those mistakes are why a 8-4 season happens. The 6-6 season happened because of the roster, class imbalance, and lack of on field leadership. All three of those things were things Clark inherited and has to fix -- and had a very clear,.outlined plan to DG and co during the "interview" process. Said clear, outlined plan was a 5 year plan.

Obviously with Covid, super seniors, NIL, transfer portal, etc, things changed. Again, I think he waited too long to use the portal as extensively as he has this year. But, at the time, before conference mates were able to pay 6 figures to transfers, he didn't feel like we needed it and would rather develop the players. That obviously didn't pan out for various reasons -- low assistant salary pool which caused constant turn over being the main reason. Also limiting it until this year was the UNC system issue with transfers losing credits. Ahmani Marshall transferred from Wake. He might as well not have gone to Wake as barely any credits transferred. From a prestigious school. That's an issue that has a bandaid on it.

Honestly, to me, shit started hitting the fan when Petersen was hired. He was the 4th or 5th option (for a reason), but best one we were able to afford. Had Petersen not been here, Zac Thomas plays one more year and 2021 is just as magical as 2019. This isn't a dog on Brice, but Zac knew Ponce's system as well as Ponce -- and Brice didn't fit the mold of Ponce's offense. Not Brice's fault at all, just what it is. Unfortunately, Zac had already signed with an agent (I believe - I know he was ineligible to return which is why they convinced Huesman to come back) by the time Petersen was "hired" away.

Likewise, if we had a bigger salary pool, Sloan would have been back in 2020 as well as a co-DC. We just couldn't match the numbers. Also, Greenhalgh turned down the offer in 2020 due to money as well. I would not be surprised if Cabral would have been offered back then too if we could have obtained Sloan. Jones coaching the LBs, Sloan at safety's, and Jones calling the run fits and blitzes and Sloan calling the coverages would have changed A LOT. If that happened, Jones would also still be on staff. However, after having all the reigns, he, understandably, didn't want to give that up (or change his philosophy).

The assistant salary problem has been alleviated some (still work to do) and we are able to get the assistants we want/need. Still some work to do though with what I think are some weak links on the staff, but hopefully new coordinators will change that.
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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by appgrad95&97 » Sat Jun 10, 2023 7:02 am

T-Dog wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:22 pm
311neers wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:04 pm
T-Dog wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:25 pm
Some of the "well actually" stuff posted on this message board after problems/losses literally sounded like stuff a coaching staff would say. I've seen it before with different programs when I would call out things going bad. And it's natural. Coaches want to remain coaches (same with trainers, staffers, etc), so they filter word out to explain why bad things are happening and keep public opinion from heating their seat up.

End of the day, Clark's buyout drops from $3 million to $1 million on Dec. 1, a week after the Georgia Southern game. The number of angry rich donors needed to pay his buyout will drop on that date as well, so if he feels there's a chance of not winning championships as he's preached for 3+ years, he and the staff he hired are going to temper expectations.
So you’re telling me we’ve got a couple burner accounts in here?!
No, just people who talk to coaches/staff members on a regular basis and basically present that side of the argument.
That's fair and that's great. But you have to take what you're being told from the inside with a grain of salt. It's not like Clark would ever say "Looking back I wasn't really ready for this job. The move from position coach to head coach was a lot more than I expected. Even four years in, I'm in over my head with all the things that go into being a head coach."

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by BambooRdApp » Sat Jun 10, 2023 7:58 am

After the first couple of pages of posters providing their predictions/thoughts on season expectations.. this thread became "nothing news"...
Some never wanted Clark and probably will never support him fully
Some are staunch supporters of Clark
Some are in the middle..
This has been known since Day 1 of the Clark hire ....
Today I Give My All For Appalachian State!!
#FreeMillerHillForMoMoney!!
#SleeveStripesWereTheBomb!!
#99ForPresident!!

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