Early, but let's do it now

[WVAPPeer]

94 - there are those people who thrive in negativism - we all know them in our own lives - if there isn't something to bitch and complain about then they find or create something - Many, many years ago on this board I was "honored" with the title of "President of the Lollypop Guild" - I am still gladly welcome the moniker. The one thing I do know is there are some on here who bitch and complain the most who could never be successful as a coach - BECAUSE, a team reads a coach like a book and once they pick up on that negative attitude a coach's chances to win nosedive substantially

Accepting and expecting mediocre seasons is now a positive statement. This is classic stuff.

More judgmental comments too, never stop being you!

I'd love for you to see me coach kids and talk to their parents you'd clearly be surprised.

Everything I said there is factual. You have quite the ability to read words which are not there.

[Saint3333]

94 - there are those people who thrive in negativism - we all know them in our own lives - if there isn't something to bitch and complain about then they find or create something - Many, many years ago on this board I was "honored" with the title of "President of the Lollypop Guild" - I am still gladly welcome the moniker. The one thing I do know is there are some on here who bitch and complain the most who could never be successful as a coach - BECAUSE, a team reads a coach like a book and once they pick up on that negative attitude a coach's chances to win nosedive substantially

Accepting and expecting mediocre seasons is now a positive statement. This is classic stuff.

More judgmental comments too, never stop being you!

I'd love for you to see me coach kids and talk to their parents you'd clearly be surprised.

Everything I said there is factual. You have quite the ability to read words which are not there.

Appreciate the comic relief as you don't have a real rebuttal. Deflection has always been your only move.

[AppStateNews]

Success takes hard work and maintaining success is even harder. This isn't news to anyone.

We have declined since Clark took over, it's really that simple.

I can support Clark, and want him to succeed as much as you do yet still acknowledge the decline and speak constructively about it.

I don't think anybody is denying the decline. The thing is we understand the issues at hand are bigger than Clark. Clark was left with cupboards half full going against teams with over flowing cupboards.

As a program, we were slow with the NIL stuff. That's not in Clark. As a program, we were slow using the Transfer Portal as we should have. That wasn't on Clark. As a program, we couldn't hire the assistants we wanted/needed. That wasn't on Clark. As a program, we were left with a fudged balance sheet from the previous head coach. That wasn't on Clark. Said balance sheet issues coupled with budget cuts due to Covid and we were up shit creek without a paddle. I know all schools had to deal with this, but we are the only program in the country that had to completely rebudget everything to keep our heads above water. That wasn't on Clark.

There are several other small things that go unnoticed

There are several other things as well. DG finally saw this after last season and opened up more funds. Some issues still exist but to a lesser extent.

Has Clark been perfect? No. Anybody saying he has is just as mental as someone saying Clark has caused this program to crumble.

2024 season is going to be special.

[Saint3333]

Good post News, constructive!

I wouldn’t say the cupboards were half full, but do understand it’s bigger than Clark. This is the conversation I enjoy seeing here.

[AppStateNews]

Good post News, constructive!

I wouldn’t say the cupboards were half full, but do understand it’s bigger than Clark. This is the conversation I enjoy seeing here.

Fair. Maybe not half full. But 3/4 full but doors stuck open and the dishes falling out constantly...

[AppSt94]

Judgemental is an interesting choice of words considering your stance with posters whose thoughts differ from your own.

What's in plain view to most of the posters here is the disappointing 2022 season. We view this as the exception and not the rule.

We've had more good news than bad on the transfer front and look forward to getting back to our (and the team and university's) on the field expectations.

We are a better program than everyone in the SBC and I'm not ashamed to hold us to that standard.

It's June, a time for excitement, not setting the stage for disappointment.

I’ve disagreed with people. Have I provided a counterpoint or differing point of view? Yes. But I have never told them that they are wrong.

You are free to hold the team to whatever standard you want. But seeing as you have zero accountability or actual skin in the efforts of the outcome, your expectations and accountability to hold the performance to that standard mean squat.

As for setting the stage for disappointment, who is doing that? We have the makings of a team that “could” be quite good. But there are pieces to the puzzle that could prove to be obstacles. That’s not an excuse, it’s just fact. Do we need our QBs to play well for first year guys? Yes. Do we need some OL guys to step up and provide depth? Also yes. Do we need the young guys that got time last year, (Sullivan, Ramsey, Samuel and Johnson) to continue to get better? Again yes. Do we need the transfers to come in and fill the roles we believe they can? See where I’m going with this? All of the questions that I raised are valid ones for this offseason. Do I think the answer to all of them can be “Yes”? I would like for them to be but that’s a tall order for any coaching staff to bat 1.000. We hope that we hit on the majority of them and coach the best we can to get through the ones that weren’t perfect.

[Saint3333]

This is a fan board and our "skin" in the game is that, which by the way is an important part of sports. If it meant squat you wouldn't entertain this discussion, so appreciate you validating it does mean more than squat.

You also preach we need money (and I agree as 20+ year Yosef donor and former President of the Advisor Board). Many of the fans on the board provide a meager level of financial support, but support none the less.

Your questions are valid (really every team has similar questions in the offseason), but the tone presents itself to many on here as negative for the upcoming season and setting the stage for disappointment or acceptance of another 6 win season. Maybe not your intent, but I'm clearly not the only one reading them in that light.

[WVAPPeer]

OK Saint - please point out where 94 or myself stated we were OK with mediocre - you surely implied I said that word

[Saint3333]

You haven't throw out a number, only offered hedges with a tone of average yet showing "improvement".

Mine is 8 wins, with the potential to win 9 if we go 3-1 in OOC.

Will you post a number?

[AppSt94]

This is a fan board and our "skin" in the game is that, which by the way is an important part of sports. If it meant squat you wouldn't entertain this discussion, so appreciate you validating it does mean more than squat.

You also preach we need money (and I agree as 20+ year Yosef donor and former President of the Advisor Board). Many of the fans on the board provide a meager level of financial support, but support none the less.

Your questions are valid (really every team has similar questions in the offseason), but the tone presents itself to many on here as negative for the upcoming season and setting the stage for disappointment or acceptance of another 6 win season. Maybe not your intent, but I'm clearly not the only one reading them in that light.

So you, and allegedly others, think my tone is being negative. Others think I’m too positive. This place is maddening. As for having expectations for things that you have no control over; I don’t set expectations because a) I have no control over the outcome and b) I am less concerned with what happened than I am with why it happened.

Was I satisfied with 6-6 last year? Not at all. Based on what I observed and was told, it didn’t surprise me that it happened. We could have gone 10-2 last year with everything that went on and most people would have slapped each other on the back for a average by “App Standards” season and not given an ounce of thought to how masterful a coaching job Clark and staff would have done to achieve that. Instead, we are on a message board questioning if he’s the right guy based off of 6-6.

[Saint3333]

You're likely confusing two subjects. Some think you're too positive on Clark yet too negative on the prospects of the 2023 season. I can see where both sides of that debate are counter to the other as well.

Being on a message board and not having expectations for the sports season because you don't control it is a cop out, sorry.

You don't control others emotions yet have expectations (via comments) of how others feel and emotions they show on this board.

I agree there are varying degrees of "success" in each year's win totals due to circumstances (SOS, injuries, etc.). Glad we can both agree 6-6 was not successful.

I think a tailgate drink is in order to discuss those nuances versus the two of us reading between the lines.

[EastHallApp]

JMU was a scheduling loss. They weren’t a great team, but they were well rested.

Rehashing the 2022 season as anything other than below average is intellectually dishonest.

The more concerning thing to me is how many people write some variation of "This isn't the same Sun Belt that we dominated in the past" as a justification for last season.

OK... so now what? "Hey guys, we had a good run, but Marshall and JMU are here now; we've just gotta hope we can sneak into a bowl every couple years from here on out."

All those teams that have made the league so tough? We were better than every single one of them from at least 2015-2019.

No. But if you expect your team to improve year over year and maintain the talent gap advantage and don’t expect the same ability to improve from your opponent then you are being, to use the term above, intellectually dishonest.

Tiger Woods came on the PGA tour and dominated immediately. He was that much better than everyone else. But as time went on, the pool of talented players competing against him got better and slowed his dominance. Did that happen because he got worse, or that everyone got better?

It’s not a throw your hands up and accept a new norm, rather it’s an acknowledgment that the world around you got harder. Yes, that means you either work harder or you fall back or sometimes both simultaneously. I know that this is an unpopular take around here, but winning takes more than X’s & O’s and Jimmys and Joes. It takes dinero as well. Some schools are willing to shell out big bucks to win short term. Others do the best they can with what they’ve got. Everyone loves the phrase “rising tides raise all ships” when speaking of the conference. But rising tides also level the playing field.

I'm not a golf fan, but was Tiger Woods at any point a below-average pro golfer prior to his car crash/divorce/body falling apart? Or did he just go from totally overwhelming to merely the best?

[EastHallApp]

Success takes hard work and maintaining success is even harder. This isn't news to anyone.

We have declined since Clark took over, it's really that simple.

I can support Clark, and want him to succeed as much as you do yet still acknowledge the decline and speak constructively about it.

I think this is where I get into debate with people.

For me, it's not about being "pro-Clark" or "anti-Clark." I'm pro-Clark because he's the coach at App, he obviously cares about the place, and he's working damn hard to make the program the best it can be.

But more than that, I'm pro-App. If anyone can't look at 13-1 -> 9-3 -> 10-4 -> 6-6 and see the obvious decline, then I can only assume they are motivated NOT to see it.

Are there lots of factors that have gone into that decline? Sure. Just because we don't all constantly remind everyone how savvy we are to consider all the variables, it doesn't mean we don't recognize that.

But sports are a bottom-line business. And Clark is heading into his fourth year. It's time to show improvement that's measurable in wins and losses.

[AppWyo]

Success takes hard work and maintaining success is even harder. This isn't news to anyone.

We have declined since Clark took over, it's really that simple.

I can support Clark, and want him to succeed as much as you do yet still acknowledge the decline and speak constructively about it.

I think this is where I get into debate with people.

For me, it's not about being "pro-Clark" or "anti-Clark." I'm pro-Clark because he's the coach at App, he obviously cares about the place, and he's working damn hard to make the program the best it can be.

But more than that, I'm pro-App. If anyone can't look at 13-1 -> 9-3 -> 10-4 -> 6-6 and see the obvious decline, then I can only assume they are motivated NOT to see it.

Are there lots of factors that have gone into that decline? Sure. Just because we don't all constantly remind everyone how savvy we are to consider all the variables, it doesn't mean we don't recognize that.

But sports are a bottom-line business. And Clark is heading into his fourth year. It's time to show improvement that's measurable in wins and losses.

Maybe App has not declined? everyone else has just caught up to App.

The win over South Carolina in '19 is to a team that went 4 and 8; Texas A&M went 5 and 7 in 2022. North Carolina went 7-6 in '19 and 9-5 in '22 and played in the ACC Championship game. UNC-Ch even lost to Temple in their 2019 bowl game.

[311neers]

Catching back up.

2023: 7-5
2024: 12-0. Win the SBC to get to 13-0. Host the first round of the CFP at Kidd Brewer and beat Cincy (sorry Satty). Go onto Atlanta in the CFP Semi's to beat the Clempsum Tigers (because ACC is weak). Then we advance to the Semi's v Texas at the Cotton bowl and win (Because Texas is not back). College Football playoff Natty in Atlanta and we beat the Dawgs and end Kirby's run of greatness. 17-0!!!!! Burger wins heisman too!

[BambooRdApp]

Catching back up.

2023: 7-5
2024: 12-0. Win the SBC to get to 13-0. Host the first round of the CFP at Kidd Brewer and beat Cincy (sorry Satty). Go onto Atlanta in the CFP Semi's to beat the Clempsum Tigers (because ACC is weak). Then we advance to the Semi's v Texas at the Cotton bowl and win (Because Texas is not back). College Football playoff Natty in Atlanta and we beat the Dawgs and end Kirby's run of greatness. 17-0!!!!! Burger wins heisman too!

Once we do that for 2024, I see a five year run of undefeated seasons. Then we lose one game the season after 5 year run...and Clark is hung in effigy and demands are for him to be terminated..

[EastHallApp]

Success takes hard work and maintaining success is even harder. This isn't news to anyone.

We have declined since Clark took over, it's really that simple.

I can support Clark, and want him to succeed as much as you do yet still acknowledge the decline and speak constructively about it.

I think this is where I get into debate with people.

For me, it's not about being "pro-Clark" or "anti-Clark." I'm pro-Clark because he's the coach at App, he obviously cares about the place, and he's working damn hard to make the program the best it can be.

But more than that, I'm pro-App. If anyone can't look at 13-1 -> 9-3 -> 10-4 -> 6-6 and see the obvious decline, then I can only assume they are motivated NOT to see it.

Are there lots of factors that have gone into that decline? Sure. Just because we don't all constantly remind everyone how savvy we are to consider all the variables, it doesn't mean we don't recognize that.

But sports are a bottom-line business. And Clark is heading into his fourth year. It's time to show improvement that's measurable in wins and losses.

Maybe App has not declined? everyone else has just caught up to App.

The win over South Carolina in '19 is to a team that went 4 and 8; Texas A&M went 5 and 7 in 2022. North Carolina went 7-6 in '19 and 9-5 in '22 and played in the ACC Championship game. UNC-Ch even lost to Temple in their 2019 bowl game.

I believe your memory may be a bit off on that UNC-Temple bowl game.

App played well against UNC and A&M last year; no argument there. It's the last nine games that were the problem.

Whether we've declined in absolute terms or just relative to the rest of the Sun Belt is, IMO, irrelevant.

[AppWyo]

Success takes hard work and maintaining success is even harder. This isn't news to anyone.

We have declined since Clark took over, it's really that simple.

I can support Clark, and want him to succeed as much as you do yet still acknowledge the decline and speak constructively about it.

I think this is where I get into debate with people.

For me, it's not about being "pro-Clark" or "anti-Clark." I'm pro-Clark because he's the coach at App, he obviously cares about the place, and he's working damn hard to make the program the best it can be.

But more than that, I'm pro-App. If anyone can't look at 13-1 -> 9-3 -> 10-4 -> 6-6 and see the obvious decline, then I can only assume they are motivated NOT to see it.

Are there lots of factors that have gone into that decline? Sure. Just because we don't all constantly remind everyone how savvy we are to consider all the variables, it doesn't mean we don't recognize that.

But sports are a bottom-line business. And Clark is heading into his fourth year. It's time to show improvement that's measurable in wins and losses.

Maybe App has not declined? everyone else has just caught up to App.

The win over South Carolina in '19 is to a team that went 4 and 8; Texas A&M went 5 and 7 in 2022. North Carolina went 7-6 in '19 and 9-5 in '22 and played in the ACC Championship game. UNC-Ch even lost to Temple in their 2019 bowl game.

I believe your memory may be a bit off on that UNC-Temple bowl game.

App played well against UNC and A&M last year; no argument there. It's the last nine games that were the problem.

Whether we've declined in absolute terms or just relative to the rest of the Sun Belt is, IMO, irrelevant.

I stand corrected on that Temple game. It was last year that they lost to Oregon.

[AppSt94]

You're likely confusing two subjects. Some think you're too positive on Clark yet too negative on the prospects of the 2023 season. I can see where both sides of that debate are counter to the other as well.

Being on a message board and not having expectations for the sports season because you don't control it is a cop out, sorry.

You don't control others emotions yet have expectations (via comments) of how others feel and emotions they show on this board.

I agree there are varying degrees of "success" in each year's win totals due to circumstances (SOS, injuries, etc.). Glad we can both agree 6-6 was not successful.

I think a tailgate drink is in order to discuss those nuances versus the two of us reading between the lines.

I’m positive on Clark because I understand a lot of the mess that he is having to deal with and clean up behind the scenes. Like I said earlier, we could have gone 10-2 last year and people wouldn’t have near enough appreciation for what an accomplishment that would have been.

As for the negativity on the 2023 prospects, I’m not sure where you are reading into that. I haven’t said anything to suggest that it IS going to be bad. We can end up anywhere from 6-6 to 12-0 with what we have coming back on the field. I don’t set expectations and certainly not drawing a line in the sand based on a record. We aren’t far off from being very good. We have a lot of questions that need to be answered. So do a lot of teams in the conference and I expect that they will try and answer those just like us.

As far as meeting for a tailgate drink, we can work to make that happen.

[EastHallApp]

I'm gonna resolve to steer my contributions on this thread away from arguing and back to optimism. It is June, after all, when everyone's undefeated.

I think Clark has had a good offseason, despite some of the structural challenges we face with recruiting and NIL. I think he saw some opportunities to improve the coaching staff and made good hires. And I like what I'm hearing about some of the incoming transfers, particularly at DE.

We've got a tough schedule and some question marks on the depth chart, but there's plenty to be excited about too.