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Renewing Season Football Tickets

spacemonkey
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Re: Renewing Season Football Tickets

Unread post by spacemonkey » Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:15 pm

t4pizza wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 11:14 am
spacemonkey wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:04 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 7:31 am
spacemonkey wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:33 am
BambooRdApp wrote:
Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:00 pm
Form above "I love some AppState but I loved it just as much at the FCS level..I was all for moving up but I think we can compete without spending a fortune. There are people willing to coach football for less money and going 6 - 6 with true "college athletes" is just fine with me. Growth is not always good."

Ahh, no we do not..going 6-6 for an extended period of time will decimate the program to where there is zero support. If you want to not pay coaches and love football...maybe supporting the the local high school team is the way to go... Ship.has sailed. We are D-1 and that is not changing. If we want to keep coaches for an extended period of time, got to show them the money. .it is the reality of the world of college football. Will we lose some really good coaches to P5, sure, however, be nice to keep them 3 to 5 years if we can pay halfway decent. App. St. just happens to be in a very coveted geographic location...living costs have grown exponentially since pandemic where workers can reside anywhere...that impacts our coaches decision making process to stay or go...

There was an article in Triangle Business Journal earlier this week titled Mountain Towns..it was focused on changes in cost of living in mountain towns out West due to changes in cost of living from the migration from large cities as many do not have to reside to work in the city. As I was reading, I started thinking...this is Boone, Blowing Rock, The Jeffersons, Banner Elk, etc. If cost of living goes up exponentially, you got to pay to entice someone to come to the mountains to coach. It is what it is.
I hear you...but we went 6-6 this year with two FCS team wins (So kind of 4-6) and we paid the coaches pretty well. We got Scott Satterfield from FIU and didn't pay him or his staff a whole lot as they were rolling through the competition. I think looking for someone that is trying to prove themselves will make for better hires at our level.
And then he left because we couldn’t pay his assistants more.
Nor could we pay Clark if he starts winning. It shouldn't be our goal to hold on to a winning coach. It should be our goal to find the next winning coach at the level below us.

P5 tv money is the difference not donation or attendance levels. It will make a difference if we are competing for g5 coaches but not against p5 schools.....the tv money difference is too large to overcome with local "seat buyers" to make up the difference. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Adding to the "Seat buyers/donors" is a great idea. Alienating the long term "seat buyer" is a bad idea. The long term "seat buyer" is the one creating the atmosphere that draws the new seat buyer. The long term "seat buyer" is the one that makes a recruit go "this atmosphere is electric". Wine and Cheese will get you the Tarheel atmosphere. Money matters but if you don't have it you better think outside the box.

By the way, Boston College, Miami, PennState, UNC, USC, Tennessee all have TV money and we beat or scared them with less money than we have now. Money is not the only variable in success.
While I do agree with much that you have said, I take issue with the notion that our long term "seat buyer" creates the atmosphere, etc. Our student section is without question what creates the atmosphere at the Rock. It is the largest, loudest and most unified cheering section we have in the stadium. Those kids are always standing (probably because it is packed too tight to sit) and making noise. Say what you will but the rest of our fans pale significantly when compared to the student section. I am sure you and all of us have seen many examples of fans not standing, getting upset when fans in front of them stand, not making noise on third downs, etc. Our student section makes the Rock what it is and that is what the recruits notice. Again, I agree with most but strongly disagree that any "seat buyer" new or old makes the Rock what it is, it is the students.
100% agree with you...our students turn out and turn up. And yes not all "Seat buyers" are loud. As I age I find it harder and harder to make as much noise.

AppSt94
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Re: Renewing Season Football Tickets

Unread post by AppSt94 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:18 pm

Saint3333 wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:59 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 11:30 am
spacemonkey wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:04 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 7:31 am
spacemonkey wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:33 am


I hear you...but we went 6-6 this year with two FCS team wins (So kind of 4-6) and we paid the coaches pretty well. We got Scott Satterfield from FIU and didn't pay him or his staff a whole lot as they were rolling through the competition. I think looking for someone that is trying to prove themselves will make for better hires at our level.
And then he left because we couldn’t pay his assistants more.
Nor could we pay Clark if he starts winning. It shouldn't be our goal to hold on to a winning coach. It should be our goal to find the next winning coach at the level below us.

P5 tv money is the difference not donation or attendance levels. It will make a difference if we are competing for g5 coaches but not against p5 schools.....the tv money difference is too large to overcome with local "seat buyers" to make up the difference. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Adding to the "Seat buyers/donors" is a great idea. Alienating the long term "seat buyer" is a bad idea. The long term "seat buyer" is the one creating the atmosphere that draws the new seat buyer. The long term "seat buyer" is the one that makes a recruit go "this atmosphere is electric". Wine and Cheese will get you the Tarheel atmosphere. Money matters but if you don't have it you better think outside the box.

By the way, Boston College, Miami, PennState, UNC, USC, Tennessee all have TV money and we beat or scared them with less money than we have now. Money is not the only variable in success.
You are right in that we can’t compete with P5 money. But Scott didn’t leave because of that. He asked for an increase in the salary pool for his assistants to make them the highest paid staff in the Sun Belt. That was probably an increase of less than < 500k to divide amongst his staff. In exchange, he said he would stay on until his kids were done with school, which would have been this year I believe. We couldn’t, so he didn’t.

I disagree with your “alienating the long term seat/buyer” comment. No one is alienating anyone. The bar has been raised and it is up to the individual to make the choice to either go under or over that bar. If it isn’t fiscally practical to keep up, that’s OK. You can’t hold up traffic because you feel an entitlement to putz around in the inside lane.
I'll repeat myself: You could have a 30 year donor that gave $1,000 for 10 years, $1,500 for 10 years, and $2,500 the last ten years get jumped for a parking space by a 2023 first time $3,500 donor. That is an individual that has given $50k to support Appalachian Athletics (on top of tickets) for 30 years. That would meet the definition of alienating the long term fan.

I agree there is a price of admission, but there are circumstances that aren't inline with what Appalachian is about. The points system needs to be weighted first for parking, tickets, etc. not current year giving levels. If the new donors want to "raise their bar" they have the option of doing so by upping their current year giving to surpass others in the point system ranking.
I understand your point. I just don’t agree with it. I think that there is a sticking point is the assumption that everyone is getting jumped by first time donors. The numbers don’t really suggest that to be the case given how slow we have grown as a donor base. I think that some long time donors have raised the bar by giving more.

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Re: Renewing Season Football Tickets

Unread post by Saint3333 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:43 pm

I know a donor that situation happened to last year, she was 70+ and a donor since the early 80's.

Why should the longterm donor need to step up their current level donation versus the new donor overcoming their priority point deficiency if they want to supplant that donor for parking?

The answer is we value new money more than loyalty even when the longtime donor is well ahead of the new money in priority points. It's a small number impacted, but it's a shame.

I've been a Yosef Club member for 20 years and served seven on the Advisory Board. Other than faith based giving there isn't a charity I'm more passionate about. We're better than this.
Last edited by Saint3333 on Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Renewing Season Football Tickets

Unread post by AppSt94 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:48 pm

Saint3333 wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:43 pm
I know a donor that exact situation happened to last year, she was 70+ and a donor since the early 80's.

Why should the longterm donor need to step up their current level donation versus the new donor overcoming their priority point deficiency if they want to supplant that donor for parking?

The answer is we value new money more than loyalty.
Once again, I disagree. Parking is a commodity just like eggs. If you don’t want to pay for it, then don’t.

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Re: Renewing Season Football Tickets

Unread post by Saint3333 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:53 pm

AppSt94 wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:48 pm
Saint3333 wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:43 pm
I know a donor that exact situation happened to last year, she was 70+ and a donor since the early 80's.

Why should the longterm donor need to step up their current level donation versus the new donor overcoming their priority point deficiency if they want to supplant that donor for parking?

The answer is we value new money more than loyalty.
Once again, I disagree. Parking is a commodity just like eggs. If you don’t want to pay for it, then don’t.
Once again for the record, you agree that a donor of $3,500 for ONE year gets priority in parking over a donor with $50k in lifetime giving. That is a shame.

By that logic we shouldn't even have the farce of priority points. According to your logic every perk within athletics is a commodity. They should move your season tickets and parking every year to make room for a larger single season donor.

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Re: Renewing Season Football Tickets

Unread post by AppSt94 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:02 pm

Saint3333 wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:53 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:48 pm
Saint3333 wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:43 pm
I know a donor that exact situation happened to last year, she was 70+ and a donor since the early 80's.

Why should the longterm donor need to step up their current level donation versus the new donor overcoming their priority point deficiency if they want to supplant that donor for parking?

The answer is we value new money more than loyalty.
Once again, I disagree. Parking is a commodity just like eggs. If you don’t want to pay for it, then don’t.
Once again for the record, you agree that a donor of $3,500 for ONE year gets priority in parking over a donor with $50k in lifetime giving. That is a shame.

By that logic we shouldn't even have the farce of priority points. According to your logic every perk within athletics is a commodity. They should move your season tickets and parking every year to make room for a larger single season donor.
If it helps the program, then yes! But again. You are making assumptions that that donation of $3500 was a ONE year donation. What if that person giving has been a long time $1500 a year donor that upped their donation to keep up with their desire for better parking? I bought season to tickets this year for basketball and upped my donation to get parking. Did I bump someone out to get it? Yes. Did I waste an ounce of energy and worry about doing that to a long time donor and season ticket holder? Not a bit because it was good for the program. If you want to grab a dictionary, I can show you where in the dictionary to find “sympathy.”
Last edited by AppSt94 on Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Renewing Season Football Tickets

Unread post by Saint3333 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:06 pm

Short-term thinking leads to long-term problems.

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Re: Renewing Season Football Tickets

Unread post by AppSt94 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:09 pm

Saint3333 wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:06 pm
Short-term thinking leads to long-term problems.
So does having a narrow view of situations. ;)

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Re: Renewing Season Football Tickets

Unread post by Saint3333 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:19 pm

I would encourage you to find a dictionary and quite a few other reference books, your logic is flawed, as is the definition of commodities, sympathy, etc.

Difference is I have an easy solution, not sticking my head in the sand and say "pay more or go home".

Enjoy the access you have to the powers that be should you get displaced, some elderly donors don't have that and they have and will leave. Everyone gets put out to pasture one day, let's take care of the individuals that paved the way for the program they helped build.

Maintaining relationships and building for the future can both be achieved with just a small amount of effort.
Last edited by Saint3333 on Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Renewing Season Football Tickets

Unread post by AppSt94 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:26 pm

Saint3333 wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:19 pm
Difference is I have an easy solution, not sticking my head in the sand and say "pay more or go home".

Enjoy the access you have to the powers that be should you get displaced, some elderly donors don't have that and they have and will leave. Everyone gets put out to pasture one day, let's take care of the individuals that paved the way for the program they helped build.

Maintaining relationships and building for the future can both be achieved with just a small amount of effort.
I doubt that there is any reasonable solution available that you would find acceptable that doesn’t service your needs specifically.

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Re: Renewing Season Football Tickets

Unread post by Saint3333 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:32 pm

It's not my personal needs, it's those that came before me that are being impacted. I likely replaced someone with higher points than me with last season's parking assignments honestly.

The solution is simple, use priority points for parking location and seat location blocks. If you fall in a points range you get Champions, Stadium Deck, Justice, etc. then within those lots your current year levels matter.

If a new donor doesn't like their place they have the opportunity to up their donation to rank higher versus their peers. The point system is weighted heavily towards current year giving, look up the formula.

The solution is readily available.

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Re: Renewing Season Football Tickets

Unread post by appgrad95&97 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:15 pm

You can't do what you did ten years ago and expect the same seats or parking spot.

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Re: Renewing Season Football Tickets

Unread post by BeauFoster » Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:31 pm

NC State, who has a dearth of land available for parking, rewards long time donors in what I would consider a fair way. Your lifetime donation is the base calculation, then you’re awarded an extra point for every 10 consecutive years you’ve donated, and an extra point for every 10 consecutive years you’ve had season tickets. There’s also a bonus for paying earlier in the year. Parking is assigned solely based on points and there is a published cutoff for each previous season so donors can see what lot they might be in based on giving. All of this adds up to being loyal to those who have been with the program for a long time.

http://wolfpackclub.com/sports/2015/7/ ... 55239.aspx

With that said, I can see how this type of system would seem discouraging to new donors. If I have a sizable chuck of money (let’s say $5k) that I want to donate, I’d personally feel like I want a perk or two for that (we’re now talking App money, not NCSU money). My $5k might barely get me within a mile of the stadium. For some, that’s going to be off-putting and they’re gonna spend that money on something else. We’re trying to grow the Yosef Club, and perks are part of enticing new members to join.

What I’m saying here is that we’re damned if we do, damned if we don’t. The administration has to weigh alienating existing fans while attracting new ones. It’s not a position I’d like to be in, but that’s why DG makes much more a year than I do. I wouldn’t be shocked if all this gets heavily revamped in coming years.
Give 'em hell!

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Re: Renewing Season Football Tickets

Unread post by dlh71 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:42 pm

Thought I would not get into this again but I do think I represent a important segment of the Yosef Club that some think is a commodity to be used and discarded. I feel that those in charge should certainly not loose sight of those that have been on this ride for Appalachian State University for a longer time. We have donated as we could and will continue if we are not used like a dozen eggs. Too those that have more disposable means we love you and need you more then ever. Surely a solution can be found. I would offer one. Every Yosef Club member at certain level deserves the PERK of a parking place. I wonder if an off site lot such as the new facility at the old Watauga High School could be used. It would require a bus dedicated to getting these Yosef Members transported to Rivers St. We now have golf carts for short service and it would take Just One Bus flagged as Yosef Members to do this. It is certainly a PERK I could buy into. Tailgateing with same level members would be great.

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Re: Renewing Season Football Tickets

Unread post by AppSt94 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 7:04 pm

dlh71 wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:42 pm
Thought I would not get into this again but I do think I represent a important segment of the Yosef Club that some think is a commodity to be used and discarded. I feel that those in charge should certainly not loose sight of those that have been on this ride for Appalachian State University for a longer time. We have donated as we could and will continue if we are not used like a dozen eggs. Too those that have more disposable means we love you and need you more then ever. Surely a solution can be found. I would offer one. Every Yosef Club member at certain level deserves the PERK of a parking place. I wonder if an off site lot such as the new facility at the old Watauga High School could be used. It would require a bus dedicated to getting these Yosef Members transported to Rivers St. We now have golf carts for short service and it would take Just One Bus flagged as Yosef Members to do this. It is certainly a PERK I could buy into. Tailgateing with same level members would be great.
I come in peace. I understand your solution and is makes sense for fans attending football games for 6 Saturdays. But every solution creates a new problem that needs a solution. Parking is a premium 24/7 on campus. In order to accommodate donors and season ticket holders for game days, it requires for students to move cars to lots like 105. So while it is a good thought, it may not be as easy as the solution seems.
Last edited by AppSt94 on Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Renewing Season Football Tickets

Unread post by Saint3333 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 7:54 pm

appgrad95&97 wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:15 pm
You can't do what you did ten years ago and expect the same seats or parking spot.
There are donors that have stepped up every 5-10 years and been giving for over 40 years. Their last 5 years of donations were all above $3,500 annually. My scenario above is not a hypothetical or an assumption.

Let’s take a different angle, why do we have the priority point system?

If a new donor gives $5,000 this year they will have enough points to park in one of the top four lots, let’s stop pretending large donors are able to get parking perks under the solution offered.

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Re: Renewing Season Football Tickets

Unread post by AppStateNews » Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:15 pm

What about those that have upped their donation 10% every year and still get knocked out? I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that happened to several last year.

I know of a person who was donating over $2k a year due to said 10% annual increase since their young alumni days. They got kicked out of their spot for someone who donated $500 once since the $2k donor wanted a lower "value" parking spot... That's not right. And Yosef Club basically said too bad. So now said $2k donor dropped season tickets and Yosef donation... The athletic department lost over $3000 a season for $500...
Last edited by AppStateNews on Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Renewing Season Football Tickets

Unread post by spacemonkey » Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:28 pm

Saint3333 wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:06 pm
Short-term thinking leads to long-term problems.
94 is a johnny come lately. He may get his wish and get to hob nob even more with the powers that be as more and more leave. More power to him. It makes him feel good about himself to be able to park somewhere special. He claims it is good for the program based on his 4 years of experience.

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Re: Renewing Season Football Tickets

Unread post by Saint3333 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:37 pm

I predict the idea of using the point system will be implemented in a year or two when the big reset comes. I’ve got a good track record on here with my crystal ball.

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Re: Renewing Season Football Tickets

Unread post by AppSt94 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:53 pm

spacemonkey wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:28 pm
Saint3333 wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:06 pm
Short-term thinking leads to long-term problems.
94 is a johnny come lately. He may get his wish and get to hob nob even more with the powers that be as more and more leave. More power to him. It makes him feel good about himself to be able to park somewhere special. He claims it is good for the program based on his 4 years of experience.
I’ve been giving for 10+ years but whatever you have to tell yourself to feel better.

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