So what becomes of transfer portal players that don't get picked up?

[t4pizza]

Neither side will convince the other of anything because it is just a different set of beliefs. You all believe that now that the players can go wherever they want whenever they want that it gives the school the right to abandon the promise of an education to the recruits/kids/players that didn't work out. I know they are 1 year scholarships, I also know that every coach recruiting promises the entire education on scholarship as long as the recruit/player/kid does what is asked of him. I stated a while ago that if the coaches were all honest and said that a scholarship would not be renewed if certain metrices (travel team, etc) were not met then I would have no issue in pulling the scholarship (that is what happens with academic scholarships) but since that is not what happens, I have an issue.

As to the labor argument, all courts have currently ruled against that position and clearly state that student/athletes are not employees. Also, just because NIL is running the course at major P5 programs does not mean that our players are benefiting in any meaningful way from it. I keep hearing people use NIL to justify a decision when there is zero evidence of any significant NIL deal to any App player in any sport.

As to whether I will be happy with 6-6 and a team full of players that can not exceed that level, of course not. But in that case, I look to the coach who brought the recruits/kids/players into the system. I hold the adult coaches getting paid A LOT more responsible for lack of talent then the talentless recruit/kid/player that is getting his/her education paid for. I don't think that gives the school the right to drop the scholarships.

This is all theoretical because I do not know that we have actually ever done this. I am just stating my belief system that if we promise the kid an education as long as he does x,y,z and the kid does x,y,z then we should not pull that scholarship. I am fine with long hard talks about his status on the team and if the kid wants to go then fine, but as long as that kid has fulfilled his obligations, the school should fulfill theirs regardless if the rest of that recruiting class went in the portal or not.

I will just end my foray into this area with a shortish story about what has helped influence my view point on this. Back when I was at App, I was a student athlete representative on a NCAA committee at App. In one of the meetings, the AD at the time (Laney, and not a fan btw) was going over the additional scholarships we were still carrying on the books even though the players had exhausted their eligibility. I found this disturbing at the time and asked why we would still pay for anyone that we were no longer getting a benefit from. Laney, for all his issues, explained it was a philosophical belief of the school that if we brought a kid up the mountain with the promise of a degree in exchange for athletic participation, then the school would stand by their decision as long as the kid stood by theirs, even if it took an extra year. He went to list numerous former players that benefited from that position. It made sense to me then and it still does now. I get college sports has changed a tremendous amount, doesn't mean I want my school cutting scholarships because the coach made a bad decision in recruiting. Sorry, just the way I see it regardless of the portal, NIL or whatever else comes our way. Somebody has to do right, even if they are the only one doing it.

In your scenario of a player using up his (or her) eligibility before graduating, can non-athletic money be used to provide the remainder of the grant without counting toward athletic grants since he (or she) is no longer participating on an athletic team?

I honestly don't remember the specifics of it but back at that time (early 90s) the school essentially paid for all scholarships anyways (low Yosef Club donation numbers) so I assume it was just an accounting issue of moving those players needs onto another ledger sheet. I think it had something to do with the 4 in 5 rule. Generally back then a kid had 5 years to use up his 4 years of eligibility. Mostly it was from a red shirt year as a freshmen and the degree could be finished but if the kid played as a freshman and never took a redshirt we still gave them the extra year on scholarship. To the best of my memory that was how it worked out. Again, not sure if that extra year was still on the athletic books, but we talked about it as if it was.

[AppSt94]

T4

I’m not quoting you but I appreciate the time and effort that you have put into the above work. While I understand your position and I don’t totally disagree with your position, it feels like you are focused on one issue that might not be an issue. Can you speak with specificity to one incident where your scenario has played out? I can speak to two scenarios and neither played out that way. Luke Smith is in the portal at his request, but he is returning in the Spring to complete his degree. I know of one other person, name not released, that was told his scholarship would not be renewed, but he finished his degree. Who do you know that was told to leave despite meeting all metrics? I’m genuinely curious because, if it is happening then that is a problem.

Like I said, it is all theoretical because I am not aware that it is happening. Just my position that it should not happen. This long diatribe actually started many days ago and to the best of my knowledge it is all just opinions on what we think of a situation that I do not believe has actually happened. In other words, a big waste of time.

Not a waste of time. It evolved into a circular conversation, but the thoughts were real things to consider. Appreciate the time and energy that you and others put into it.

[AtlAppMan]

T4

I’m not quoting you but I appreciate the time and effort that you have put into the above work. While I understand your position and I don’t totally disagree with your position, it feels like you are focused on one issue that might not be an issue. Can you speak with specificity to one incident where your scenario has played out? I can speak to two scenarios and neither played out that way. Luke Smith is in the portal at his request, but he is returning in the Spring to complete his degree. I know of one other person, name not released, that was told his scholarship would not be renewed, but he finished his degree. Who do you know that was told to leave despite meeting all metrics? I’m genuinely curious because, if it is happening then that is a problem.

Like I said, it is all theoretical because I am not aware that it is happening. Just my position that it should not happen. This long diatribe actually started many days ago and to the best of my knowledge it is all just opinions on what we think of a situation that I do not believe has actually happened. In other words, a big waste of time.

Not a waste of time. It evolved into a circular conversation, but the thoughts were real things to consider. Appreciate the time and energy that you and others put into it.

Back to T4, as was asked, please give some specifics and you said, to your knowledge you do not know of any. I too agree that we don't want to "pull" a scholly from a kid who did follow through with his commitments (x,y,z). I would think most alum and supporters would agree. However, if this is an edge case, why are we going down a rat hole that apparently is not the norm? As was said, an athletic scholarship is just like an academic scholarship, the student has obligations to maintain to retain the scholarship. As well, I DO believe a coach has a right to sit down with a kid, like a manager with an employee, and have frank conversations on what they are doing or not doing in order to maintain the scholarship.

Also, what is a 4-5 yr scholarship worth at App? $100k-250k? That sounds like real compensation for a person right out of high school. What is the average earning potential of a HS graduate with a skill? I do acknowledge the athlete does come out of HS with some valuable skill. To say the athlete is getting nothing is a false statement. Ask every kid that has to pay for their college degree. Just trying to compare apples to apples here.

[AppSt94]

You have to also factor into the equation as well. They aren’t getting saddled with monstrous debt that most kids come out of school with.

[NoLongerLurking]

So, what becomes of these young men who go into the transfer portal, lose their current FB scholarship when they do, and don't get picked up by another school? No scholarship & no degree in hand. Future ESPN "What could have been and what's become?".

I know there are any number of reasons they enter. But, the ones with misguided advice from family, friends, an unscrupulous agent or just plain ego. What of these kids?

Not just App but across all of college football.

College education is free now, didn't you hear? No point in playing a game that'll get you hurt or joining the military that'll get you klilled for the GI Bill when the wise folks in charge decide to print more money.

[bigdaddyg]

I think that every year you can basically break down the numbers. Take the total number of juniors and seniors (eligible for the NFL) and figure what about 1.5% to get the number who will make it? You also have a small number of the other classes who will either make the pros or might have a shot. After that you have the delusional segment of players who think they have a shot but in reality don't. Of that bunch some either take advantage of the academic side or don't put forth the effort and wash out.

After that bunch you have about 95% or so who should just practice, play hard and take full advantage of the scholarship. Each year now it seems like 10% or so of this group just wants to leave for either perceived greener pastures or are simply a bad fit. Some of the top guys obviously make good NIL money but I wonder about those fringe guys who are young (maybe poor) and will jump at even a few thousand bucks even if it means losing a very valuable scholarship.