I read we had like 38 guys graduate but a whole bunch probably still have a Covid year?? Have any of them said they are going to hang around for the extra season?AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:00 pmThat is a good question. I wonder how many total spots we have to give now? How many are returning as walk-ons? I am hoping we sign at least 25 from HS and JUCO, plus portal players. Is it about right that we have 30 spots to give right now?AppSt94 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:48 pmDo we know who was considered “dead weight” and who left on their own accord after understanding the situation? Keep in mind, some of these that were advised to leave had eligibility left but got their degrees.hapapp wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:28 pmSo much for the "world class education" we promised them. I'm absolutely opposed to "cutting players" if they have done everything asked of them but become a starter or star or are even "dead weight." Got no problem if the coach lays out for the player his future with the program and then the kid decides he wants to leave. But, it should be the kid's choice. Obviously, for folks who aren't going to class and are not doing what's asked of them, the situation is different.AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:56 pmVery good! I think this is the new reality. Many outside of schools and the players wanted this. I'm at the point where I really don't care if the coaches tell them they need to go or they just decide to. Coaches can give them advice but they don't always listen anyway. There are a lot of players being told to leave and I just don't think it is fair for us to expect coaches to live with their offer for 4 years but a kid can just decide to leave within a year and it is not looked down on. Players have always been able to de-commit without his reputation being hurt but the school pulls the offer on a commit and it looks bad. This was being discussed on 247 as well and whether you like it or not it is the new normal.appdaze wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:48 pmGood article
https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... -explained
"There isn't a scholarship available for everyone in the portal. In the 2021-22 cycle, only 61% of FBS players who entered the portal either found a new team or withdrew their name and stayed with their school. The other 39% did not find a scholarship position at an FBS school (although other variables, such as transferring to an FCS school or dropping out of the sport, factor into that)."
We have folks who don't want Shawn telling a player he needs to go elsewhere to play but also demand he win the league title next year. You can't expect him to keep dead weight when he could go find quality players that can help the team. I know this sounds like pro football by cutting players but when players started getting paid that is exactly what we have.
By the way, talk to coaches and you will hear some crazy stories. With all the extra crap and stress coaches are dealing with from the portal and NIL, I think cutting players is fair. They can stay as a normal student and get a degree or transfer elsewhere. This is the new normal and you will see it continue to look more like pro football as we go.
Here is the link to the fall sports streaming schedule.
https://appstatesports.com/news/2023/8/ ... edule.aspx
https://appstatesports.com/news/2023/8/ ... edule.aspx
So what becomes of transfer portal players that don't get picked up?
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Re: So what becomes of transfer portal players that don't get picked up?
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Re: So what becomes of transfer portal players that don't get picked up?
Given our past history in the portal and our issues with transfers, although that has been temporarily remediated. I’m not real confident that is going to be a savior for us.AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:16 pmSo many different reasons as to why I'm sure as well. I was hoping most would so we could sign more. There are more and more stories of players being overlooked in high school right now due to all of these COVID seniors. Hopefully the staff gets this class correct and we can add some immediate impact players. One great thing about the portal is that we can get plenty of help and see a big turnaround. Sumrall showed us that a one-year turnaround is not too much to expect. We could easily go from 6-6 to 9-3 if the staff hits on these moves due to the fact our schedule is easier.
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Re: So what becomes of transfer portal players that don't get picked up?
No, but that doesn't matter because around here, speculation reigns.AppSt94 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:48 pmDo we know who was considered “dead weight” and who left on their own accord after understanding the situation? Keep in mind, some of these that were advised to leave had eligibility left but got their degrees.hapapp wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:28 pmSo much for the "world class education" we promised them. I'm absolutely opposed to "cutting players" if they have done everything asked of them but become a starter or star or are even "dead weight." Got no problem if the coach lays out for the player his future with the program and then the kid decides he wants to leave. But, it should be the kid's choice. Obviously, for folks who aren't going to class and are not doing what's asked of them, the situation is different.AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:56 pmVery good! I think this is the new reality. Many outside of schools and the players wanted this. I'm at the point where I really don't care if the coaches tell them they need to go or they just decide to. Coaches can give them advice but they don't always listen anyway. There are a lot of players being told to leave and I just don't think it is fair for us to expect coaches to live with their offer for 4 years but a kid can just decide to leave within a year and it is not looked down on. Players have always been able to de-commit without his reputation being hurt but the school pulls the offer on a commit and it looks bad. This was being discussed on 247 as well and whether you like it or not it is the new normal.appdaze wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:48 pmGood article
https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... -explained
"There isn't a scholarship available for everyone in the portal. In the 2021-22 cycle, only 61% of FBS players who entered the portal either found a new team or withdrew their name and stayed with their school. The other 39% did not find a scholarship position at an FBS school (although other variables, such as transferring to an FCS school or dropping out of the sport, factor into that)."
We have folks who don't want Shawn telling a player he needs to go elsewhere to play but also demand he win the league title next year. You can't expect him to keep dead weight when he could go find quality players that can help the team. I know this sounds like pro football by cutting players but when players started getting paid that is exactly what we have.
By the way, talk to coaches and you will hear some crazy stories. With all the extra crap and stress coaches are dealing with from the portal and NIL, I think cutting players is fair. They can stay as a normal student and get a degree or transfer elsewhere. This is the new normal and you will see it continue to look more like pro football as we go.
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Re: So what becomes of transfer portal players that don't get picked up?
True.goapps93 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:47 pmNo, but that doesn't matter because around here, speculation reigns.AppSt94 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:48 pmDo we know who was considered “dead weight” and who left on their own accord after understanding the situation? Keep in mind, some of these that were advised to leave had eligibility left but got their degrees.hapapp wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:28 pmSo much for the "world class education" we promised them. I'm absolutely opposed to "cutting players" if they have done everything asked of them but become a starter or star or are even "dead weight." Got no problem if the coach lays out for the player his future with the program and then the kid decides he wants to leave. But, it should be the kid's choice. Obviously, for folks who aren't going to class and are not doing what's asked of them, the situation is different.AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:56 pmVery good! I think this is the new reality. Many outside of schools and the players wanted this. I'm at the point where I really don't care if the coaches tell them they need to go or they just decide to. Coaches can give them advice but they don't always listen anyway. There are a lot of players being told to leave and I just don't think it is fair for us to expect coaches to live with their offer for 4 years but a kid can just decide to leave within a year and it is not looked down on. Players have always been able to de-commit without his reputation being hurt but the school pulls the offer on a commit and it looks bad. This was being discussed on 247 as well and whether you like it or not it is the new normal.appdaze wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:48 pmGood article
https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... -explained
"There isn't a scholarship available for everyone in the portal. In the 2021-22 cycle, only 61% of FBS players who entered the portal either found a new team or withdrew their name and stayed with their school. The other 39% did not find a scholarship position at an FBS school (although other variables, such as transferring to an FCS school or dropping out of the sport, factor into that)."
We have folks who don't want Shawn telling a player he needs to go elsewhere to play but also demand he win the league title next year. You can't expect him to keep dead weight when he could go find quality players that can help the team. I know this sounds like pro football by cutting players but when players started getting paid that is exactly what we have.
By the way, talk to coaches and you will hear some crazy stories. With all the extra crap and stress coaches are dealing with from the portal and NIL, I think cutting players is fair. They can stay as a normal student and get a degree or transfer elsewhere. This is the new normal and you will see it continue to look more like pro football as we go.
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Re: So what becomes of transfer portal players that don't get picked up?
Our school needs to clean this up because allowing this to linger just hurts us. It is really stupid to let this linger when you consider how important the portal is to building rosters now.AppSt94 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:26 pmGiven our past history in the portal and our issues with transfers, although that has been temporarily remediated. I’m not real confident that is going to be a savior for us.AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:16 pmSo many different reasons as to why I'm sure as well. I was hoping most would so we could sign more. There are more and more stories of players being overlooked in high school right now due to all of these COVID seniors. Hopefully the staff gets this class correct and we can add some immediate impact players. One great thing about the portal is that we can get plenty of help and see a big turnaround. Sumrall showed us that a one-year turnaround is not too much to expect. We could easily go from 6-6 to 9-3 if the staff hits on these moves due to the fact our schedule is easier.
This won’t be an excuse because results are going to be expected or the boosters with a lot of saying and everyone on our boards will want a change.
Last edited by AppStFan1 on Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So what becomes of transfer portal players that don't get picked up?
I don’t think it is that important to know who they are anyway. I know many fans want to but that just isn’t going to be made public.goapps93 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:47 pmNo, but that doesn't matter because around here, speculation reigns.AppSt94 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:48 pmDo we know who was considered “dead weight” and who left on their own accord after understanding the situation? Keep in mind, some of these that were advised to leave had eligibility left but got their degrees.hapapp wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:28 pmSo much for the "world class education" we promised them. I'm absolutely opposed to "cutting players" if they have done everything asked of them but become a starter or star or are even "dead weight." Got no problem if the coach lays out for the player his future with the program and then the kid decides he wants to leave. But, it should be the kid's choice. Obviously, for folks who aren't going to class and are not doing what's asked of them, the situation is different.AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:56 pmVery good! I think this is the new reality. Many outside of schools and the players wanted this. I'm at the point where I really don't care if the coaches tell them they need to go or they just decide to. Coaches can give them advice but they don't always listen anyway. There are a lot of players being told to leave and I just don't think it is fair for us to expect coaches to live with their offer for 4 years but a kid can just decide to leave within a year and it is not looked down on. Players have always been able to de-commit without his reputation being hurt but the school pulls the offer on a commit and it looks bad. This was being discussed on 247 as well and whether you like it or not it is the new normal.appdaze wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:48 pmGood article
https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... -explained
"There isn't a scholarship available for everyone in the portal. In the 2021-22 cycle, only 61% of FBS players who entered the portal either found a new team or withdrew their name and stayed with their school. The other 39% did not find a scholarship position at an FBS school (although other variables, such as transferring to an FCS school or dropping out of the sport, factor into that)."
We have folks who don't want Shawn telling a player he needs to go elsewhere to play but also demand he win the league title next year. You can't expect him to keep dead weight when he could go find quality players that can help the team. I know this sounds like pro football by cutting players but when players started getting paid that is exactly what we have.
By the way, talk to coaches and you will hear some crazy stories. With all the extra crap and stress coaches are dealing with from the portal and NIL, I think cutting players is fair. They can stay as a normal student and get a degree or transfer elsewhere. This is the new normal and you will see it continue to look more like pro football as we go.
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Re: So what becomes of transfer portal players that don't get picked up?
How dare anyone speculate on a message board! The unmitigated gall that it takes to come to a fan site and speculate about one's team is just unforgivable. We should all be criticizing other people for having an opinion, and making sure everyone knows that "I am a better fan than you," not speculating about our team. Y'all need to get it together.
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Re: So what becomes of transfer portal players that don't get picked up?
Don’t do that, or risk ruining a foul of Baghdad Boone.appst89 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:12 amHow dare anyone speculate on a message board! The unmitigated gall that it takes to come to a fan site and speculate about one's team is just unforgivable. We should all be criticizing other people for having an opinion, and making sure everyone knows that "I am a better fan than you," not speculating about our team. Y'all need to get it together.
"Some people call me hillbilly. Some people call me mountain man. You can call me Appalachian. Appalachian's what I am."-- Del McCoury Band
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Re: So what becomes of transfer portal players that don't get picked up?
The portal completely destroys the student athlete concept that scholarships are designed for. We invest in an athlete and give them an opportunity to develop. Coaches also make a commitment to develop them. The portal makes that commitment on both sides a farce.
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Re: So what becomes of transfer portal players that don't get picked up?
Exactly. The players and media wanted this though. Be careful what you ask for. It is no longer about scholarships for school and providing an educating. It is a business and these players are being treated like pros. I didn’t want things to be this way but it is how they are now. It’s why I have no issue with cutting players that you miss on. It’s not fair to hold a coach to his decision for 4 years but not hold players to that decision. Both sides should be able to freely back out now that we have a portal. It is all about winning and players getting theirs now. Sad to see it but it is and we all have to accept it because it is not going back.yikas1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:10 amThe portal completely destroys the student athlete concept that scholarships are designed for. We invest in an athlete and give them an opportunity to develop. Coaches also make a commitment to develop them. The portal makes that commitment on both sides a farce.
Last edited by AppStFan1 on Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So what becomes of transfer portal players that don't get picked up?
Truthfully, how many players at App do you think are treated like Pros? I know we have some limited NIL but lets not exaggerate too much on our guys being treated like pros. I would agree with you that if a kid is getting paid good money that it changes the dynamic of the relationship with the school (even thought the school isn't paying him) and I would not be that upset with cutting a kid like that who isn't performing. However, for the vast majority of kids on our roster all they get is the scholarship (and the incidentals associated with it like tutors, early registration, team meals, etc) and a promise of a world class education. If our coaches are going to preach the world class education and promise a chance for a degree, we need to honor that promise of a scholarship. Getting paid big money changes that.AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:52 amExactly. The players and media wanted this thought. Be careful what you ask for. It is no longer about scholarships for school and providing an educating. It is a business and these players are being treated like pros. I didn’t want things to be this way but it is how they are now. It’s why I have no issue with cutting players that you miss on. It’s not fair to hold a coach to his decision for 4 years but not hold players to that decision. Both sides should be able to freely back out now that we have a portal. It is all about winning and players getting theirs now. Sad to see it but it is and we all have to accept it because it is not going back.yikas1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:10 amThe portal completely destroys the student athlete concept that scholarships are designed for. We invest in an athlete and give them an opportunity to develop. Coaches also make a commitment to develop them. The portal makes that commitment on both sides a farce.
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Re: So what becomes of transfer portal players that don't get picked up?
Just gonna leave this here and let y'all figure it out. "Student Athlete".....
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Re: So what becomes of transfer portal players that don't get picked up?
Many players entering the portal, when are schools allowed to approach those in the portal? I would assume they rush the admission process to get players to arrive in the spring.
It's not the easiest to find information about the portal
It's not the easiest to find information about the portal
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Re: So what becomes of transfer portal players that don't get picked up?
I suppose that was directed at my post. Now you know good and well opinions are not what I was talking about. Speculation and opinion are totally different things. The speculation I am talking about refers to making assumptions without any facts to back them up, such as who is the dead weight. This is the kind of thing that starts rumors and can ruin reputations. We are all welcomed to have an opinion, but speculation as to why players are leaving, etc. should be tempered. I, sir, have it together. Following threads on this board sometimes makes difficult to keep it together, but that's what fun about it.appst89 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:12 amHow dare anyone speculate on a message board! The unmitigated gall that it takes to come to a fan site and speculate about one's team is just unforgivable. We should all be criticizing other people for having an opinion, and making sure everyone knows that "I am a better fan than you," not speculating about our team. Y'all need to get it together.
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Re: So what becomes of transfer portal players that don't get picked up?
I read what you said on 247 and I get where you are coming from. FYI, I am 100% with you under previous rules. I also don't think we should push a guy out who is playing special teams and 3rd string who sees a few minutes here and there but with all the new rules it is okay to move on from a player who truly belongs at the FCS level or below.t4pizza wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:58 amTruthfully, how many players at App do you think are treated like Pros? I know we have some limited NIL but lets not exaggerate too much on our guys being treated like pros. I would agree with you that if a kid is getting paid good money that it changes the dynamic of the relationship with the school (even thought the school isn't paying him) and I would not be that upset with cutting a kid like that who isn't performing. However, for the vast majority of kids on our roster all they get is the scholarship (and the incidentals associated with it like tutors, early registration, team meals, etc) and a promise of a world class education. If our coaches are going to preach the world class education and promise a chance for a degree, we need to honor that promise of a scholarship. Getting paid big money changes that.AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:52 amExactly. The players and media wanted this thought. Be careful what you ask for. It is no longer about scholarships for school and providing an educating. It is a business and these players are being treated like pros. I didn’t want things to be this way but it is how they are now. It’s why I have no issue with cutting players that you miss on. It’s not fair to hold a coach to his decision for 4 years but not hold players to that decision. Both sides should be able to freely back out now that we have a portal. It is all about winning and players getting theirs now. Sad to see it but it is and we all have to accept it because it is not going back.yikas1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:10 amThe portal completely destroys the student athlete concept that scholarships are designed for. We invest in an athlete and give them an opportunity to develop. Coaches also make a commitment to develop them. The portal makes that commitment on both sides a farce.
I also think you have to consider that scholarships are year by year anyway. They are not fully guaranteed and a player can walk at any time now. It is not a fair expectation to tell a coach he has to keep a mistake for four years but a player does not have to stick with a school.
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Re: So what becomes of transfer portal players that don't get picked up?
I know they are year by year. I also know that every coach on the recruiting trial promises the kid and family that as long as he does what is required he will have the opportunity to graduate. No coach tells the recruit that if they don't live up to the athletic bar that is set for them that they will be let go, it doesn't happen. No kids would commit to that. Funny think is that it happens with academic scholarships, if your gpa falls, the scholarship goes away. That is known from the start. It the coaches told the kids that they would lose their scholarship if they can't crack the two deep by year 3, I would have no issue in pulling it. Since they aren't that transparent, they need to live with their promises of an education.
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Re: So what becomes of transfer portal players that don't get picked up?
I get what you are saying and in a perfect world I agree but let me ask the same question that use to be asked players could not make a dime or transfer. Do you find it fair that a coach should be forced to uphold a scholarship offer for four years when a player does not have to take that scholarship for four years? If players can transfer freely should coaches not be allowed to correct a mistake that they make? If players can de-commit just before signing day, get paid, transfer freely, and quit on their team late in the year just to play in the Senior Bowl and prep for the draft should a coach not be allowed to withdrew an offer to a commit or decide after two years to move on from that player?t4pizza wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 5:23 pmI know they are year by year. I also know that every coach on the recruiting trial promises the kid and family that as long as he does what is required he will have the opportunity to graduate. No coach tells the recruit that if they don't live up to the athletic bar that is set for them that they will be let go, it doesn't happen. No kids would commit to that. Funny think is that it happens with academic scholarships, if your gpa falls, the scholarship goes away. That is known from the start. It the coaches told the kids that they would lose their scholarship if they can't crack the two deep by year 3, I would have no issue in pulling it. Since they aren't that transparent, they need to live with their promises of an education.
We can't expect to hold Shawn to a high standard of 10+ wins every year if we keep a lot of dead weight around. Players are given a lot to go to practice, play games, and contribute to the team. I won't get mad if there are 2-3 players that just aren't contributing and you need those slots to upgrade the roster because of the way the landscape has changed. Now, I think the fair thing to do is help place them at FCS schools where they can play and not just forget them but players have to contribute. They are getting too much and expectations are too high to allow 25 players to just sit and waste a scholarship that could go to a good player in the portal or highly regarded high school prospect.
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Re: So what becomes of transfer portal players that don't get picked up?
I have zero issue with having hard talks with players and letting them know where they stand on the team, but if they want to stay they should be allowed to do so. And I have no issue with players having some freedom to leave as they wish. Coaches have been using that freedom for years (prior to the portal) and kids have always transferred out in search of greener pastures. It is much more of a thing now that nobody has to sit and can play immediately but it did happen on albeit a much smaller level in the past. Sure, kids have some power now for the first time. I don't think that changes the schools responsibility at all. And I don't see kids that aren't able to produce as projected despite their best efforts as dead weight.
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Re: So what becomes of transfer portal players that don't get picked up?
Would you stop referring to players who may be doing all that is asked of them but become starters as dead weight. Some folks act like these young folks are chess pieces.AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:04 pmI get what you are saying and in a perfect world I agree but let me ask the same question that use to be asked players could not make a dime or transfer. Do you find it fair that a coach should be forced to uphold a scholarship offer for four years when a player does not have to take that scholarship for four years? If players can transfer freely should coaches not be allowed to correct a mistake that they make? If players can de-commit just before signing day, get paid, transfer freely, and quit on their team late in the year just to play in the Senior Bowl and prep for the draft should a coach not be allowed to withdrew an offer to a commit or decide after two years to move on from that player?t4pizza wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 5:23 pmI know they are year by year. I also know that every coach on the recruiting trial promises the kid and family that as long as he does what is required he will have the opportunity to graduate. No coach tells the recruit that if they don't live up to the athletic bar that is set for them that they will be let go, it doesn't happen. No kids would commit to that. Funny think is that it happens with academic scholarships, if your gpa falls, the scholarship goes away. That is known from the start. It the coaches told the kids that they would lose their scholarship if they can't crack the two deep by year 3, I would have no issue in pulling it. Since they aren't that transparent, they need to live with their promises of an education.
We can't expect to hold Shawn to a high standard of 10+ wins every year if we keep a lot of dead weight around. Players are given a lot to go to practice, play games, and contribute to the team. I won't get mad if there are 2-3 players that just aren't contributing and you need those slots to upgrade the roster because of the way the landscape has changed. Now, I think the fair thing to do is help place them at FCS schools where they can play and not just forget them but players have to contribute. They are getting too much and expectations are too high to allow 25 players to just sit and waste a scholarship that could go to a good player in the portal or highly regarded high school prospect.