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Dale Jones out - Footballscoop

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Re: Dale Jones out - Footballscoop

Unread post by Cro-Magnon App » Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:27 pm

3rd and long = 7 yards or more. Is that right? That’s we way we used to enter it on the scout sheets.

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Re: Dale Jones out - Footballscoop

Unread post by Mjohn1988 » Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:47 pm

appstatealum wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:48 am
AppStateNews wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:24 am
Mjohn1988 wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:17 am
appstate24 wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:06 am
Gasparato?

Love to have Woody back, but understand that ain’t happening.

I remember when Drink took over, I talked to players and staff in New Orleans, and the ones I spoke to wanted Gas to be DC.

GO APPS!!
I sure hope we make this hire based on a lot more than who the players want.
Players and previous staff all said he was ready for it. It was Gaspo being the on field voice that turned the defense around in 2019.
Correct. It was much more than the players that were taking note of Gaspos savvy. He's a perfect example of the type of coach we need to cycle at App to keep salaries low and platforms high. We just have to have the next guy loaded in the chamber if the one we shoot out there gets plucked. To me, a good G5 program is one that can successfully provide a 3 year showcase for a coach who is looking to hit a big P5 contract.
A lot of people don’t want to here that last part, “3 year showcase”, but it’s just the truth. We can either be willing to hire good coaches we will lose or we can just lose.
Last edited by Mjohn1988 on Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dale Jones out - Footballscoop

Unread post by Mjohn1988 » Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:00 pm

AppStFan1 wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:43 pm
t4pizza wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:02 pm
NewApp wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:16 pm
t4pizza wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:28 am
You have to have players to make the right plays and reads. Dale didn't just forget how to coach defense this year. We simply didn't have the jimmy and joes that we usually have and the ones we had at LB got injured and missed too much time. Our coaches knew this, they tried to get DB's and DE in the portal this past spring, just didn't work out. 2 of the DBs that we wanted and wanted to be here chose not to come because our admissions wouldn't accept their earned credit hours. Both ended up starting on P5 schools, pretty sure had they been here we would have had a much better defense. Our coaches knew the issues, we just couldn't remedy it. Hopefully this changes this year.

Well let's just see if we are having the same discussion next year about whomever the new guy is or another coordinator or position coach.
If we don't get upgrades at those positions, we will most likely be having a very similar discussion.
According to some at 247, and I mean others not named Moose, we have been getting the best players that we can get. We either battle P5 teams or win the battles against our piers in the Sun Belt 90% of the time. I have never bought into this narrative but I have thought our players we are signing overall are pretty good.

If that is the case, then it is poor coaching and development but if not then what can we do to improve that?

We have had attrition due to injuries or players wanting playing time so we have missed at some spots but if we have a bunch of players going FCS and being stars, which we are, then that tells me we have a lot of talent. We have a couple former players who are likely to be named All-Americans in FCS this year, just like Bucky Williams was.

With all the bad luck from injuries and good players leaving because they did not want to wait we have become thin and are planning to hit the portal and JUCO just as hard as HS this year. If we do and bring in a 50/50 class then how can we expect to be fine if this deal with accepting credits that has held us back won't be fixed until next year, like is being rumored?

If we can't suddenly fix our issues with the portal now then how can we upgrade the talent if our issue is lack of talent? If you can hit 60% in HS recruiting then you don't need to hit the portal much if you are signing 22+ every year.

I bring this stuff up because it makes me worried we can't fix all of our issues. I have also heard that the COVID year messed us up and we had a lot of misses in that class because of it. Apparently it hit us harder than other schools in the Sun Belt for some reason.

Can we make enough upgrades, assuming our coaches aren't fully to blame? If we just get rid of a bunch of coaches then we have the other problem brought up not having continuity in our staff

I bring all this stuff up because we can have concerns and make excuses all day long but the bottom line here is that either our coaches are doing a bad job of evaluating talent and addressing injuries (we have taken injured players that work out and many who have not) or do we just have bad coaching or a mix of both?

If we make a few coaching changes and sign a ton of JUCO and portal players then it tells me Shawn has been told he is on the hot-seat and the pressure is on. Coaches don't go after those type players unless they missed badly in recruiting or are taking over and trying to turn a program around quickly not being worried about 3-4 years down the road.

We will see what happens but I fear we might be asking same questions and looking for a new coach if Shawn does not identify our issues and fix them quickly, regardless of whatever hurdles we have had. I refuse to believe we suddenly have hurdles that prevent us from beating Troy, CCU, Marshall, GSU, Texas State, etc every year with all we have done in the past and as much as we have beaten them before.
Their is one additional thing we could do. We could be doing our very best at player development but I don’t think we are. Regardless of the next recruiting class and or transfers we need to make absolutely sure we are helping the kids we have become the best athletes they can be. I really hope we are smart enough to take a very hard look at our strength and conditioning program.

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Re: Dale Jones out - Footballscoop

Unread post by Mjohn1988 » Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:06 pm

Longrifle28 wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:33 pm
If our PERSONNEL is not up to snuff, who is responsible for recruiting and player development?
Not being a smart A$$ but I’m going to give you a gold stare for asking about both of those things, recruiting and player development. Huge issues!!!!!

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Re: Dale Jones out - Footballscoop

Unread post by NattyBumppo'sRevenge » Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:33 pm

Mentioned earlier that there is another staff person getting ready to leave the program, not Geep. I think until the DC is hired, that the defensive position coaches will stay. Seems like strength and conditioning might be the next change.

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Re: Dale Jones out - Footballscoop

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:39 pm

Mjohn1988 wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:00 pm
AppStFan1 wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:43 pm
t4pizza wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:02 pm
NewApp wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:16 pm
t4pizza wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:28 am
You have to have players to make the right plays and reads. Dale didn't just forget how to coach defense this year. We simply didn't have the jimmy and joes that we usually have and the ones we had at LB got injured and missed too much time. Our coaches knew this, they tried to get DB's and DE in the portal this past spring, just didn't work out. 2 of the DBs that we wanted and wanted to be here chose not to come because our admissions wouldn't accept their earned credit hours. Both ended up starting on P5 schools, pretty sure had they been here we would have had a much better defense. Our coaches knew the issues, we just couldn't remedy it. Hopefully this changes this year.

Well let's just see if we are having the same discussion next year about whomever the new guy is or another coordinator or position coach.
If we don't get upgrades at those positions, we will most likely be having a very similar discussion.
According to some at 247, and I mean others not named Moose, we have been getting the best players that we can get. We either battle P5 teams or win the battles against our piers in the Sun Belt 90% of the time. I have never bought into this narrative but I have thought our players we are signing overall are pretty good.

If that is the case, then it is poor coaching and development but if not then what can we do to improve that?

We have had attrition due to injuries or players wanting playing time so we have missed at some spots but if we have a bunch of players going FCS and being stars, which we are, then that tells me we have a lot of talent. We have a couple former players who are likely to be named All-Americans in FCS this year, just like Bucky Williams was.

With all the bad luck from injuries and good players leaving because they did not want to wait we have become thin and are planning to hit the portal and JUCO just as hard as HS this year. If we do and bring in a 50/50 class then how can we expect to be fine if this deal with accepting credits that has held us back won't be fixed until next year, like is being rumored?

If we can't suddenly fix our issues with the portal now then how can we upgrade the talent if our issue is lack of talent? If you can hit 60% in HS recruiting then you don't need to hit the portal much if you are signing 22+ every year.

I bring this stuff up because it makes me worried we can't fix all of our issues. I have also heard that the COVID year messed us up and we had a lot of misses in that class because of it. Apparently it hit us harder than other schools in the Sun Belt for some reason.

Can we make enough upgrades, assuming our coaches aren't fully to blame? If we just get rid of a bunch of coaches then we have the other problem brought up not having continuity in our staff

I bring all this stuff up because we can have concerns and make excuses all day long but the bottom line here is that either our coaches are doing a bad job of evaluating talent and addressing injuries (we have taken injured players that work out and many who have not) or do we just have bad coaching or a mix of both?

If we make a few coaching changes and sign a ton of JUCO and portal players then it tells me Shawn has been told he is on the hot-seat and the pressure is on. Coaches don't go after those type players unless they missed badly in recruiting or are taking over and trying to turn a program around quickly not being worried about 3-4 years down the road.

We will see what happens but I fear we might be asking same questions and looking for a new coach if Shawn does not identify our issues and fix them quickly, regardless of whatever hurdles we have had. I refuse to believe we suddenly have hurdles that prevent us from beating Troy, CCU, Marshall, GSU, Texas State, etc every year with all we have done in the past and as much as we have beaten them before.
Their is one additional thing we could do. We could be doing our very best at player development but I don’t think we are. Regardless of the next recruiting class and or transfers we need to make absolutely sure we are helping the kids we have become the best athletes they can be. I really hope we are smart enough to take a very hard look at our strength and conditioning program.
I think they are taking a strong look and we will see some changes but money is always a problem with getting and keeping good ones. Recruiting is important and if we are missing talent, which if it is a talent problem we are, then that is an area to evaluate for sure.

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Re: Dale Jones out - Footballscoop

Unread post by wb247 » Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:05 pm

NattyBumppo'sRevenge wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:38 pm
wb247 wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:03 pm
t4pizza wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:05 pm
... I think we were let down far more by our lack of offensive production than our defense ...
Agreed. Defense would not have looked so bad if the offense could have spent a little more time on the field.
Maybe, but maybe our offense would have run more clock if defense would have stopped all the early scores.
Anyone have stats on the number of 3 and outs we forced versus the number of 3 and outs that our offense had forced on them? By quarter breakdown would be amazing! I have no idea, but I feel like there is at least a correlation. Similar number of 3 and outs forced when compared with time on the field in every game versus the number of 3 and outs we suffered compared with time on the field. Track that against games won. My hunch is that will show a letdown by the offense moreso than the defense.

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Re: Dale Jones out - Footballscoop

Unread post by appstatealum » Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:31 pm

Mjohn1988 wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:00 pm
AppStFan1 wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:43 pm
t4pizza wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:02 pm
NewApp wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:16 pm
t4pizza wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:28 am
You have to have players to make the right plays and reads. Dale didn't just forget how to coach defense this year. We simply didn't have the jimmy and joes that we usually have and the ones we had at LB got injured and missed too much time. Our coaches knew this, they tried to get DB's and DE in the portal this past spring, just didn't work out. 2 of the DBs that we wanted and wanted to be here chose not to come because our admissions wouldn't accept their earned credit hours. Both ended up starting on P5 schools, pretty sure had they been here we would have had a much better defense. Our coaches knew the issues, we just couldn't remedy it. Hopefully this changes this year.

Well let's just see if we are having the same discussion next year about whomever the new guy is or another coordinator or position coach.
If we don't get upgrades at those positions, we will most likely be having a very similar discussion.
According to some at 247, and I mean others not named Moose, we have been getting the best players that we can get. We either battle P5 teams or win the battles against our piers in the Sun Belt 90% of the time. I have never bought into this narrative but I have thought our players we are signing overall are pretty good.

If that is the case, then it is poor coaching and development but if not then what can we do to improve that?

We have had attrition due to injuries or players wanting playing time so we have missed at some spots but if we have a bunch of players going FCS and being stars, which we are, then that tells me we have a lot of talent. We have a couple former players who are likely to be named All-Americans in FCS this year, just like Bucky Williams was.

With all the bad luck from injuries and good players leaving because they did not want to wait we have become thin and are planning to hit the portal and JUCO just as hard as HS this year. If we do and bring in a 50/50 class then how can we expect to be fine if this deal with accepting credits that has held us back won't be fixed until next year, like is being rumored?

If we can't suddenly fix our issues with the portal now then how can we upgrade the talent if our issue is lack of talent? If you can hit 60% in HS recruiting then you don't need to hit the portal much if you are signing 22+ every year.

I bring this stuff up because it makes me worried we can't fix all of our issues. I have also heard that the COVID year messed us up and we had a lot of misses in that class because of it. Apparently it hit us harder than other schools in the Sun Belt for some reason.

Can we make enough upgrades, assuming our coaches aren't fully to blame? If we just get rid of a bunch of coaches then we have the other problem brought up not having continuity in our staff

I bring all this stuff up because we can have concerns and make excuses all day long but the bottom line here is that either our coaches are doing a bad job of evaluating talent and addressing injuries (we have taken injured players that work out and many who have not) or do we just have bad coaching or a mix of both?

If we make a few coaching changes and sign a ton of JUCO and portal players then it tells me Shawn has been told he is on the hot-seat and the pressure is on. Coaches don't go after those type players unless they missed badly in recruiting or are taking over and trying to turn a program around quickly not being worried about 3-4 years down the road.

We will see what happens but I fear we might be asking same questions and looking for a new coach if Shawn does not identify our issues and fix them quickly, regardless of whatever hurdles we have had. I refuse to believe we suddenly have hurdles that prevent us from beating Troy, CCU, Marshall, GSU, Texas State, etc every year with all we have done in the past and as much as we have beaten them before.
Their is one additional thing we could do. We could be doing our very best at player development but I don’t think we are. Regardless of the next recruiting class and or transfers we need to make absolutely sure we are helping the kids we have become the best athletes they can be. I really hope we are smart enough to take a very hard look at our strength and conditioning program.
Trust that it is being looked at.......
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Re: Dale Jones out - Footballscoop

Unread post by WASU 93 » Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:11 am

wb247 wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:05 pm
NattyBumppo'sRevenge wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:38 pm
wb247 wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:03 pm
t4pizza wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:05 pm
... I think we were let down far more by our lack of offensive production than our defense ...
Agreed. Defense would not have looked so bad if the offense could have spent a little more time on the field.
Maybe, but maybe our offense would have run more clock if defense would have stopped all the early scores.
Anyone have stats on the number of 3 and outs we forced versus the number of 3 and outs that our offense had forced on them? By quarter breakdown would be amazing! I have no idea, but I feel like there is at least a correlation. Similar number of 3 and outs forced when compared with time on the field in every game versus the number of 3 and outs we suffered compared with time on the field. Track that against games won. My hunch is that will show a letdown by the offense moreso than the defense.
Here you go:

UNC
1Q Score 14-7 ASU
Middle 8. 21-0 UNC
4th Q 40-22 ASU
Turnover on Downs ASU 1/UNC 0
3 and Outs UNC 1 in 1st Half/0 in 2nd. ASU 0
Turnovers 1 each
UNC 1 special teams TD
Two Failed 2 point conversions at the end of the game

Texas A&M
1Q Score 0-0
Middle 8 0-0
4th Quarter 3-0 ASU
Turnover on Downs ASU 1/T A&M 0
3 and Outs Texas A&M 2 in 1st Half/0 in 2nd. ASU 1 in 2nd Half
Turnovers Texas A&M 2/ASU 0
Texas A&M one kickoff return TD
App State runs out final 3:43 after missed FG

Troy
1Q Score 7-7
Middle 8 7-7
4th Q ASU 8-7
Turnover on Downs ASU 1/Troy 0
3 and Outs 1 each 2nd Half
Turnovers Troy 1/ASU 0
Hail Mary!

JMU
1st Q 3-0 JMU
Middle 8 7-0 JMU
4th Q 15-0 JMU
Turnover on Downs 2 Each
3 and Outs JMU 1 in First Half/2 in 2nd Half ASU 2 in 2nd Half
Turnovers 2 each
After scoring 28 in the 2nd Quarter, ASU goes Fumble, Turnover on Downs (to open the second half), 3 and Out, 3 and Out, 6 and out, Interception, 3 and Out, then turns the ball over on Downs at their own 42 yard line with 0:49 left

Texas State
1st Q 7-0 Texas State
Middle 9 minutes 14-3 Texas State
4th Q- 14-3 ASU
Turnover on Downs ASU 3/Texas State 0
3 and Outs. ASU 3 in First Half/TxSt 2 in Second Half
Turnovers ASU 2/TxSt 1
TxSt one INT return for a TD
Red Zone Pick 6 by TxSt on App's opening drive of second half gives them a 30-3 lead
Failed 4th and 14 with 7:45 left, Failed 4th and Goal with 3:14 left

Georgia State
1st Q. 14-0 GaSt
Middle 9. 7-0 ASU
4th Q 14-3 ASU
Turnover on Downs 0
3 and Outs. GaSt 2 in first half/1 in second. ASU 2 in second
Turnovers GaSt 4/ASU 1

Coastal
1Q. 14-7 Coastal
Middle 8. 7-7
4th Q 14-14
Turnover on Downs 1 each
3 and Outs Coastal 2 in 1st H, ASU 3 in 1st H
Turnovers App 2/Coastal 1
After Coastal throws INT in their end of the field, App throws INT on next play
After Coastal in stopped on downs in positive territory/App goes 4 and out and gives the ball back to Coastal. Coastal scores TD, forces another App INT one play later and scores another TD
. Chadwell limits APP to 4 second half possessions (Downs/INT/TD/TD) and then runs out the final 3:01.

Marshall
1Q 7-0 Marshall
Middle 8 7-7
4th Q 7-0 ASU
Turnover on Downs-ASU 3/Marshall 1
3 and Outs Marshall 2 in 1st H/2 in 2nd Half. ASU 3 in 1st H/1 in 2nd
Turnovers 2 each
Special Teams TD's 1 each
First half sequence. ASU 6 and out (punt)/Marshall 3 and out/ASU 3 and Out/Marshall 3 and Out/ASU 3 and Out/Marshall 3 and Out/ASU Turnover on Downs/Marshall INT/ASU INT
App stalls out at the Marshall 45 on 4th and 6 with 0:36 left

ODU
1Q 10-0 ASU
Middle 9 minutes 3-0 ASU
4th Q. 14-0 ODU (vs. ASU reserves)
Turnover on Downs-ODU 2/ASU 0
3 and outs. ODU 3 in 1st H/1 in 2nd H. ASU 1 in 1st H
Turnovers ODU 1/ASU 0

The Stink
1st Q 7-6 GaSo
Middle 8 7-6 ASU
4th Q. 7-7
Turnover on Downs ASU 2/GaSo 0
3 and Outs GaSo 2 in 1st H/1 in 2nd ASU 2 in 2nd
Missed FG at end of regulation

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Re: Dale Jones out - Footballscoop

Unread post by Saint3333 » Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:35 am

AppGrad78 wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:31 pm
A bit of raw data to aid this discussion:

Where App State finished nationally out of 131 teams:

Total offense: 26th best in the country
Rushing offense: 21st
Passing offense: 47th
Sacks allowed: 34th
Passes had intercepted: 19th

Third-down conversions: 78th
Fourth-down conversions: 72nd

Total defense: 35th best in the country
Rushing defense: 36th
Passing defense: 60th
Sacks: 46th
Interceptions: 94th

Third-down conversion stops: 101th
Fourth-down conversion stops: 62nd

Penalties: 48th

Turnover margin: 12th
Stats are skewed playing two lower level FCS opponents. 3rd down conversions (on both sides) are obvious, but the interceptions are also a HUGE dropoff from our prior five year average when we were top 5 cumulatively.

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Re: Dale Jones out - Footballscoop

Unread post by WVAPPeer » Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:52 am

Aren't 3 of those DBs during that time in the NFL? - possibly part of the reason -
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Re: Dale Jones out - Footballscoop

Unread post by Saint3333 » Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:17 am

Replacing talent is part of coaching at the college level.

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Re: Dale Jones out - Footballscoop

Unread post by Tru2ASU » Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:37 am

Let's hear some names, internally or externally, that might be a good fit for this position.

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Re: Dale Jones out - Footballscoop

Unread post by yosef69 » Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:37 am

Tru2ASU wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:37 am
Let's hear some names, internally or externally, that might be a good fit for this position.
Greg gasparato

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Re: Dale Jones out - Footballscoop

Unread post by WASU 93 » Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:57 am

WVAPPeer wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:52 am
Aren't 3 of those DBs during that time in the NFL? - possibly part of the reason -
Add in 3 from D'Marco Jackson over his final two seasons and the pass rush of Meech and Spurlin. Plus, how many near misses did Stephen Jones have this year.

We certainly struggled on the back end, but we also struggled on the front end (or really excelled on the front end in 2021):

Fumbles Recovered----2021 7 2022 13
INT's----- 2021 15 2022 7
Sacks---- 2021 37 2022 28
TFL's----2021 113--4th in Nation 2022-- 65

D''Marco had 20 TFL's individually in 2021. Meech had 13/13/10.5 over his final three seasons. When you are getting penetration up front and had a LB who is filling gaps, running down plays sideline to sideline and getting back into the passing lanes, it certainly benefits your secondary.

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Re: Dale Jones out - Footballscoop

Unread post by ASUFan4863 » Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:57 am

Gasparato may be the likely candidate if he is interested. He would help with safeties which was arguably our weakest position all year. Is it possible to somehow lure Myquan Stout back to help with DL & Strength/Conditioning? Public records show his salary as 50K in 2021. Not sure how accurate that is. There are some good coaches out there I am sure that we just don't know about as casual fans. Hopefully we get a young up and coming guy.

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Re: Dale Jones out - Footballscoop

Unread post by appstate24 » Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:20 am

yosef69 wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:37 am
Tru2ASU wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:37 am
Let's hear some names, internally or externally, that might be a good fit for this position.
Greg gasparato
Please!

GO APPS!!

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Re: Dale Jones out - Footballscoop

Unread post by NewApp » Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:24 pm

JuCo

Someone mentioned signing a ton of JuCo and portal players. Portal yes, but Juco? There aren't many Junior Colleges fielding football left except for a few community colleges out west. So JuCo... no Portal...hopefully.
I doubt we have more than a couple JuCo's on our present roster. May be wrong...wouldn't be the first time.
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Re: Dale Jones out - Footballscoop

Unread post by t4pizza » Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:34 pm

The coaches targeted JUCO because they are being over looked now that there is a portal. All teams are recruiting the portal but the JUCO guys are being ignored. Our coaches think they found a gold mine that others are overlooking. Time will tell if the JUCO gamble pays off or not.

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Re: Dale Jones out - Footballscoop

Unread post by MrCraig » Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:02 pm

NewApp wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:24 pm
JuCo

Someone mentioned signing a ton of JuCo and portal players. Portal yes, but Juco? There aren't many Junior Colleges fielding football left except for a few community colleges out west. So JuCo... no Portal...hopefully.
I doubt we have more than a couple JuCo's on our present roster. May be wrong...wouldn't be the first time.
You're right that there aren't many junior colleges left with football programs. However, there's a long list of JuCo players who have transferred to D1 football and been successful. There's a decent amount of JuCo players who are there because they didn't get picked up in the transfer portal, didn't have the grades at their previous school, etc. Have you watched Last Chance U on Netflix. It's an interesting look into the world of JuCo football.

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