I know many on here are calling for Dale to get canned, I am not and this post is not about that. What i want to see is what everyone thinks are the real issues with our defense. In my eyes, it all starts and ends with our D Ends. I am not calling out any particular players but rather the position as a whole. We lost both of our ends last year, each had been a fixture as a starter but it doesn't seem like the replacements are up to the challenge currently. Yes, we generally do well in run defense. It is the pass defense that has me worried. We have not been able to get backfield pressure in passing plays from our D Ends all season. The only time we get pressure is when Dale brings the Linebackers on a blitz and we all know that leaves a hole in the defense. It is a risk/ reward play but the ONLY way we ever get backfield pressure on pass plays. I really wonder why we haven't been able to develop the plyers to step up when the starters leave (this has not been an issue at other positions). I don't think it is the coaching considering that coach transformed Meech into an NFL player and has a super bowl ring. I just don't think we have recruited the talent that can get home when we need it. The best DC in the world can't be successful if the Defensive Ends don't have the ability to get home. If we can not get our D Ends to get pressure in passing downs, our defense will not be able to stop anyone and it will be a long season. No DB can keep coverage up indefinitely, I know we also have had issues with tackling that has lead to big games and scores but i really think it all starts and ends with our Defensive Ends. We have to get improved player there.

I sit in front of a d back from 2010-2013. I have asked him a few questions and hopefully I can paraphrase his comments accurately enough. And some of what he has said is speculation on his part as well so take all of this for message board banter.

The zone D is likely being played over a man to man due to the speed of our d backfield. The zone can work IF penetration is quick and that keeps the opposing QB from having time to spot an open receiver that is likely to happen running a zone D.

Basically we need penetration for the D to work.

This is likely nothing new to those that coaches and into deep strategy and not calling for "go for it" on 3rd down.

I’m starting to think it’s a talent issue. Safeties and D Line have put tremendous pressure on linebackers and Corners to cover the holes

Why did our corners play so far off JMU receivers in second half? We had no answers to their pass game. And why dont we have a spy on a running QB? He ate us up.

McLeansvilleAppFan wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:41 pm

I sit in front of a d back from 2010-2013. I have asked him a few questions and hopefully I can paraphrase his comments accurately enough. And some of what he has said is speculation on his part as well so take all of this for message board banter.

The zone D is likely being played over a man to man due to the speed of our d backfield. The zone can work IF penetration is quick and that keeps the opposing QB from having time to spot an open receiver that is likely to happen running a zone D.

Basically we need penetration for the D to work.

This is likely nothing new to those that coaches and into deep strategy and not calling for "go for it" on 3rd down.

Coaches I have spoken to have told me the same thing about zone defense. If you have great speed you plan man but if you are a little slower you mask the speed deficiency by playing zone. Games are won up front no matter how good the skill guys are. Even in college a NFL caliber QB can't find the NFL caliber WR if he is quickly put on his back. Zone is helped greatly by a good pass rush. Even with great speed you can only expect so long for the speedy CB covering in man to blanket his guy. Give a QB 10 seconds in the pocket and someone is bound to get open, even by luck.

Defense? Heck we all know the defense is suspect at best... Let's talk about the offense that went and hid in the closet for the second half of the game.

Defensive line is too small.

/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:06 pm

Defensive line is too small.

I raised that question before the season stated after looking at the roster and projected depth chart. The 6'3" 245 lb ends on the 3-4 aren't going to move many 300 lb dudes out of the play.

Playing not to lose in the 2nd half is what cost us the game.

AppGrad1 wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:38 pm

Playing not to lose in the 2nd half is what cost us the game.

Yes, but the defense has been questionable before today's game.

bigdaddyg wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:33 pm

/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:06 pm

Defensive line is too small.

I raised that question before the season stated after looking at the roster and projected depth chart. The 6'3" 245 lb ends on the 3-4 aren't going to move many 300 lb dudes out of the play.

Exactly. In a successful 3-4 it's usually guys closer to the 275-290 range for DE, then the outside linebackers are the 240 lbs. players coming off the edge.

If we had done anything offensively in the second half , anything.....

/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:51 pm

bigdaddyg wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:33 pm

/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:06 pm

Defensive line is too small.

I raised that question before the season stated after looking at the roster and projected depth chart. The 6'3" 245 lb ends on the 3-4 aren't going to move many 300 lb dudes out of the play.

Exactly. In a successful 3-4 it's usually guys closer to the 275-290 range for DE, then the outside linebackers are the 240 lbs. players coming off the edge.

I mean we’ve run a successful 3-4 with much smaller linemen then we have now

McLeansvilleAppFan wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:41 pm

I sit in front of a d back from 2010-2013. I have asked him a few questions and hopefully I can paraphrase his comments accurately enough. And some of what he has said is speculation on his part as well so take all of this for message board banter.

The zone D is likely being played over a man to man due to the speed of our d backfield. The zone can work IF penetration is quick and that keeps the opposing QB from having time to spot an open receiver that is likely to happen running a zone D.

Basically we need penetration for the D to work.

This is likely nothing new to those that coaches and into deep strategy and not calling for "go for it" on 3rd down.

Exactly this. We don't have anybody getting a lot of playing time right now that can consistently win 1 on 1 battles outside of Hampton and McLeod. Teams realize that and are putting those players either in coverage with motion and/or blocking with a double team.

We have players recruited to play a zone and are forced to play man because of this. The reason the zone worked against A&M is because their QB is not a great passer. We were able to sit back in zone and read his eyes.

The reason we didn't spy on the QB as much as some would like is because that takes a LB away from guarding the TE. They run 12 personnel a lot with two TE and both can catch and run after -- as we witnessed. As soon as they hit a couple of those, we had to take the spy away. Between that and having to go man a lot because of lack of pass rush, the QB had open lanes.

Football is a very easy sport in hindsight. I don't think we got out coached today. I think we got out schemed. If JMU does not fumble early in the game (neither of which were from amazing plays by us), they run away with this game.

As soon as JMU stopped shooting themselves in the foot and started the delayed blitzes, we had no answers. Their offensive scheme is what hurts our defense. Typically, we have the horses to make the adjustments. We simply don't right now. Secondary is extremely thin and front 7 are missing out on elite pass rushers. When our best pass rushers also have to play pass coverage in certain alignments (and teams have figured that out), it goes down hill.

Coming out of FCS they have better athletes?

Stonewall wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:44 pm

Coming out of FCS they have better athletes?

Transfer portal

BallantyneApp wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:39 pm

/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:51 pm

bigdaddyg wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:33 pm

/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:06 pm

Defensive line is too small.

I raised that question before the season stated after looking at the roster and projected depth chart. The 6'3" 245 lb ends on the 3-4 aren't going to move many 300 lb dudes out of the play.

Exactly. In a successful 3-4 it's usually guys closer to the 275-290 range for DE, then the outside linebackers are the 240 lbs. players coming off the edge.

I mean we’ve run a successful 3-4 with much smaller linemen then we have now

You're correct and I probably worded my point incorrectly, but was it years we consistently played teams with large offensive lines? Also was it attributed to the defensive line as much as it was the linebackers? Blair and Taylor both weighed over 270 and they did well controlling their area of the line. Watched Spurlin get blasted off the line quite often last year.

Just based off the eye test over the years it feels like almost every game I watch our line is outsized and it shows at times during the game.

app97 wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:51 pm

Stonewall wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:44 pm

Coming out of FCS they have better athletes?

Transfer portal

Their leading receivers were recruited directly to JMU while still FCS, and the other transferred from the powerhouse program (sarcasm) of Monmouth.

Their leading rusher had zero touches this season coming into today's game and still managed to lead all rushers on the day with 85 yards. And he too was recruited directly by JMU.

Their entire defense with the exception of the beast from Marshall and a transfer from VMI and Maine were all recruited directly to JMU.

Their offensive line all recruited directly to JMU.

Guess you could point to their QB, but he was contained for the most part. His biggest heart breaking plays against us were with his feet.

Did the transfer portal help a bit? Sure. Will it make the FCS to FBS transition a little smoother? Likely. But the players we faced today were not some highly recruited 4-5 star transfers.

I'm not sure what has transpired within our offensive game planning
I got the sense that with the lead that the plan was to pound them and eat clock and wear them down and it wasn't working. I believe I heard David say that Chase was something like 11-13 but we stopped passing and he got out of rhythm. Very disappointed in the play calling

/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:23 pm

app97 wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:51 pm

Stonewall wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:44 pm

Coming out of FCS they have better athletes?

Transfer portal

Their leading receivers were recruited directly to JMU while still FCS, and the other transferred from the powerhouse program (sarcasm) of Monmouth.

Their leading rusher had zero touches this season coming into today's game and still managed to lead all rushers on the day with 85 yards. And he too was recruited directly by JMU.

Their entire defense with the exception of the beast from Marshall and a transfer from VMI and Maine were all recruited directly to JMU.

Their offensive line all recruited directly to JMU.

Guess you could point to their QB, but he was contained for the most part. His biggest heart breaking plays against us were with his feet.

Did the transfer portal help a bit? Sure. Will it make the FCS to FBS transition a little smoother? Likely. But the players we faced today were not some highly recruited 4-5 star transfers.

Stonewall mentioned “athletes”, so I was referring to having a stable of good athletes for the transition, and I see quite a few players from p5 conferences on their roster. Everything you mentioned, though, was a result of them beating our arse in the trenches, which also has a lot to do with coaching/scheme and effort.