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CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year

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Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year

Unread post by APPdiesel » Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:10 am

bigdaddyg wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:42 pm
Meant to add this earlier. If a person had to pay the equivalent of a ticket to watch their team play on TV I wonder how many would pony up? Almost like a PPV deal. If my choices were go to the game or pay $50 I'd still have to do some thinking. I'd save the added costs but admittedly I'm used to either free or ESPN plus- spoiled I'll admit it.
4 months of ESPN+ x $15 a month does equal a game ticket to watch App play on TV, you just happen to get a ton of extra content with it. PPV is a TERRIBLE idea and would absolutely decimate viewership numbers and limit it to just App fans. We want casual fans and conference mates’ fans to be able to tune in as well.

A lot of people here on this board (not you bigdaddyg) keep shouting “give give give” “donate donate donate”. While that is a noble cause the reality is it’s not feasible for a lot of people because of all the reasons stated in this podcast. Doug Gillin and the staff need to bear that in mind. They need to find ways to cut prices for fans rather than “add amenities” which secretly means “raise prices by adding bells and whistles”. It’s a legitimate concern.

Add to that the (what I would call) shady ways Yosef club requires you to give X to get Y (like a parking pass in a particular lot), but giving the minimum at a particular donation level doesn’t necessarily guarantee you’ll get it so you should probably give more…it’s off putting and prices people out.

That’s literally what the YC rep told us this year. “First you have to buy season tickets. Then you have to donate at the X level to get a parking pass, but it’s competitive so you should probably give more than that if you want to *guarantee* a parking space.” Bag that!! We had 3 people in our tailgate group of 6 or 7 who have been tailgating for 15 years flat out say “it’s not worth it”. That’s a story that should really concern Doug Gillin.
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Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year

Unread post by bigdaddyg » Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:44 am

APPdiesel wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:10 am
bigdaddyg wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:42 pm
Meant to add this earlier. If a person had to pay the equivalent of a ticket to watch their team play on TV I wonder how many would pony up? Almost like a PPV deal. If my choices were go to the game or pay $50 I'd still have to do some thinking. I'd save the added costs but admittedly I'm used to either free or ESPN plus- spoiled I'll admit it.
4 months of ESPN+ x $15 a month does equal a game ticket to watch App play on TV, you just happen to get a ton of extra content with it. PPV is a TERRIBLE idea and would absolutely decimate viewership numbers and limit it to just App fans. We want casual fans and conference mates’ fans to be able to tune in as well.

A lot of people here on this board (not you bigdaddyg) keep shouting “give give give” “donate donate donate”. While that is a noble cause the reality is it’s not feasible for a lot of people because of all the reasons stated in this podcast. Doug Gillin and the staff need to bear that in mind. They need to find ways to cut prices for fans rather than “add amenities” which secretly means “raise prices by adding bells and whistles”. It’s a legitimate concern.

Add to that the (what I would call) shady ways Yosef club requires you to give X to get Y (like a parking pass in a particular lot), but giving the minimum at a particular donation level doesn’t necessarily guarantee you’ll get it so you should probably give more…it’s off putting and prices people out.

That’s literally what the YC rep told us this year. “First you have to buy season tickets. Then you have to donate at the X level to get a parking pass, but it’s competitive so you should probably give more than that if you want to *guarantee* a parking space.” Bag that!! We had 3 people in our tailgate group of 6 or 7 who have been tailgating for 15 years flat out say “it’s not worth it”. That’s a story that should really concern Doug Gillin.
I was absolutely NOT advocating a PPV. I was asking IF the cost to watch a game on TV theoretically equaled the cost of a ticket would that reduce viewership? We get to sit at home and watch a game on huge high definition TV's, out of the elements and for many, save lots of money otherwise spent on gas, hotels, food and of course the actual ticket price. The hardcore App fans (like most of us on this board) need to remember that a huge percentage of graduates don't live and die with App State football.

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Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year

Unread post by EastHallApp » Sat Jun 11, 2022 11:31 am

AppSt94 wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:30 am
The kids being different is the part that I have trouble with. As engaged as our students are during games, I am genuinely perplexed as to why that doesn’t transfer over into post graduate involvement at a greater volume.
Off the top of my head, I have to think a big factor is where our alumni live. A very small percentage are going to stay in or around Boone after they graduate. Always going to be tougher to get people to drive 2-3 hours or more than it is if they're local. So you either stop coming to games or pick one or two per year to attend, in which case you don't need to donate to YC to get single-game tickets (other than the occasional Miami/Wake/UNC outlier) because for most games supply is greater than demand.

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Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year

Unread post by EastHallApp » Sat Jun 11, 2022 11:36 am

APPdiesel wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:10 am
bigdaddyg wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:42 pm
Meant to add this earlier. If a person had to pay the equivalent of a ticket to watch their team play on TV I wonder how many would pony up? Almost like a PPV deal. If my choices were go to the game or pay $50 I'd still have to do some thinking. I'd save the added costs but admittedly I'm used to either free or ESPN plus- spoiled I'll admit it.
4 months of ESPN+ x $15 a month does equal a game ticket to watch App play on TV, you just happen to get a ton of extra content with it. PPV is a TERRIBLE idea and would absolutely decimate viewership numbers and limit it to just App fans. We want casual fans and conference mates’ fans to be able to tune in as well.

A lot of people here on this board (not you bigdaddyg) keep shouting “give give give” “donate donate donate”. While that is a noble cause the reality is it’s not feasible for a lot of people because of all the reasons stated in this podcast. Doug Gillin and the staff need to bear that in mind. They need to find ways to cut prices for fans rather than “add amenities” which secretly means “raise prices by adding bells and whistles”. It’s a legitimate concern.

Add to that the (what I would call) shady ways Yosef club requires you to give X to get Y (like a parking pass in a particular lot), but giving the minimum at a particular donation level doesn’t necessarily guarantee you’ll get it so you should probably give more…it’s off putting and prices people out.

That’s literally what the YC rep told us this year. “First you have to buy season tickets. Then you have to donate at the X level to get a parking pass, but it’s competitive so you should probably give more than that if you want to *guarantee* a parking space.” Bag that!! We had 3 people in our tailgate group of 6 or 7 who have been tailgating for 15 years flat out say “it’s not worth it”. That’s a story that should really concern Doug Gillin.
The things you're describing are a) standard at any college athletics booster club, and b) some of the few tangible incentives the YC offers people for donating.

I'm sure it's frustrating to see the financial bar raised to get the same benefits you've been enjoying, but what do you expect to happen as the YC gets more donors/larger donations for a finite number of prime seats and parking spots?

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Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Sat Jun 11, 2022 11:47 am

Schools may come out of this ok or they may have sold their souls to the devil for that TV money. It is good money but long term it may drive away fans from the stadiums and then away from being fans when they do not get to experience the games in-person. Couple that with more expensive tickets and some are just going to balk at attending. I certainly can't make every game and make no apologies for that. If tickets were cheaper it would certainly help me get to Boone, but there are other costs in attending a game, so it is not just ticket prices. Someone has to pay the coaches and AD salaries and it can't be completely on the backs of the students with fees, and I am sure that is part of the ticket prices going up and at some point that will price some people out of the market.

Hopefully the formula continues to work for Appalachian and the rest of the Sun Belt but certainly Appalachian.
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Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year

Unread post by Stonewall » Sat Jun 11, 2022 1:00 pm

There is a concern that gasoline prices will have a negative impact on attendance especially, the non-conference games.

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Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Sat Jun 11, 2022 1:14 pm

Stonewall wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 1:00 pm
There is a concern that gasoline prices will have a negative impact on attendance especially, the non-conference games.
Good time to remind everyone of Mountaineer Express East-West that runs from Greensboro to Boone and

https://sunwaycharters.com/wp-content/u ... hure-1.pdf

Mountaineer Express North-South that runs from Charlotte to Boone. Though this route does not work for football

https://sunwaycharters.com/wp-content/u ... hure-1.pdf
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Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year

Unread post by APPdiesel » Sat Jun 11, 2022 2:37 pm

EastHallApp wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 11:36 am
The things you're describing are a) standard at any college athletics booster club, and b) some of the few tangible incentives the YC offers people for donating.

I'm sure it's frustrating to see the financial bar raised to get the same benefits you've been enjoying, but what do you expect to happen as the YC gets more donors/larger donations for a finite number of prime seats and parking spots?
Standard or not, it has in impact and I have tangible anecdotal evidence of long-time every-week type fans saying “it’s not worth it anymore” which results in 3 unsold tickets, 3 unsold hot dogs, 3 unsold sodas, etc etc. Additionally most of us remember when many lots were free on a first-come-first-served basis, having since watched those free lots get gobbled up by YC requiring you to pay (a lot) for something that used to be free. My point here is just because there is a potential for a revenue stream doesn’t mean you HAVE TO exploit it.

Apologies to bigdaddyg for misinterpreting what you were saying about the PPV.
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Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year

Unread post by BambooRdApp » Sat Jun 11, 2022 4:52 pm

IMO, In our case, yes, the university does need to capitalize on the opportunity to charge for parking. Every $ counts to support athletics especially since our YC membership is not up to par it appears to our competition. Sure, some will make an economic decision to not attend, etc.
It will be interesting to see how attendance plays out this year during a recessionary economic environment.
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Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year

Unread post by huskie3 » Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:25 pm

Is there a parking lot for workers, athletic and Yosef staff?
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Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year

Unread post by NewApp » Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:34 pm

BambooRdApp wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 4:52 pm
IMO, In our case, yes, the university does need to capitalize on the opportunity to charge for parking. Every $ counts to support athletics especially since our YC membership is not up to par it appears to our competition. Sure, some will make an economic decision to not attend, etc.
It will be interesting to see how attendance plays out this year during a recessionary economic environment.
It's been over 50 years since I took Economics at App, so I need to ask a question. What definition of recessionary are you using? Unemployment is almost at an all time low. 3.6%. Unfilled job positions are causing many problems and challenges. We seem to have more jobs available than we have people to fill them. Inflation is a huge problem but part of that is that demand exceeds supply.

Please explain.
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Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year

Unread post by appst89 » Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:55 pm

Inflation 8.6%
Real wages down
Shrinking GDP
Rising interest rates
Home sales contracting
Stock market down nearly 20%

We are not technically in a recession yet, but all the indicators are there. So yes, recessionary is an accurate descriptor of the current economic conditions.

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Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year

Unread post by AppWyo » Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:30 pm

Stonewall wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 1:00 pm
There is a concern that gasoline prices will have a negative impact on attendance especially, the non-conference games.
The impact may be that more conferences take a closer look at regionality of games to lesson the cost of travel... I am sure that ECU and UNCC are is looking at that. They may be the next members of Sunbelt East...

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Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:44 pm

appst89 wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:55 pm
Inflation 8.6%
Real wages down
Shrinking GDP
Rising interest rates
Home sales contracting
Stock market down nearly 20%

We are not technically in a recession yet, but all the indicators are there. So yes, recessionary is an accurate descriptor of the current economic conditions.
Ask the strippers. That seems to be a good indicator if a recession is in the near future.
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Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year

Unread post by APPdiesel » Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:25 am

AppWyo wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:30 pm
Stonewall wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 1:00 pm
There is a concern that gasoline prices will have a negative impact on attendance especially, the non-conference games.
The impact may be that more conferences take a closer look at regionality of games to lesson the cost of travel... I am sure that ECU and UNCC are is looking at that. They may be the next members of Sunbelt East...
Not to make this a realignment thread, but it has been interesting to watch the expansion strategies even in just the G5 over the past 10 years.

Sunbelt’s strategy has always been “get more regional, build rivalries, save money”
CUSA’s was expand the footprint, get bigger, then shifted dramatically to copy the Sunbelt’s strategy, then went into “oh bleep” survival mode.
AAC’s has always been “just be in the big marketz and damn the consequences”.

The AACs strategy will bite them in the arse the exact same way it bit CUSA.
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Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year

Unread post by bigdaddyg » Sun Jun 12, 2022 1:47 pm

APPdiesel wrote:
Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:25 am
AppWyo wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:30 pm
Stonewall wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 1:00 pm
There is a concern that gasoline prices will have a negative impact on attendance especially, the non-conference games.
The impact may be that more conferences take a closer look at regionality of games to lesson the cost of travel... I am sure that ECU and UNCC are is looking at that. They may be the next members of Sunbelt East...
Not to make this a realignment thread, but it has been interesting to watch the expansion strategies even in just the G5 over the past 10 years.

Sunbelt’s strategy has always been “get more regional, build rivalries, save money”
CUSA’s was expand the footprint, get bigger, then shifted dramatically to copy the Sunbelt’s strategy, then went into “oh bleep” survival mode.
AAC’s has always been “just be in the big marketz and damn the consequences”.

The AACs strategy will bite them in the arse the exact same way it bit CUSA.
The AAC fancied themselves as the number 6 power conference. Maybe they were briefly (very briefly) and now it's completely different. It never seemed feasible to me for App to travel so far for sports especially the non-revenue ones. Nearly every conference foe was never going to approach a rivalry. Now we will have several great potential matchups every year with Coastal, Stink, Marshall, ODU and JMU. I'd be fine playing Charlotte and ECU most years and sprinkle in a Carolina or Wake. Personally I'm at a point where playing even a Texas A&M means very little except for the paycheck.

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Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year

Unread post by CoachRob » Sun Jun 12, 2022 5:17 pm

NewApp wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:34 pm
BambooRdApp wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 4:52 pm
IMO, In our case, yes, the university does need to capitalize on the opportunity to charge for parking. Every $ counts to support athletics especially since our YC membership is not up to par it appears to our competition. Sure, some will make an economic decision to not attend, etc.
It will be interesting to see how attendance plays out this year during a recessionary economic environment.
It's been over 50 years since I took Economics at App, so I need to ask a question. What definition of recessionary are you using? Unemployment is almost at an all time low. 3.6%. Unfilled job positions are causing many problems and challenges. We seem to have more jobs available than we have people to fill them. Inflation is a huge problem but part of that is that demand exceeds supply.

Please explain.
This is a very tricky stat to use for the state of the economy. Unemployment is defined as people ACTIVELY looking for work. A person can be "unemployed", but if they are not actively looking for work, they are not counted in the unemployment statistic. Unfilled job positions are truly causing many challenges, and we have the people to fill them. However, many just aren't working, for numerous different reasons.

I'm afraid all of this will have a negative effect on college sports in the near future.

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Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year

Unread post by spacemonkey » Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:07 pm

AppSt94 wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:30 am
The kids being different is the part that I have trouble with. As engaged as our students are during games, I am genuinely perplexed as to why that doesn’t transfer over into post graduate involvement at a greater volume.
The game is free when you are a student...It cost real money after you graduate. I have said it 100 times and it will take a little time but CFB is headed the way of Nascar. Nascar thought fans would pay anything to see a race. I do think App is in a great location where there is not much competition in the western part of the state to spend money on but ESPN+ sure does make it tempting to stay home. You have to be winning in college sports or your attendance is going to drop.

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Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:25 pm

spacemonkey wrote:
Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:07 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:30 am
The kids being different is the part that I have trouble with. As engaged as our students are during games, I am genuinely perplexed as to why that doesn’t transfer over into post graduate involvement at a greater volume.
The game is free when you are a student...
I think a better way to say it is "prepaid through student fees." It certainly is not costing students money at the gate, but they are paying actually a pretty good ticket price if one considers the fees they pay and the number of paid events available (and I am sure no student is going to every football, men's and women's basketball and baseball game and wrestling match). A handful might be getting close to that but not many, and I would wonder about their grades and what their major is as well if they have that much free time. That might actually make a good graduate school research area for a Masters of Doctoral degree.

If one considers many might be taking out loans and the years it might take to pay those loans off they are paying for tickets for years after graduation. And with the interest on the loans along with the principal and they are likely paying enough to purchase current year season tickets in a few sports. Their parents might be as well.

This is getting deep in the weeds in a manner but it is part of all the economics of young alumni, their parents, having disposable income or not and where that disposable income is going.
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Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year

Unread post by spacemonkey » Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:08 pm

I would argue their fees are more associated with marketing Appalachian State through sports. Hopefully making their degrees worth more but I get your point. Most make a decision based on total cost not costs if I didn't have to pay those fees.

I do think their student fees get a big bang for the cost. Thanks to the success of our football team.

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