2022 App State Coaching Updates

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Re: 2022 App State Coaching Updates

Unread post by Yosef84 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:40 am

I have seen questions thrown out about Cardwell at OL coach, and last year I felt this might have been an issue (learning curve) but I don't think the OL was an issue this year. I'm FAR from an expert so I cannot say how talented Cardwell is at OL coach, but I do believe he's a good coach and I know our HC knows a thing or two about coaching OL so I'll trust him to make this decision. None of that is to say that some of the above ideas aren't good ones. I just don't think there is an urgent need for a different OL coach.

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Re: 2022 App State Coaching Updates

Unread post by AppSt94 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:44 am

Yosef84 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:40 am
I have seen questions thrown out about Cardwell at OL coach, and last year I felt this might have been an issue (learning curve) but I don't think the OL was an issue this year. I'm FAR from an expert so I cannot say how talented Cardwell is at OL coach, but I do believe he's a good coach and I know our HC knows a thing or two about coaching OL so I'll trust him to make this decision. None of that is to say that some of the above ideas aren't good ones. I just don't think there is an urgent need for a different OL coach.
I’m pretty much of the same opinion on Cardwell.

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Re: 2022 App State Coaching Updates

Unread post by Stonewall » Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:33 am

UL handled our OL as did Southern . .I didn't see a lot of improvement through the year.If we want championships it will have to improve .

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Re: 2022 App State Coaching Updates

Unread post by AppGrad78 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:41 am

Let me make sure I’m understanding this:

App ranked 11th in the country this year in sacks allowed. That’s with a largely immobile quarterback who tends to milk every last ounce of time in the pocket before giving up on a play.

App finished 33rd in the country in rushing yards, including another 1,000-yard carrier.

App finished 29th in the country in total offense.

So what am I missing here? A couple of people on a message board think the offensive line coach should be replaced? Really?

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Re: 2022 App State Coaching Updates

Unread post by mike87 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:51 am

AppGrad78 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:41 am
Let me make sure I’m understanding this:

App ranked 11th in the country this year in sacks allowed. That’s with a largely immobile quarterback who tends to milk every last ounce of time in the pocket before giving up on a play.

App finished 33rd in the country in rushing yards, including another 1,000-yard carrier.

App finished 29th in the country in total offense.

So what am I missing here? A couple of people on a message board think the offensive line coach should be replaced? Really?
Don't be bringing your facts into the discussion :lol:

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Re: 2022 App State Coaching Updates

Unread post by NattyBumppo'sRevenge » Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:54 am

Our WR coach left. We have an outstanding WR coach on staff coaching TE’s. We have a former TE and TE coach coaching OLine. Had Pat not left, I’d not be advocating for a new oline coach, but let’s put guys where they have the most experience and hire someone familiar with our offense and oline scheme. Also, our goal shouldn’t be top 35 in offense, we should be much higher considering some of the SunBelt competition.

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Re: 2022 App State Coaching Updates

Unread post by AppSt94 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:04 am

NattyBumppo'sRevenge wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:54 am
Our WR coach left. We have an outstanding WR coach on staff coaching TE’s. We have a former TE and TE coach coaching OLine. Had Pat not left, I’d not be advocating for a new oline coach, but let’s put guys where they have the most experience and hire someone familiar with our offense and oline scheme. Also, our goal shouldn’t be top 35 in offense, we should be much higher considering some of the SunBelt competition.
Do you have anyone in mind?

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Re: 2022 App State Coaching Updates

Unread post by WVAPPeer » Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:13 am

AppGrad78 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:41 am
Let me make sure I’m understanding this:

App ranked 11th in the country this year in sacks allowed. That’s with a largely immobile quarterback who tends to milk every last ounce of time in the pocket before giving up on a play.

App finished 33rd in the country in rushing yards, including another 1,000-yard carrier.

App finished 29th in the country in total offense.

So what am I missing here? A couple of people on a message board think the offensive line coach should be replaced? Really?
Yes - let me add this for the haters who don't bother with facts - don't even try to find the information needed -
https://appstatesports.com/news/2021/11 ... alist.aspx

BOONE, N.C. — App State's offensive line has been named one of 13 semifinalists for the Joe Moore Award, which is given annually to the top offensive line in college football.

With finalists being named Dec. 7, the other semifinalists come from Air Force, Arkansas, Baylor, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Oregon, Oregon State and Wisconsin. App State has been recognized as a top-15 line nationally by the Joe Moore Award in three of the last four seasons.
Coached by Nic Cardwell, a six-man rotation up front features center Baer Hunter, right tackle Cooper Hodges, left tackle Anderson Hardy and three guards: Damion Daley, Isaiah Helms and Luke Smith.
"Montani Semper Liberi"

The Dude Abides!!!

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Re: 2022 App State Coaching Updates

Unread post by EastHallApp » Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:19 am

NattyBumppo'sRevenge wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:54 am
Our WR coach left. We have an outstanding WR coach on staff coaching TE’s. We have a former TE and TE coach coaching OLine. Had Pat not left, I’d not be advocating for a new oline coach, but let’s put guys where they have the most experience and hire someone familiar with our offense and oline scheme. Also, our goal shouldn’t be top 35 in offense, we should be much higher considering some of the SunBelt competition.
We also had a whole bunch of vets on that offense the last couple years who were already proven before the new staff came in under Clark (and even before Drink in some cases).

Did those vets improve, or at least maintain their level of play, that they showed under previous coaches? And have younger players developed at the necessary pace to step in when needed?

I'm not an expert either, but I think those are some questions the WR group faced, and they apply to other groups as well.

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Re: 2022 App State Coaching Updates

Unread post by AppSt94 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:29 am

Tbatchelor1977 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:23 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:20 am
I’ll throw another situational possibility out there. What do ya’ll think of Watts @ WR, Haines moves to TE and we hire a RBs coach.
Does this leave Cardwell at OL? I do not know whether he is a good, bad, average OL coach. Seems to be a recurring theme in YC with this thread and some others that we need help in this area from a coaching standpoint. I do not know whether he is or isn't. I will leave that to folks that are more in the know so to speak.
I don’t see the glaring issues with the OL that some do. Is Cardwell a good coach? He seems to be. The kids like playing for him. The thing is that outside Ponce being locked in as the QB coach, we have three guys in Watts, Cardwell, and Haines that allow Clark to go out and get the best OL, TE, or RB coach that our resources allow. Does Ware take an on field role? Does he want it? Does Clark want him on the field versus where he is? There are a lot of ways that this could go.

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Re: 2022 App State Coaching Updates

Unread post by ASUchipman » Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:41 am

Mario Aciteli is available. He has experience.

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Re: 2022 App State Coaching Updates

Unread post by appst1992 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:45 am

AppGrad78 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:41 am
Let me make sure I’m understanding this:

App ranked 11th in the country this year in sacks allowed. That’s with a largely immobile quarterback who tends to milk every last ounce of time in the pocket before giving up on a play.

App finished 33rd in the country in rushing yards, including another 1,000-yard carrier.

App finished 29th in the country in total offense.

So what am I missing here? A couple of people on a message board think the offensive line coach should be replaced? Really?
In comparison, here are the rankings for total defense of our opponents:
#22 ULL
#24 Troy
#25 Coastal
#40 So Alabama
#75 Miami
#79 Marshall
#80 ECU
#83 Ga State
#109 Western KY
#110 Ga Southern
#112 ULM
#129 Ark State
#66 Elon (FCS ranking)

We struggled in a lot of games this year controlling the LOS. I don't think anyone could argue that there were many games we could not establish the run and fortunately had a pretty good QB and WR's that could save us with the passing game. We had the same issue last year, and that was with a VERY veteran OL.

Stats are stats. From what I saw this year and last year, I think we could have better play on the OL.

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Re: 2022 App State Coaching Updates

Unread post by AppSt94 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:51 am

appst1992 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:45 am
AppGrad78 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:41 am
Let me make sure I’m understanding this:

App ranked 11th in the country this year in sacks allowed. That’s with a largely immobile quarterback who tends to milk every last ounce of time in the pocket before giving up on a play.

App finished 33rd in the country in rushing yards, including another 1,000-yard carrier.

App finished 29th in the country in total offense.

So what am I missing here? A couple of people on a message board think the offensive line coach should be replaced? Really?
In comparison, here are the rankings for total defense of our opponents:
#22 ULL
#24 Troy
#25 Coastal
#40 So Alabama
#75 Miami
#79 Marshall
#80 ECU
#83 Ga State
#109 Western KY
#110 Ga Southern
#112 ULM
#129 Ark State
#66 Elon (FCS ranking)

We struggled in a lot of games this year controlling the LOS. I don't think anyone could argue that there were many games we could not establish the run and fortunately had a pretty good QB and WR's that could save us with the passing game. We had the same issue last year, and that was with a VERY veteran OL.

Stats are stats. From what I saw this year and last year, I think we could have better play on the OL.
We also had a first year play caller as well. It’s like Clark says. It’s different when you are in charge. As an assistant, you have input. As the head man, you make decisions.

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Re: 2022 App State Coaching Updates

Unread post by appst1992 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:01 pm

AppSt94 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:51 am
appst1992 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:45 am
AppGrad78 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:41 am
Let me make sure I’m understanding this:

App ranked 11th in the country this year in sacks allowed. That’s with a largely immobile quarterback who tends to milk every last ounce of time in the pocket before giving up on a play.

App finished 33rd in the country in rushing yards, including another 1,000-yard carrier.

App finished 29th in the country in total offense.

So what am I missing here? A couple of people on a message board think the offensive line coach should be replaced? Really?
In comparison, here are the rankings for total defense of our opponents:
#22 ULL
#24 Troy
#25 Coastal
#40 So Alabama
#75 Miami
#79 Marshall
#80 ECU
#83 Ga State
#109 Western KY
#110 Ga Southern
#112 ULM
#129 Ark State
#66 Elon (FCS ranking)

We struggled in a lot of games this year controlling the LOS. I don't think anyone could argue that there were many games we could not establish the run and fortunately had a pretty good QB and WR's that could save us with the passing game. We had the same issue last year, and that was with a VERY veteran OL.

Stats are stats. From what I saw this year and last year, I think we could have better play on the OL.
We also had a first year play caller as well. It’s like Clark says. It’s different when you are in charge. As an assistant, you have input. As the head man, you make decisions.
True, and there were certainly some questionable play calls. But, from what I saw there was a lot of execution issues on those play calls.

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Re: 2022 App State Coaching Updates

Unread post by AppSt94 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:11 pm

appst1992 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:01 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:51 am
appst1992 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:45 am
AppGrad78 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:41 am
Let me make sure I’m understanding this:

App ranked 11th in the country this year in sacks allowed. That’s with a largely immobile quarterback who tends to milk every last ounce of time in the pocket before giving up on a play.

App finished 33rd in the country in rushing yards, including another 1,000-yard carrier.

App finished 29th in the country in total offense.

So what am I missing here? A couple of people on a message board think the offensive line coach should be replaced? Really?
In comparison, here are the rankings for total defense of our opponents:
#22 ULL
#24 Troy
#25 Coastal
#40 So Alabama
#75 Miami
#79 Marshall
#80 ECU
#83 Ga State
#109 Western KY
#110 Ga Southern
#112 ULM
#129 Ark State
#66 Elon (FCS ranking)

We struggled in a lot of games this year controlling the LOS. I don't think anyone could argue that there were many games we could not establish the run and fortunately had a pretty good QB and WR's that could save us with the passing game. We had the same issue last year, and that was with a VERY veteran OL.

Stats are stats. From what I saw this year and last year, I think we could have better play on the OL.
We also had a first year play caller as well. It’s like Clark says. It’s different when you are in charge. As an assistant, you have input. As the head man, you make decisions.
True, and there were certainly some questionable play calls. But, from what I saw there was a lot of execution issues on those play calls.
Sure. It just seems short-sided to blame them primarily on the line. Especially an OL group that was nationally recognized.

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Re: 2022 App State Coaching Updates

Unread post by AtlAppMan » Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:36 pm

Stats are facts BUT I will agree with some on this thread that it was apparent in some of the games with that our OL was not at same level as other team. For example, UL and WKU.

Examples:
We knew WKU was going to pass, but look how much time their QB had to sit back and pass and most of time he was not even pressured. Contrast that with App, Brice was under pressure a lot of game. How can you rationalize that?
UL handled us in both games.

Summary, I am not saying it was coaching or players but if we want to lead the SBC and be a national top 25 team we have to be stronger along the OL. You have to set the bar higher, not just keep saying, "Oh, our stats say we are fine", we are NOT fine, we need to get better to achieve our goals.

I was just on a call last week for our company's annual meetings and a leader said you always set the bar HIGHER than you think you can achieve or you will never push yourself to do things you could not envision. That is what our team and coaches must do (I think both do follow this philosophy). But for fans and supporters, that is how you get to the next level, not by saying, "We did okay last year, I am happy with not winning SBC and not finishing in top 25".

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Re: 2022 App State Coaching Updates

Unread post by WVAPPeer » Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:40 pm

"We struggled in a lot of games this year controlling the LOS. I don't think anyone could argue that there were many games we could not establish the run and fortunately had a pretty good QB and WR's that could save us with the passing game. "

Geez, that would be a description of just about every good team in college football - EVEN - Alabama
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Re: 2022 App State Coaching Updates

Unread post by AppSt94 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:40 pm

AtlAppMan wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:36 pm
Stats are facts BUT I will agree with some on this thread that it was apparent in some of the games with that our OL was not at same level as other team. For example, UL and WKU.

Examples:
We knew WKU was going to pass, but look how much time their QB had to sit back and pass and most of time he was not even pressured. Contrast that with App, Brice was under pressure a lot of game. How can you rationalize that?
UL handled us in both games.

Summary, I am not saying it was coaching or players but if we want to lead the SBC and be a national top 25 team we have to be stronger along the OL. You have to set the bar higher, not just keep saying, "Oh, our stats say we are fine", we are NOT fine, we need to get better to achieve our goals.

I was just on a call last week for our company's annual meetings and a leader said you always set the bar HIGHER than you think you can achieve or you will never push yourself to do things you could not envision. That is what our team and coaches must do. That is how you get to the next level, not by saying, "We did okay last year, I am happy with not winning SBC and not finishing in top 25".
It doesn’t matter how much bigger and faster we get if they send more guys than we can block.

As to your last paragraph. Are you saying that the players and coaches were happy with the overall results? To me, I’m not happy with the results. I’m also not unhappy with the results. Because my expectations and goal setting are irrelevant to the team goals and outcome.
Last edited by AppSt94 on Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2022 App State Coaching Updates

Unread post by WVAPPeer » Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:45 pm

Look - and this is my opinion - throw out any discussions of the WKU game when talking about our 2021 season as a whole. That's about the only game I can remember in my time as an APP fan (winning seasons) that our guys just "weren't there". It happens to the very best of teams in a "meaningless" bowl game - we had won 7 in a row, it was going to happen eventually -
"Montani Semper Liberi"

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Re: 2022 App State Coaching Updates

Unread post by AtlAppMan » Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:55 pm

WVAPPeer wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:45 pm
Look - and this is my opinion - throw out any discussions of the WKU game when talking about our 2021 season as a whole. That's about the only game I can remember in my time as an APP fan (winning seasons) that our guys just "weren't there". It happens to the very best of teams in a "meaningless" bowl game - we had won 7 in a row, it was going to happen eventually -
So why is it okay to "throw out" our performance in the game against one of the best teams on our schedule in 2021? There is no question that WKU was absolutely the best bowl opponent we have faced since moving to FBS yet you are perfectly willing to disregard our performance in that game. How does that reconcile with us wanting to be the best program we can? I don't care how many straight bowl games we have won. Those are all in the past and didn't have any influence on this game.

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