AtlAppMan wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:57 pm

The one major difference for FBS vs lower divisions is that now all FBS conferences have a championship game. An extra game that does serve as a de facto first round in a way. (Logic for not going to 24).

It would be nice say all conferences get an automatic spot but there are definitely years where one or more G5 conferences champs just don't deserve a spot regardless of CFP size. It should be table stakes for some minimal guaranteed G5 spots. At least 1 or 2 of top G5 conference champs should be in.

The 12 number seems legit if a fair number of G5 spots could be addressed. I also think the top 4 overall slots getting a buy helps the lower teams have a shot at one reasonable game instead of automatic blowouts for top tier teams. You know it will be lambs to the slaughter if #1 plays #16 every year. You will eventually get blowouts just because of disparity at top, just like today.

Bottomline, I believe 12 teams would help give more teams "a shot" and expands significance of regular season games for everybody.

AppSt94 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:01 pm

AtlAppMan wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:57 pm

The one major difference for FBS vs lower divisions is that now all FBS conferences have a championship game. An extra game that does serve as a de facto first round in a way. (Logic for not going to 24).

It would be nice say all conferences get an automatic spot but there are definitely years where one or more G5 conferences champs just don't deserve a spot regardless of CFP size. It should be table stakes for some minimal guaranteed G5 spots. At least 1 or 2 of top G5 conference champs should be in.

The 12 number seems legit if a fair number of G5 spots could be addressed. I also think the top 4 overall slots getting a buy helps the lower teams have a shot at one reasonable game instead of automatic blowouts for top tier teams. You know it will be lambs to the slaughter if #1 plays #16 every year. You will eventually get blowouts just because of disparity at top, just like today.

Bottomline, I believe 12 teams would help give more teams "a shot" and expands significance of regular season games for everybody.

Agree with you on deserving teams. My issue is that if you don’t include conference champs, you are just as likely to have deserving teams sitting it out. If you don’t have the five champs, you likely still only have 1.

I have read that there is real concern from the "committee" regarding auto bids for a conference champion - I'll use my example from a previous post ---
Big 12
Baylor goes 8-0 in conference games beating all conference teams and they play the second place team for the conference championship - let's say the other 7 teams all beat up on each other and WVU takes the second place position at 4-4 because of tie-breakers. WV then upsets Baylor and in this scenario they would get the auto bid --- Or you could have something like this similar in the Big 10 - Penn St wins the East with an 8-1 record and the West is crazy and Minnesota wins with a 5-4 record - Minn upsets Penn St in the conf championship game and thus gets the Auto Bid even though during the regular season they lost to Penn St, Ohio St and Michigan --- ???

AppWyo wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:15 pm

AppStFan1 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:06 pm

AppWyo wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:51 am

The real reason that Notre Dame does not want to join a conference is the same reason that Georgia Southern won 4 national championship games as an independent. No one had an answer for the triple option, because most teams did not see that in the regular season and were not prepared to stop the triple option when they played them in the playoffs. Just like Drinkwitz, if he had stayed at App more teams would have figured out how to beat him. Notre Dame does not want to loose the advantage it gives them not having to play the same teams every year to figure them out. Any school in a conference is at a disadvantage, because other teams figure them out. Georgia Southern has given App so many problems over the years because they change coaches so often. That is why Alabama is so hard to beat because they change assistant coaches so often, no one has been able to figure out what they are going to do.

So some people on here and 247 have said that the change in coaches hurts development but at a school like Alabama where they are college ready as a senior in HS that is not a big deal. Interesting to see how different it is for them since they are getting elite talent that does not have to fit so perfect in a system. They just get the best players.

On Notre Dame, do you all think the ACC blew it and should have forced them to join the ACC permanently to be allowed to play with the league in 2020? I felt that was leverage they could have used. I don't think Notre Dame is going to a league until the ACC squeezes them and makes it where they have to in order to have a real shot at the playoffs.

Interesting concept, expand the playoffs to force Notre Dame to join a conference.

AppSt94 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:15 pm

I’m not sure that your statement regarding Alabama is accurate. I doubt that they just call every guy ranked 1-3 in each position and offer them. I’m sure that there is an evaluation process to determine if a guy can fit with what they are doing and a relationship build to determine fit to the culture.

AppStFan1 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:11 pm

AppWyo wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:15 pm

AppStFan1 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:06 pm

AppWyo wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:51 am

The real reason that Notre Dame does not want to join a conference is the same reason that Georgia Southern won 4 national championship games as an independent. No one had an answer for the triple option, because most teams did not see that in the regular season and were not prepared to stop the triple option when they played them in the playoffs. Just like Drinkwitz, if he had stayed at App more teams would have figured out how to beat him. Notre Dame does not want to loose the advantage it gives them not having to play the same teams every year to figure them out. Any school in a conference is at a disadvantage, because other teams figure them out. Georgia Southern has given App so many problems over the years because they change coaches so often. That is why Alabama is so hard to beat because they change assistant coaches so often, no one has been able to figure out what they are going to do.

So some people on here and 247 have said that the change in coaches hurts development but at a school like Alabama where they are college ready as a senior in HS that is not a big deal. Interesting to see how different it is for them since they are getting elite talent that does not have to fit so perfect in a system. They just get the best players.

On Notre Dame, do you all think the ACC blew it and should have forced them to join the ACC permanently to be allowed to play with the league in 2020? I felt that was leverage they could have used. I don't think Notre Dame is going to a league until the ACC squeezes them and makes it where they have to in order to have a real shot at the playoffs.

Interesting concept, expand the playoffs to force Notre Dame to join a conference.

If they expand the playoffs and state you must be a league champion or play in the league title game that could be something that indeed forces Notre Dame in a league. They won't join a league until their path to the playoffs is taken away without being in a conference. Expansion could indeed be a good way to force them in a league.

WVAPPeer wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:24 pm

AppSt94 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:01 pm

AtlAppMan wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:57 pm

The one major difference for FBS vs lower divisions is that now all FBS conferences have a championship game. An extra game that does serve as a de facto first round in a way. (Logic for not going to 24).

It would be nice say all conferences get an automatic spot but there are definitely years where one or more G5 conferences champs just don't deserve a spot regardless of CFP size. It should be table stakes for some minimal guaranteed G5 spots. At least 1 or 2 of top G5 conference champs should be in.

The 12 number seems legit if a fair number of G5 spots could be addressed. I also think the top 4 overall slots getting a buy helps the lower teams have a shot at one reasonable game instead of automatic blowouts for top tier teams. You know it will be lambs to the slaughter if #1 plays #16 every year. You will eventually get blowouts just because of disparity at top, just like today.

Bottomline, I believe 12 teams would help give more teams "a shot" and expands significance of regular season games for everybody.

Agree with you on deserving teams. My issue is that if you don’t include conference champs, you are just as likely to have deserving teams sitting it out. If you don’t have the five champs, you likely still only have 1.

I have read that there is real concern from the "committee" regarding auto bids for a conference champion - I'll use my example from a previous post ---
Big 12
Baylor goes 8-0 in conference games beating all conference teams and they play the second place team for the conference championship - let's say the other 7 teams all beat up on each other and WVU takes the second place position at 4-4 because of tie-breakers. WV then upsets Baylor and in this scenario they would get the auto bid --- Or you could have something like this similar in the Big 10 - Penn St wins the East with an 8-1 record and the West is crazy and Minnesota wins with a 5-4 record - Minn upsets Penn St in the conf championship game and thus gets the Auto Bid even though during the regular season they lost to Penn St, Ohio St and Michigan --- ???

AppStFan1 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:17 pm

AppSt94 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:15 pm

I’m not sure that your statement regarding Alabama is accurate. I doubt that they just call every guy ranked 1-3 in each position and offer them. I’m sure that there is an evaluation process to determine if a guy can fit with what they are doing and a relationship build to determine fit to the culture.

Are you talking about my statement? If so, I never said anything about Alabama going after highest rated players. I said they sign elite talent, which is shown in how they play every year. I think you read that into my statement assuming I meant the ratings but I would have flat out said ratings had I meant that here. We all know the ratings are based on college interest for the most part with stats taken into consideration. That does not guarantee a player to be good. lol

AppSt94 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:07 pm

WVAPPeer wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:24 pm

AppSt94 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:01 pm

AtlAppMan wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:57 pm

The one major difference for FBS vs lower divisions is that now all FBS conferences have a championship game. An extra game that does serve as a de facto first round in a way. (Logic for not going to 24).

It would be nice say all conferences get an automatic spot but there are definitely years where one or more G5 conferences champs just don't deserve a spot regardless of CFP size. It should be table stakes for some minimal guaranteed G5 spots. At least 1 or 2 of top G5 conference champs should be in.

The 12 number seems legit if a fair number of G5 spots could be addressed. I also think the top 4 overall slots getting a buy helps the lower teams have a shot at one reasonable game instead of automatic blowouts for top tier teams. You know it will be lambs to the slaughter if #1 plays #16 every year. You will eventually get blowouts just because of disparity at top, just like today.

Bottomline, I believe 12 teams would help give more teams "a shot" and expands significance of regular season games for everybody.

Agree with you on deserving teams. My issue is that if you don’t include conference champs, you are just as likely to have deserving teams sitting it out. If you don’t have the five champs, you likely still only have 1.

I have read that there is real concern from the "committee" regarding auto bids for a conference champion - I'll use my example from a previous post ---
Big 12
Baylor goes 8-0 in conference games beating all conference teams and they play the second place team for the conference championship - let's say the other 7 teams all beat up on each other and WVU takes the second place position at 4-4 because of tie-breakers. WV then upsets Baylor and in this scenario they would get the auto bid --- Or you could have something like this similar in the Big 10 - Penn St wins the East with an 8-1 record and the West is crazy and Minnesota wins with a 5-4 record - Minn upsets Penn St in the conf championship game and thus gets the Auto Bid even though during the regular season they lost to Penn St, Ohio St and Michigan --- ???

But isn’t that the beauty of college sports, or what it is supposed to be? Those teams that were upset would most likely qualify for the at large bids, so they are still in.

WVAPPeer wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:50 pm

AppStFan1 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:11 pm

AppWyo wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:15 pm

AppStFan1 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:06 pm

AppWyo wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:51 am

The real reason that Notre Dame does not want to join a conference is the same reason that Georgia Southern won 4 national championship games as an independent. No one had an answer for the triple option, because most teams did not see that in the regular season and were not prepared to stop the triple option when they played them in the playoffs. Just like Drinkwitz, if he had stayed at App more teams would have figured out how to beat him. Notre Dame does not want to loose the advantage it gives them not having to play the same teams every year to figure them out. Any school in a conference is at a disadvantage, because other teams figure them out. Georgia Southern has given App so many problems over the years because they change coaches so often. That is why Alabama is so hard to beat because they change assistant coaches so often, no one has been able to figure out what they are going to do.

So some people on here and 247 have said that the change in coaches hurts development but at a school like Alabama where they are college ready as a senior in HS that is not a big deal. Interesting to see how different it is for them since they are getting elite talent that does not have to fit so perfect in a system. They just get the best players.

On Notre Dame, do you all think the ACC blew it and should have forced them to join the ACC permanently to be allowed to play with the league in 2020? I felt that was leverage they could have used. I don't think Notre Dame is going to a league until the ACC squeezes them and makes it where they have to in order to have a real shot at the playoffs.

Interesting concept, expand the playoffs to force Notre Dame to join a conference.

If they expand the playoffs and state you must be a league champion or play in the league title game that could be something that indeed forces Notre Dame in a league. They won't join a league until their path to the playoffs is taken away without being in a conference. Expansion could indeed be a good way to force them in a league.

It could work that way but I don't think it will on this go round - but I like the idea that at least the top 4 must come from a conference - possibly top 6 === then if ND has a good enough record put them in with the at-large bids 7 thru 12

WVAPPeer wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:34 pm

AppSt94 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:07 pm

WVAPPeer wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:24 pm

AppSt94 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:01 pm

AtlAppMan wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:57 pm

The one major difference for FBS vs lower divisions is that now all FBS conferences have a championship game. An extra game that does serve as a de facto first round in a way. (Logic for not going to 24).

It would be nice say all conferences get an automatic spot but there are definitely years where one or more G5 conferences champs just don't deserve a spot regardless of CFP size. It should be table stakes for some minimal guaranteed G5 spots. At least 1 or 2 of top G5 conference champs should be in.

The 12 number seems legit if a fair number of G5 spots could be addressed. I also think the top 4 overall slots getting a buy helps the lower teams have a shot at one reasonable game instead of automatic blowouts for top tier teams. You know it will be lambs to the slaughter if #1 plays #16 every year. You will eventually get blowouts just because of disparity at top, just like today.

Bottomline, I believe 12 teams would help give more teams "a shot" and expands significance of regular season games for everybody.

Agree with you on deserving teams. My issue is that if you don’t include conference champs, you are just as likely to have deserving teams sitting it out. If you don’t have the five champs, you likely still only have 1.

I have read that there is real concern from the "committee" regarding auto bids for a conference champion - I'll use my example from a previous post ---
Big 12
Baylor goes 8-0 in conference games beating all conference teams and they play the second place team for the conference championship - let's say the other 7 teams all beat up on each other and WVU takes the second place position at 4-4 because of tie-breakers. WV then upsets Baylor and in this scenario they would get the auto bid --- Or you could have something like this similar in the Big 10 - Penn St wins the East with an 8-1 record and the West is crazy and Minnesota wins with a 5-4 record - Minn upsets Penn St in the conf championship game and thus gets the Auto Bid even though during the regular season they lost to Penn St, Ohio St and Michigan --- ???

But isn’t that the beauty of college sports, or what it is supposed to be? Those teams that were upset would most likely qualify for the at large bids, so they are still in.

Maybe - maybe not --- what if Baylor is 8-0 in conf but 9-3 overall --- Penn st is 8-1 in conf because they beat OSU and Mich but were 10-3 overall and OSU doesn't win the division nor conf and finish 10-2 but lost to Penn ST and Mich finishes 3rd in the division at 7-2 but finish the season at 10-2
See what I'm getting at - not what I am hoping for - but why there's hesitancy to give auto qualifiers to conf champions? - they want all 12 to be at large

AppGrad78 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:46 pm

The proposal getting the most attention says “the six highest-ranked conference champions qualify.”

In 2020 for example, the PAC-12 champ wouldn’t have qualified. But Cincinnati and Coastal Carolina would have.

AppSt94 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:18 pm

AppStFan1 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:17 pm

AppSt94 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:15 pm

I’m not sure that your statement regarding Alabama is accurate. I doubt that they just call every guy ranked 1-3 in each position and offer them. I’m sure that there is an evaluation process to determine if a guy can fit with what they are doing and a relationship build to determine fit to the culture.

Are you talking about my statement? If so, I never said anything about Alabama going after highest rated players. I said they sign elite talent, which is shown in how they play every year. I think you read that into my statement assuming I meant the ratings but I would have flat out said ratings had I meant that here. We all know the ratings are based on college interest for the most part with stats taken into consideration. That does not guarantee a player to be good. lol

You said, “ Interesting to see how different it is for them since they are getting elite talent that does not have to fit so perfect in a system. They just get the best players.”

No you didn’t mention ratings. Your comment was that they get the best players. Your comment suggest that they don’t care if a kid fits their scheme. That’s not true. Their long term success, like us, is due to getting the best players that fit what they do and they coach them up. In a sense, we get the best players available that works for us.

AppSt94 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:54 am

AppWyo wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:51 am

The real reason that Notre Dame does not want to join a conference is the same reason that Georgia Southern won 4 national championship games as an independent. No one had an answer for the triple option, because most teams did not see that in the regular season and were not prepared to stop the triple option when they played them in the playoffs. Just like Drinkwitz, if he had stayed at App more teams would have figured out how to beat him. Notre Dame does not want to loose the advantage it gives them not having to play the same teams every year to figure them out. Any school in a conference is at a disadvantage, because other teams figure them out. Georgia Southern has given App so many problems over the years because they change coaches so often. That is why Alabama is so hard to beat because they change assistant coaches so often, no one has been able to figure out what they are going to do.

Don’t they play the same opponents regularly? Seems to me that Stanford, BC, and USC are on their schedule more often than not. They also play the military academies often, which fiscally, is genius. They don’t have to pay them for money games.

Bootsy wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:57 pm

Regarding Notre Dame, it has always given me a chuckle hearing them named among the elite college football teams.
Their horrific record in bowls/CFP games speaks for itself. When the stakes are high, the Irish poop the bed.

Somebody change my mind.