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CFP Ideas

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CFP Ideas

Unread post by WVAPPeer » Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:05 am

Just pulled this from ESPN.com - https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... tives-more

I know we have discussed this in numerous posts - I do think we will hear more about this during the month of January as I have read that the committee has a limited time frame to make changes of things will stay the same for at least two years ---

Personally, I would like to see it go to 12 teams with the top 4 getting byes - Yep, we will probably end up with at least two SEC teams in the Final 4, but I do believe it would create much more interest in the first/second round games than two teams playing in the WhoGivesACrapTexasBarbersSchoolUnderArmDeodorant.FlintMichiganBowl -

There are also a couple of interesting articles that follow this one ---
After another year of semifinal blowouts, what is your preferred playoff format and why?
David Hale: The blowouts are far less of a big-picture problem for college football or its TV partners than the fact that the same teams are always playing in these games. Expansion is needed -- partially for competitive reasons, but mostly to create more meaningful games all season. But the fact that the current system also creates a "rich get richer" scenario, expansion might also make a real dent in the number of competitive games, too, by giving bigger stages to more teams. Notre Dame-Oklahoma State would've been a fantastic playoff game this year, for example, and the revenue and prestige that came from it would've only helped the Irish and Cowboys long term. I'm all for 12 -- and possibly even 16. But there also needs to be a tradeoff to make it work, starting with nixing the cupcake regular-season games and including more financial incentives for the players.

Paolo Uggetti: Even though the conference commissioners seem to be at odds about this very thing, I think we can all agree that 12 is the ideal number. Personally, I'd love it if there was a way to make eight work, but we all know that would only lead to having this discussion all over again and ending up at 12 anyway. It's not a zero-sum game, though. Twelve would make more bowl games matter, but would add more games to a player's schedule, too. The trickle-down effect needs to be accounted for, whether by adjusting schedules or compensating players fairly because they're being asked to, you know, work more. But yes, expand please and thank you.

Adam Rittenberg: I had always preferred eight teams to 12, but now I can see a case for an even bigger postseason, or at least something that will make more postseason games truly meaningful for the players. Will that prevent opt-outs? Not entirely. Will it prevent All-SEC national title games? Certainly not. But a playoff has to be more national in nature than the current one. Every true playoff system aims for geographical representation even at the expense of actual competition. That's why eight teams (six conference champions, two at-larges) would work, but I'm more open to 12-, 16- or 24-team models than ever because of the overall issues with college football's postseason.

Kyle Bonagura: If only there were an NCAA-sanctioned playoff system for college football that has been used successfully for years. Oh, wait. This isn't that hard. College football is too stuck on trying to preserve tradition, which sounds good in theory until you factor in the reality that the traditional postseason system has never been good. It wasn't the structure that appealed to fans or players or anyone else, it was that football is easy to enjoy whenever and wherever it's played. Imagine the response if any other sport in the country decided to do away with a real playoff system in favor of what is in place in college football. It would not be taken seriously for even half a second.

Bill Connelly: The smaller-school playoffs are enormous and feature lots of blowouts, and they're still really fun because of the engagement levels and the simple fact that, even if we still end up with some lopsided scores and predictable champions (something that isn't guaranteed in a larger format), we'll end up with a lot of super-engaging, high-intensity battles as well. I always say it's about the journey more than the destination, and the journey will be more fun with more fun teams involved. Expand, baby.
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Re: CFP Ideas

Unread post by AppWyo » Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:33 am

Yes, lets go straight to 24 teams, the "best" get buys and all conference division winners get an automatic bid.

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Re: CFP Ideas

Unread post by t4pizza » Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:33 am

Seems like everyone is on board with at least 12 except those making the decisions to actually make it happen. I am all for a 12 team and maybe even 16 team because I think it will lead to a better distribution of players on teams over time. The current system where the same 3-5 teams get the vast majority of elite players just isn't good for the long term health of the game.

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Re: CFP Ideas

Unread post by AppSt94 » Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:44 am

16 teams. All 10 Conference Champs get autos with 6 at large. Top 8 ranked autos get byes. First two rounds played at home of higher ranking (seeded) team.

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Re: CFP Ideas

Unread post by AppWyo » Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:51 am

The real reason that Notre Dame does not want to join a conference is the same reason that Georgia Southern won 4 national championship games as an independent. No one had an answer for the triple option, because most teams did not see that in the regular season and were not prepared to stop the triple option when they played them in the playoffs. Just like Drinkwitz, if he had stayed at App more teams would have figured out how to beat him. Notre Dame does not want to loose the advantage it gives them not having to play the same teams every year to figure them out. Any school in a conference is at a disadvantage, because other teams figure them out. Georgia Southern has given App so many problems over the years because they change coaches so often. That is why Alabama is so hard to beat because they change assistant coaches so often, no one has been able to figure out what they are going to do.

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Re: CFP Ideas

Unread post by AppSt94 » Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:54 am

AppWyo wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:51 am
The real reason that Notre Dame does not want to join a conference is the same reason that Georgia Southern won 4 national championship games as an independent. No one had an answer for the triple option, because most teams did not see that in the regular season and were not prepared to stop the triple option when they played them in the playoffs. Just like Drinkwitz, if he had stayed at App more teams would have figured out how to beat him. Notre Dame does not want to loose the advantage it gives them not having to play the same teams every year to figure them out. Any school in a conference is at a disadvantage, because other teams figure them out. Georgia Southern has given App so many problems over the years because they change coaches so often. That is why Alabama is so hard to beat because they change assistant coaches so often, no one has been able to figure out what they are going to do.
Don’t they play the same opponents regularly? Seems to me that Stanford, BC, and USC are on their schedule more often than not. They also play the military academies often, which fiscally, is genius. They don’t have to pay them for money games.

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Re: CFP Ideas

Unread post by AppWyo » Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:59 am

Oh yeah, I forgot about the money.

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Re: CFP Ideas

Unread post by WVAPPeer » Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:23 pm

AppSt94 wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:54 am
AppWyo wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:51 am
The real reason that Notre Dame does not want to join a conference is the same reason that Georgia Southern won 4 national championship games as an independent. No one had an answer for the triple option, because most teams did not see that in the regular season and were not prepared to stop the triple option when they played them in the playoffs. Just like Drinkwitz, if he had stayed at App more teams would have figured out how to beat him. Notre Dame does not want to loose the advantage it gives them not having to play the same teams every year to figure them out. Any school in a conference is at a disadvantage, because other teams figure them out. Georgia Southern has given App so many problems over the years because they change coaches so often. That is why Alabama is so hard to beat because they change assistant coaches so often, no one has been able to figure out what they are going to do.
Don’t they play the same opponents regularly? Seems to me that Stanford, BC, and USC are on their schedule more often than not. They also play the military academies often, which fiscally, is genius. They don’t have to pay them for money games.
It just doesn't equate to having to play these teams as conference members in important games year in and year out - lose one game to a conference member in your division when that team is like Clemson or Alabama or Ohio State and dreams of playing in conference championship games are out the window
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Re: CFP Ideas

Unread post by AppWyo » Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:45 pm

WVAPPeer wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:23 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:54 am
AppWyo wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:51 am
The real reason that Notre Dame does not want to join a conference is the same reason that Georgia Southern won 4 national championship games as an independent. No one had an answer for the triple option, because most teams did not see that in the regular season and were not prepared to stop the triple option when they played them in the playoffs. Just like Drinkwitz, if he had stayed at App more teams would have figured out how to beat him. Notre Dame does not want to loose the advantage it gives them not having to play the same teams every year to figure them out. Any school in a conference is at a disadvantage, because other teams figure them out. Georgia Southern has given App so many problems over the years because they change coaches so often. That is why Alabama is so hard to beat because they change assistant coaches so often, no one has been able to figure out what they are going to do.
Don’t they play the same opponents regularly? Seems to me that Stanford, BC, and USC are on their schedule more often than not. They also play the military academies often, which fiscally, is genius. They don’t have to pay them for money games.
It just doesn't equate to having to play these teams as conference members in important games year in and year out - lose one game to a conference member in your division when that team is like Clemson or Alabama or Ohio State and dreams of playing in conference championship games are out the window
Just like having Appalachian in your division...

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Re: CFP Ideas

Unread post by AppSt94 » Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:48 pm

WVAPPeer wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:23 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:54 am
AppWyo wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:51 am
The real reason that Notre Dame does not want to join a conference is the same reason that Georgia Southern won 4 national championship games as an independent. No one had an answer for the triple option, because most teams did not see that in the regular season and were not prepared to stop the triple option when they played them in the playoffs. Just like Drinkwitz, if he had stayed at App more teams would have figured out how to beat him. Notre Dame does not want to loose the advantage it gives them not having to play the same teams every year to figure them out. Any school in a conference is at a disadvantage, because other teams figure them out. Georgia Southern has given App so many problems over the years because they change coaches so often. That is why Alabama is so hard to beat because they change assistant coaches so often, no one has been able to figure out what they are going to do.
Don’t they play the same opponents regularly? Seems to me that Stanford, BC, and USC are on their schedule more often than not. They also play the military academies often, which fiscally, is genius. They don’t have to pay them for money games.
It just doesn't equate to having to play these teams as conference members in important games year in and year out - lose one game to a conference member in your division when that team is like Clemson or Alabama or Ohio State and dreams of playing in conference championship games are out the window
From a certain point of view, I agree. But not from theirs. ND makes roughly $50 million a year from rights and licensing and that pie is sliced one way. Now, joining a conference doesn’t make that number grow exponentially to the point that is it worth the aggravation of dealing with more opinions? No. So how do you fix that? If you have to be a conference champ to get a seed high enough to host a second round game, does that move the needle for ND to join the ACC full time? Or are they content with getting a 11 or 12 seed and get one home game? To me ND, has more to lose by joining a conference than staying independent.

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Re: CFP Ideas

Unread post by AppWyo » Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:43 pm

AppSt94 wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:48 pm
WVAPPeer wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:23 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:54 am
AppWyo wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:51 am
The real reason that Notre Dame does not want to join a conference is the same reason that Georgia Southern won 4 national championship games as an independent. No one had an answer for the triple option, because most teams did not see that in the regular season and were not prepared to stop the triple option when they played them in the playoffs. Just like Drinkwitz, if he had stayed at App more teams would have figured out how to beat him. Notre Dame does not want to loose the advantage it gives them not having to play the same teams every year to figure them out. Any school in a conference is at a disadvantage, because other teams figure them out. Georgia Southern has given App so many problems over the years because they change coaches so often. That is why Alabama is so hard to beat because they change assistant coaches so often, no one has been able to figure out what they are going to do.
Don’t they play the same opponents regularly? Seems to me that Stanford, BC, and USC are on their schedule more often than not. They also play the military academies often, which fiscally, is genius. They don’t have to pay them for money games.
It just doesn't equate to having to play these teams as conference members in important games year in and year out - lose one game to a conference member in your division when that team is like Clemson or Alabama or Ohio State and dreams of playing in conference championship games are out the window
From a certain point of view, I agree. But not from theirs. ND makes roughly $50 million a year from rights and licensing and that pie is sliced one way. Now, joining a conference doesn’t make that number grow exponentially to the point that is it worth the aggravation of dealing with more opinions? No. So how do you fix that? If you have to be a conference champ to get a seed high enough to host a second round game, does that move the needle for ND to join the ACC full time? Or are they content with getting a 11 or 12 seed and get one home game? To me ND, has more to lose by joining a conference than staying independent.
50 years ago it made more sense to be an independent than it does now. So much of this is just jealously toward Notre Dame.

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Re: CFP Ideas

Unread post by AppSt94 » Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:45 pm

AppWyo wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:43 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:48 pm
WVAPPeer wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:23 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:54 am
AppWyo wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:51 am
The real reason that Notre Dame does not want to join a conference is the same reason that Georgia Southern won 4 national championship games as an independent. No one had an answer for the triple option, because most teams did not see that in the regular season and were not prepared to stop the triple option when they played them in the playoffs. Just like Drinkwitz, if he had stayed at App more teams would have figured out how to beat him. Notre Dame does not want to loose the advantage it gives them not having to play the same teams every year to figure them out. Any school in a conference is at a disadvantage, because other teams figure them out. Georgia Southern has given App so many problems over the years because they change coaches so often. That is why Alabama is so hard to beat because they change assistant coaches so often, no one has been able to figure out what they are going to do.
Don’t they play the same opponents regularly? Seems to me that Stanford, BC, and USC are on their schedule more often than not. They also play the military academies often, which fiscally, is genius. They don’t have to pay them for money games.
It just doesn't equate to having to play these teams as conference members in important games year in and year out - lose one game to a conference member in your division when that team is like Clemson or Alabama or Ohio State and dreams of playing in conference championship games are out the window
From a certain point of view, I agree. But not from theirs. ND makes roughly $50 million a year from rights and licensing and that pie is sliced one way. Now, joining a conference doesn’t make that number grow exponentially to the point that is it worth the aggravation of dealing with more opinions? No. So how do you fix that? If you have to be a conference champ to get a seed high enough to host a second round game, does that move the needle for ND to join the ACC full time? Or are they content with getting a 11 or 12 seed and get one home game? To me ND, has more to lose by joining a conference than staying independent.
50 years ago it made more sense to be an independent than it does now. So much of this is just jealously toward Notre Dame.
Completely agree. I imagine that there are a few schools that would prefer to go the ND route.

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Re: CFP Ideas

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:06 pm

AppWyo wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:51 am
The real reason that Notre Dame does not want to join a conference is the same reason that Georgia Southern won 4 national championship games as an independent. No one had an answer for the triple option, because most teams did not see that in the regular season and were not prepared to stop the triple option when they played them in the playoffs. Just like Drinkwitz, if he had stayed at App more teams would have figured out how to beat him. Notre Dame does not want to loose the advantage it gives them not having to play the same teams every year to figure them out. Any school in a conference is at a disadvantage, because other teams figure them out. Georgia Southern has given App so many problems over the years because they change coaches so often. That is why Alabama is so hard to beat because they change assistant coaches so often, no one has been able to figure out what they are going to do.
So some people on here and 247 have said that the change in coaches hurts development but at a school like Alabama where they are college ready as a senior in HS that is not a big deal. Interesting to see how different it is for them since they are getting elite talent that does not have to fit so perfect in a system. They just get the best players based on their opinion.

On Notre Dame, do you all think the ACC blew it and should have forced them to join the ACC permanently to be allowed to play with the league in 2020? I felt that was leverage they could have used. I don't think Notre Dame is going to a league until the ACC squeezes them and makes it where they have to in order to have a real shot at the playoffs.
Last edited by AppStFan1 on Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: CFP Ideas

Unread post by AppWyo » Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:15 pm

AppStFan1 wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:06 pm
AppWyo wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:51 am
The real reason that Notre Dame does not want to join a conference is the same reason that Georgia Southern won 4 national championship games as an independent. No one had an answer for the triple option, because most teams did not see that in the regular season and were not prepared to stop the triple option when they played them in the playoffs. Just like Drinkwitz, if he had stayed at App more teams would have figured out how to beat him. Notre Dame does not want to loose the advantage it gives them not having to play the same teams every year to figure them out. Any school in a conference is at a disadvantage, because other teams figure them out. Georgia Southern has given App so many problems over the years because they change coaches so often. That is why Alabama is so hard to beat because they change assistant coaches so often, no one has been able to figure out what they are going to do.
So some people on here and 247 have said that the change in coaches hurts development but at a school like Alabama where they are college ready as a senior in HS that is not a big deal. Interesting to see how different it is for them since they are getting elite talent that does not have to fit so perfect in a system. They just get the best players.

On Notre Dame, do you all think the ACC blew it and should have forced them to join the ACC permanently to be allowed to play with the league in 2020? I felt that was leverage they could have used. I don't think Notre Dame is going to a league until the ACC squeezes them and makes it where they have to in order to have a real shot at the playoffs.
Interesting concept, expand the playoffs to force Notre Dame to join a conference.

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Re: CFP Ideas

Unread post by AppSt94 » Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:15 pm

I’m not sure that your statement regarding Alabama is accurate. I doubt that they just call every guy ranked 1-3 in each position and offer them. I’m sure that there is an evaluation process to determine if a guy can fit with what they are doing and a relationship build to determine fit to the culture.

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Re: CFP Ideas

Unread post by WVAPPeer » Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:10 pm

Remember it takes a unanimous vote to change the playoff structure and ND has a seat at the table --- And No, there is no jealousy toward ND - I despise those who consider themselves better or entitled or that the rules/laws don't apply to them whether it be football teams, institutions or people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: CFP Ideas

Unread post by AppWyo » Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:17 pm

WVAPPeer wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:10 pm
Remember it takes a unanimous vote to change the playoff structure and ND has a seat at the table --- And No, there is no jealousy toward ND - I despise those who consider themselves better or entitled or that the rules/laws don't apply to them whether it be football teams, institutions or people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree with you, double standards are one of my four pet peeves.

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Re: CFP Ideas

Unread post by T-Dog » Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:37 pm

The max number of games I'd want a college team to play is 16 or 17. Anything more is complete excess. The FCS already guarantees a max of 16-17 games.

Ideally, I'd like to get rid of conference championship games. With unbalanced scheduling, it's just an extra game.

That would make a 16 or 24-team playoff the absolute max. I think you can sell that to different networks and get enough money to make up for a conference championship game per league. Anything 12 or more would guarantee each of the P5 and Notre Dame a seat at the table (with certain qualifying parameters.) And the tournament should start no later than Christmas week. Going into late January is overkill IMO.

A 12-team playoff would make the top four a goal for top teams and teams 5-8 would be able to host a playoff game, creating drama that networks would love for more games. Each power conference could be guaranteed an autobid to make them happy (as long as a team from that league wins 9 games, for instance). The regular season would still matter. Rotate the New Year's Six between the quarterfinals and semifinals and have a non-bowl championship like the current setup.

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Re: CFP Ideas

Unread post by AppSt94 » Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:45 pm

A lack of CCGs would only allow the P5s to push everyone else out. The token G5 then gets relegated to the last seed every year.

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Re: CFP Ideas

Unread post by AtlAppMan » Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:57 pm

The one major difference for FBS vs lower divisions is that now all FBS conferences have a championship game. An extra game that does serve as a de facto first round in a way. (Logic for not going to 24).

It would be nice say all conferences get an automatic spot but there are definitely years where one or more G5 conferences champs just don't deserve a spot regardless of CFP size. It should be table stakes for some minimal guaranteed G5 spots. At least 1 or 2 of top G5 conference champs should be in.

The 12 number seems legit if a fair number of G5 spots could be addressed. I also think the top 4 overall slots getting a buy helps the lower teams have a shot at one reasonable game instead of automatic blowouts for top tier teams. You know it will be lambs to the slaughter if #1 plays #16 every year. You will eventually get blowouts just because of disparity at top, just like today.

Bottomline, I believe 12 teams would help give more teams "a shot" and expands significance of regular season games for everybody.

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