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Special Teams
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:36 am
by HighPointApp
Read a comment by Appstatealum in another thread which made me think to post this.
Our special teams yesterday were amazing. Coach Link has every facet clicking. I saw some wrinkles yesterday, which watching live makes perfect sense.
Example - kickoffs. We routinely kick the ball to the 1-2 yard line, to a certain part of the field and then use our speed to make the tackles. These tackles were usually around the 16-18 yard line.
Punts. We had 2 downed inside the 5. One touch back went right past one of our guys.
Having our special teams sprint every single time down the field anticipating a return was phenomenal to watch.
Just my .02
Re: Special Teams
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:47 am
by goapps93
Every time we kicked off and the ball was fielded inside the 5 several people sitting behind me commented how bad that was. We stopped them inside the 20 every time we did that. Some people have no clue and that's OK but why do they always have to sit near me.
Re: Special Teams
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:53 am
by HighPointApp
goapps93 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:47 am
Every time we kicked off and the ball was fielded inside the 5 several people sitting behind me commented how bad that was. We stopped them inside the 20 every time we did that. Some people have no clue and that's OK but why do they always have to sit near me.
So you know you’re smarter!!!
Re: Special Teams
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:10 am
by AppStFan1
Special teams is outstanding. We need to give Link a big raise and keep him around if we keep it up. People don't realize how stupid it is to just kick out of the back of the endzone. Kick right near goalline and high inside the 5. Give the unit time to get down field and the goal should be to make the stop between the 10 and 20. Very smart to do. Just kicking out of back of the endzone is so dumb.
Re: Special Teams
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:11 am
by PhillyApp
Coach Link may be the most underrated hire of the offseason. Great product that he’s putting on the field!!!
Re: Special Teams
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:19 am
by AppStFan1
PhillyApp wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:11 am
Coach Link may be the most underrated hire of the offseason. Great product that he’s putting on the field!!!
No question he was the best hire. Special teams could be the difference in Columbia for us.
Re: Special Teams
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:30 am
by Appster99
While I enjoy seeing our special teams make big hits and stopping their returners anywhere short of the 25, I tense up just a bit when there is a return. Those collisions after a 40 yard full sprint are often violent, causing injuries. That's the biggest benefit of touchbacks. That and if their returner doesn't have a chance to touch it, there is zero chance of us missing a tackle and them breaking off a long return.
Re: Special Teams
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:32 am
by HighPointApp
Appster99 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:30 am
While I enjoy seeing our special teams make big hits and stopping their returners anywhere short of the 25, I tense up just a bit when there is a return. Those collisions after a 40 yard full sprint are often violent, causing injuries. That's the biggest benefit of touchbacks. That and if their returner doesn't have a chance to touch it, there is zero chance of us missing a tackle and them breaking off a long return.
There’s always that risk. Good point.
Re: Special Teams
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:46 am
by Appster99
AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:10 am
Special teams is outstanding. We need to give Link a big raise and keep him around if we keep it up. People don't realize how stupid it is to just kick out of the back of the endzone. Kick right near goalline and high inside the 5. Give the unit time to get down field and the goal should be to make the stop between the 10 and 20. Very smart to do. Just kicking out of back of the endzone is so dumb.
So every coach in college who trains their kicker and gives scholarships to guys whose only skill is to kick it through the endzone are "so dumb"? I think I might defer to their understanding of the risks of kicking it to the 2 versus a touchback.
Re: Special Teams
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:51 am
by AppStFan1
Appster99 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:46 am
AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:10 am
Special teams is outstanding. We need to give Link a big raise and keep him around if we keep it up. People don't realize how stupid it is to just kick out of the back of the endzone. Kick right near goalline and high inside the 5. Give the unit time to get down field and the goal should be to make the stop between the 10 and 20. Very smart to do. Just kicking out of back of the endzone is so dumb.
So every coach in college who trains their kicker and gives scholarships to guys whose only skill is to kick it through the endzone are "so dumb"? I think I might defer to their understanding of the risks of kicking it to the 2 versus a touchback.
What I'm saying is kicking out of the back of the endzone all the time is dumb. The goal is to pin the other team as deep as you can. When you kick a touchback the team is guaranteed to start at the 25. You should be trying to get that extra 5-15 yards by pinning the team deeper.
If a kicker has a monster leg train him to kick it high and near the goalline.
Now, this strategy does not work if you have no speed and your kickoff team can't tackle. If you have that problem then no you should definitely kick out of the back of the endzone.
Link's strategy, assuming he is asking our kicker to kick there for sure, is the ideal strategy. Ask any special teams coach who is known for doing a good job. I would only kick a touchback when your unit is struggling to tackle.
Re: Special Teams
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:56 am
by AppinVA
AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:51 am
Appster99 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:46 am
AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:10 am
Special teams is outstanding. We need to give Link a big raise and keep him around if we keep it up. People don't realize how stupid it is to just kick out of the back of the endzone. Kick right near goalline and high inside the 5. Give the unit time to get down field and the goal should be to make the stop between the 10 and 20. Very smart to do. Just kicking out of back of the endzone is so dumb.
So every coach in college who trains their kicker and gives scholarships to guys whose only skill is to kick it through the endzone are "so dumb"? I think I might defer to their understanding of the risks of kicking it to the 2 versus a touchback.
What I'm saying is kicking out of the back of the endzone all the time is dumb. The goal is to pin the other team as deep as you can. When you kick a touchback the team is guaranteed to start at the 25. You should be trying to get that extra 5-15 yards by pinning the team deeper.
If a kicker has a monster leg train him to kick it high and near the goalline.
Now, this strategy does not work if you have no speed and your kickoff team can't tackle. If you have that problem then no you should definitely kick out of the back of the endzone.
Link's strategy, assuming he is asking our kicker to kick there for sure, is the ideal strategy. Ask any special teams coach who is known for doing a good job.
I would only kick a touchback when your unit is struggling to tackle.
Given that has been the case for the better part of 30 years, it’s easy to understand why so many in our fanbase are gun shy.
Re: Special Teams
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:05 pm
by AppStFan1
AppinVA wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:56 am
AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:51 am
Appster99 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:46 am
AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:10 am
Special teams is outstanding. We need to give Link a big raise and keep him around if we keep it up. People don't realize how stupid it is to just kick out of the back of the endzone. Kick right near goalline and high inside the 5. Give the unit time to get down field and the goal should be to make the stop between the 10 and 20. Very smart to do. Just kicking out of back of the endzone is so dumb.
So every coach in college who trains their kicker and gives scholarships to guys whose only skill is to kick it through the endzone are "so dumb"? I think I might defer to their understanding of the risks of kicking it to the 2 versus a touchback.
What I'm saying is kicking out of the back of the endzone all the time is dumb. The goal is to pin the other team as deep as you can. When you kick a touchback the team is guaranteed to start at the 25. You should be trying to get that extra 5-15 yards by pinning the team deeper.
If a kicker has a monster leg train him to kick it high and near the goalline.
Now, this strategy does not work if you have no speed and your kickoff team can't tackle. If you have that problem then no you should definitely kick out of the back of the endzone.
Link's strategy, assuming he is asking our kicker to kick there for sure, is the ideal strategy. Ask any special teams coach who is known for doing a good job.
I would only kick a touchback when your unit is struggling to tackle.
Given that has been the case for the better part of 30 years, it’s easy to understand why so many in our fanbase are gun shy.
I get that. We have had a couple years previously where special teams was good but nothing like this year and last year. Our special teams unit has to be one of the top 10 or 15 in all of college football. They have been amazing and need to just keep getting better. We will need to be perfect in Columbia.
Re: Special Teams
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:07 pm
by BeauFoster
The main reasons I see for kicking out the back/for a touchback is to limit a dangerous returners touches and to reduce the risk of injuries. Obviously you can’t mitigate both every time, but it can make sense at times.
Re: Special Teams
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:10 pm
by Appster99
AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:51 am
Appster99 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:46 am
AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:10 am
Special teams is outstanding. We need to give Link a big raise and keep him around if we keep it up. People don't realize how stupid it is to just kick out of the back of the endzone. Kick right near goalline and high inside the 5. Give the unit time to get down field and the goal should be to make the stop between the 10 and 20. Very smart to do. Just kicking out of back of the endzone is so dumb.
So every coach in college who trains their kicker and gives scholarships to guys whose only skill is to kick it through the endzone are "so dumb"? I think I might defer to their understanding of the risks of kicking it to the 2 versus a touchback.
What I'm saying is kicking out of the back of the endzone all the time is dumb. The goal is to pin the other team as deep as you can. When you kick a touchback the team is guaranteed to start at the 25. You should be trying to get that extra 5-15 yards by pinning the team deeper.
If a kicker has a monster leg train him to kick it high and near the goalline.
Now, this strategy does not work if you have no speed and your kickoff team can't tackle. If you have that problem then no you should definitely kick out of the back of the endzone.
Link's strategy, assuming he is asking our kicker to kick there for sure, is the ideal strategy. Ask any special teams coach who is known for doing a good job. I would only kick a touchback when your unit is struggling to tackle.
Its about odds and eliminating risk. Kick it through the endzone and there is 100% chance the opponent has to travel at least 75 yards for a touchdown, assuming no penalty on the kicking team that shortens the field further. Allow a return and those odds are less favorable for the kicking team. Even bad teams will make a good play, just as good teams can make a bad play. Eliminate chance and the result is predictable. I understand your stance if we were guaranteed to stop them short of the 25 every time, but we aren't. And calling the philosophy "dumb" is a bit short sighted, IMO.
Re: Special Teams
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:15 pm
by AppinVA
Having the opponent start inside its own 20 is part of, “better than we’ve ever done it before.” I hold my breath, but do so out of habit.
Re: Special Teams
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:25 pm
by HighPointApp
I held my breath on every kick off.
Re: Special Teams
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:59 pm
by AppStFan1
Appster99 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:10 pm
AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:51 am
Appster99 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:46 am
AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:10 am
Special teams is outstanding. We need to give Link a big raise and keep him around if we keep it up. People don't realize how stupid it is to just kick out of the back of the endzone. Kick right near goalline and high inside the 5. Give the unit time to get down field and the goal should be to make the stop between the 10 and 20. Very smart to do. Just kicking out of back of the endzone is so dumb.
So every coach in college who trains their kicker and gives scholarships to guys whose only skill is to kick it through the endzone are "so dumb"? I think I might defer to their understanding of the risks of kicking it to the 2 versus a touchback.
What I'm saying is kicking out of the back of the endzone all the time is dumb. The goal is to pin the other team as deep as you can. When you kick a touchback the team is guaranteed to start at the 25. You should be trying to get that extra 5-15 yards by pinning the team deeper.
If a kicker has a monster leg train him to kick it high and near the goalline.
Now, this strategy does not work if you have no speed and your kickoff team can't tackle. If you have that problem then no you should definitely kick out of the back of the endzone.
Link's strategy, assuming he is asking our kicker to kick there for sure, is the ideal strategy. Ask any special teams coach who is known for doing a good job. I would only kick a touchback when your unit is struggling to tackle.
Its about odds and eliminating risk. Kick it through the endzone and there is 100% chance the opponent has to travel at least 75 yards for a touchdown, assuming no penalty on the kicking team that shortens the field further. Allow a return and those odds are less favorable for the kicking team. Even bad teams will make a good play, just as good teams can make a bad play. Eliminate chance and the result is predictable. I understand your stance if we were guaranteed to stop them short of the 25 every time, but we aren't. And calling the philosophy "dumb" is a bit short sighted, IMO.
Granted it is 100% and I get it. If you can do what we are doing it is the better case. I'll take giving up 2-3 returns past 25-yard line though if the other 30 times we hold the team inside the 15. The longer you can make the field the better.
When I said it was dumb I meant thinking you have to kick out of the back of the endzone every time is dumb. The great kickoff units don't just automatically do it. If I'm up by just 7 and the other team has an All-American kick returner I would kick out of the back of the endzone though. Always exceptions to the rule.
Re: Special Teams
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:50 pm
by appsfan
Appster99 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:30 am
While I enjoy seeing our special teams make big hits and stopping their returners anywhere short of the 25, I tense up just a bit when there is a return. Those collisions after a 40 yard full sprint are often violent, causing injuries. That's the biggest benefit of touchbacks. That and if their returner doesn't have a chance to touch it, there is zero chance of us missing a tackle and them breaking off a long return.
One thing we are forgetting is that the receiving team has an option to fair catch the ball and take possession at the 25. We might start seeing teams do that more against us rather returning the kick with our good coverage results.
Re: Special Teams
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:04 pm
by AppStFan1
appsfan wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:50 pm
Appster99 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:30 am
While I enjoy seeing our special teams make big hits and stopping their returners anywhere short of the 25, I tense up just a bit when there is a return. Those collisions after a 40 yard full sprint are often violent, causing injuries. That's the biggest benefit of touchbacks. That and if their returner doesn't have a chance to touch it, there is zero chance of us missing a tackle and them breaking off a long return.
One thing we are forgetting is that the receiving team has an option to fair catch the ball and take possession at the 25. We might start seeing teams do that more against us rather returning the kick with our good coverage results.
That is something you have to coach. When you catch the ball outside of the endzone it is hard to fair catch. I don't like that rule and feel like if you fair catch it the ball should be placed where the player is standing. Best thing to do is squib if it they start doing that. A lot harder to do then.
Re: Special Teams
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:11 pm
by appsfan
AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:04 pm
appsfan wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:50 pm
Appster99 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:30 am
While I enjoy seeing our special teams make big hits and stopping their returners anywhere short of the 25, I tense up just a bit when there is a return. Those collisions after a 40 yard full sprint are often violent, causing injuries. That's the biggest benefit of touchbacks. That and if their returner doesn't have a chance to touch it, there is zero chance of us missing a tackle and them breaking off a long return.
One thing we are forgetting is that the receiving team has an option to fair catch the ball and take possession at the 25. We might start seeing teams do that more against us rather returning the kick with our good coverage results.
That is something you have to coach. When you catch the ball outside of the endzone it is hard to fair catch. I don't like that rule and feel like if you fair catch it the ball should be placed where the player is standing. Best thing to do is squib if it they start doing that. A lot harder to do then.
I agree it is a coached decision and hard to do. I've seen a few returners, this year, catch the ball inside the 5 and take a knee. Unfortunately, they forgot to signal fair catch and the ball was placed where they took a knee. A squib kick would eliminate a fair catch opportunity as well.