Will this be a growing problem with many bowl games?

[NewApp]

I think we are on the same page. I understand they really are exhibition games. My point though is that the players make a commitment to play the season that the school schedules in turn for a pretty nice compensation that depending on the school can amount from 40-50 thousand dollars into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Commitment has gone by the wayside if we find something better in today's society. Regardless of how the bowls are viewed the season is not over till the bowl you are in is over. So now it's the last game of conference play and the team is not in the hunt for a conference championship. The player says we have nothing to gain by winning so I don't want to take a chance on getting hurt so I'm not playing. Let's go a step further. That last game can make the difference in making a bowl and he doesn't play. They then lose and the entire team loses the extra practice time and a bowl. To me it is all about commitment and the lack of it.

Coach, I think that's one crux of the argument. These games aren't scheduled like the regular season. The program must be invited to the bowl game, which is mainly set up to make money. Their regular season is over. What is their commitment? If said student-athlete completes their degree (December graduate), which I feel is the main commitment between the institution and the student-athlete, prior to the bowl game and plays all originally scheduled regular season games, in your opinion are they still bound to the previous commitment? I realize this does not apply to McCaffrey or Fournette.

I agree with your point that the student-athletes do get "paid" in the form of an education.

Saban weighed in on this issue:

“I think when we created the playoff – which all of you wanted to do and all of you wanted to make it four teams, and now all of you want to make it eight teams, and then pretty soon all you guys are going to want to make it 16 teams – the only focus is on the playoff,” Saban said after the Tide’s practice Wednesday.

“But when we all started this, however many years ago it was, I said that you’re going to diminish the importance of other bowl games in college football, which has happened. All anybody talks about is the playoff."

“We have a whole bunch of other bowl games that people don’t think are all that important. So if you don’t think it’s important, all of a sudden the players don’t think it’s important. So you can’t really blame the players. We created this.”

Saban recalled a trip to the Rose Bowl used to be the “ultimate experience” for any player in the Big Ten. Same for the SEC and the Sugar Bowl and the Big 12 and the Orange Bowl.

“Those things don’t exist anymore,” Saban said. “We have a playoff and everybody is interested in the playoff. Nobody is interested in anything else. So now that that’s trickled down to the players, how could you blame the players for that? I can’t blame the players for that.

“I think what every player has to decide – and what I would say to every player – is I think every player probably benefits from playing really, really well. I think when you play in big games and you play really, really well, I think that enhances your value as a player. … Now, every player would have to make the decision between is that more important, relative to protecting yourself? That’s every player’s choice and every player’s decision.”

My thought is that the season is over when the team is finished playing for the year.If the team is still playing you still have a commitment. I personally don't tie it to a December graduation.

Yep. Don't college baseball teams continue playing in the play-offs in the summer after some seniors have graduated?

[WVAPPeer]

Again, the difference here is the key word - playoffs- not exhibition games - Initially I posed the question as to whether or not this might be a problem going forward and on a whole as a fan I am not supportive of these actions

[AppinVA]

Again, the difference here is the key word - playoffs- not exhibition games - Initially I posed the question as to whether or not this might be a problem going forward and on a whole as a fan I am not supportive of these actions

I don't think the difference between bowls and playoffs matters, and even if it does with these three, it likely won't down the road. These children (men would've lived up to their commitment and, more importantly, teammates) have decided to look out for themselves. Plain and simple.

I do know if I were an NFL general manager, I'd pass on these players and go for someone who values his teammates (which is different than the organization that would likely spit them out when it's done with them) over themselves.

[NewApp]

Again, the difference here is the key word - playoffs- not exhibition games - Initially I posed the question as to whether or not this might be a problem going forward and on a whole as a fan I am not supportive of these actions

One of the main reasons given on this board and the Delphi board for going FBS was the chance of playing in bowl games and now some players don't place much value to participating in them and now you refer to the bowl games as "exhibition" games. I imagine you aren't the only one who feels that way. Evidently some of the players agree with you.

[moonshine]

My thought is that the season is over when the team is finished playing for the year. If the team is still playing you still have a commitment. I personally don't tie it to a December graduation.

Fair enough Coach. I'm more or less playing devil's advocate here as I feel it's a slippery slope but at the same time, I can understand them weighing the cost-benefit. I tend to agree with Saban (shocking) in that the PTB, media and fans have put so much emphasis on the playoffs that it places less value on the other bowls which has a trickle down effect to the players. Again, I don't foresee App having to deal with this problem in the near future as I believe App's players need all the quality film they can get for NFL scouts to breakdown.

[WVAPPeer]

Come on Appinva :>)
You think Joe Mixon's stock will drop significantly in the NFL draft because he beat up a woman? - some will drop him down sure but unfortunately this is about making money - Hasn't Ezekial Elliott been accused of something similar???
Can you believe this - me, Mr. Lollipop Guild, telling you that you are being too "pie in the sky"

And please NewApp - read what I actually post before commenting on what you think I posted ---
"exhibition" wasn't my term and here's my last line from post #1 in this thread ---

" Do you see this becoming more of a problem???
Of course, I really don't care - I love the way our coaches, team and fans get psyched for our game !!!"

[NewApp]

Come on Appinva :>)
You think Joe Mixon's stock will drop significantly in the NFL draft because he beat up a woman? - some will drop him down sure but unfortunately this is about making money - Hasn't Ezekial Elliott been accused of something similar???
Can you believe this - me, Mr. Lollipop Guild, telling you that you are being too "pie in the sky"

And please NewApp - read what I actually post before commenting on what you think I posted ---
"exhibition" wasn't my term and here's my last line from post #1 in this thread ---

" Do you see this becoming more of a problem???
Of course, I really don't care - I love the way our coaches, team and fans get psyched for our game !!!"

Sorry. I thought "exhibition game" was your choice of words and I didn't go back all the way to the beginning of this thread to read your first post.
There are 66 posts in this thread.

[AppinVA]

Come on Appinva :>)
You think Joe Mixon's stock will drop significantly in the NFL draft because he beat up a woman? - some will drop him down sure but unfortunately this is about making money - Hasn't Ezekial Elliott been accused of something similar???
Can you believe this - me, Mr. Lollipop Guild, telling you that you are being too "pie in the sky"

And please NewApp - read what I actually post before commenting on what you think I posted ---
"exhibition" wasn't my term and here's my last line from post #1 in this thread ---

" Do you see this becoming more of a problem???
Of course, I really don't care - I love the way our coaches, team and fans get psyched for our game !!!"

Hand me a lollipop. Make it cherry.

Those are two different situations in terms of what makes a good teammate. And in Mixon's case, the video we saw came out a few years after the offense and subsequent penalty, which, a one year suspension, was a fair one.

[Cro-Magnon App]

Why do people continue to use the words "integrity" and "commitment" when talking about college and professional sports when there is no such thing? The proper word is "money."

[NewApp]

Why do people continue to use the words "integrity" and "commitment" when talking about college and professional sports when there is no such thing? The proper word is "money."

BINGO!

[AppOrange]

Seen all the arguments, I understand them all . . . I still think it is crappy . . . bowl games mean too much to the fans, recruiting and the program going forward to skip out to look out for #1. Any player who does this I question his commitment to anything.

[Yosef84]

I know that is is all about the almighty dollar but, if I were an NFL scout, I would interpret a player's decision sit out the bowl game as a huge negative. It is a piece of information that points to that player's intangible qualities. To me, it shows a lack of competitiveness and a tendency to play scared....putting himself ahead of the team even when there is no imminent threat. If the players were coming off an injury, it would be different but for a healthy athlete to sit out of a bowl game would bother me tremendously. I wouldn't want to give a huge contract to man with that mind set. How can you feel good staking the future of your franchise on a guy who makes decisions this way?

[BUTCH1991]

ESPN was reporting the other day that agents thought they should play in for bowls. And you know agents are all about making money, not what benefits a university. Sounds like they think the players would improve their draft stock by playing.

[WVAPPeer]

So if you are the GM and McCaffrey is available with your pick - would you pass because of missing a "meaningless" game and disregard all he had done for the 3 years he played? ---

[bcoach]

So if you are the GM and McCaffrey is available with your pick - would you pass because of missing a "meaningless" game and disregard all he had done for the 3 years he played? ---

Well the NFL scouts I have been privileged to know over the years one of which spent some time observing at The Rock have told me that it is about can he run, can he throw, can he block, can he catch. Not does he have honor or morals. Just from listening to them talk shop with each other at gatherings I would say no the GM is not going to pass because the guy did not play in a bowl. They are judged by what they do on the field and almost nothing off the field. It is very sad but very true.

[AppinVA]

True, but morals and loyalty to one'S teammates are totally different things.

[AppSt94]

So if you are the GM and McCaffrey is available with your pick - would you pass because of missing a "meaningless" game and disregard all he had done for the 3 years he played? ---

If I was a GM, yes. But I am not a GM. Sitting out a bowl game when you are healthy, or you don't want to risk potential earnings at the next level is selfish and that type of character trait could disrupt the chemistry of my locker room. So given the amount of money I would invest in that player I find it to be a bit of a risk to my teams long term success. My opinion.

[bcoach]

True, but morals and loyalty to one'S teammates are totally different things.

From what he has told be they will take a guy with problems and if it becomes a team problem they can cut him. I have to tell you they really are looked at as a hunk of beef that if spoiled you throw it out but you do buy it to begin with. Please don't think it is my opinion because I am the direct opposite. Guy walks out before the bowl game or any season over game and I don't touch the guy no matter how good he is.

[AppinVA]

True, but morals and loyalty to one'S teammates are totally different things.

From what he has told be they will take a guy with problems and if it becomes a team problem they can cut him. I have to tell you they really are looked at as a hunk of beef that if spoiled you throw it out but you do buy it to begin with. Please don't think it is my opinion because I am the direct opposite. Guy walks out before the bowl game or any season over game and I don't touch the guy no matter how good he is.

I don't think it's your opinion. We're 100 percent in agreement on this issue. I made the careful distinction of loyalty to one's teammates, rather than the organization, which you're correct in stating that it's basically a meat market as far as the team is concerned.

Shopping at Costco on Tuesday nights has taught me that I'd rather have a prime-grade sirloin over a choice-grade filet. But I don't have the budget NFL teams do to go buy a new steak whenever I feel like it, so I've learned to make my choices count.

One thing I will do is pull for Stanford and LSU. I want their teammates to show that they can win without their star players, and for their replacements to be named MVP of their respective games.

[bcoach]

True, but morals and loyalty to one'S teammates are totally different things.

From what he has told be they will take a guy with problems and if it becomes a team problem they can cut him. I have to tell you they really are looked at as a hunk of beef that if spoiled you throw it out but you do buy it to begin with. Please don't think it is my opinion because I am the direct opposite. Guy walks out before the bowl game or any season over game and I don't touch the guy no matter how good he is.

I don't think it's your opinion. We're 100 percent in agreement on this issue. I made the careful distinction of loyalty to one's teammates, rather than the organization, which you're correct in stating that it's basically a meat market as far as the team is concerned.

Shopping at Costco on Tuesday nights has taught me that I'd rather have a prime-grade sirloin over a choice-grade filet. But I don't have the budget NFL teams do to go buy a new steak whenever I feel like it, so I've learned to make my choices count.

One thing I will do is pull for Stanford and LSU. I want their teammates to show that they can win without their star players, and for their replacements to be named MVP of their respective games.

That would be great