Let's talk about Clark

[appgrad95&97]

I said in 2019 he was a lazy hire. I have seen almost nothing that has proved me wrong.

The Belt has absolutely become a better conference, but we should be in the top 3rd.

I'm putting my maker down: he has to win 5 of the last 7 games. He needs to establish an identity for his program.

Like him or not, it needs to be put up or shut up time.

Thoughts?

So, I posted this in another thread:
If you want us in the Top 1/3, at worst we are 5th out of 14 teams during his tenure with Louisiana and Coastal in an apparent backslide (and that's putting Marshall and JMU above us, with Marshall playing in a weaker conference and JMU not having a complete body of work):

Sun Belt Records since 2020: (includes this year)
Coastal Carolina 33-10 (20-6 in conference)
Louisiana 32-11 (19-6)
App St. 28-15 (17-8)
Troy 25-17 (14-11)
GaSt 22-18 (14-12)
South Ala. 21-20 (12-13)
GaSo 21-24 (10-15)
TxSt 14-27 (9-16)
ArkSt 12-30 (6-19)
ULM 10-29 (5-19)

Marshall 27-13 overall (6-3 in Sun Belt Conference Games)
Southern Miss 14-26 (4-6)
ODU 11-19 (3-7)
JMU 13-3 in FBS (8-2)

Your thoughts?

App State is 29-15 as of last night ULM win, with a 65% winning percentage - 3rd best record in SBC and by the way App State non conference probably more difficult than those others, and ya'll really start a thread like this... and 2-1 in Bowl games let's not forget!!!

Why in the actual hell is this even a discussion.

Marshall and JMU are no different than APP State in winning 1-AA titles, traditions and winning programs.
Coastal will back up after losing Chadwell.

A good AD or Any decent supervisor would compare body's of work in evaluating an employee or Head Coach.

Looking at the completed seasons, App has been 8-3 ('20), 9-4 ('21), and 4-6 ('22) against FBS opponents. 7 of those 21 wins have been against teams that ended their seasons with a winning record.

[appstatealum]

This team has no identity under Clark. That has and will be the underlying issue. Can it be corrected? Yes. But after a few years of the Jekyll/Hyde, I've lost hope that he can develop it at this point. It's unfortunate. I don't understand the sentiment of those who are defending Clark. He's an App State guy all the way through, and I love and support the guy for it. But the program has regressed when we should be progressing. He's had great opportunities to advance the program and hasn't taken hold of those. We go into each game, each season with a "who the hell knows what will happen" feeling and that's not good. Could it be worse? Yes. Could it be better? Yes. But if you believe we are in good hands with this staff, after what we have seen for a few years, then I guess nothing you see or hear can convince you any different.

[mike87]

Let's talk about Clark. He's an App guy through and through, that's why I support him. He's building a blue collar, run first, inward facing player led program, that's why I support him. He's made great assistant coach hires on a limited budget, that's why I support him. He's made good use of the portal and recruits well, that's why I support him. The program is disciplined. support. He wins more than he loses, and our brand has more national recognition than ever before. support. Finally, he seems to be a genuine good guy, not a douchebag like most of the coaches he competes against. That probably explains why he gets these type threads.

[MrCraig]

This team has no identity under Clark. That has and will be the underlying issue. Can it be corrected? Yes. But after a few years of the Jekyll/Hyde, I've lost hope that he can develop it at this point. It's unfortunate. I don't understand the sentiment of those who are defending Clark. He's an App State guy all the way through, and I love and support the guy for it. But the program has regressed when we should be progressing. He's had great opportunities to advance the program and hasn't taken hold of those. We go into each game, each season with a "who the hell knows what will happen" feeling and that's not good. Could it be worse? Yes. Could it be better? Yes. But if you believe we are in good hands with this staff, after what we have seen for a few years, then I guess nothing you see or hear can convince you any different.

This is my feelings exactly. Clark is not a bad coach, but there's just no identity. They talk about "App State Football," but what is that? What is the team currently doing that is "App State Football"? This was billed as the "reset" season, but most everything looks the same as last year. Same problems; so far, same results.
100% agree that it's the not knowing that is the most frustrating. There's literally not an opponent App plays anymore that you can just about guarantee a win. Is some of that because the conference has gotten better? Sure. But it's also because App doesn't dominate any one position/style/whatever anymore.
If I had to give this team an identity, I'd say it's a box of chocolates.

[appstatealum]

Let's talk about Clark. He's an App guy through and through, that's why I support him. He's building a blue collar, run first, inward facing player led program, that's why I support him. He's made great assistant coach hires on a limited budget, that's why I support him. He's made good use of the portal and recruits well, that's why I support him. The program is disciplined. support. He wins more than he loses, and our brand has more national recognition than ever before. support. Finally, he seems to be a genuine good guy, not a douchebag like most of the coaches he competes against. That probably explains why he gets these type threads.

I'd agree with some of your points and disagree with others. But my previous point stands- people will see and hear what they want to validate their stance. Mine is eye test, things I hear from my team sources and results.

[DenverOfTheEast]

I said in 2019 he was a lazy hire. I have seen almost nothing that has proved me wrong.

The Belt has absolutely become a better conference, but we should be in the top 3rd.

I'm putting my maker down: he has to win 5 of the last 7 games. He needs to establish an identity for his program.

Like him or not, it needs to be put up or shut up time.

Thoughts?

So, I posted this in another thread:
If you want us in the Top 1/3, at worst we are 5th out of 14 teams during his tenure with Louisiana and Coastal in an apparent backslide (and that's putting Marshall and JMU above us, with Marshall playing in a weaker conference and JMU not having a complete body of work):

Sun Belt Records since 2020: (includes this year)
Coastal Carolina 33-10 (20-6 in conference)
Louisiana 32-11 (19-6)
App St. 28-15 (17-8)
Troy 25-17 (14-11)
GaSt 22-18 (14-12)
South Ala. 21-20 (12-13)
GaSo 21-24 (10-15)
TxSt 14-27 (9-16)
ArkSt 12-30 (6-19)
ULM 10-29 (5-19)

Marshall 27-13 overall (6-3 in Sun Belt Conference Games)
Southern Miss 14-26 (4-6)
ODU 11-19 (3-7)
JMU 13-3 in FBS (8-2)

Your thoughts?

App State is 29-15 as of last night ULM win, with a 65% winning percentage - 3rd best record in SBC and by the way App State non conference probably more difficult than those others, and ya'll really start a thread like this... and 2-1 in Bowl games let's not forget!!!

Why in the actual hell is this even a discussion.

Marshall and JMU are no different than APP State in winning 1-AA titles, traditions and winning programs.
Coastal will back up after losing Chadwell.

A good AD or Any decent supervisor would compare body's of work in evaluating an employee or Head Coach.

Looking at the completed seasons, App has been 8-3 ('20), 9-4 ('21), and 4-6 ('22) against FBS opponents. 7 of those 21 wins have been against teams that ended their seasons with a winning record.

Always easy to look in the rearview, when you put together a schedule for the future you can't predict someones record. and that is still 21-13 against FBS schools still a 61% winning percentage.


#TeamClark is 19-3 in Kidd Brewer Stadium - UNC on dropped 2 point conversion, LoserAnna missed a 35 yarder to tie and just got beat up by JMU. Pretty darn good #TeamClarke!

[Saint3333]

We remember the JMU game differently. We were up 28-3 and then choked it away, that was the start of a season unwinding before our eyes.

[t4pizza]

This team has no identity under Clark. That has and will be the underlying issue. Can it be corrected? Yes. But after a few years of the Jekyll/Hyde, I've lost hope that he can develop it at this point. It's unfortunate. I don't understand the sentiment of those who are defending Clark. He's an App State guy all the way through, and I love and support the guy for it. But the program has regressed when we should be progressing. He's had great opportunities to advance the program and hasn't taken hold of those. We go into each game, each season with a "who the hell knows what will happen" feeling and that's not good. Could it be worse? Yes. Could it be better? Yes. But if you believe we are in good hands with this staff, after what we have seen for a few years, then I guess nothing you see or hear can convince you any different.

Completely disagree on the identity of this team. To put it simple, the identity is a team that plays hard, for 4 quarters and NEVER quits until the clock says 0:00. If you don't see that from our team then I don't know what you have been watching. We don't quit. And that is and identity whether you recognize it or not. Sure this team makes mistakes, turnovers have killed us, but we don't ever quit. Also this team is much more disciplined than past teams. We still get penalties but not nearly as many big ones in bad situations (like a personal foul on our 3 and long where we convert but the penalties takes away the first down and makes it third and a mile). We have an identity, we play hard and don't quit.

[PhillyApp1]

I agree the pro Clark and undecided Clark fans.
We will find out in the next 7 games where we stand.

I believe in 1-0

Beat Coastal !!!

[Tru2ASU]

I'm the same, let this season prove if he deserves a long term extension. I realize I'm also more of a homer, and was in favor of keeping Kermit in baseball. If a donor is happy to help get that coaches salary up to 1.3-2.0 mil per year, and if we have another .500 season, then, it's time to move on.

[jmoosen]

I swear some folks just do not get it and just love to complain. We are 3-2 and 2 field goals from 5-0. These kids are playing hard. The coaches are coaching every play. Clark made huge adjustments and hard decisions during the offseason. The strength coach has made a huge difference. Ponce is back. The offense looks 10 times better than last year. 2 great QBs and kids that play hard. The only game we have really struggled is against LM and that is understandable if you ever have to go down there. Humid, Hot, No fans. It's tough. It happened but we won. #BeatTheBeachChickens.

[appstatealum]

This team has no identity under Clark. That has and will be the underlying issue. Can it be corrected? Yes. But after a few years of the Jekyll/Hyde, I've lost hope that he can develop it at this point. It's unfortunate. I don't understand the sentiment of those who are defending Clark. He's an App State guy all the way through, and I love and support the guy for it. But the program has regressed when we should be progressing. He's had great opportunities to advance the program and hasn't taken hold of those. We go into each game, each season with a "who the hell knows what will happen" feeling and that's not good. Could it be worse? Yes. Could it be better? Yes. But if you believe we are in good hands with this staff, after what we have seen for a few years, then I guess nothing you see or hear can convince you any different.

Completely disagree on the identity of this team. To put it simple, the identity is a team that plays hard, for 4 quarters and NEVER quits until the clock says 0:00. If you don't see that from our team then I don't know what you have been watching. We don't quit. And that is and identity whether you recognize it or not. Sure this team makes mistakes, turnovers have killed us, but we don't ever quit. Also this team is much more disciplined than past teams. We still get penalties but not nearly as many big ones in bad situations (like a personal foul on our 3 and long where we convert but the penalties takes away the first down and makes it third and a mile). We have an identity, we play hard and don't quit.

That's why we are in a win one and lose one pattern. That's not an identity, that's part of a culture. Thank God App has retained that part of our culture amidst the shaky foundation last 6 years or so. Football identity is what you take into each games scheme-wise in all 3 phases of the game. It's the foundation upon which you gameplan and its what keeps you grounded when a game is thrown into chaos. It's the totem you try to manipulate the game back to when needed. We haven't had that under Clark. Just facts. Again I hope he turns it around. I was starting to be optimistic until Wyoming happened.

[appstatealum]

I swear some folks just do not get it and just love to complain. We are 3-2 and 2 field goals from 5-0. These kids are playing hard. The coaches are coaching every play. Clark made huge adjustments and hard decisions during the offseason. The strength coach has made a huge difference. Ponce is back. The offense looks 10 times better than last year. 2 great QBs and kids that play hard. The only game we have really struggled is against LM and that is understandable if you ever have to go down there. Humid, Hot, No fans. It's tough. It happened but we won. #BeatTheBeachChickens.

No offense, but it's not complaining. It's evaluating what we have seen and posting it for discussion on a message board. Outside of 1 or 2 extreme posters, both camps have discussed their position cordially. Generalizing the situation and glossing over the glaring mediocrity issue this program has fallen into because we have had a handful of close games go one way or another isn't adding value to the conversation. App needs donors and support to break through to the next level- losing to Wyoming, mediocre football against ULM, and "almosts" against average p5 schools isn't going to move the needle. Yes, we beat A&M last year, and what did we do with that? Parlayed it into what I consider a losing season and missing a bowl game.

If some here are content on being relevant in a small bubble and being a "cute story" every few years, that's fine, but don't shame us alumni who see no ceiling and believe this program has so much further to go.

[AppWyo]

Drinkwitz gutted the program. It takes time to recover from that. Wins come at a cost.

The biggest factor, you pick which, Clark is the first coach to coach through a pandemic, the transfer portal, and Name, Image, and Likeness. You through in the fact that players get another year to play. No one has ever had to coach through those things before let alone all at one time. I believe he has done well. I know everyone else has had to do the same thing, but it is a factor.

Just look at UNC-Ch, they have been nothing since Mack Brown Left and many alumni wanted to get rid of him, because he could not win. Now he is back and they are winning again. They were mostly irrelevant while he was gone. It took time for Jerry Moore to build what he built at Appalachian and it is taking time for Shawn Clark to build upon that. The bottom line is the system works then as it does now. One game does not make a season and one season does not make a career.

Who is to say had Drinkwitz not used App the way he did where would we be now?

[t4pizza]

This team has no identity under Clark. That has and will be the underlying issue. Can it be corrected? Yes. But after a few years of the Jekyll/Hyde, I've lost hope that he can develop it at this point. It's unfortunate. I don't understand the sentiment of those who are defending Clark. He's an App State guy all the way through, and I love and support the guy for it. But the program has regressed when we should be progressing. He's had great opportunities to advance the program and hasn't taken hold of those. We go into each game, each season with a "who the hell knows what will happen" feeling and that's not good. Could it be worse? Yes. Could it be better? Yes. But if you believe we are in good hands with this staff, after what we have seen for a few years, then I guess nothing you see or hear can convince you any different.

Completely disagree on the identity of this team. To put it simple, the identity is a team that plays hard, for 4 quarters and NEVER quits until the clock says 0:00. If you don't see that from our team then I don't know what you have been watching. We don't quit. And that is and identity whether you recognize it or not. Sure this team makes mistakes, turnovers have killed us, but we don't ever quit. Also this team is much more disciplined than past teams. We still get penalties but not nearly as many big ones in bad situations (like a personal foul on our 3 and long where we convert but the penalties takes away the first down and makes it third and a mile). We have an identity, we play hard and don't quit.

That's why we are in a win one and lose one pattern. That's not an identity, that's part of a culture. Thank God App has retained that part of our culture amidst the shaky foundation last 6 years or so. Football identity is what you take into each games scheme-wise in all 3 phases of the game. It's the foundation upon which you gameplan and its what keeps you grounded when a game is thrown into chaos. It's the totem you try to manipulate the game back to when needed. We haven't had that under Clark. Just facts. Again I hope he turns it around. I was starting to be optimistic until Wyoming happened.

We will just have to agree to disagree as to whether or not a team playing hard and never quitting is an an identity or not. I clearly think it is, you clearly don't. I would say that hard nose never quit play is taken into each game scheme-wise in all 3 phases of the game. Please show me a player in any of those 3 phases that doesn't constantly play hard, play through the whistle and keep playing hard until the game is over. Of course it is an identity of this team.

[JTApps1]

I said in 2019 he was a lazy hire. I have seen almost nothing that has proved me wrong.

The Belt has absolutely become a better conference, but we should be in the top 3rd.

I'm putting my maker down: he has to win 5 of the last 7 games. He needs to establish an identity for his program.

Like him or not, it needs to be put up or shut up time.

Thoughts?

So, I posted this in another thread:
If you want us in the Top 1/3, at worst we are 5th out of 14 teams during his tenure with Louisiana and Coastal in an apparent backslide (and that's putting Marshall and JMU above us, with Marshall playing in a weaker conference and JMU not having a complete body of work):

Sun Belt Records since 2020: (includes this year)
Coastal Carolina 33-10 (20-6 in conference)
Louisiana 32-11 (19-6)
App St. 28-15 (17-8)
Troy 25-17 (14-11)
GaSt 22-18 (14-12)
South Ala. 21-20 (12-13)
GaSo 21-24 (10-15)
TxSt 14-27 (9-16)
ArkSt 12-30 (6-19)
ULM 10-29 (5-19)

Marshall 27-13 overall (6-3 in Sun Belt Conference Games)
Southern Miss 14-26 (4-6)
ODU 11-19 (3-7)
JMU 13-3 in FBS (8-2)

Your thoughts?

App State is 29-15 as of last night ULM win, with a 65% winning percentage - 3rd best record in SBC and by the way App State non conference probably more difficult than those others, and ya'll really start a thread like this... and 2-1 in Bowl games let's not forget!!!

Why in the actual hell is this even a discussion.

Marshall and JMU are no different than APP State in winning 1-AA titles, traditions and winning programs.
Coastal will back up after losing Chadwell.

A good AD or Any decent supervisor would compare body's of work in evaluating an employee or Head Coach.

Looking at the completed seasons, App has been 8-3 ('20), 9-4 ('21), and 4-6 ('22) against FBS opponents. 7 of those 21 wins have been against teams that ended their seasons with a winning record.

In Satterfield's 5 FBS seasons he won 44 games against FBS teams. Of those only 14 came against teams with winning records. That works out to 32% which is basically identical to Clark.

[Bigdaddyg1]

I swear I hate the cliche words that some people use without even defining what they are talking about. I read words like culture, brand, style. Those things change. Thank goodness we don't use the style of football like the Citadel or any other run heavy offense. Does anyone really want to watch grind it out boring 17-14 games? I think we have pretty decent balance. I'd personally still like to see tight ends more involved in the passing game but I'll leave that up to our very experienced and knowledgeable coaches.

[appstate77]

Clark has said he wants to hav3 a long time "Jerry Moore" tenure, building the program into something bigger and legendary. This takes time. I'm with Sean. GO APP!

[asumike83]

I think there is a very significant difference between "6-7 wins every year is just fine" and the opinion that with a new quarterback, significant staff turnover and a defense with six first-year starters, a 1-2 win improvement (which would be a 2-3 win improvement against FBS opponents) would be an encouraging sign. If that is the case, it would be hard for me to get onboard with blowing the whole thing up when 16 starters are going to return in '24.

There obviously will not be any decision made on Clark until after the season but with how the roster is set up, it is hard to see him not getting another year if there is improvement. Sputter out to 6-6 again and it's a very different discussion.

Going back and discounting wins is fine, as long as it's consistent. We beat up on a LOT of bad teams in the early Sun Belt years with Satt; does that make his tenure less impressive? I don't think so.

[AppinVA]

I said in 2019 he was a lazy hire. I have seen almost nothing that has proved me wrong.

The Belt has absolutely become a better conference, but we should be in the top 3rd.

I'm putting my maker down: he has to win 5 of the last 7 games. He needs to establish an identity for his program.

Like him or not, it needs to be put up or shut up time.

Thoughts?

So, I posted this in another thread:
If you want us in the Top 1/3, at worst we are 5th out of 14 teams during his tenure with Louisiana and Coastal in an apparent backslide (and that's putting Marshall and JMU above us, with Marshall playing in a weaker conference and JMU not having a complete body of work):

Sun Belt Records since 2020: (includes this year)
Coastal Carolina 33-10 (20-6 in conference)
Louisiana 32-11 (19-6)
App St. 28-15 (17-8)
Troy 25-17 (14-11)
GaSt 22-18 (14-12)
South Ala. 21-20 (12-13)
GaSo 21-24 (10-15)
TxSt 14-27 (9-16)
ArkSt 12-30 (6-19)
ULM 10-29 (5-19)

Marshall 27-13 overall (6-3 in Sun Belt Conference Games)
Southern Miss 14-26 (4-6)
ODU 11-19 (3-7)
JMU 13-3 in FBS (8-2)

Your thoughts?

App State is 29-15 as of last night ULM win, with a 65% winning percentage - 3rd best record in SBC and by the way App State non conference probably more difficult than those others, and ya'll really start a thread like this... and 2-1 in Bowl games let's not forget!!!

Why in the actual hell is this even a discussion.

Marshall and JMU are no different than APP State in winning 1-AA titles, traditions and winning programs.
Coastal will back up after losing Chadwell.

A good AD or Any decent supervisor would compare body's of work in evaluating an employee or Head Coach.

Looking at the completed seasons, App has been 8-3 ('20), 9-4 ('21), and 4-6 ('22) against FBS opponents. 7 of those 21 wins have been against teams that ended their seasons with a winning record.

Always easy to look in the rearview, when you put together a schedule for the future you can't predict someones record. and that is still 21-13 against FBS schools still a 61% winning percentage.


#TeamClark is 19-3 in Kidd Brewer Stadium - UNC on dropped 2 point conversion, LoserAnna missed a 35 yarder to tie and just got beat up by JMU. Pretty darn good #TeamClarke!

Who?