AP Preseason Poll is out

[APP93]

and it's weird. Voters were allowed to rank Big 10 and other schools in the preseason poll, but the next poll, they will not be allowed to be included.

So we're 32, and need 7 teams out to make the Top 25 ...and there are more than 7 teams ahead of us who will not be in the next poll.
Now add in that we have a chance to be undefeated without Wisconsin on the schedule, and we could see ourselves ranked all year long.


AP Poll: Preseason Top 25
RANK TEAM 2019 RECORD POINTS
1 Clemson 14-1 1,520 (38)
2 Ohio State 13-1 1,504 (21)
3 Alabama 11-2 1,422 (2)
4 Georgia 12-2 1,270
5 Oklahoma 12-2 1,269
6 LSU 15-0 1,186 (1)
7 Penn State 11-2 1,147
8 Florida 11-2 1,125
9 Oregon 12-2 1,119
10 Notre Dame 11-2 995
11 Auburn 9-4 852
12 Wisconsin 10-4 840
13 Texas A&M 8-5 764
14 Texas 8-5 703
15 Oklahoma State 8-5 672
16 Michigan 9-4 611
17 USC 8-5 534
18 North Carolina 7-6 496
19 Minnesota 11-2 451
20 Cincinnati 11-3 234
21 UCF 10-3 229
22 Utah 11-3 211
23 Iowa State 7-6 199
24 Iowa 10-3 134
25 Tennessee 8-5 133

Others receiving votes: Memphis 86, Virginia Tech 85, Boise State 68, Arizona State 66, Miami (FL) 42, Louisville 32, Appalachian State 26, Washington 21, Kentucky 20, Indiana 19, Baylor 15, California 11, TCU 9, Virginia 7, Navy 6, Florida State 6, SMU 3, Mississippi State 3, Air Force 3, Northwestern 1, UAB 1


https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/arti ... l-rankings

You are probably right but you are assuming that we have a season. With all the CFB politics and the remaining liability I don't think we have a fall season. I hope I am wrong but I really think the SEC is just kicking the can down the road and will ultimately cancel, along with the rest, in about 2 weeks.

I'm of a different mindset on all of this, and that this is a HUGE opportunity for us.

-potentially more TV coverage since there will be less teams playing.
-potentially a much high TOP 25 ranking.
-And if we go undefeated who knows where we will end up in a bowl scenario, that's if bowl games are played.

Of course all of this hinges on teams playing and navigating the craziness of COVID this year which is the big unknown.

Who cares about a high ranking when 40% of FBS conferences are not playing.

[Deano]

and it's weird. Voters were allowed to rank Big 10 and other schools in the preseason poll, but the next poll, they will not be allowed to be included.

So we're 32, and need 7 teams out to make the Top 25 ...and there are more than 7 teams ahead of us who will not be in the next poll.
Now add in that we have a chance to be undefeated without Wisconsin on the schedule, and we could see ourselves ranked all year long.


AP Poll: Preseason Top 25
RANK TEAM 2019 RECORD POINTS
1 Clemson 14-1 1,520 (38)
2 Ohio State 13-1 1,504 (21)
3 Alabama 11-2 1,422 (2)
4 Georgia 12-2 1,270
5 Oklahoma 12-2 1,269
6 LSU 15-0 1,186 (1)
7 Penn State 11-2 1,147
8 Florida 11-2 1,125
9 Oregon 12-2 1,119
10 Notre Dame 11-2 995
11 Auburn 9-4 852
12 Wisconsin 10-4 840
13 Texas A&M 8-5 764
14 Texas 8-5 703
15 Oklahoma State 8-5 672
16 Michigan 9-4 611
17 USC 8-5 534
18 North Carolina 7-6 496
19 Minnesota 11-2 451
20 Cincinnati 11-3 234
21 UCF 10-3 229
22 Utah 11-3 211
23 Iowa State 7-6 199
24 Iowa 10-3 134
25 Tennessee 8-5 133

Others receiving votes: Memphis 86, Virginia Tech 85, Boise State 68, Arizona State 66, Miami (FL) 42, Louisville 32, Appalachian State 26, Washington 21, Kentucky 20, Indiana 19, Baylor 15, California 11, TCU 9, Virginia 7, Navy 6, Florida State 6, SMU 3, Mississippi State 3, Air Force 3, Northwestern 1, UAB 1


https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/arti ... l-rankings

You are probably right but you are assuming that we have a season. With all the CFB politics and the remaining liability I don't think we have a fall season. I hope I am wrong but I really think the SEC is just kicking the can down the road and will ultimately cancel, along with the rest, in about 2 weeks.

I'm of a different mindset on all of this, and that this is a HUGE opportunity for us.

-potentially more TV coverage since there will be less teams playing.
-potentially a much high TOP 25 ranking.
-And if we go undefeated who knows where we will end up in a bowl scenario, that's if bowl games are played.

Of course all of this hinges on teams playing and navigating the craziness of COVID this year which is the big unknown.

Who cares about a high ranking when 40% of FBS conferences are not playing.

This is exactly the counter point that we are trying to make its about "Optics", regardless of the circumstances if we finish high in the polls this year its a building block and a feather in the cap for recruiters, in short an opportunity. You tell all those young men on our team that have expressed a want to play and give their heart and soul for the team that "this year doesn't matter" and see what you get out of that conversation. Not sure why this is such a hard concept to comprehend.

[HkyMtneer]

and it's weird. Voters were allowed to rank Big 10 and other schools in the preseason poll, but the next poll, they will not be allowed to be included.

So we're 32, and need 7 teams out to make the Top 25 ...and there are more than 7 teams ahead of us who will not be in the next poll.
Now add in that we have a chance to be undefeated without Wisconsin on the schedule, and we could see ourselves ranked all year long.


AP Poll: Preseason Top 25
RANK TEAM 2019 RECORD POINTS
1 Clemson 14-1 1,520 (38)
2 Ohio State 13-1 1,504 (21)
3 Alabama 11-2 1,422 (2)
4 Georgia 12-2 1,270
5 Oklahoma 12-2 1,269
6 LSU 15-0 1,186 (1)
7 Penn State 11-2 1,147
8 Florida 11-2 1,125
9 Oregon 12-2 1,119
10 Notre Dame 11-2 995
11 Auburn 9-4 852
12 Wisconsin 10-4 840
13 Texas A&M 8-5 764
14 Texas 8-5 703
15 Oklahoma State 8-5 672
16 Michigan 9-4 611
17 USC 8-5 534
18 North Carolina 7-6 496
19 Minnesota 11-2 451
20 Cincinnati 11-3 234
21 UCF 10-3 229
22 Utah 11-3 211
23 Iowa State 7-6 199
24 Iowa 10-3 134
25 Tennessee 8-5 133

Others receiving votes: Memphis 86, Virginia Tech 85, Boise State 68, Arizona State 66, Miami (FL) 42, Louisville 32, Appalachian State 26, Washington 21, Kentucky 20, Indiana 19, Baylor 15, California 11, TCU 9, Virginia 7, Navy 6, Florida State 6, SMU 3, Mississippi State 3, Air Force 3, Northwestern 1, UAB 1


https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/arti ... l-rankings

You are probably right but you are assuming that we have a season. With all the CFB politics and the remaining liability I don't think we have a fall season. I hope I am wrong but I really think the SEC is just kicking the can down the road and will ultimately cancel, along with the rest, in about 2 weeks.

I'm of a different mindset on all of this, and that this is a HUGE opportunity for us.

-potentially more TV coverage since there will be less teams playing.
-potentially a much high TOP 25 ranking.
-And if we go undefeated who knows where we will end up in a bowl scenario, that's if bowl games are played.

Of course all of this hinges on teams playing and navigating the craziness of COVID this year which is the big unknown.

Who cares about a high ranking when 40% of FBS conferences are not playing.

Because 14 to 18 year old kids who play football care. We know that any rankings this season, in effect, are "watered-down", and I think those kids (i.e. possible future recruits) are aware as well. Nonetheless, the more times we can see our name mixed in with SEC, ACC, & Big 12 schools the better. The higher we can get the better. Yeah, a couple P5 conferences are missing from the rankings but seeing our name sprinkled around each week is NEVER going to be anything but a positive, even in the midst of a crazy, wacky COVID season. Not to mention, as an alumnus, it's just plain cool and has yet to get old...at least for me.

[EastHallApp]

This is exactly the counter point that we are trying to make its about "Optics", regardless of the circumstances if we finish high in the polls this year its a building block and a feather in the cap for recruiters, in short an opportunity. You tell all those young men on our team that have expressed a want to play and give their heart and soul for the team that "this year doesn't matter" and see what you get out of that conversation. Not sure why this is such a hard concept to comprehend.

Two things can simultaneously be true:

1) If the season happens, players will be competing as hard as ever, and winning games and championships will still be important.

2) The significance of national rankings is different when the field is cut by 40%. A team that finished ranked #20 last year was in the top 15% of the nation; that same ranking this year wouldn't be in the top 25%.

To deny the first point would be insulting. To deny the second would be intellectually dishonest.

[bigdaddyg]

I have always contended that most preseason rankings are pointless but we know that the only way App climbs the meaningful regular season ranking is to start out as high as possible and to also play and beat quality opponents. Well for the most part that last piece won’t be possible this season. It is obvious that we have established ourselves as legit in the eyes of many and now we just have to stay there. The small group from the G5 world includes UCF, Boise, Cincinnati, Memphis and App. There are a few others who are close like ULL. Even though the Big10 and Pac12 are not playing the heavyweights in the south are planning to go. We really don’t recruit out west much and probably not a ton in Big10 country so this season, if played will be more of a southern deal so in my mind potential recruiting in our footprint is ramped up. Keeping my fingers crossed that we play.

[BallantyneApp]

OK, point of order now that I actually clicked the link:

That is not the USA Today poll that gets cited during the season. In fact, it’s not a “poll” at all. It’s just one writer ranking everyone.

The actual coaches poll had us ranked lower than AP, so neither the media nor coaches have us at 13 right now.

Coaches poll, AP poll, phone pole, stripper pole...if App is on it it’s legit to me.

The higher App is, the more legitimate the poll

[Deano]

This is exactly the counter point that we are trying to make its about "Optics", regardless of the circumstances if we finish high in the polls this year its a building block and a feather in the cap for recruiters, in short an opportunity. You tell all those young men on our team that have expressed a want to play and give their heart and soul for the team that "this year doesn't matter" and see what you get out of that conversation. Not sure why this is such a hard concept to comprehend.

Two things can simultaneously be true:

1) If the season happens, players will be competing as hard as ever, and winning games and championships will still be important.

2) The significance of national rankings is different when the field is cut by 40%. A team that finished ranked #20 last year was in the top 15% of the nation; that same ranking this year wouldn't be in the top 25%.

To deny the first point would be insulting. To deny the second would be intellectually dishonest.

Maybe I'm just trying to look on the bright side. My original point was that this season is an opportunity in many ways. Rankings have always been a point of contention because they are very subjective. Even if only 70 teams are playing this year and we finish the season ranked say 13th, that's 57 teams that we are ranked higher than, that's something. Its something that can be used in recruiting. So spin that how you want. I'm sure all the TV sports folks will remind us each week regardless if we win or not that this season is not normal.

[EastHallApp]

This is exactly the counter point that we are trying to make its about "Optics", regardless of the circumstances if we finish high in the polls this year its a building block and a feather in the cap for recruiters, in short an opportunity. You tell all those young men on our team that have expressed a want to play and give their heart and soul for the team that "this year doesn't matter" and see what you get out of that conversation. Not sure why this is such a hard concept to comprehend.

Two things can simultaneously be true:

1) If the season happens, players will be competing as hard as ever, and winning games and championships will still be important.

2) The significance of national rankings is different when the field is cut by 40%. A team that finished ranked #20 last year was in the top 15% of the nation; that same ranking this year wouldn't be in the top 25%.

To deny the first point would be insulting. To deny the second would be intellectually dishonest.

Maybe I'm just trying to look on the bright side. My original point was that this season is an opportunity in many ways. Rankings have always been a point of contention because they are very subjective. Even if only 70 teams are playing this year and we finish the season ranked say 13th, that's 57 teams that we are ranked higher than, that's something. Its something that can be used in recruiting. So spin that how you want. I'm sure all the TV sports folks will remind us each week regardless if we win or not that this season is not normal.

Agreed. Recruiting or not, I want App to win every game we play, as I'm sure we all do. There's plenty for App to play for this year, if it happens.

[AppStFan1]

This is exactly the counter point that we are trying to make its about "Optics", regardless of the circumstances if we finish high in the polls this year its a building block and a feather in the cap for recruiters, in short an opportunity. You tell all those young men on our team that have expressed a want to play and give their heart and soul for the team that "this year doesn't matter" and see what you get out of that conversation. Not sure why this is such a hard concept to comprehend.

Two things can simultaneously be true:

1) If the season happens, players will be competing as hard as ever, and winning games and championships will still be important.

2) The significance of national rankings is different when the field is cut by 40%. A team that finished ranked #20 last year was in the top 15% of the nation; that same ranking this year wouldn't be in the top 25%.

To deny the first point would be insulting. To deny the second would be intellectually dishonest.

Maybe I'm just trying to look on the bright side. My original point was that this season is an opportunity in many ways. Rankings have always been a point of contention because they are very subjective. Even if only 70 teams are playing this year and we finish the season ranked say 13th, that's 57 teams that we are ranked higher than, that's something. Its something that can be used in recruiting. So spin that how you want. I'm sure all the TV sports folks will remind us each week regardless if we win or not that this season is not normal.

Agreed. Recruiting or not, I want App to win every game we play, as I'm sure we all do. There's plenty for App to play for this year, if it happens.

I think we all want to win every game. The issue for us being in the SBC is that our league is considered among the bottom so we need a strong OOC schedule to help us get the NY6 or be ranked very high. This year is the only type of circumstance where we could finish ranked very high despite a strong schedule because 40% of the P5s and 40% of the G5s are not playing, as of this post. I want to win every game this year by double digits and at least 9 of them by 20+. I feel like if we could do that then we will have done what a top 20 team should do against that schedule. If we do play, we need to win every game by a good margin to leave no doubt that this team is a really good team. We have done a lot in FBS but there are 2 things we have not done that we can do and that is go undefeated and play in a NY6 game. If that can't happen this year it is my hope we can do it soon. We certainly have the talent to give us a chance at that.

[AtlAppMan]

Here my question to all.

If App State won the CFP Championship this year, would any of us complain because the Big 10 decided to stay home and not compete against us? I know I would not. Wisconsin would have had their chance at the champ and it would be their choice along with their conference mates who decided not to come out and play ball.

I would claim App was THE OFFICIAL CHAMPION until the end of time for 2020 season. I bet everyone on this board would too.

[mike87]

Here my question to all.

If App State won the CFP Championship this year, would any of us complain because the Big 10 decided to stay home and not compete against us? I know I would not. Wisconsin would have had their chance at the champ and it would be their choice along with their conference mates who decided not to come out and play ball.

I would claim App was THE OFFICIAL CHAMPION until the end of time for 2020 season. I bet everyone on this board would too.

To further that, we would be the official champion. And whatever ranking we achieve is our official ranking. The team is more than the players, it includes the coaches, the support staff and the administration at the school. If 40% aren't playing then our admin has beaten 40% of the other administrators. Teamwork baby. Not our fault they suck.

[Black Saturday]

USA TODAY poll is also out. It doesn't include teams not playing. We are ranked 13th, ULL 23rd.

WOW.

yep, here it is...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 401804001/

I feel we may have outkicked our coverage here. However, let's say we're ranked 13 at the end of the season....can you imagine what kind of bowl we could get, if there is a bowl season?



That could be our money game to make up what we lost with Wisconsin...

Sure there will be a bowl season, the election will be over before then.

[AppStFan1]

Here my question to all.

If App State won the CFP Championship this year, would any of us complain because the Big 10 decided to stay home and not compete against us? I know I would not. Wisconsin would have had their chance at the champ and it would be their choice along with their conference mates who decided not to come out and play ball.

I would claim App was THE OFFICIAL CHAMPION until the end of time for 2020 season. I bet everyone on this board would too.

Exactly. UCF claims a share of a title that they are not even officially recognized for. If we won it we would officially be recognized as the champion. I know it won't happen but if so I would consider beating the SEC, ACC, or Big 12 Champion as good enough to claim the title.

[bcoach]

I hope we go undefeated but no poll this year will have any meaning at all. It reminds me of a true story. Back when i lived in NC I worked for a guy for a short time who had horses. He went to a competition in Nevada and brought back a second place ribbon. His big story to everyone was that the only horse that beat him was owned by Wayne Newton so 2nd was a very big deal. I later found out that there were only two horses who competed in that class at that competition. You can't brag abot top 25 if everyone didn't come.

[spacemonkey]

and it's weird. Voters were allowed to rank Big 10 and other schools in the preseason poll, but the next poll, they will not be allowed to be included.

So we're 32, and need 7 teams out to make the Top 25 ...and there are more than 7 teams ahead of us who will not be in the next poll.
Now add in that we have a chance to be undefeated without Wisconsin on the schedule, and we could see ourselves ranked all year long.


AP Poll: Preseason Top 25
RANK TEAM 2019 RECORD POINTS
1 Clemson 14-1 1,520 (38)
2 Ohio State 13-1 1,504 (21)
3 Alabama 11-2 1,422 (2)
4 Georgia 12-2 1,270
5 Oklahoma 12-2 1,269
6 LSU 15-0 1,186 (1)
7 Penn State 11-2 1,147
8 Florida 11-2 1,125
9 Oregon 12-2 1,119
10 Notre Dame 11-2 995
11 Auburn 9-4 852
12 Wisconsin 10-4 840
13 Texas A&M 8-5 764
14 Texas 8-5 703
15 Oklahoma State 8-5 672
16 Michigan 9-4 611
17 USC 8-5 534
18 North Carolina 7-6 496
19 Minnesota 11-2 451
20 Cincinnati 11-3 234
21 UCF 10-3 229
22 Utah 11-3 211
23 Iowa State 7-6 199
24 Iowa 10-3 134
25 Tennessee 8-5 133

Others receiving votes: Memphis 86, Virginia Tech 85, Boise State 68, Arizona State 66, Miami (FL) 42, Louisville 32, Appalachian State 26, Washington 21, Kentucky 20, Indiana 19, Baylor 15, California 11, TCU 9, Virginia 7, Navy 6, Florida State 6, SMU 3, Mississippi State 3, Air Force 3, Northwestern 1, UAB 1


https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/arti ... l-rankings

You are probably right but you are assuming that we have a season. With all the CFB politics and the remaining liability I don't think we have a fall season. I hope I am wrong but I really think the SEC is just kicking the can down the road and will ultimately cancel, along with the rest, in about 2 weeks.

I'm of a different mindset on all of this, and that this is a HUGE opportunity for us.

-potentially more TV coverage since there will be less teams playing.
-potentially a much high TOP 25 ranking.
-And if we go undefeated who knows where we will end up in a bowl scenario, that's if bowl games are played.

Of course all of this hinges on teams playing and navigating the craziness of COVID this year which is the big unknown.

Who cares about a high ranking when 40% of FBS conferences are not playing.

It is better than finishing with a low ranking when 40% of FBS conferences aren’t playing.

[APP93]

and it's weird. Voters were allowed to rank Big 10 and other schools in the preseason poll, but the next poll, they will not be allowed to be included.

So we're 32, and need 7 teams out to make the Top 25 ...and there are more than 7 teams ahead of us who will not be in the next poll.
Now add in that we have a chance to be undefeated without Wisconsin on the schedule, and we could see ourselves ranked all year long.


AP Poll: Preseason Top 25
RANK TEAM 2019 RECORD POINTS
1 Clemson 14-1 1,520 (38)
2 Ohio State 13-1 1,504 (21)
3 Alabama 11-2 1,422 (2)
4 Georgia 12-2 1,270
5 Oklahoma 12-2 1,269
6 LSU 15-0 1,186 (1)
7 Penn State 11-2 1,147
8 Florida 11-2 1,125
9 Oregon 12-2 1,119
10 Notre Dame 11-2 995
11 Auburn 9-4 852
12 Wisconsin 10-4 840
13 Texas A&M 8-5 764
14 Texas 8-5 703
15 Oklahoma State 8-5 672
16 Michigan 9-4 611
17 USC 8-5 534
18 North Carolina 7-6 496
19 Minnesota 11-2 451
20 Cincinnati 11-3 234
21 UCF 10-3 229
22 Utah 11-3 211
23 Iowa State 7-6 199
24 Iowa 10-3 134
25 Tennessee 8-5 133

Others receiving votes: Memphis 86, Virginia Tech 85, Boise State 68, Arizona State 66, Miami (FL) 42, Louisville 32, Appalachian State 26, Washington 21, Kentucky 20, Indiana 19, Baylor 15, California 11, TCU 9, Virginia 7, Navy 6, Florida State 6, SMU 3, Mississippi State 3, Air Force 3, Northwestern 1, UAB 1


https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/arti ... l-rankings

You are probably right but you are assuming that we have a season. With all the CFB politics and the remaining liability I don't think we have a fall season. I hope I am wrong but I really think the SEC is just kicking the can down the road and will ultimately cancel, along with the rest, in about 2 weeks.

I'm of a different mindset on all of this, and that this is a HUGE opportunity for us.

-potentially more TV coverage since there will be less teams playing.
-potentially a much high TOP 25 ranking.
-And if we go undefeated who knows where we will end up in a bowl scenario, that's if bowl games are played.

Of course all of this hinges on teams playing and navigating the craziness of COVID this year which is the big unknown.

Who cares about a high ranking when 40% of FBS conferences are not playing.

It is better than finishing with a low ranking when 40% of FBS conferences aren’t playing.

App has a "run the table" type schedule (if they stay healthy)...with that schedule, during a normal year, an undefeated app team may end up somewhere around 15-20. This year, it could land them in the top 10.

If it happens, I'll be happy for the players, especially the seniors, that they were able to compete and play during this mess. I'll also be happy and celebrate another SBC championship and maybe end up in a more prestigious bowl game which would be great, the more exposure for the program the better.

But will I forever run around, beating my chest, telling anyone who will listen that app was a top 10 program in 2020, I don't think so...that ranking just will not mean anything. I would rather just say we were a top 20 program 2 years in a row...that was really my point.

[AtlAppMan]

Does anybody think the eventual champion whether it be Clemson, Alabama, or anybody else will give a rip that B1G or PAC-12 didn’t show up at the party this year? Heck no! We should’ve been ranked in top 25 based on last year and our returning team even with full FBS teams. We got shafted. I will not dilute our final ranking just because they chose not to play ball.

[citroknight]

Here my question to all.

If App State won the CFP Championship this year, would any of us complain because the Big 10 decided to stay home and not compete against us? I know I would not. Wisconsin would have had their chance at the champ and it would be their choice along with their conference mates who decided not to come out and play ball.

I would claim App was THE OFFICIAL CHAMPION until the end of time for 2020 season. I bet everyone on this board would too.

Exactly. UCF claims a share of a title that they are not even officially recognized for. If we won it we would officially be recognized as the champion. I know it won't happen but if so I would consider beating the SEC, ACC, or Big 12 Champion as good enough to claim the title.

UCF's title is actually officially recognized. Remember, UCF isn't claiming that they won the CFP championship, the claim is for being FBS champs. Alabama is the CFP champs for 2017. But by being named #1 in the Colley Matrix, a NCAA recognized major selector, the claim is recognized in the NCAA record books. The 2008 Utah team also has a valid claim through a different major selector, Anderson & Hester. I would also 100% support Boise making a claim for some of their best seasons but would understand that it wouldn't be an NCAA recognized claim.

[appdaze]

I think we all need to keep in mind that other schools didn't decide to not play ball this year, they just decided to play ball in the spring. That is a big difference. Those schools could easily argue that the sec and acc could have just moved to the spring with them. All that is going to happen is that these teams will play their conference schedules and maybe a conference tournament. There will be no national champion this fall. There will be no bowl games this fall. Most of these teams will not get through a whole season without having to postpone or even cancel some of their games. W/L records are going to be nuts. There won't be a good way to compare anyone. If anything, bowl games will be in april/may after march madness. They might take the top 10 bowls and have them filled with spring and fall teams. Just because Ohio State, SoCal, and others aren't playing this fall doesn't mean they are going to let the "little schools" get any sizable piece of the pie.

[APP93]

Does anybody think the eventual champion whether it be Clemson, Alabama, or anybody else will give a rip that B1G or PAC-12 didn’t show up at the party this year? Heck no! We should’ve been ranked in top 25 based on last year and our returning team even with full FBS teams. We got shafted. I will not dilute our final ranking just because they chose not to play ball.

In my opinion, there will be an asterisk...people can claim whaterver that want to claim, who cares. The important thing is they were able to have a season.