Will this be a growing problem with many bowl games?

[scatman77]

"I'm old school here so if this is archaic it's only because it is. Those two choosing to not play in their school's team's bowl game is a slap in the face to their team mates, coaches, boosters, and university. It wreaks of selfish pride. If I were their coach and had the power to do it I'd immediately remove their scholarship and ban them from all team functions and the use of any facilities. If they're that worried about the coin then take out an insurance policy and go to the local gym, hire a personal trainer, and get ready for the league. "


So. let me understand - a kid gives everything he has to you, the coach, the university and his team for 3-4 years and now in a meaningless game he decides not to play - even though he has played hurt many times - you are essentially going to kick him off the team?
p.s. - I am most likely more Old-school than you

Maybe so on the old school! However I am in favor of commitment; once that commitment is made I feel it should be fulfilled. Like I mentioned earlier: take out an insurance policy. Maybe it's expensive up front but if all goes well and he gets drafted high then paying the premium won't be an issue. If he does get hurt a few million in pay out from insurance can be a nice investment. As for meaningless games, I understand what you mean but for me (being involved in athletics for 40+ years) there is never a meaningless game. "What is our most important game? The next one."

What about team mates who worked hard to get to that game and the player is an important reason why they earned the bowl berth? To those guys the Tidy Bowl is not meaningless; it's a chance for a bowl championship and bowl ring. I wouldn't think that they want to lose that opportunity because Frank Football wants to improve his draft status.

I guess this is just the changing landscape of collegiate to league sports is going. It's already "1 and done" in college basketball.

[moonshine]

I think at App's current level, these bowl games are a showcase. I don't foresee it being an issue for G5 programs unless a team has a potential 1st round pick. If anything, I'd think the players would want to use the game to improve their draft stock.

As for the players not participating, I understand it and don't begrudge them for looking out for their own future. Coaches leave prior to bowl games every single year. Sure it would be disappointing to see a player from your team not participate but when you're looking at 6-7 figure checks in the near future, why run the risk if no national title is on the line?

This especially applies to RB's who take a constant beating and tend to have a short career in the NFL. Leonard has already had some injuries and McCaffrey's family knows the ins and outs of the NFL.

[huskie3]

Coaches leave prior to bowl games every single year

So why the uproar over players choosing to do the same thing?

[JTApps1]

Is training by running through a few drills really a better way to prep for the draft than competing on the field against another team? Besides, I wonder how many highly touted players have gotten hurt in a bowl to the point it hurt their draft stock?

[proasu89]

Is training by running through a few drills really a better way to prep for the draft than competing on the field against another team? Besides, I wonder how many highly touted players have gotten hurt in a bowl to the point it hurt their draft stock?

Probably very few but Willis McGahee comes to mind.

[NewApp]

Duke was actually in the SoCon back then.

And the game was moved to the east coast due to the fear of a Japanese invasion of the west coast. The Battle of Midway was 6 months in the future so the possibility was in everyone's mind.

It wasn't an invasion they feared, it was the bombing of the Rose Bowl they feared.

[moonshine]

JT, I don't know how many players but the most recent example was ND's Jaylon Smith who tore up his knee against Ohio St. in the Fiesta Bowl. He was projected top 5 and ended up getting drafted 34th on the 2nd day. His contract ended up being worth around $6.1m but had Smith been drafted say 3rd, his contract would've been close to $26m. So his injury cost him approximately $20m.

[WVAPPeer]

"I'm old school here so if this is archaic it's only because it is. Those two choosing to not play in their school's team's bowl game is a slap in the face to their team mates, coaches, boosters, and university. It wreaks of selfish pride. If I were their coach and had the power to do it I'd immediately remove their scholarship and ban them from all team functions and the use of any facilities. If they're that worried about the coin then take out an insurance policy and go to the local gym, hire a personal trainer, and get ready for the league. "


So. let me understand - a kid gives everything he has to you, the coach, the university and his team for 3-4 years and now in a meaningless game he decides not to play - even though he has played hurt many times - you are essentially going to kick him off the team?
p.s. - I am most likely more Old-school than you

Maybe so on the old school! However I am in favor of commitment; once that commitment is made I feel it should be fulfilled. Like I mentioned earlier: take out an insurance policy. Maybe it's expensive up front but if all goes well and he gets drafted high then paying the premium won't be an issue. If he does get hurt a few million in pay out from insurance can be a nice investment. As for meaningless games, I understand what you mean but for me (being involved in athletics for 40+ years) there is never a meaningless game. "What is our most important game? The next one."

What about team mates who worked hard to get to that game and the player is an important reason why they earned the bowl berth? To those guys the Tidy Bowl is not meaningless; it's a chance for a bowl championship and bowl ring. I wouldn't think that they want to lose that opportunity because Frank Football wants to improve his draft status.

I guess this is just the changing landscape of collegiate to league sports is going. It's already "1 and done" in college basketball.

Hey, I'm not arguing your points and as a former coach I agree about the importance of every game but we are looking at some very unique circumstances here ---
Per your question regarding letting teammates down - Not really a concern when playing a "No-count" bowl game - these are supposed to be rewards for the players - PLUS, it gives other players who have worked hard for years a chance to showcase their skills ---
To answer the question about Marcus Cox

[appbio91]

A lot of people believe Colt McCoy sat out most of a NC game to protect his future. If I recall the claim was it was his dad's decision that he sit.

[WVAPPeer]

A lot of people believe Colt McCoy sat out most of a NC game to protect his future. If I recall the claim was it was his dad's decision that he sit.

That is at another level - Yes, I would have a problem with that ---

[scatman77]

"I'm old school here so if this is archaic it's only because it is. Those two choosing to not play in their school's team's bowl game is a slap in the face to their team mates, coaches, boosters, and university. It wreaks of selfish pride. If I were their coach and had the power to do it I'd immediately remove their scholarship and ban them from all team functions and the use of any facilities. If they're that worried about the coin then take out an insurance policy and go to the local gym, hire a personal trainer, and get ready for the league. "


So. let me understand - a kid gives everything he has to you, the coach, the university and his team for 3-4 years and now in a meaningless game he decides not to play - even though he has played hurt many times - you are essentially going to kick him off the team?
p.s. - I am most likely more Old-school than you

Maybe so on the old school! However I am in favor of commitment; once that commitment is made I feel it should be fulfilled. Like I mentioned earlier: take out an insurance policy. Maybe it's expensive up front but if all goes well and he gets drafted high then paying the premium won't be an issue. If he does get hurt a few million in pay out from insurance can be a nice investment. As for meaningless games, I understand what you mean but for me (being involved in athletics for 40+ years) there is never a meaningless game. "What is our most important game? The next one."

What about team mates who worked hard to get to that game and the player is an important reason why they earned the bowl berth? To those guys the Tidy Bowl is not meaningless; it's a chance for a bowl championship and bowl ring. I wouldn't think that they want to lose that opportunity because Frank Football wants to improve his draft status.

I guess this is just the changing landscape of collegiate to league sports is going. It's already "1 and done" in college basketball.

Hey, I'm not arguing your points and as a former coach I agree about the importance of every game but we are looking at some very unique circumstances here ---
Per your question regarding letting teammates down - Not really a concern when playing a "No-count" bowl game - these are supposed to be rewards for the players - PLUS, it gives other players who have worked hard for years a chance to showcase their skills ---
To answer the question about Marcus Cox

Understood. I'm not arguing either, I just don't like the idea. IMO it's as if the college game is nothing more than an audition or minor league for the NFL. I guess you're right in that the 2's and 3's who might not play a lot or at all would now as you say get to show out. That is a positive.

[ASU3432Mi]

NFL could step in and say that an otherwise healthy college player who skips their school's bowl would not be invited to the draft combine and/or could not be picked in 1st round of draft.

[MtnDevil95]

I was discussing this topic at lunch today, and the point was brought up about coaches leaving between the regular season and bowl games, however coaches are explicitly paid and professionals. Technically the athletes are not, so it is a bit different (argue what you will about college athletes being amateurs).

I wonder if the McCaffery and Fournette scenario will open the door for coaches to make what would be very NBA/NFL type decision regarding their starting lineups and/or snap counts? Does a head coach already forced to play his 2nd string QB or RB, decide to give more snaps to other 2nd stringers/underclassmen in an attempt to get them early reps before having to start in September? If Louisville were playing in what the team considered a "mean nothing" bowl, would Petrino consider resting Lamar Jackson to ensure he's healthy for the 2017 season?

I think this is a slippery slope that could lead to further devaluation and forced overhaul of the whole bowl system.

[EastHallApp]

A lot of people believe Colt McCoy sat out most of a NC game to protect his future. If I recall the claim was it was his dad's decision that he sit.

I have never heard that claim. Does anyone believe that who's not a conspiracy theorist nut? He started the game and was injured I believe on the first drive.

[WVAPPeer]

A lot of people believe Colt McCoy sat out most of a NC game to protect his future. If I recall the claim was it was his dad's decision that he sit.

I have never heard that claim. Does anyone believe that who's not a conspiracy theorist nut? He started the game and was injured I believe on the first drive.

East is definitely right about the injury happening early - however, what Appbio states does jog something deep back in my brain as something I remember reading/hearing at the time ---

[appbio91]

A lot of people believe Colt McCoy sat out most of a NC game to protect his future. If I recall the claim was it was his dad's decision that he sit.

I have never heard that claim. Does anyone believe that who's not a conspiracy theorist nut? He started the game and was injured I believe on the first drive.

Not saying I believe it but you have a short memory if you don't remember people questioning the seriousness of the injury or his dad's presence in the locker room when the decision was made. I believe him, you don't reach that level and lay down in an NC but it was discussed.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.s ... mccoy.html

[EastHallApp]

A lot of people believe Colt McCoy sat out most of a NC game to protect his future. If I recall the claim was it was his dad's decision that he sit.

I have never heard that claim. Does anyone believe that who's not a conspiracy theorist nut? He started the game and was injured I believe on the first drive.

Not saying I believe it but you have a short memory if you don't remember people questioning the seriousness of the injury or his dad's presence in the locker room when the decision was made. I believe him, you don't reach that level and lay down in an NC but it was discussed.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.s ... mccoy.html

Thanks, I don't remember that. Wouldn't be the first time. Then again, I can't tell who these people were who were questioning him, I don't think it sounds credible at all, and I don't tend to pay much attention to stuff like that.

[bcoach]

"I'm old school here so if this is archaic it's only because it is. Those two choosing to not play in their school's team's bowl game is a slap in the face to their team mates, coaches, boosters, and university. It wreaks of selfish pride. If I were their coach and had the power to do it I'd immediately remove their scholarship and ban them from all team functions and the use of any facilities. If they're that worried about the coin then take out an insurance policy and go to the local gym, hire a personal trainer, and get ready for the league. "


So. let me understand - a kid gives everything he has to you, the coach, the university and his team for 3-4 years and now in a meaningless game he decides not to play - even though he has played hurt many times - you are essentially going to kick him off the team?
p.s. - I am most likely more Old-school than you

Well yes. He was paid to play all the games not just the ones he chooses to play.

[bcoach]

JT, I don't know how many players but the most recent example was ND's Jaylon Smith who tore up his knee against Ohio St. in the Fiesta Bowl. He was projected top 5 and ended up getting drafted 34th on the 2nd day. His contract ended up being worth around $6.1m but had Smith been drafted say 3rd, his contract would've been close to $26m. So his injury cost him approximately $20m.

Kind of hard to feel sorry for a guy who got $6.1m but I understand your point. What if the same injury happened in the previous game?

[EastHallApp]

"I'm old school here so if this is archaic it's only because it is. Those two choosing to not play in their school's team's bowl game is a slap in the face to their team mates, coaches, boosters, and university. It wreaks of selfish pride. If I were their coach and had the power to do it I'd immediately remove their scholarship and ban them from all team functions and the use of any facilities. If they're that worried about the coin then take out an insurance policy and go to the local gym, hire a personal trainer, and get ready for the league. "


So. let me understand - a kid gives everything he has to you, the coach, the university and his team for 3-4 years and now in a meaningless game he decides not to play - even though he has played hurt many times - you are essentially going to kick him off the team?
p.s. - I am most likely more Old-school than you

Well yes. He was paid to play all the games not just the ones he chooses to play.

He was paid?