The cancer on this program is

[AppKing21]

The cancer on this program are the fans like WVAPPer who are content with mediocrity because Shawn is an App guy. Quit making excuses. All of App's problems this season were known well before the hurricane happened. Yesterday's score wasn't a fluke, it has been a season long problem that has not been addressed.

My biggest fear is that the hurricane will be used as an excuse to keep Shawn around another year. This program is in decline. Keeping him around another year does more harm than good at this point. We are on the road to becoming eternally mediocre like Charlotte if he stays.

[bcoach]

I don't think there is a cancer. Just a whole bunch of folks wanting the alumni and one of biggest fans of the program to be successful. It has failed to the point of embarrassment. Gillen is going to follow the directions of the big donors just like any other AD to keep a job. Gillen isn't a cancer and Clark isn't the answer. My fear is even at G5 level our limitations will be the players we can afford to hire in NIL. That may actually be the cancer that is killing us.

You have to remember that we are playing peer programs. So NIL isn’t the issue when USA and Marshall beat up on us. I wouldn’t have said this a few weeks ago but I think we are making too much out of the whole NIL thing. NIL will create an even greater gap between the P4 and the G5 but it shouldn’t hurt us against Sun Belt teams.

I don’t think we have a “cancer”. Just a really good guy who isn’t working out as a head coach.

Nice level headed post. It’s just not worked out.

The people that think that Marshall or south Alabama have some nil slush fund are completely wrong.

I agree with you both. Marshall is same boat as us, they aren't good either. I was thinking more JMU, Boise or even a TxSt coming from nowhere on the NIL part. There are G5 that will be showing up as we backslide due to lack of $$.

JMU and TxSt are not bigger NIL hitters than us.

jmu absolutly is. I have no idea about TxSt but jmu is.

[bcoach]

Didn’t he hire Drink too? Was that a bad hire?

Drink was his 5th choice my guy. Drink fell in his lap -- don't act like he found Drink

and 100 different coaches coulda won with that 2019 team.

Clark is not one of those 100.

We will sure have to disagree on that one.

[AppinVA]

I have been down this road way too many times since becoming a true APP fan - I'm not going to be getting into a back and forth on this as this is all I can say.

We were here last year with basically most of the same guys wanting the coach/es fired, in fact it has happened for many years. My first season as a real fan the signs I remember seeing were FIRE LANEY. I had no idea why as I was new to the program. As was mentioned previously there were FIRE MOORE periods of time even after he became the GOAT. And absolutely there was a pretty severe period of FIRE SATTERFIELD crap as well as posting a picture of a For Sale sign in front of the house. Drink wasn't here long enough to join this group but his assistant/s made the "big time".
I am not happy about how the team has looked/played this season, I'm sure no one is but what I would like to question those of you who are on the FIRE TRAIN, to tell me who / which program has maintained the level of APP over the last 10 years, particularly in the SunBelt. Other than just a small handful of elite P4 programs just about everyone else has been on the roller coaster ride during this time frame.
I have never blamed the status of where some believe the program is right now on Drink, Covid, NIL, Portal (although I did hear yesterday that Nate Noel was the 2nd leading rusher in the SEC and McLeod is rated one of the top pro prospects at his position) as there are problems other programs have to deal with. I do believe APP has picked up more overall talent than we have lost.
My feeling is regardless of how the rest of the season goes, Coach Clark should not be fired. In little over a week this program and university and community and its people have had their world turned upside down. No, we weren't playing at the level we expect before this happened but I'm not sure that some of the guys and coaches will get over this anytime soon.
So, you want to call in Coach Clark, AD Gillan, and all the assistant coaches and their families and tell them they are FIRED and of course, thank them for all they've done and we're sorry about all their losses (NOT Football losses) and See Ya Later?
Not a one of your guys on the FIRE THE COACHES TRAIN would have the balls to do that even if were justified - which it isn't.
That's all ---

HEAD COACH AT APP STATE (35-18 RECORD) 37-21
Year Overall League (Finish) Bowl (W/L)
2019 1-0 Took over after regular season New Orleans (W)
2020 9-3 6-2 (2nd East, 3rd Overall) Myrtle Beach (W)
2021 10-4 7-1 (1st East, 2nd Overall) Boca Raton (L)
2022 6-6 3-5 (4th East)
2023 9-5 6-2 (1st East, 3rd Overall) Cure (W)

3 STRAIGHT YEARS WITH A RANKED WIN
2021: 30-27 vs. #14 Coastal Carolina
2022: 17-14 at #6 Texas A&M
2023: 26-23 (OT) at #18 James Madison

Let’s play a game of change the nouns…to West Virginia.

A simple search of that users posts for “Neal brown” will tell you which program he’s invested in winning and which program he’s here “just for the hell of it”.

If Neal brown we’re losing to conference mates by 5 tds he would be lead pitchfork.

I don’t have anywhere to go when things are bad. Others do, which allows them to be more patient, I guess. Some who don’t have anywhere to go, do have access they’re going to lose if a change were to come. And sadly, they value that access over the health of the program.

[Seattleapp]

You make a lot of good points above. I don't think most App fans expect ten win seasons every year. But the drop off with the football program has shocked me (I don't think I'm alone). Before last night had us 90 out of 264 division I teams-that'll fall further.

With respect to Gillin, specifically, let me say a few things: First, I think his first five years were absolutely fantastic. Like the football team, the last five years not great.

1. I said in 2019 that Clark was a lazy hire, buy I wished him well and hoped he would grow into the job.
2. I was not crazy about dropping programs.
3. While I really hoped Clark would grow into the job, it doesn't seem like he has or will. That makes me question his extention.
4. I have raised concerns about the finances for all the proposed facilities plans. About two years ago "funding was secured" for the East tower. I believe (from the Sept. BOT meeting), the reality is we have $20 million is soft commitments.
5. Basketball is finally looking good again. I'm not sure that raising season ticket prices makes a lot of sense. I think we should be trying to add season ticket holders not discouraging them.
6. I don't understand why he used part of his presentation at the BOT to claim the community doesn't invest enough in athletics.

I fully recognize there is room to disagree agree with every single point I've raised. But my opinion is that there are concerns out there.

I hope you don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back with your “clark was a lazy hire”. How many more times are you gonna say it? And while some on here have pretty good insights both pro and con Clark, you sure don’t. You are the same person who was all in on Rich Rodriguez and recently floated Scott Frost as a better option. That right there shows you know zero about coaching hires. So why don’t you pump the brakes.

[AppfaninCAALand]

1. I said in 2019 that Clark was a lazy hire, buy I wished him well and hoped he would grow into the job.

3. While I really hoped Clark would grow into the job, it doesn't seem like he has or will. That makes me question his extention.

I thought at the time, and probably said on here, that Clark would be one of those coaches that would not be good enough to be hired away to a "bigger" school, but also not bad enough to fire. So far, that has been true. Time will tell on this season.

As for a "lazy hire", anytime you just elevate an assistant coach to fill a head coach vacancy, it is a lazy hire. That doesn't mean its a bad move, sometimes it works out great. Elevating assistant field hockey coach Emily Dinsmore was a lazy hire by Gillan as well, but were it not for blowning late 4th quarter leads vs Richmond and VCU a few weeks back, she could quite likely have App State field hockey nationally ranked, and that would have been an unthinkable occurance only a few short years ago for sure.

Anyway, I hope Clark can turn it around and become a lazy hire that worked out, but my hope is fading.

Great take.

Not that I think App State field hockey is quite deserving of a national ranking at this point. They are a solid middle third team who will compete for a conference title, but not on the level of a powerhouse program, as witnessed this afternoon in Lynchburg https://stats.statbroadcast.com/mobile/?id=542190.

And I do have my reasoning to think that may turn out to be another unfortunate lazy hire that I won't go into here.

[appgrad95&97]

You make a lot of good points above. I don't think most App fans expect ten win seasons every year. But the drop off with the football program has shocked me (I don't think I'm alone). Before last night had us 90 out of 264 division I teams-that'll fall further.

With respect to Gillin, specifically, let me say a few things: First, I think his first five years were absolutely fantastic. Like the football team, the last five years not great.

1. I said in 2019 that Clark was a lazy hire, buy I wished him well and hoped he would grow into the job.
2. I was not crazy about dropping programs.
3. While I really hoped Clark would grow into the job, it doesn't seem like he has or will. That makes me question his extention.
4. I have raised concerns about the finances for all the proposed facilities plans. About two years ago "funding was secured" for the East tower. I believe (from the Sept. BOT meeting), the reality is we have $20 million is soft commitments.
5. Basketball is finally looking good again. I'm not sure that raising season ticket prices makes a lot of sense. I think we should be trying to add season ticket holders not discouraging them.
6. I don't understand why he used part of his presentation at the BOT to claim the community doesn't invest enough in athletics.

I fully recognize there is room to disagree agree with every single point I've raised. But my opinion is that there are concerns out there.

I hope you don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back with your “clark was a lazy hire”. How many more times are you gonna say it? And while some on here have pretty good insights both pro and con Clark, you sure don’t. You are the same person who was all in on Rich Rodriguez and recently floated Scott Frost as a better option. That right there shows you know zero about coaching hires. So why don’t you pump the brakes.

Done. Breaks pumped.

[bcoach]

It takes money to make money. And we don't have it.

App has the most valuable brand in the Sun Belt by $30 million. Apparently App’s football brand value is $125 million and the next closest is Marshall at $80 million.

App either needs to leverage that in the Sun Belt or needs to leave the Sun Belt and see if the AAC is a possibility, while arguing for a full share in pay.

I can also tell you that South Alabama and Marshall are not paying more money than App State is. NIL existed in 2022 when Notre Dame and Texas A&M fell. It exists this year where Vanderbilt took Missouri to OT and just beat Alabama.


The issue isn’t money. The issue right now, as far as I can tell, is a confluence of issues with injuries and head coaching deficiencies.

I am all in favor of bringing in Tre Lamb or seeing what Ponce could do leading a program. Someone argued that “we don’t need someone learning on the job” in regards to Tre Lamb but that is exactly what Satterfield, Drinkwitz, and Clark have done. Lamb would be the first head coach with actual Head Coaching experience that App has brought in since the 80’s.


Football is changing and App, predictably, has not really evolved beyond what was going on in 2018. The defense is the same, the offensive scheme is more of an air raid but it is very straight forward. Sloan has continued the slide we saw under Dale Jones and it has hit rock bottom now. The worst since what, 2002?

Time to see if you can go after someone who has been successful everywhere they have been.

How is " brand value" determined?

[Bootsy]

It takes money to make money. And we don't have it.

App has the most valuable brand in the Sun Belt by $30 million. Apparently App’s football brand value is $125 million and the next closest is Marshall at $80 million.

App either needs to leverage that in the Sun Belt or needs to leave the Sun Belt and see if the AAC is a possibility, while arguing for a full share in pay.

I can also tell you that South Alabama and Marshall are not paying more money than App State is. NIL existed in 2022 when Notre Dame and Texas A&M fell. It exists this year where Vanderbilt took Missouri to OT and just beat Alabama.


The issue isn’t money. The issue right now, as far as I can tell, is a confluence of issues with injuries and head coaching deficiencies.

I am all in favor of bringing in Tre Lamb or seeing what Ponce could do leading a program. Someone argued that “we don’t need someone learning on the job” in regards to Tre Lamb but that is exactly what Satterfield, Drinkwitz, and Clark have done. Lamb would be the first head coach with actual Head Coaching experience that App has brought in since the 80’s.


Football is changing and App, predictably, has not really evolved beyond what was going on in 2018. The defense is the same, the offensive scheme is more of an air raid but it is very straight forward. Sloan has continued the slide we saw under Dale Jones and it has hit rock bottom now. The worst since what, 2002?

Time to see if you can go after someone who has been successful everywhere they have been.

Fair points, but would you please provide references on how these numbers were determined? Very interesting valuations, sir. Thanks!

[appdaze]

I've beat this drum already, and I'll keep going. Please stop with the App retreads and "App family." Our next coach needs to be fresh blood. A young, hungry, up-and-comer. I still think we should throw the TN OC an offer when the time comes.

https://utsports.com/staff-directory/jo ... 0Athletics

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/21

[NewApp]

1. I said in 2019 that Clark was a lazy hire, buy I wished him well and hoped he would grow into the job.

3. While I really hoped Clark would grow into the job, it doesn't seem like he has or will. That makes me question his extention.

I thought at the time, and probably said on here, that Clark would be one of those coaches that would not be good enough to be hired away to a "bigger" school, but also not bad enough to fire. So far, that has been true. Time will tell on this season.

As for a "lazy hire", anytime you just elevate an assistant coach to fill a head coach vacancy, it is a lazy hire. That doesn't mean its a bad move, sometimes it works out great. Elevating assistant field hockey coach Emily Dinsmore was a lazy hire by Gillan as well, but were it not for blowning late 4th quarter leads vs Richmond and VCU a few weeks back, she could quite likely have App State field hockey nationally ranked, and that would have been an unthinkable occurance only a few short years ago for sure.

Anyway, I hope Clark can turn it around and become a lazy hire that worked out, but my hope is fading.

As for a "lazy hire", anytime you just elevate an assistant coach to fill a head coach vacancy, it is a lazy hire.

So Satterfield was a lazy hire?

[NewApp]

I've beat this drum already, and I'll keep going. Please stop with the App retreads and "App family." Our next coach needs to be fresh blood. A young, hungry, up-and-comer. I still think we should throw the TN OC an offer when the time comes.

https://utsports.com/staff-directory/jo ... 0Athletics

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/21

Sounds like Mike Working. And how did that work out?

[Woodstovegang]

I have been down this road way too many times since becoming a true APP fan - I'm not going to be getting into a back and forth on this as this is all I can say.

We were here last year with basically most of the same guys wanting the coach/es fired, in fact it has happened for many years. My first season as a real fan the signs I remember seeing were FIRE LANEY. I had no idea why as I was new to the program. As was mentioned previously there were FIRE MOORE periods of time even after he became the GOAT. And absolutely there was a pretty severe period of FIRE SATTERFIELD crap as well as posting a picture of a For Sale sign in front of the house. Drink wasn't here long enough to join this group but his assistant/s made the "big time".
I am not happy about how the team has looked/played this season, I'm sure no one is but what I would like to question those of you who are on the FIRE TRAIN, to tell me who / which program has maintained the level of APP over the last 10 years, particularly in the SunBelt. Other than just a small handful of elite P4 programs just about everyone else has been on the roller coaster ride during this time frame.
I have never blamed the status of where some believe the program is right now on Drink, Covid, NIL, Portal (although I did hear yesterday that Nate Noel was the 2nd leading rusher in the SEC and McLeod is rated one of the top pro prospects at his position) as there are problems other programs have to deal with. I do believe APP has picked up more overall talent than we have lost.
My feeling is regardless of how the rest of the season goes, Coach Clark should not be fired. In little over a week this program and university and community and its people have had their world turned upside down. No, we weren't playing at the level we expect before this happened but I'm not sure that some of the guys and coaches will get over this anytime soon.
So, you want to call in Coach Clark, AD Gillan, and all the assistant coaches and their families and tell them they are FIRED and of course, thank them for all they've done and we're sorry about all their losses (NOT Football losses) and See Ya Later?
Not a one of your guys on the FIRE THE COACHES TRAIN would have the balls to do that even if were justified - which it isn't.
That's all ---

HEAD COACH AT APP STATE (35-18 RECORD) 37-21
Year Overall League (Finish) Bowl (W/L)
2019 1-0 Took over after regular season New Orleans (W)
2020 9-3 6-2 (2nd East, 3rd Overall) Myrtle Beach (W)
2021 10-4 7-1 (1st East, 2nd Overall) Boca Raton (L)
2022 6-6 3-5 (4th East)
2023 9-5 6-2 (1st East, 3rd Overall) Cure (W)

3 STRAIGHT YEARS WITH A RANKED WIN
2021: 30-27 vs. #14 Coastal Carolina
2022: 17-14 at #6 Texas A&M
2023: 26-23 (OT) at #18 James Madison
I hate that I agree with this post, because most I think he an old crazy gu; BUT...... Hell yeah support the team on the field and keep comments to yourself. It helps ZERO for future players to sign.

['75App]

Doug Gillen is not the problem with App State Football!

GO APPS!

[AppWyo]

There is no disease on this program. This program has done well to be as consistent as it has been over the past five years with the changes to college football that have occurred, as well as, a pandemic, a player's death and now a hurricane. The biggest problem this program has is a few fans that are delusional in their expectations, but are so loud they are trying to drown out reason.

Congratulations Appalachian Football, we now have the big time fans of the Alabama's, the Tennessee's, the Michigan's, the Ohio State's, the Texas's, the USC's, the FSU's, the Miami's, the Florida's, the etcetera.

Someone suggested we needed a coach with a winning record. We have a coach with a winning record.

[Pikapp79]

At this point if you think Clark is the answer then he is more important to you than the program.

[hapapp]

It takes money to make money. And we don't have it.

App has the most valuable brand in the Sun Belt by $30 million. Apparently App’s football brand value is $125 million and the next closest is Marshall at $80 million.

App either needs to leverage that in the Sun Belt or needs to leave the Sun Belt and see if the AAC is a possibility, while arguing for a full share in pay.

I can also tell you that South Alabama and Marshall are not paying more money than App State is. NIL existed in 2022 when Notre Dame and Texas A&M fell. It exists this year where Vanderbilt took Missouri to OT and just beat Alabama.


The issue isn’t money. The issue right now, as far as I can tell, is a confluence of issues with injuries and head coaching deficiencies.

I am all in favor of bringing in Tre Lamb or seeing what Ponce could do leading a program. Someone argued that “we don’t need someone learning on the job” in regards to Tre Lamb but that is exactly what Satterfield, Drinkwitz, and Clark have done. Lamb would be the first head coach with actual Head Coaching experience that App has brought in since the 80’s.


Football is changing and App, predictably, has not really evolved beyond what was going on in 2018. The defense is the same, the offensive scheme is more of an air raid but it is very straight forward. Sloan has continued the slide we saw under Dale Jones and it has hit rock bottom now. The worst since what, 2002?

Time to see if you can go after someone who has been successful everywhere they have been.

Fair points, but would you please provide references on how these numbers were determined? Very interesting valuations, sir. Thanks!

Not sure what he's referencing but this is what the conference put out with reference to media valuations:
https://www.nvdaily.com/nvdaily/dukes-a ... 5c8d9.html

[AppWyo]

At this point if you think Clark is the answer then he is more important to you than the program.

The program is the people...

The people should matter more than the score on the scoreboard.

[AppinVA]

At this point if you think Clark is the answer then he is more important to you than the program.

The program is the people...

The people should matter more than the score on the scoreboard.

Your argument would ring a lot more clear if you didn’t have the logo of another team in your YOSEF’S CABIN profile. But that’s just me.

Just another poster with a fallback team.

[appdaze]

I've beat this drum already, and I'll keep going. Please stop with the App retreads and "App family." Our next coach needs to be fresh blood. A young, hungry, up-and-comer. I still think we should throw the TN OC an offer when the time comes.

https://utsports.com/staff-directory/jo ... 0Athletics

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/21

Sounds like Mike Working. And how did that work out?

Its a completely different situation with a completely different resume in a completely, and incomparable, era of college football. I would absolutely take a young up and comer who is eager to win instead of another retread ready to settle into mediocrity.