We've been Spoiled

[AtlAppMan]

I don't like calling us Spoiled either. Let me explain my reason.

Remember our goals, as this is VERY IMPORTANT to this conversation: Move UP to FBS and establish a consistently highly successful top performing football program among our peers (G5). This would mimic the Boise St example and as a result would have App be recognized as a top 10 G5 year over year and top 25 overall most years. These are reasonable and achievable by App State.

To accomplish this we need to build a foundation of talent through superior recruiting and superior coaching year over year vs our peers. There may be bumps in the roads in some years but we need to continue to improve year over year. That means we have to out perform our peers not match them or under perform against them like this year. When analyzing our performance we have to also take into consideration our SOS. We are NOT playing a P5 schedule. We are playing a SB schedule which is full of teams in the bottom quarter of FBS rankings. I don't like when people on this board are not willing to truthfully assess our performance and call out the good AND the bad across our program. I don't mean nasty negative but rationale self analysis. If you are not willing to recognize your warts and correct them then we will never achieve our ultimate goals. Those individuals who are not willing to truthfully self reflect will always make excuses for mediocrity as some on this board are doing. There are real signs this season that are very concerning as they could be indicators that we have regressed (i.e. weakness in recruiting and various coaching decisions). We have to address those by first being truthful to ourselves. I believe we have the coach to lead if we do the right things. Our goal is to be a top performer. I don't agree with the notion of being SPOILED for that reason.

[AppSt94]

Very well said AtlAppMan. i do thing that we have problems and that they need to be corrected, but I don't see these as historical problems that are a cause for alarm. Penalties are up this year significantly this year over the past two years. Cause for pause? Yes. Cause for alarm? Maybe if it continues. Missed assignment are up this year. Why? Coaching? Maybe. An enormous amount of youth playing before they are truly ready? Quite possible. Mental mistakes, see above. The point is that football has too many variables and moving parts, making it difficult to pinpoint the one thing causing the end results. Maybe it is a combination of all of them, maybe it is simply one of them. Those of us making excuses are simply looking past the scoreboard and record to assess what is going on.

[samplessjs]

WVApp-I think we are at a stalemate so let's move on....
'94-If we are getting better players now than when we were FCS then why is our computer rating (by all sources) lower than when we played in the SoCon? We are currently 89 on Sagarin. The NC teams were in the 60-70's. On the subject of losing players to ECU, we only have to go back to last year. Our top O line commit decommitted the minute he got an ECU offer. He is now a pirate.

[AppGrad78]

I think you’re talking about Spencer Clapp, who signed with Wake Forest.

[AppSt94]

WVApp-I think we are at a stalemate so let's move on....
'94-If we are getting better players now than when we were FCS then why is our computer rating (by all sources) lower than when we played in the SoCon? We are currently 89 on Sagarin. The NC teams were in the 60-70's. On the subject of losing players to ECU, we only have to go back to last year. Our top O line commit decommitted the minute he got an ECU offer. He is now a pirate.

Oh my God, a computer ranking has us at 89. What ever will we do? The NC teams were special but where were we in 08, 09, 11? The only ranking that I care about is where are we in terms of the conference and we are 4-1. We play the team that is lined up in front of you, and you play based on variables, such as injuries, talent, play calling and strengths and weaknesses. I am a stats guy, I love them, but stats are not the penultimate answer. They are the driver to questions.

Has for the recruit. Please bring more than one instance to the table to base your argument. We win plenty of battles for kids. We got Meadors from Wake if I'm not mistaken. Did the recruit state he flipped because it was freaking ECU and we are just App? Probably not.

[AtlAppMan]

Oh my God, a computer ranking has us at 89. What ever will we do?

The last two years we have been consistently in the 35-60 FBS range. Therefore we have regressed. An 89 rating is not good whether you acknowledge it or not. I also want to win the SB and become bowl eligible but if that is all you are gauging success then your bar is way too low. If we are going to be a perennial top G5 we have to be winning against the top SB teams and decisively handling the lower tiered SB teams. This year we are not doing either. We have struggled to win and could have easily lost every SB game with a few plays going the other way. Clearly, your measurement bar is much lower than mine (and numerous others on this board who are trying to point out that fact).

I don't want App to be an FBS program that is satisfied by merely reaching a 6 win bowl eligibility each year especially when playing in the SB. The previous 2-3 yrs, we have been on a positive upward track since joining FBS. I don't want us to fall into a rut of 90+ FBS rating and feel good about it because we managed 6 wins and went to a bowl.

Instead, I want our program to be a premier G5.

[WVAPPeer]

I think you’re talking about Spencer Clapp, who signed with Wake Forest.

Yes - he was next door to us at Eastern Guilford and Yes, he went to WF ---

[samplessjs]

DAnte Smith was the OL who committed to (In the final days before signing day)' us and flipped to ECU when he received an offer.

[AppSt94]

Oh my God, a computer ranking has us at 89. What ever will we do?

The last two years we have been consistently in the 35-60 FBS range. Therefore we have regressed. An 89 rating is not good whether you acknowledge it or not. I also want to win the SB and become bowl eligible but if that is all you are gauging success then your bar is way too low. If we are going to be a perennial top G5 we have to be winning against the top SB teams and decisively handling the lower tiered SB teams. This year we are not doing either. We have struggled to win and could have easily lost every SB game with a few plays going the other way. Clearly, your measurement bar is much lower than mine (and numerous others on this board who are trying to point out that fact).

I don't want App to be an FBS program that is satisfied by merely reaching a 6 win bowl eligibility each year especially when playing in the SB. The previous 2-3 yrs, we have been on a positive upward track since joining FBS. I don't want us to fall into a rut of 90+ FBS rating and feel good about it because we managed 6 wins and went to a bowl.

Instead, I want our program to be a premier G5.

I agree and I have the same aspirations for our team and school as you do. But there is a reason for the regression. That is where you and I disagree. If we were 89 with a healthy Moore, Meadors, Evans, Upshaw, Campbell, Stringer, et all, then I would agree with the argument that we are regressing. But we quite simply have not had the ability to be consistent on offense. Part of what makes our defense go is our offenses capability to make the opposing offense become one dimensional in order to catch up. That hasn't happened this year due to injuries.

Now, I do expect to win out and move up to the mid 70s this year and if we are able to improve that next year behind a green QB then great. But I tend to look past the number and more into the drivers of the numbers. Some call them excuses and that's fine. But I have no control over how this team plays, but I do have faith in those that do.

[ELCubano1]

Anyone can spin the sunshine all they want. This team was picked to win the SBC, has the personnel to do it, and is way, way underperforming. The past two weeks we have lost to teams that are among the worst in the nation. Neither even ranks in the Sagarin top 100!! Acknowledging a step backwards is not being negative, it's stating the obvious. Falling off a mountain half way up should not be expected. 8-4 is a slip...... 6-6 is a fall. And what is this nonsense about "transitioning?" We are in year FOUR of FBS membership The transition is over! That's my two cents.

I agree with sampless. For the most part, the conference teams we are playing this year happen to be some of the worst teams in the FBS. UMass and ULM were pathetic losses and when you add how we barely beat Texas State and Idaho and struggled to beat Coastal, it appears this team is playing down to their competition or perhaps are not as good as everyone expected. Injuries are part of the game and everyone has them. To get to 9-4, the assumption is that we'll win our remaining games plus the bowl game. Going 8-5 will still require a strong finish winning 3 of the last 4. Based on current play, I don't see this happening and playing down to our competition has happened all season long...We might get to 6 wins, but that is a huge drop from 10 and 11 wins the past two seasons...I would love to be more optimistic, but the sick feeling that has remained in the pit of my stomach won't allow me to. I was nervous prior to the ULM game and I still am...

[AppSt94]

DAnte Smith was the OL who committed to (In the final days before signing day)' us and flipped to ECU when he received an offer.

He's played a total of 7 games into his Sophomore year.

[WVAPPeer]

" For the most part, the conference teams we are playing this year happen to be some of the worst teams in the FBS. UMass and ULM were pathetic losses and when you add how we barely beat Texas State and Idaho and struggled to beat Coastal,"

Do you even bother to look up info on any of these teams or do you just label them as sorry teams based on your judgment?

[hapapp]

Coastal 127 (out of 130)
Texas State 124
UMass 120
Idaho 118
NMSU 97
ULM 93

Not exactly a murderer's row.

CBS Sports

[AtlAppMan]

6 teams in the bottom quarter of FBS and we have lost to two and barely won the others. That puts us barely at the top of bottom quarter of FBS.

[NoLongerLurking]

Mmmmph

[WVAPPeer]

Guys we must take into consideration that the SB and generally CUSA (bottom) teams are always going to be in the bottom quarter of the ranking - We play 2/3 of our games against those low ranked teams - That makes it EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to rise in the ratings - teams like the Holes being down there is the anomaly not any of us ---

[AppDawg]

Please never compare us to the tarhole football program... that certainly is not a program we should ever aspire to emulate. Perennial mediocrity...

[WVAPPeer]

Also my point/s were that some of our opponents have played some good games this year and have some good players
--- NM State's QB is 3rd in the country in passing behind only Baker Mayfield and Mason Rudolph\
--- UL-Monroe is in the top 20 NATIONALLY in Total Offense and Scoring Offense
--- Coastal scored 38 at Arkansas
--- UMass was trailing #16 Miss St 27-23 late in the 4th Q and Miss St scored on a Pick-6 and a Punt Return for a TD
--- Texas St closes the season with games against GaSt, Troy and Ark St - don't be surprised if they win one of these

[WVAPPeer]

Please never compare us to the tarhole football program... that certainly is not a program we should ever aspire to emulate. Perennial mediocrity...

I guess you are referring to me on this - I was not comparing us with anyone especially not them only pointing out why some teams are always low in the ratings ---

[ELCubano1]

" For the most part, the conference teams we are playing this year happen to be some of the worst teams in the FBS. UMass and ULM were pathetic losses and when you add how we barely beat Texas State and Idaho and struggled to beat Coastal,"

Do you even bother to look up info on any of these teams or do you just label them as sorry teams based on your judgment?

I'm not sure what you're looking at regarding the above-mentioned teams or why you think they are such great football teams. This weeks top 130 has Idaho at 118, UMass at 120, Texas St. at 124, Coastal at 127 and prior to playing us ULM was at 112. Texas St is currently 2-7 (1-4 conf), Idaho 3-6, (2-3), Coastal 1-8 (0-5), ULM 4-5 (4-3) AND UMass is 2-7. If you consider these teams are great because they came close to winning a certain game, then we definitely look at things totally different. Football or any sport is about winning, not almost winning. These teams represent some of the worst teams in ALL of FBS and have been so the entire year...Yes, I do look up the info and these teams are awful based on their respective records. There's nothing to sugar coat here...