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Two year drought...

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Re: Two year drought...

Unread post by RankinApp » Mon Mar 06, 2023 4:48 pm

CharlotteApp05 wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 3:41 pm
It is really disappointing to not have a soccer team now that our conference is a premier soccer conference.
This is the one that just bums me out to no end. A boneheaded decision.

Soccer is probably the fastest growing sport right now. The men's World Cup will be here in 2026. MLS is growing with new teams. I find myself watching more soccer than anything at the moment. Whether it's MLS, Premier League, the NWSL starting soon, the men's and women's national teams.

Not to mention App's team was historically pretty damn good and there are quite a few older guys here that would share stories of those days.
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Re: Two year drought...

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:14 pm

appst89 wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:53 pm
DenverOfTheEast wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:44 pm
App State isn't fully funded in all 16 sports -- so why would you think you can honestly be competitive in all 16 sports....Olympic sports don't all give out the full NCAA allotment of scholarships. (And if someone tells you different it's a lie) -- The higher ups like to disguise this with that in-state - out of state verbiage. Other schools don't care if your from Mars - you get what the NCAA allows.

This is not including the budgets in each sport are so embarrassing compared to other SBC schools.

Have some common sense -- freeze this thread.
If we field the sport then we should expect it to be competitive. If it isn't, and can't be properly funded then it shouldn't be fielded.
If we follow this logic we might need to drop to DII as we may not sponsor enough sports to remain DI.
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Re: Two year drought...

Unread post by hapapp » Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:20 pm

Stonewall wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 3:13 pm
Interesting that the SoCon configured a conference when they didn't have enough teams .Sunbelt did the same for soccer and beach volleyball , but not wrestling...
No other SBC program currently has wrestling. Little Rock does but, of course, they are no longer a conference member. At least several members of the SoCon actually have wrestling in addition to App, Davidson, Presbyterian, and Campbell.

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Re: Two year drought...

Unread post by appstate77 » Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:38 pm

Look at ACC men's basketball this year; when can you remember ALL of the big 4 finishing below the top 3 in the league?
It's not just App!
UNC Eric Church was preseason number 1. Now, unless they win the tourney, Carolina is NIT bait.
Blame the Portal, blame NIL, blame what you will. D1 sports are much more competitive.
Im proud of the Wrestling team. If they are currently our best then "good on them" as Sheriff Andy used to say. By no means am I counting out football. For App, culture and tradition, are foundation stones for gridiron football. We ve not gone anywhere. The Belt has caught up to us. Remember A State was urinated off when we started winning their championships. The same has happened again as JMU, MU and Troy have asserted themselves. The pendulum swings both ways. App is far from finished nationally, nor in the Belt.

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Re: Two year drought...

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Mon Mar 06, 2023 7:32 pm

hapapp wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:20 pm
Stonewall wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 3:13 pm
Interesting that the SoCon configured a conference when they didn't have enough teams .Sunbelt did the same for soccer and beach volleyball , but not wrestling...
No other SBC program currently has wrestling. Little Rock does but, of course, they are no longer a conference member. At least several members of the SoCon actually have wrestling in addition to App, Davidson, Presbyterian, and Campbell.
I don't see any conference forming a sport with only 1 school unless they can round up 5 other schools that are also the only school in their conference and those other schools needs to be somewhat close for travel costs to boot. As long as a few schools in the SoCon offer wrestling then the SoCon will offer wrestling and bring in a few other schools to fill out the minimum needed to have auto bids, which I think is 6 schools. The SoCon did move a sport to another conference that they sponsored for a year or two after we left and I bet it moved to a conference that had more schools than the SoCon had schools sponsoring that sport.
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Re: Two year drought...

Unread post by Stonewall » Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:14 pm

There were two at the time .They have two for beach volleyball.They could have,chose not to.Beach volleyball.

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Re: Two year drought...

Unread post by 311neers » Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:28 pm

BambooRdApp wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:33 pm
Just curious ...as l do not follow...how is Stink doing in other sports? I seem to remember that they were decent in baseball last year maybe.
Not sure how their funding levels compare to ours (individual club, corporate sponsors and how much is funded throughstate )
Maybe a large factor is money...and being able to pay market for coaches in other sports.
Very good baseball team. They can also recruit the state of Georgia and suburbs of Atlanta well. Baseball and basketball are uphill battles for us given location and environment but that’s not to say we can’t win, because we’ve done it before.

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Re: Two year drought...

Unread post by T-Dog » Mon Mar 06, 2023 10:50 pm

Volleyball and women's soccer bottomed out in 2021. With new coaches, both bounced back up and look promising.

Cross Country always finish very well at the conference meet.

Field Hockey made it to the MAC finals and had the best record of any team that didn't make the NCAAs. Sucks that Meghan left. Hopefully the new coach can keep up the success. They have a good facility that has been continuously updated in the last decade.

Wrestling is a Top 20 program and two time conference champ.

Women's Tennis caught lightning in a bottle a few years ago and won the conference, but the coach left. Also, they only have five outdoor campus courts right now. Hopefully the App 105 courts are done next season.

Men's and Women's Golf are what they are. Men's Golf got as high as 6th, but has had a revolving door of coaches. Honestly I'd rather have cut those sports than Men's Soccer due to lack of adequate facilities.

Men's and Women's Outdoor Track and Field have gotten the shaft big time from Athletics. No home facility for three years now. Thankfully it's almost done and they'll host a meet this spring. But between that and the coaching change, it hasn't been easy. Plus, the western Sun Belt programs are basically SEC programs.

Softball has grown under Coach Hoerner to winning records. Sun Belt Softball is almost a power conference, so that's a feat in itself, especially considering how bad it was for a few years.

I left out the most-discussed sports as those points have been made. But looking at each non-revenue sport individually, it seems many can be on the upswing or already are. But some are facing conference foes who are just so far ahead.

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Re: Two year drought...

Unread post by appst89 » Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:03 am

McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:14 pm
appst89 wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:53 pm
DenverOfTheEast wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:44 pm
App State isn't fully funded in all 16 sports -- so why would you think you can honestly be competitive in all 16 sports....Olympic sports don't all give out the full NCAA allotment of scholarships. (And if someone tells you different it's a lie) -- The higher ups like to disguise this with that in-state - out of state verbiage. Other schools don't care if your from Mars - you get what the NCAA allows.

This is not including the budgets in each sport are so embarrassing compared to other SBC schools.

Have some common sense -- freeze this thread.
If we field the sport then we should expect it to be competitive. If it isn't, and can't be properly funded then it shouldn't be fielded.
If we follow this logic we might need to drop to DII as we may not sponsor enough sports to remain DI.
If that's the case then that's where we should be. We shouldn't put a team on the field in any sport just to get a participation trophy. If we field the team, it should be properly funded and we should expect to compete for conference championships.

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Re: Two year drought...

Unread post by bigdaddyg » Tue Mar 07, 2023 7:02 am

How much did it cost (on average) for a soccer team? Aren't most games a bus ride? With the addition of Marshall, ODU and JMU I would think that soccer has gotten a boost in the Belt. I know very little but it seems like we could fill out a good schedule with many teams within a few hours from Boone.

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Re: Two year drought...

Unread post by pop5app » Tue Mar 07, 2023 7:06 am

Seems to me we’ve seen the playing field of college athletics shift. We have always been able to compete on our “shoestring” budget. I cannot see us being able to compete over the coming years. I think Covid just pushed us to this point much sooner. Cutting sports was the first shot. I think it will be harder and harder for us to
Compete at a high level going forward. Money, money, money.

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Re: Two year drought...

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:04 am

appst89 wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:03 am
McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:14 pm
appst89 wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:53 pm
DenverOfTheEast wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:44 pm
App State isn't fully funded in all 16 sports -- so why would you think you can honestly be competitive in all 16 sports....Olympic sports don't all give out the full NCAA allotment of scholarships. (And if someone tells you different it's a lie) -- The higher ups like to disguise this with that in-state - out of state verbiage. Other schools don't care if your from Mars - you get what the NCAA allows.

This is not including the budgets in each sport are so embarrassing compared to other SBC schools.

Have some common sense -- freeze this thread.
If we field the sport then we should expect it to be competitive. If it isn't, and can't be properly funded then it shouldn't be fielded.
If we follow this logic we might need to drop to DII as we may not sponsor enough sports to remain DI.
If that's the case then that's where we should be. We shouldn't put a team on the field in any sport just to get a participation trophy. If we field the team, it should be properly funded and we should expect to compete for conference championships.
Our infrastructure is also not a good fit for DII. A lot would change in Boone and on campus and in most peoples eyes it would be negative changes. I wish we were winning more but a school of 20000 should be DI or DIII and go non scholarship. App State itself is in a good position with Hickory opening and the university growing. That is not true for a few campuses in the UNC system. Check out UNCG for one.
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Re: Two year drought...

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:07 am

bigdaddyg wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 7:02 am
How much did it cost (on average) for a soccer team? Aren't most games a bus ride? With the addition of Marshall, ODU and JMU I would think that soccer has gotten a boost in the Belt. I know very little but it seems like we could fill out a good schedule with many teams within a few hours from Boone.
With salaries and travel and very little income I assume it was $500,000 min. But I am just guessing. Plus scholarships.
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Re: Two year drought...

Unread post by AppSt94 » Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:15 am

McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:07 am
bigdaddyg wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 7:02 am
How much did it cost (on average) for a soccer team? Aren't most games a bus ride? With the addition of Marshall, ODU and JMU I would think that soccer has gotten a boost in the Belt. I know very little but it seems like we could fill out a good schedule with many teams within a few hours from Boone.
With salaries and travel and very little income I assume it was $500,000 min. But I am just guessing. Plus scholarships.
Well that and the ancillary costs to other programs to meet Title IX requirements.

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Re: Two year drought...

Unread post by WVAPPeer » Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:30 am

appst89 wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:03 am
McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:14 pm
appst89 wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:53 pm
DenverOfTheEast wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:44 pm
App State isn't fully funded in all 16 sports -- so why would you think you can honestly be competitive in all 16 sports....Olympic sports don't all give out the full NCAA allotment of scholarships. (And if someone tells you different it's a lie) -- The higher ups like to disguise this with that in-state - out of state verbiage. Other schools don't care if your from Mars - you get what the NCAA allows.

This is not including the budgets in each sport are so embarrassing compared to other SBC schools.

Have some common sense -- freeze this thread.
If we field the sport then we should expect it to be competitive. If it isn't, and can't be properly funded then it shouldn't be fielded.
If we follow this logic we might need to drop to DII as we may not sponsor enough sports to remain DI.
If that's the case then that's where we should be. We shouldn't put a team on the field in any sport just to get a participation trophy. If we field the team, it should be properly funded and we should expect to compete for conference championships.
Unfortunately, this statement gets into how I'm characterized at times as "pie in the sky", etc., - This is not feasible in todays mega conferences especially those spread over a huge swath of the country. Some sports have built-in advantages delivered through their location. App is never going to be able to compete for conference championships in baseball, softball on anywhere near a reasonable basis. It is happening in all conferences not just the Sunbelt.
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Re: Two year drought...

Unread post by appst89 » Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:54 am

WVAPPeer wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:30 am
appst89 wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:03 am
McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:14 pm
appst89 wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:53 pm
DenverOfTheEast wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:44 pm
App State isn't fully funded in all 16 sports -- so why would you think you can honestly be competitive in all 16 sports....Olympic sports don't all give out the full NCAA allotment of scholarships. (And if someone tells you different it's a lie) -- The higher ups like to disguise this with that in-state - out of state verbiage. Other schools don't care if your from Mars - you get what the NCAA allows.

This is not including the budgets in each sport are so embarrassing compared to other SBC schools.

Have some common sense -- freeze this thread.
If we field the sport then we should expect it to be competitive. If it isn't, and can't be properly funded then it shouldn't be fielded.
If we follow this logic we might need to drop to DII as we may not sponsor enough sports to remain DI.
If that's the case then that's where we should be. We shouldn't put a team on the field in any sport just to get a participation trophy. If we field the team, it should be properly funded and we should expect to compete for conference championships.
Unfortunately, this statement gets into how I'm characterized at times as "pie in the sky", etc., - This is not feasible in todays mega conferences especially those spread over a huge swath of the country. Some sports have built-in advantages delivered through their location. App is never going to be able to compete for conference championships in baseball, softball on anywhere near a reasonable basis. It is happening in all conferences not just the Sunbelt.
If that's true, and I don't believe it is, then we shouldn't play that sport. We are not going to win every year, but if our expectation is not to compete for the title every single year then we shouldn't be playing that sport. I never took the field in anything I played thinking I was going to lose. If we are doing that now then we have bigger problems than what it seems.

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Re: Two year drought...

Unread post by AppSt94 » Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:06 am

We have to sponsor a certain number of sports to remain FBS Division 1. I believe that would be 14? If schools cut sports that they weren’t competitive in then there would be a lot less members.

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Re: Two year drought...

Unread post by WVAPPeer » Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:09 am

You are correct about that - I used to tell my team, "We take the field EXPECTING to win" and "our opponents take the field HOPING to win", we are already ahead - However, that didn't happen because I said so, it took several years of winning to establish that mindset.
Please explain why you don't think some schools have a built-in advantage because of their location - and why we should not field a team which can always be competitive? -
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Re: Two year drought...

Unread post by appst89 » Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:19 am

WVAPPeer wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:09 am
You are correct about that - I used to tell my team, "We take the field EXPECTING to win" and "our opponents take the field HOPING to win", we are already ahead - However, that didn't happen because I said so, it took several years of winning to establish that mindset.
Please explain why you don't think some schools have a built-in advantage because of their location - and why we should not field a team which can always be competitive? -
Well, I never said there aren't built-in advantages, so I really can't explain something I didn't say. And I'm not sure you're quoting me completely correctly. I said we should field the team with the expectation of competing annually. Some years we won't compete for the title, but those years should be the outliers. If we are putting a team on the field regularly that we don't expect to compete for titles then we are doing those kids and the school a terrible disservice.

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Re: Two year drought...

Unread post by appst89 » Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:19 am

AppSt94 wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:06 am
We have to sponsor a certain number of sports to remain FBS Division 1. I believe that would be 14? If schools cut sports that they weren’t competitive in then there would be a lot less members.
Maybe there should be.

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