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NCAA loses ability to control NIL in court

MrCraig
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Re: NCAA loses ability to control NIL in court

Unread post by MrCraig » Tue Feb 27, 2024 11:52 am

Mjohn1988 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2024 10:24 am
MrCraig wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2024 7:27 am
Mjohn1988 wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:43 pm
I really believe that interest in college sports will fall off and then ESPN will panic and try to fix the whole mess. By then it may be too late. It really is odd that the people making all the money off college sports don’t view this as an issue. NIL could work but a flat out uncontrolled free for all won’t work.
Why do you think interest in college sports would fall off? Popularity of collegiate athletics has only grown in the last 20 years, there are more kids playing more sports than just about any other time in our history, and pro sports are more popular than they've ever been. I don't know why college players making money would make people not want to watch sports anymore.
I could be completely wrong but my thought is that people who watch college sport may be put off by the money aspect. As an avid fan I love seeing teams grow together. Watching players develop. With players switching teams for money some of that aspect of the game will disappear. I also think some of the team/school loyalty will be seen as gone and I think that will sour some folks to the whole thing.
I think that could absolutely happen, but I think the percentage of college football fans that think that way is much, much smaller (and probably older) than you think.

Bigdaddyg1
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Re: NCAA loses ability to control NIL in court

Unread post by Bigdaddyg1 » Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:15 pm

MrCraig wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2024 11:50 am
Mjohn1988 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2024 11:35 am
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2024 10:36 am
You start to see those interviews with former college stars who are more open about the money they were paid. It's really hard to imagine 18-23 year olds being genuinely happy about teammates who are making 6 figures while they are all technically college students. Even at the big schools you've got to have massive divides in NIL money deals. What would be a so called minimum deal?
In regard to the locker room I think about the O lineman getting nothing or next to nothing and blocking for the QB making millions. How’s that going to work?
Hasn't this always been the problem? Bigdaddyg1 is pointing out how these deals have always happened, now it's at least ostensibly in exchange for using a player's name or face.
This is why NIL doesn't really bother me. It's always been around, it's just out in the open now. I DO think there should probably be some regulations, however. But I think the market might kind of regulate itself eventually.
In the pros you sometimes hear the story of the highly paid quarterback buying lavish gifts for his linemen. The blindside tackle usually makes more than the offside left guard. It's like any other business. The more valuable you are generally means more money. Are these stud quarterbacks in college going to bat for their teammates?

I guess the solution for the pay discrepancy is for a kid to not grow to 6'6" and 300 pounds and to become a lineman. Stay skinnier and learn to play quarterback. I jest. Just like running backs currently being devalued some positions will always be over valued. That's just the way it is.

Mjohn1988
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Re: NCAA loses ability to control NIL in court

Unread post by Mjohn1988 » Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:58 pm

MrCraig wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2024 11:50 am
Mjohn1988 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2024 11:35 am
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2024 10:36 am
You start to see those interviews with former college stars who are more open about the money they were paid. It's really hard to imagine 18-23 year olds being genuinely happy about teammates who are making 6 figures while they are all technically college students. Even at the big schools you've got to have massive divides in NIL money deals. What would be a so called minimum deal?
In regard to the locker room I think about the O lineman getting nothing or next to nothing and blocking for the QB making millions. How’s that going to work?
Hasn't this always been the problem? Bigdaddyg1 is pointing out how these deals have always happened, now it's at least ostensibly in exchange for using a player's name or face.
This is why NIL doesn't really bother me. It's always been around, it's just out in the open now. I DO think there should probably be some regulations, however. But I think the market might kind of regulate itself eventually.
I can’t argue that the issue of recognition and even money have been around but this makes it so much bigger. On principle I can’t disagree with NIL. I have been consistent in saying it can work but it has to have some regulation. The most successful sports franchise in the world, the NFL, realized very quickly that if they allowed unlimited money to be spent to buy teams the league would fail.

huskie3
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Re: NCAA loses ability to control NIL in court

Unread post by huskie3 » Tue Feb 27, 2024 9:57 pm

I recall both Chase and Joey saying they treated their OL to a meal.
Bring Your A Game!

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Re: NCAA loses ability to control NIL in court

Unread post by Bigdaddyg1 » Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:07 am

I thought the whole reason for and behind NIL was the 3 words in the title. If an athlete's name is used in a video game or on the back of a jersey or if he represents a company in a TV, radio or print ad he can receive money. How on earth are the collectives both legal and how do they fall under this umbrella? I have zero problem with these athletes being paid if they get regular endorsement deals but even most of them are shady. I've heard a radio ad locally for a heating and air company and the "spokesman" is Drake Maye. Does that company really need a college guy representing them? I wonder which luxury box they have at Keenan and in the Smith Center?

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Re: NCAA loses ability to control NIL in court

Unread post by Mjohn1988 » Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:55 am

Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:07 am
I thought the whole reason for and behind NIL was the 3 words in the title. If an athlete's name is used in a video game or on the back of a jersey or if he represents a company in a TV, radio or print ad he can receive money. How on earth are the collectives both legal and how do they fall under this umbrella? I have zero problem with these athletes being paid if they get regular endorsement deals but even most of them are shady. I've heard a radio ad locally for a heating and air company and the "spokesman" is Drake Maye. Does that company really need a college guy representing them? I wonder which luxury box they have at Keenan and in the Smith Center?
I’ll bet the vast majority of NIL payments won’t be for what we think of as actual endorsements. The only two I know about at App are for restaurants naming food items after players, Burger and Joey. My bet is the restaurants were just a way to funnel or launder money from the collective.

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Re: NCAA loses ability to control NIL in court

Unread post by 704App » Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:56 am

Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:07 am
I thought the whole reason for and behind NIL was the 3 words in the title. If an athlete's name is used in a video game or on the back of a jersey or if he represents a company in a TV, radio or print ad he can receive money. How on earth are the collectives both legal and how do they fall under this umbrella? I have zero problem with these athletes being paid if they get regular endorsement deals but even most of them are shady. I've heard a radio ad locally for a heating and air company and the "spokesman" is Drake Maye. Does that company really need a college guy representing them? I wonder which luxury box they have at Keenan and in the Smith Center?
I don't think anybody NEEDS Drake Maye. But I don't think it's unreasonable for wanting a big name in the state pushing your brand from a business stand point.

And, the student athletes should be able to do it and get paid.

But, they need to reign it in. I agree -- I don't see how the collectives are legal. The concept is cool, but I don't see how they manage it.

If as a small business owner I gave money to the collective, do I get to pick and choose which athlete endorses my brand? And to what level does each donation get an endorsement? Or does it depend on how much my small business can afford to give?

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Re: NCAA loses ability to control NIL in court

Unread post by Mjohn1988 » Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:56 am

Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:07 am
I thought the whole reason for and behind NIL was the 3 words in the title. If an athlete's name is used in a video game or on the back of a jersey or if he represents a company in a TV, radio or print ad he can receive money. How on earth are the collectives both legal and how do they fall under this umbrella? I have zero problem with these athletes being paid if they get regular endorsement deals but even most of them are shady. I've heard a radio ad locally for a heating and air company and the "spokesman" is Drake Maye. Does that company really need a college guy representing them? I wonder which luxury box they have at Keenan and in the Smith Center?
I’ll bet the vast majority of NIL payments won’t be for what we think of as actual endorsements. The only two I know about at App are for restaurants naming food items after players, Burger and Joey. My bet is the restaurants were just a way to funnel or launder money from the collective.

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Re: NCAA loses ability to control NIL in court

Unread post by AppinVA » Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:19 am

704App wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:56 am
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:07 am
I thought the whole reason for and behind NIL was the 3 words in the title. If an athlete's name is used in a video game or on the back of a jersey or if he represents a company in a TV, radio or print ad he can receive money. How on earth are the collectives both legal and how do they fall under this umbrella? I have zero problem with these athletes being paid if they get regular endorsement deals but even most of them are shady. I've heard a radio ad locally for a heating and air company and the "spokesman" is Drake Maye. Does that company really need a college guy representing them? I wonder which luxury box they have at Keenan and in the Smith Center?
I don't think anybody NEEDS Drake Maye. But I don't think it's unreasonable for wanting a big name in the state pushing your brand from a business stand point.

And, the student athletes should be able to do it and get paid.

But, they need to reign it in. I agree -- I don't see how the collectives are legal. The concept is cool, but I don't see how they manage it.

If as a small business owner I gave money to the collective, do I get to pick and choose which athlete endorses my brand? And to what level does each donation get an endorsement? Or does it depend on how much my small business can afford to give?
Is having him (or anyone who can be polarizing) as a spokesman a good idea? Because if I had a need for that service, I know who I am NOT going to call.
"Some people call me hillbilly. Some people call me mountain man. You can call me Appalachian. Appalachian's what I am."-- Del McCoury Band

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Re: NCAA loses ability to control NIL in court

Unread post by Bigdaddyg1 » Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:49 am

AppinVA wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:19 am
704App wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:56 am
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:07 am
I thought the whole reason for and behind NIL was the 3 words in the title. If an athlete's name is used in a video game or on the back of a jersey or if he represents a company in a TV, radio or print ad he can receive money. How on earth are the collectives both legal and how do they fall under this umbrella? I have zero problem with these athletes being paid if they get regular endorsement deals but even most of them are shady. I've heard a radio ad locally for a heating and air company and the "spokesman" is Drake Maye. Does that company really need a college guy representing them? I wonder which luxury box they have at Keenan and in the Smith Center?
I don't think anybody NEEDS Drake Maye. But I don't think it's unreasonable for wanting a big name in the state pushing your brand from a business stand point.

And, the student athletes should be able to do it and get paid.

But, they need to reign it in. I agree -- I don't see how the collectives are legal. The concept is cool, but I don't see how they manage it.

If as a small business owner I gave money to the collective, do I get to pick and choose which athlete endorses my brand? And to what level does each donation get an endorsement? Or does it depend on how much my small business can afford to give?
Is having him (or anyone who can be polarizing) as a spokesman a good idea? Because if I had a need for that service, I know who I am NOT going to call.
I didn't mean any of that as a slight to Maye. If some company wants to pay him to read some script then whatever. I just believe that one or more of these deals are going to explode soon. I've seen a few commercials with various players. There was one, I believe with some Kentucky basketball players. For one they were not even close to being polished actors and their role in the add made no sense. The Dr. Pepper commercials with Caleb Williams are funny to me and I think he does a pretty good job. I've said before that I think that if these young people want to simply be paid to play a sport they need to be (like many have suggested) employees of the university. No scholarship unless they earn an academic one. If they wish to take classes and can get accepted they pay their way. No more tutors either. How much does App pay each year for an 85 player football team- scholarships, academic support staff, etc? Would we come out ahead by paying each of them an average of $50-$100k a year?

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Re: NCAA loses ability to control NIL in court

Unread post by canes_mj » Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:36 am

2 really good recent podcasts on this on Yahoo sports cover this in depth. This isn't going to ruin college sports...but whatever impact it does have is secondary to the legality issues...what the NCAA was doing simply isn't legal. Courts have ruled against the NCAA model/restrictions/rules in every case. The arguments are ridiculous...amateurism was a concept invented BY the NCAA, and their argument in all these cases for why college athletes can't receive money is that it violates amateurism. And the second most common argument, we can't change the system/follow the law because it would mess up the sport. One of the Supreme Court cases was 9-0!! When does that happen, ever? The NCAA/big time college sports establishment are just going to have to change their model to one that's legal...and they're pissed, and thus all the doomsday end of the sport end of the world talk.

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Re: NCAA loses ability to control NIL in court

Unread post by hapapp » Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:58 pm

canes_mj wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:36 am
2 really good recent podcasts on this on Yahoo sports cover this in depth. This isn't going to ruin college sports...but whatever impact it does have is secondary to the legality issues...what the NCAA was doing simply isn't legal. Courts have ruled against the NCAA model/restrictions/rules in every case. The arguments are ridiculous...amateurism was a concept invented BY the NCAA, and their argument in all these cases for why college athletes can't receive money is that it violates amateurism. And the second most common argument, we can't change the system/follow the law because it would mess up the sport. One of the Supreme Court cases was 9-0!! When does that happen, ever? The NCAA/big time college sports establishment are just going to have to change their model to one that's legal...and they're pissed, and thus all the doomsday end of the sport end of the world talk.
30% of the time. Almost half the Court's cases are decided by either 9-0 or 8-1 decisions.

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Re: NCAA loses ability to control NIL in court

Unread post by VNova » Thu Feb 29, 2024 11:47 pm

hapapp wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:58 pm
canes_mj wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:36 am
2 really good recent podcasts on this on Yahoo sports cover this in depth. This isn't going to ruin college sports...but whatever impact it does have is secondary to the legality issues...what the NCAA was doing simply isn't legal. Courts have ruled against the NCAA model/restrictions/rules in every case. The arguments are ridiculous...amateurism was a concept invented BY the NCAA, and their argument in all these cases for why college athletes can't receive money is that it violates amateurism. And the second most common argument, we can't change the system/follow the law because it would mess up the sport. One of the Supreme Court cases was 9-0!! When does that happen, ever? The NCAA/big time college sports establishment are just going to have to change their model to one that's legal...and they're pissed, and thus all the doomsday end of the sport end of the world talk.
30% of the time. Almost half the Court's cases are decided by either 9-0 or 8-1 decisions.
Shows how cut and dry it was for them.

Turning college sports into a national television spectacle is really where it all went wrong if people want to blame something.

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Re: NCAA loses ability to control NIL in court

Unread post by Appst86 » Fri Mar 01, 2024 8:41 am

hapapp wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:58 pm
canes_mj wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:36 am
2 really good recent podcasts on this on Yahoo sports cover this in depth. This isn't going to ruin college sports...but whatever impact it does have is secondary to the legality issues...what the NCAA was doing simply isn't legal. Courts have ruled against the NCAA model/restrictions/rules in every case. The arguments are ridiculous...amateurism was a concept invented BY the NCAA, and their argument in all these cases for why college athletes can't receive money is that it violates amateurism. And the second most common argument, we can't change the system/follow the law because it would mess up the sport. One of the Supreme Court cases was 9-0!! When does that happen, ever? The NCAA/big time college sports establishment are just going to have to change their model to one that's legal...and they're pissed, and thus all the doomsday end of the sport end of the world talk.
30% of the time. Almost half the Court's cases are decided by either 9-0 or 8-1 decisions.
I think data is from 2022 or 2023, but it is clear the court is not as one-sided as we are led to believe. The hot-button social issues drive the news cycle (typically favoring one side). My sister crunched the numbers since you can’t find a concise rollup using a google search (wonder why?). Some recent facts about the SC. During the term, 50% of their decisions were unanimous, 89% of the decisions included one liberal judge on the majority decision and only 8% of the decisions were 6-3 along ideological lines. This court is absolutely legitimate. The legislative branch is our biggest problem.

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Re: NCAA loses ability to control NIL in court

Unread post by hapapp » Fri Mar 01, 2024 3:40 pm

Appst86 wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2024 8:41 am
hapapp wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:58 pm
canes_mj wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:36 am
2 really good recent podcasts on this on Yahoo sports cover this in depth. This isn't going to ruin college sports...but whatever impact it does have is secondary to the legality issues...what the NCAA was doing simply isn't legal. Courts have ruled against the NCAA model/restrictions/rules in every case. The arguments are ridiculous...amateurism was a concept invented BY the NCAA, and their argument in all these cases for why college athletes can't receive money is that it violates amateurism. And the second most common argument, we can't change the system/follow the law because it would mess up the sport. One of the Supreme Court cases was 9-0!! When does that happen, ever? The NCAA/big time college sports establishment are just going to have to change their model to one that's legal...and they're pissed, and thus all the doomsday end of the sport end of the world talk.
30% of the time. Almost half the Court's cases are decided by either 9-0 or 8-1 decisions.
I think data is from 2022 or 2023, but it is clear the court is not as one-sided as we are led to believe. The hot-button social issues drive the news cycle (typically favoring one side). My sister crunched the numbers since you can’t find a concise rollup using a google search (wonder why?). Some recent facts about the SC. During the term, 50% of their decisions were unanimous, 89% of the decisions included one liberal judge on the majority decision and only 8% of the decisions were 6-3 along ideological lines. This court is absolutely legitimate. The legislative branch is our biggest problem.
Good source: https://www.scotusblog.com/reference/stat-pack/

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