GaSo Meeting

[RankinApp]

Are you saying that IF the school fields a football team it must be D-1?

Yes, if a school plays Division I basketball the football program (if sponsored) must be DI as well. It's known as the Dayton Rule.

The ‘Dayton Rule’

Dayton has had a long and illustrious football history at the Division I level, including a stint in what is now the Mid-American Conference and a bowl game appearance. In 1977, however, Dayton dropped to Division III in football but kept the rest of its athletic programs in Division I, including its highly successful men’s basketball program.

Inadvertently, this made Dayton a Division III powerhouse. Once it abolished football scholarships it went 158-29-3 in Division III. From 1980 to 1992, Dayton qualified for the playoffs eight of 12 years, appearing in five Division III championship games and winning two. Although Dayton didn’t offer athletic scholarships, it could offer other items such as Division I training facilities and tickets to see Dayton basketball games.

“For instance, we had a 200-piece marching band,” former Dayton head football coach Mike Kelly told the Dayton (Ohio) Daily News. “There were some who thought that wasn’t what Division III was meant to be. My answer was I don’t remember any of our band members running for a touchdown.”

As a result of this dominance and these differences that made D-III schools uncomfortable, the “Dayton Rule” was born. Essentially, it prevented schools to do what Dayton and others had done: namely, host a nonscholarship football team at the Division III level while maintaining the rest of its athletics program as Division I.

Faced with being forced to play at the Division I level and unable to play in the Division III playoffs, the six schools in Dayton’s situation (Dayton, Valparaiso, Butler, Drake, Evansville and San Diego) bonded and formed the Pioneer Football League in 1992.

“The league was created by necessity,” said Ted Kissell, Dayton’s athletic director, to the Dayton Daily News. “It was without historical rivals, without tradition, but with essentially a common problem, as we wanted to continue to play this brand of football. The rug had been pulled out from under us, all of us. The challenge there is keeping the fans involved as much as recruiting players.”

http://ccsufans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=933

Now Dayton, and Davidson and plenty other FCS schools can sponsor football with zero to minimum scholarships (to the detriment of the subdivision, IMO) all while raking in the basketball money.

[kiddbrewer]

Now Dayton, and Davidson and plenty other FCS schools can sponsor football with zero to minimum scholarships (to the detriment of the subdivision, IMO) all while raking in the basketball money.

I agree. To me, offering NO scholarships in football is NOT D1 football.

[GoApps70]

That is why it is ridiculous for some of these schools to be Division 1 with no scholarships. However, I also think it is partly due to the Ivy League schools being on a needs only basis and them wanting to keep the Ivies Division 1. After all, historically Yale, Harvard and some schools have had exceptional football teams. Same basically allowing Army, Navy and Air Force to always be Division 1.

Believe the Division 1 requirement to play in the basketball tournament should just be removed and that any school would just have to declare if they are going to play to be in the basketball tournament, or just make everyone eligible.

[asumike83]

Now Dayton, and Davidson and plenty other FCS schools can sponsor football with zero to minimum scholarships (to the detriment of the subdivision, IMO) all while raking in the basketball money.

I agree. To me, offering NO scholarships in football is NOT D1 football.

One of the primary reasons that I hate Davidson right there. They have money coming out of their ears, pony up some cash for football scholarships and play in the SoCon or get off the damn field!

[appst89]

The NCAA has addressed the splitting a school's sports between divisions. To get NCAA tournament money (and an invitation) you must be D1 in all sports. They had too many schools going D1 BB just to get a cut of the money...

I'm confused about this. Are there not schools playing D1 b-ball that do not have football programs? Are you saying that IF the school fields a football team it must be D-1?

That is correct. If a school wishes to play D1 basketball and it has a football team, then football must also be classified as D1.

The NCAA has an exception for minor sports to play up, like Johns Hopkins is D1 in lacrosse only, but they won't allow it for revenue sports.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

The NCAA has addressed the splitting a school's sports between divisions. To get NCAA tournament money (and an invitation) you must be D1 in all sports. They had too many schools going D1 BB just to get a cut of the money...

I'm confused about this. Are there not schools playing D1 b-ball that do not have football programs? Are you saying that IF the school fields a football team it must be D-1?

That is correct. If a school wishes to play D1 basketball and it has a football team, then football must also be classified as D1.

The NCAA has an exception for minor sports to play up, like Johns Hopkins is D1 in lacrosse only, but they won't allow it for revenue sports.

I know the money is not there, but it would be interesting to see a financial reward for winning the Commish and Germann Cup. Enough money so that every school would want to either be all in for all SoCon sports or get out. ASU is the only school that offers all sports the SoCon sponsors (men and women) and we also add in Field Hockey. A few other schools offer non-SoCon sports but are a few sports short of offering all the SoCon offers. There are more schools that offer the full slate of women's sports, but fall short on the men's side.

[appsfan]

The NCAA has addressed the splitting a school's sports between divisions. To get NCAA tournament money (and an invitation) you must be D1 in all sports. They had too many schools going D1 BB just to get a cut of the money...

I'm confused about this. Are there not schools playing D1 b-ball that do not have football programs? Are you saying that IF the school fields a football team it must be D-1?

Yes.

[Watauga72]

Are you saying that IF the school fields a football team it must be D-1?

Yes, if a school plays Division I basketball the football program (if sponsored) must be DI as well. It's known as the Dayton Rule.

The ‘Dayton Rule’

Dayton has had a long and illustrious football history at the Division I level, including a stint in what is now the Mid-American Conference and a bowl game appearance. In 1977, however, Dayton dropped to Division III in football but kept the rest of its athletic programs in Division I, including its highly successful men’s basketball program.

Inadvertently, this made Dayton a Division III powerhouse. Once it abolished football scholarships it went 158-29-3 in Division III. From 1980 to 1992, Dayton qualified for the playoffs eight of 12 years, appearing in five Division III championship games and winning two. Although Dayton didn’t offer athletic scholarships, it could offer other items such as Division I training facilities and tickets to see Dayton basketball games.

“For instance, we had a 200-piece marching band,” former Dayton head football coach Mike Kelly told the Dayton (Ohio) Daily News. “There were some who thought that wasn’t what Division III was meant to be. My answer was I don’t remember any of our band members running for a touchdown.”

As a result of this dominance and these differences that made D-III schools uncomfortable, the “Dayton Rule” was born. Essentially, it prevented schools to do what Dayton and others had done: namely, host a nonscholarship football team at the Division III level while maintaining the rest of its athletics program as Division I.

Faced with being forced to play at the Division I level and unable to play in the Division III playoffs, the six schools in Dayton’s situation (Dayton, Valparaiso, Butler, Drake, Evansville and San Diego) bonded and formed the Pioneer Football League in 1992.

“The league was created by necessity,” said Ted Kissell, Dayton’s athletic director, to the Dayton Daily News. “It was without historical rivals, without tradition, but with essentially a common problem, as we wanted to continue to play this brand of football. The rug had been pulled out from under us, all of us. The challenge there is keeping the fans involved as much as recruiting players.”

http://ccsufans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=933

Now Dayton, and Davidson and plenty other FCS schools can sponsor football with zero to minimum scholarships (to the detriment of the subdivision, IMO) all while raking in the basketball money.

Thank you for the explanation!

[lknspider]

Have not looked at your board since football season but found this interesting topic about the Socon, Pioneer league and a few UR references. I may be wrong but I believe the Pioneer league gets an automatic bid to the FCS playoffs beginning in 2013....sounds disgusting. (Even though the playoffs are expanded, it makes no sense when excellent teams from Socon and CAA leagues will be left out and a non-scholarship team gets in...frustrating.)

As an old timer, I'd love to see the Spiders back in the Socon in football....not much chance but don't worry about their small stadium.....has been sold out (9K) every game for three years and UR ranks in top 30 endowments in the country...well over $2 billion. Basketball is their core sport and this board is correct...UR will not play in Socon. In fact, U of R is receiving substantial support among the Catholic 7 for their new league. Chances are that the Spiders will remain in the A10....even with a few departures, the league is and will be strong....this season with the addition of VCU and Butler, the league is 7th in RPI.....at present 10 teams from the A10 are in the top 89 RPI.

I enjoy following ASU in football and believe they should move to FBS. You are a much better fit than JMU (who likes to compare themselves to ASU) for the FBS.......... from a fan base, national reputation of your program and natural rivalry with.....southern and southwestern teams. JMU just wants to be FBS....period!! And talks about the MAC which would have no natural or geographic rivals. Playoff system is certainly the most attractive aspect of FCS.

Good luck to your FBS aspirations.....and......hopefully you get your BB program revved up!

[ASUMountaineer]

Have not looked at your board since football season but found this interesting topic about the Socon, Pioneer league and a few UR references. I may be wrong but I believe the Pioneer league gets an automatic bid to the FCS playoffs beginning in 2013....sounds disgusting. (Even though the playoffs are expanded, it makes no sense when excellent teams from Socon and CAA leagues will be left out and a non-scholarship team gets in...frustrating.)

As an old timer, I'd love to see the Spiders back in the Socon in football....not much chance but don't worry about their small stadium.....has been sold out (9K) every game for three years and UR ranks in top 30 endowments in the country...well over $2 billion. Basketball is their core sport and this board is correct...UR will not play in Socon. In fact, U of R is receiving substantial support among the Catholic 7 for their new league. Chances are that the Spiders will remain in the A10....even with a few departures, the league is and will be strong....this season with the addition of VCU and Butler, the league is 7th in RPI.....at present 10 teams from the A10 are in the top 89 RPI.

I enjoy following ASU in football and believe they should move to FBS. You are a much better fit than JMU (who likes to compare themselves to ASU) for the FBS.......... from a fan base, national reputation of your program and natural rivalry with.....southern and southwestern teams. JMU just wants to be FBS....period!! And talks about the MAC which would have no natural or geographic rivals. Playoff system is certainly the most attractive aspect of FCS.

Good luck to your FBS aspirations.....and......hopefully you get your BB program revved up!

Thanks...and, amen!

[AppAttack]

There is some interesting info on the front page of http://www.appstatenation.com/

Also hearing an appstate 'insider' on twitter has said that GaSo is getting a Sun Belt invite. I have no link, so take it for what it's worth. If WKU goes, we could be stuck since the Sun Belt would have 8 football playing members. If they stay, it makes sense that we would be the 10th. Who knows, we'll see.

[GlassOnion]

The "move" referenced in the email is probably GSU's AD moving his family to statesboro.

The map is interesting, but Ive seen 3 or 4 of those from Sun Belt members on their board. We already know the GSU AD has weekly contact with Benson. Still not much to go on.

[RankinApp]

There is some interesting info on the front page of http://www.appstatenation.com/

Meh.



GSU was supposedly getting the invite as soon as the playoffs were over. Much the same as App was supposedly getting an invite for the nearly all of 2012.

[AppStateNation]

haters gonna hate! haha

here's my next nugget, the list of candidates:
http://www.appstatenation.com/2013/02/0 ... andidates/

I've got lots of nuggets, no smoking guns.

[Dmanuhone]

Hope this does not piss anyone off at SB HQ.

[hapapp]

When you look at the schools on that list, you get the sense comparatively speaking that we are at a disadvantage in terms of revenue being generated by our athletic program. I realize that different schools rely on different methods (student fees, ticket sales, corporate sponsors, donors, etc.). However, we are spending less than half of what Liberty spends. Our basketball programs pale by comparison to many on that list. In some ways we compare more favorably to the existing SBC members than the prospective ones.

[GlassOnion]

Liberty is a mill. Tens of thousands of online students paying them money, with very little overhead. They've got a billion $ endowment too. Not exactly a fair comparison.

Cobb has already presented a financial plan that gets App to about $25 mill. without putting it on the backs of students. Some of those other schools have already tapped out their student fees in FCS.

Just checked, and 83% of JMU's budget comes from student fees, and theyre spending $34 million. App's is 50.1%. If we can get to $25 million with 30% less in fees, which the feasablity committee says we can, we'll be alright.

[MountainMan]

haters gonna hate! haha

here's my next nugget, the list of candidates:
http://www.appstatenation.com/2013/02/0 ... andidates/

I've got lots of nuggets, no smoking guns.

No hate or disrespect intended, but instead of "nuggets" I think I'd characterize them as "fool's gold".
There is simply nothing there.

[GoAppsGo92]

To folks that are underwhelmed by the AppStateNation story: you are officially in denial. While its not time to celebrate our official move to FBS, we can at least start to make a shopping list for food and decorations.

For Benson personally to send a map of the SBC with GAGA Southern and AppState on it says volumes. We are on the short, short, short list.

Subsequent emails pulled from the FOI request list members that could reveal a larger plan as the league considers additional members AFTER they take GAGA and AppState.

As for budgets and financial stregnth, I would put our peformance up against any existing SBC school and many of the new CUSA schools as well. Its not just about the big number at the top, its what you do with it, and how much you have left at the end. We do more with less than 90 percent of the schools out there, and our ticket sales and license revenues are quite simply outstanding for an FCS level school.

[GlassOnion]

I dont know what youre reading, but nothing thats been released is new. Benson sent a mostly personal email to the GSU AD. If theyre close enough to banter around about his kids and family, Im sure theyre close enough to banter around about expansion just as we do.

We know we are a candidate, we've known that for months. Still waiting for the beef. And btw, just because benson wants something to happen, doesnt mean it will happen, the SB presidents have the vote. He wanted to go to 12 schools last year, they stomped that plan.