App State to the Sun Belt

Yosef84 · Unread post by **Yosef84** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:40 am

Gonzo wrote:Oh I see. Senior moment.

OK...I resemble that remark, but in this case I'm going to have to say it was a JUNIOR moment.

Dmanuhone · Unread post by **Dmanuhone** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:51 am

Benson wants championship game, APP mention.

http://www.theadvertiser.com/article/20 ... e?gcheck=1

sixtoes9134 · Unread post by **sixtoes9134** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:47 pm

That's probably one of the better articles i've read on where the Sun Belt actually is and why their decision making process is probably moving more slowly than we want it to.

Sounds like Benson is having to do some selling, but quite frankly, I don't know why - if all this information is known to the SB presidents/chancellors you would think they would all be on board with getting to 12 FB and getting it over with.

T-Dog · Unread post by **T-Dog** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:49 pm

sixtoes9134 wrote:That's probably one of the better articles i've read on where the Sun Belt actually is and why their decision making process is probably moving more slowly than we want it to.

Sounds like Benson is having to do some selling, but quite frankly, I don't know why - if all this information is known to the SB presidents/chancellors you would think they would all be on board with getting to 12 FB and getting it over with.

The previous Sun Belt leadership has that sneering attitude toward FCS schools that some SB schools still share, particulary Lafayette. I remember when McNeese played us they talked about how much of an inferiority complex ULL has.

bcoach · Unread post by **bcoach** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:14 pm

Inferiotity toward FCS is hard to fight when our own fan base has jumped all over the fan blogs stating that FCS is JV. Maybe it would be better to be saying that we play a very high level of football and are striving to go even higher. I think many have sounded like they are ashamed of where we are, and if that is the case why should the members of the SB or any other conference want to welcome us. We should be very proud of our affiliation with the SOCON and where past members are today. We are NOT JV. We are division 1 and play a high level of football and if you want them to respect us then we need to respect us. Listen folks, it is no secret that I really wish we did not have to make the move. BUT we are going to make it so I have a message for the SB or any other conference in the 5. I chalange you to take us in and then let us show you that we do not have one single player who has EVER considered himself JV. WE ARE A TEAM OF DIVISION 1 PLAYERS AND WILL BE A POSITIVE TO YOUR STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE.

For those of you who want to keep up this JV crap, either walk into the locker room and and tell the players that you think they play JV ball or shut up, and grow up!

goapps93 · Unread post by **goapps93** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:21 pm

bcoach wrote:Inferiotity toward FCS is hard to fight when our own fan base has jumped all over the fan blogs stating that FCS is JV. Maybe it would be better to be saying that we play a very high level of football and are striving to go even higher. I think many have sounded like they are ashamed of where we are, and if that is the case why should the members of the SB or any other conference want to welcome us. We should be very proud of our affiliation with the SOCON and where past members are today. We are NOT JV. We are division 1 and play a high level of football and if you want them to respect us then we need to respect us. Listen folks, it is no secret that I really wish we did not have to make the move. BUT we are going to make it so I have a message for the SB or any other conference in the 5. I chalange you to take us in and then let us show you that we do not have one single player who has EVER considered himself JV. WE ARE A TEAM OF DIVISION 1 PLAYERS AND WILL BE A POSITIVE TO YOUR STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE.

For those of you who want to keep up this JV crap, either walk into the locker room and and tell the players that you think they play JV ball or shut up, and grow up!

The thing is is that we also view the FCS as inferior. That is why we are trying to leave it. There are only a handful of FCS teams that consistently play at our level and have the fan and financial support. The rest, well they are the JV to the FBS's Varsity and we want to be varsity. If the powers that be and those on Sun Belt message boards don't understand that then maybe the Sun Belt really isn't academically compatible with App State and we really should look elsewhere.

GoAppsGo92 · Unread post by **GoAppsGo92** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:30 pm

T-Dog wrote:
sixtoes9134 wrote:That's probably one of the better articles i've read on where the Sun Belt actually is and why their decision making process is probably moving more slowly than we want it to.

Sounds like Benson is having to do some selling, but quite frankly, I don't know why - if all this information is known to the SB presidents/chancellors you would think they would all be on board with getting to 12 FB and getting it over with.
The previous Sun Belt leadership has that sneering attitude toward FCS schools that some SB schools still share, particulary Lafayette. I remember when McNeese played us they talked about how much of an inferiority complex ULL has.

Reading this article has me walking away thinking that Sam Houston, JMU have to be given due consderation as football only members. It really appears Benson has the right vision for the conference, and I feel strongly that programs with winning traditions have the potential to do well in this new playoff structure. I have to say: should we invite those two, it wouldn't take long for the conference to compete for that spot. Having said that: two easy D-1 wins with NMSU and Idaho as FB only could make sense too. What is likely to happen is AppState, GSU, NMSU, and either JMU or Liberty... with the last two invites as football only.

Kgfish · Unread post by **Kgfish** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:51 am

goapps93 wrote:
bcoach wrote:Inferiotity toward FCS is hard to fight when our own fan base has jumped all over the fan blogs stating that FCS is JV. Maybe it would be better to be saying that we play a very high level of football and are striving to go even higher. I think many have sounded like they are ashamed of where we are, and if that is the case why should the members of the SB or any other conference want to welcome us. We should be very proud of our affiliation with the SOCON and where past members are today. We are NOT JV. We are division 1 and play a high level of football and if you want them to respect us then we need to respect us. Listen folks, it is no secret that I really wish we did not have to make the move. BUT we are going to make it so I have a message for the SB or any other conference in the 5. I chalange you to take us in and then let us show you that we do not have one single player who has EVER considered himself JV. WE ARE A TEAM OF DIVISION 1 PLAYERS AND WILL BE A POSITIVE TO YOUR STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE.

For those of you who want to keep up this JV crap, either walk into the locker room and and tell the players that you think they play JV ball or shut up, and grow up!
The thing is is that we also view the FCS as inferior. That is why we are trying to leave it. There are only a handful of FCS teams that consistently play at our level and have the fan and financial support. The rest, well they are the JV to the FBS's Varsity and we want to be varsity. If the powers that be and those on Sun Belt message boards don't understand that then maybe the Sun Belt really isn't academically compatible with App State and we really should look elsewhere.

Excellent point. While bcoach sees the JV reference as degrading our players and program, those who use it do so strictly as a statement to the status of FCS in the college football pecking order.

JTApps1 · Unread post by **JTApps1** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:30 am

bcoach wrote:Inferiotity toward FCS is hard to fight when our own fan base has jumped all over the fan blogs stating that FCS is JV. Maybe it would be better to be saying that we play a very high level of football and are striving to go even higher. I think many have sounded like they are ashamed of where we are, and if that is the case why should the members of the SB or any other conference want to welcome us. We should be very proud of our affiliation with the SOCON and where past members are today. We are NOT JV. We are division 1 and play a high level of football and if you want them to respect us then we need to respect us. Listen folks, it is no secret that I really wish we did not have to make the move. BUT we are going to make it so I have a message for the SB or any other conference in the 5. I chalange you to take us in and then let us show you that we do not have one single player who has EVER considered himself JV. WE ARE A TEAM OF DIVISION 1 PLAYERS AND WILL BE A POSITIVE TO YOUR STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE.

For those of you who want to keep up this JV crap, either walk into the locker room and and tell the players that you think they play JV ball or shut up, and grow up!

What if I believe we are a Varisty program stuck in a JV league? There are about 10-15 programs in FCS right now that would fit much better in FBS than FCS. After that it's all JV.

AppAttack · Unread post by **AppAttack** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:34 am

Guys, we don't have to be in the Sun Belt forever. It's just a way to get our foot in the door. We prove ourselves then move to another conference when there is no exit fee. It's a stepping stone conference. We have to get out of FCS -- anywhere!

I'd love for them to get to 12 football schools and a championship game. Assuming WKU is gone, that leaves them with 7. App and GSU make 9. Not crazy about Sam Houston, there are already a lot of Texas schools in the conference. Plus they only average what, 8K per home game? Really? Liberty doesn't excite any of us. JMU would be good, just don't see them leaving (for anywhere other than the MAC). NMSU is a basketball school. Let's not even discuss Idaho. I know geography doesn't really matter for football-only schools, but those two would bring the conference down. There have to be a few other options. At least get to 10 this year and go from there.

eggers76 · Unread post by **eggers76** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:24 am

Kgfish wrote:
goapps93 wrote:
bcoach wrote:Inferiotity toward FCS is hard to fight when our own fan base has jumped all over the fan blogs stating that FCS is JV. Maybe it would be better to be saying that we play a very high level of football and are striving to go even higher. I think many have sounded like they are ashamed of where we are, and if that is the case why should the members of the SB or any other conference want to welcome us. We should be very proud of our affiliation with the SOCON and where past members are today. We are NOT JV. We are division 1 and play a high level of football and if you want them to respect us then we need to respect us. Listen folks, it is no secret that I really wish we did not have to make the move. BUT we are going to make it so I have a message for the SB or any other conference in the 5. I chalange you to take us in and then let us show you that we do not have one single player who has EVER considered himself JV. WE ARE A TEAM OF DIVISION 1 PLAYERS AND WILL BE A POSITIVE TO YOUR STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE.

For those of you who want to keep up this JV crap, either walk into the locker room and and tell the players that you think they play JV ball or shut up, and grow up!
The thing is is that we also view the FCS as inferior. That is why we are trying to leave it. There are only a handful of FCS teams that consistently play at our level and have the fan and financial support. The rest, well they are the JV to the FBS's Varsity and we want to be varsity. If the powers that be and those on Sun Belt message boards don't understand that then maybe the Sun Belt really isn't academically compatible with App State and we really should look elsewhere.
Excellent point. While bcoach sees the JV reference as degrading our players and program, those who use it do so strictly as a statement to the status of FCS in the college football pecking order.

I am in favor of a move up and always have been, especially if the move is made in the best interests of the University, and I believe the powers that be have gone about the process in a good and deliberate way to make sure it is in the best interest of the University. I will never, ever be ashamed of where we are now and what we have acccomplished at our level, nor to me, do I consider it JV ball. Having said that, I personally believe that FCS is in some very dangerous waters and we need to find some good ground on which to establish our program. If it is in the SB, I say let's go for it. However let's be honest, this new FBS or Group of 5 or whatever they end up calling it, is still 2nd tier, even if it does provide us a way to sustain and grow our program, which is what I think most all of us really want.

appgrunt71 · Unread post by **appgrunt71** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:32 am

If we go Sun Belt, does that mean that App State would lose wrestling, one of its most storied programs?

hapapp · Unread post by **hapapp** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:50 am

I don't think a decision has been made on that front. Unfortunately, wrestling is a dying sport at the D1 level with only about 75 schools still sponsoring the sport. When I was at ASU in the late 60s and early 70s, wrestling was, along with baseball, our most successful men's sport.

AppDawg · Unread post by **AppDawg** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:01 am

[quote="AppAttack"]NMSU is a basketball school. Let's not even discuss Idaho. quote]

You hit the nail on the head right here! NMSU and Idaho bring nothing to the conference when it comes to football. In reading the Sun Belt board, this is a major bone of contention among some fanbase's & one of Bensen's key concerns. In the Go5 structure, conference strength of schedule means everything (of course you have to win a good # of those games). The highest rated conference receives the highest "playoff" payout. NMSU & Idaho have a history of very poor play and would be dead weight on the conference.

In my opinion, Georgia State brings nothing to the table (yet) from a football standpoint and is already going to be something the conference needs to overcome to improve its rankings witin the Go5. Why add NMSU & Idaho as football only to the mix - that would simply further complicate the Sun Belt's ability to maximize their earnings potential in the new structure. I also think this new structure, quite possibly in the near future, will generate equal or more revenue for conferences than the NCAA Basketball tournament.

To me the biggest question related to NMSU is, does their Baseketball success outweigh the negatives on the football side & travel costs for non-revenue sports?

GlassOnion · Unread post by **GlassOnion** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:12 am

This may be an important playoff appearence for NMSU. If they make a nice little run, it may just pressure the SB east just enough to include them. What happens if they choke game 1? More deadlock in the SB?

If they lay an egg, are we more likely to get JMU, cause Im all in for St Louis if thats the case.

Gonzo · Unread post by **Gonzo** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:21 am

If the disagreement comes when discussing the western schools, why not just go ahead and announce invites for App and GaSo? If/when NMSU gets voted in, have another presser.

Every day the announcement is delayed is a squandered recruiting advantage.

hapapp · Unread post by **hapapp** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:29 am

Leverage. If the schools wanting NMSU give into inviting ASU and Ga Southern, then they lose their leverage.

AppGrad78 · Unread post by **AppGrad78** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:39 am

Gonzo wrote:If the disagreement comes when discussing the western schools, why not just go ahead and announce invites for App and GaSo? If/when NMSU gets voted in, have another presser.

Every day the announcement is delayed is a squandered recruiting advantage.

The delay is really fairly simple. Once App and Georgia Southern are announced, the voting balance in the Sun Belt swings decidedly to the east. The western schools, while seemingly in favor of our additions, are holding up the vote to ensure that western schools are also added. Personally, the addition of New Mexico State will be a bad thing for App, especially if NMSU is added for all sports. We don't need to be in a conference spread over three time zones.

GlassOnion · Unread post by **GlassOnion** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:48 am

This is more FBS/FCS than location IMO.

There are FCS schools in and around the SB footprint that would be at least just as competative as NMSU athletically, probably more, and keep the footprint compact and travel cheap.

Moving the SB footprint east, would actually solidify the SB's future. There are many more possible additions east of the mississippi than the west. Moving east sets up future options. Moving west makes a few schools feel better, but does nothing for the future. The SE is football country. Higher population density, more money, this is where the SB needs to make its hay.

appgrunt71 · Unread post by **appgrunt71** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:59 am

hapapp, I attended App 1967-1971. In high school I participated in one of App State's wrestling camps. Sad to know that wrestling has diminished like that. To me I hope we can cling to the sport as long as we can. I wonder if we can wrestle out of conference? Even if we can, it's probably not feasible.

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